A340 of Iberia skids off runway in Quito

[Glonass]

Many links available ... here's one:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21714854/

[AN2 Driver]

Looks pretty bad, the plane is quite beaten up, possible write off?

http://www.elperiodico.cat/default.asp?idpublicacio_PK=46&idioma=CAT&idnoticia_PK=457454&idseccio_PK=1007

Pictures:
http://www.elperiodico.cat/info/galeriasv2/galeria.asp?idioma=CAS&idgaleria=969

Looking at these, both right engines seem to have torn from the wing or at least severely bent. Only one slide deployed, may suggest they only evacuated after a while, so that may explain why nobody was hurt (according to the sources).

Looking at the situation, they seem to have been quite lucky to stop where they did. There is quite a drop a few planelengts further on.

AN2 Driver.

[akerosid]

They're very lucky they stopped when they did. The fuselage doesn't seem to be damaged or bent at all; the No2 pylon is presumably repairable, so I would be surprised if it's a write-off.

UIO's altitude is about 9,000', hence a significantly higher landing speed - and a greater chance of tyrebursts.

[armchairpilot94116]

I am guessing write off. Wing may be bent. IMportant thing is that everyone is OK hopefully.

[TopBunk]

The number 1 engine looks at a strange angle too!

[Rainboe]

Write off? Write off? Do you chaps know what you are talking about? Please, unless you have some sort of engineering background, no more of this garbage 'armchair expert' guesswork! Nobody wants to hear non-expert opinions here!
Qantas 747 at BKK....repaired. AF 747 Tahiti (?)..... repaired. JAL DC8 ditched into Tokyo Bay...repaired. There is not much wrong with that aeroplane. The fuselage looks unstressed, the undercarriage still appears to be intact. Wing repairs, change flaps & 2 engines, change undercarriage bits, run engines and off she goes!

[Parapunter]

Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry?

[flt_lt_w_mitty]

Absolutely - it is fine! Those engines are just swivelled to help steer towards the lake. It is a new AB mod. 747 has had it for years. A quick hose down and off she goes. Built like a brick-built john, those AB s are.:ok:

[malagajohn]

Here's a link to some more photos

http://www.elperiodico.cat/info/galeriasv2/galeria.asp?idioma=CAS&idgaleria=969

[Rainboe]

Mitty's back. Down Boy!

Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry?

Not angry at all . Exasperated. Exasperated with people who come here and pretend to be experts, spouting out things they have no idea of. This is an eminently repairable aeroplane. Anybody who knows flying knows that even a wheels up can be repaired quite happily. I remember even a Korean 747 that got blown backwards down a long slope, and lost its undercarriage was recovered and repaired.

[operationsair]

He has obviously forgotten the true meaning behind these boards...

[Joetom]

Rainboe,

Of interest, QF 744 at BKK was a write off in insurance terms, QF just paid for repairs to avoid the term hull loss on the books, am sure they they are not alone in doing this.

This 340 looks like a cheap fix from the pics, but you never know???

[operationsair]

Looking at the pictures, how can anyone give a true visual inspection?

There could be any underling stress damage and or twisted frames etc.

Wait for the investigation.

[Nepotisim]

Of interest, QF 744 at BKK was a write off in insurance terms, QF just paid for repairs to avoid the term hull loss on the books, am sure they they are not alone in doing this.

Thats just a cr@p rumour.

Quicker to fix aero than write it off and wait for Mr Boeing to build one.:)

[ManaAdaSystem]

How many hours did it take to evacuate this aircraft???? The evacuation started in daylight and continued into the night?:eek:
Rainboe is the acting PPRUNE police. Every forum got one.
Edit: It seems they never did evacuate. They didn't burn to death, so it worked out OK. I know what I would have done, though.

[babemagnet]

Here is another clear picture a lot off damage if you ask me!


http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6104979

[alexmcfire]

I say it´s a write-off, limited space in Quito to patch this bird up.
More rumors, female pilot (as with SAA incident) and that IB had burst tires on an (initial report of reason for the accident) A346 on 30th of august 2007.

[flatfootsam]

Nobody wants to hear non-expert opinions here!

[QUOTE]There is not much wrong with that aeroplane. The fuselage looks unstressed, the undercarriage still appears to be intact.../QUOTE]

"The fuselage looks unstressed" - how do you figure that out?

Nobody wants to have to read that sort of castigation followed by an uniformed opinion, it's just irritating; and yes I'm an aeronautical engineering expert, at least that what it's says on my PhD...even my former well known employers agreed to a certain extent on that

All aeroplanes are repairable and it has little to do with the engineering consensus; it all up the insurers in the end.

[OsPi]

Quote from the Jetphotos.net photographer:

The airplane landed at 17:15 with light rain and wet RWY. According to people who saw the airplane land, the aircraft it skid out of control, and over shot the RWY into the grass area. As it hit the grass one of the main landing gears tore off, the aircraft sank into the grass hitting part of the underground tunnel structure, ripping and blowing up other tires making the plane stop. Then engines 1 and 2 hit the ground causing them to rip off the wing. Certainly a terrible incident, thankfully no fatalities! Airport will be closed for about 1 day.

[Busbert]

I wouldn't be surprised if the LH MLG has collapsed or been torn from the gear rib.

I would say that they will need a full set of gear (~USD 10m) a pair of engines, nacelles and pylons ($50m+ at spares price), and about 2 months in a hangar, 3 months if the gear rib needs to be replaced, as it never has been done on an A346 before.
I would think that Iberia would be quite happy to have it written off, lets face it the A346 is not exactly Queen of the Sky, and I have a feeling that they are worth more as a financial write-off than an airframe.

[antic81]

I'm with Operationsair on this one, none of us are really qualified to say its a write off or not, firstly, all we have to look at is pictures, secondly, I would say that most people who have posted so far are not qualified Aircraft Engineers and thirdly the aircraft is still to be inspected analyzed by said pro's...then I would gather it all comes down to Iberia/the insurance company.

From the pictures, it looks like they are very lucky to have come to a halt where they did though, looks like a nasty drop just ahead of them.

Also, perhaps it was a female pilot, but as we don't know all the facts right now I don't see what difference that makes?

[Busbert]

Having seen the photos on airdisaster.com, I would be most surprised if this aircraft flies again.
The LH MLG was torn off, the CLG is buried up to the top of the wheels, and more critically it looks like the LH keel beam has been tortured. That is bonded monolitic carbon so *not terribly repairable*
Whether this puppy flies again will hinge on the condition of the wing skins and the spars, and the facilities available in Quito.

[Random Electron]

Write-off? Never.

Perhaps Iberia should ask Qantas to fix it, they seem to be able to get write-offs flying again.

From the photographs, this aircraft seems to be about as badly damaged as the Qantas B747 at Bangkok a few years ago.

[BOAC]

Rainboe. is there a reason why you're permanently angry?
Not angry at all . Exasperated. Exasperated with people who come here and pretend to be experts
ex·as·per·ate (http://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/ibreve.gifg-zhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/abreve.gifshttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/prime.gifphttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/schwa.gif-rhttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/amacr.gifthttp://img.tfd.com/hm/GIF/lprime.gif)
tr.v. ex·as·per·at·ed, ex·as·per·at·ing, ex·as·per·ates 1. To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly

.......nuff said?

Meanwhile chaps - back at the accident?

[ARINC]

A340 Quito

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CChzaDxxSJw

Interesting parking procedure...Looks quite tight

[Rainboe]

What are they talking about? There will be an engineering team out there today, assessing damage and sorting out an initial shopping list. Odds of getting back in the air- 95%....in 3 months? Engineers themselves are not good judges- look at the way car mechanics make that sucking in sound through the teeth and shake their heads, as if it is terminal....and all you need is your timing belt changed!

Busbert- for an education, you should look up the pictures of the Qantas 747. Worse than this.

Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly!
(for the benefit of Moderators with little patience!)

[anartificialhorizon]

Rainboe,

Thankyou for your interesting comments.

After looking at the pictures and applying my previous experience in such matters, I am of the technical opinion that it is f***ed.

2 engines poss write offs , other 2 engines for shop strip , 2 pylons, 4 gears , fuselage (visible damage) plus unknown damage......

$40M before you even start to think about how you are going to repair it(portable hangers etc) at Quito. Will be written off and sold for salvage (prob worth $10m ++ a good deal for the Airline and the Insurers)

Will buy you pint if I'm wrong !!!

:ok:

[The Otter's Pocket]

Okay
Thats it I am bored of the petty squabbling.
I am willing to take odds on this 4-1ON for Rainboe will sort out the other odds later.
Otherwise for a bit of fun, Mods could we have a poll then we can see if it flies again who has egg on their faces. Also with the poll could we please name who has taken what vote.

[BOAC]

You are having a giraffe are you not? Danny kindly passed this thread to PPP and me so the willy-waving can continue unabated, and also I am afraid we are not licensed for gambling here.

[akerosid]

Duplicated on R&N


Irrelevant

As can be seen from other photos, the acft is at quite an angle and on soft ground; I'm no expert on recovery and the various thingies you need to recover a large airliner, but it occurs to me that it will be extremely difficult to move this machine without exacerbating the damage. No doubt Airbus will be assisting and can advise on lift points for aircraft like this.

(Another factor could be the fact that the type of lifting gear required may not be available in Quito and the only way you can bring it in is by air ... and the airport is closed - Catch 22?)

[alexmcfire]

Any mil helos in the area? Any Mil-26? Peru, Venezuela got them.

[armchairpilot94116]

The pictures seem to show a lot of real damage, fair to say. It could be possible to repair it if they really want to throw enough money at it (and time) . But it all boils down to money needed and value. A340 has lost the race to 777 by leaps and bounds in the marketplace. And residual values for operable aircraft are quite low. I understand huge discounts are there for the asking on both new and preowned. It may simply not be worth it to repair .

[alexmcfire]

Latest speculation is that it´ll be cut up, too risky to move it anywhere.
Airport seem to be open again, 200meter less runway, so access is a bit restricted.

[Tediek]

Well I guess they can do a lot to a damaged bird, it's probably depending what the airline and the insurance co's are opting.

see this LH 747, was also looking awfull but still flies.

http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/d-abyu/photo.shtml

[transilvana]

On any other main airport the aircraft could be saved and repaired, not in Quito, those who have been there know the airport, no space, no hangars, no cranes. The aircraft as far as I know would not be repaired.

[satpak77]

Curious how many hours they had flown after landing. Fatigue, etc issues

(not that fatigue caused it, but being fresh and evac-ing is different than evac-ing after having flown XXX hours from Europe)

[AN2 Driver]

Hi Rainboe,

if it was me that caused you to become Ex-as-per-at-ed-To make very angry or impatient; annoy greatly! then humble apologies. I put a question mark behind my statement for good reason. Even tough I am in the industry for now 20 odd years, I'd not dream of suggesting that nor being an expert in engineering, I just put it there as a question. Looking at these http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=16394278&postcount=515 pics however seem to tell me that there is a lot broken with the aircraft and, as others have pointed out here, moving it might break some more.

I do recall an incident where an A319 went astray during a taxi test at Munich and had an unpleasant encounter with a Dash 8 in the process, resulting in spar damage amongst other bent metal and composite. It took the experts from Airbus and the airline several weeks to decide wether to fix it or to part it out, in the end they did fix it but it took pretty long. Likewise with a brand new 737 which ended up in a hailshower, they called it a write off when it first entered the hangar, and financially it was, but they fixed it.

I understood however that other aircraft, which were much less damaged, ended up on the heap.

So if I have annoyed anyone, sorry. It was and is my perception however that we are an aviation forum and as such, asking questions along these lines should still be allowed...

AN2.

[Whitehatter]

Lots of factors involved which we can only guess at. Such as sourcing parts which might be nonstandard (BMI A330....? Same thing) or have longish lead times as they are major lumps of aircraft.

The airline and insurers won't like to write it off though, as it causes a ripple throughout the stats which bedevil airlines these days. Such as safety records and hull losses. We have seen worse than this patched up good as new before now. I'm just glad people got off it OK as that's more important than anything.:ok:

[20driver]

Rainboe, I don't get it. First you say the engineers are going to assess it and figure out what is needed to repair it. Then you say the engineers are bad judges to be doing this sort of thing.
So who is going to decide if it can be repaired, the pilots? You bend it, you fix sort of deal?
You might want to note that unlike pilots and car mechanics, engineers meet the standard definitions of a profession.

20driver

(And yes I am both a pilot and an engineer, sadly not a car mechanic)

[barit1]

The engineers will probably say it is repairable, but the beancounters will determine if it's beyond economical repair - that it whether its market value is greater or less than the cost to repair.

The other consideration is - what's it's scrap value? Airbus may want to do engineering evaluation of the wing. The two starboard engines alone may bring enough value to consider turning the hulk over to agricultural interests in Equador. :}

[GotTheTshirt]

Rainboe,

First as the point has been made repair is an insurance issue, not technical, the numbers of which you have no idea.:)

Second the instances you gave are very interesting in that they are old brick built aircraft.

Perhaps you have some later examples of major repairs to modern aircraft that have been salvaged like the Toronto airbus ;)

:8They dont make um like they used to:}

[alexmcfire]

Latest rumor is that Iberia is banned from Ecuador until they sort out the
A346 accident.

Hoping that Danny will not have a hissy fit with this, Alex, but I have copied this interesting post to the R&N thread. Thanks.

[Rainboe]

Chaps, you're all so touchy! Any perceived insult to an engineer is jumped on, but it's OK for engineers to make insulting references to pilots? OK, we'll let it pass!
Engineers won't decide if it is repaired. they will report- the decision will come from MAD-'get your wheel jacks and crosshead screwdrivers out and get on with it!', or:' paint Iberia out on the fin and get the chainsaws out quick!'
As for repairability, look how Qantas mullahed this 747 at BKK (now happily flying paying guests around):
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/8.shtml
http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/7.shtml
It will be interesting to see what problems modern plastic aeroplanes experience, however exactly how revolutionary is the 340-600? It still has a standard duralamin fuselage doesn't it? I still get the impression the 747 is worse than this 340 in that the 340 only has superficial damage.

[armchairpilot94116]

My amateur eyes tell me this A340 has more then superficial damage . But if they can fix that Qantas jet, they certainly could fix this airbus. Problem is if they really want to spend that much money. The fix is likely nearly as much as buying a nice serviceable used one maybe?

[Rainboe]

The fix is likely nearly as much as buying a nice serviceable used one maybe?
Look- you do keep making assertions that make me shudder. You are a complete amateur and have no qulaifications to make any such statements! You don't know what you are talking about!
Hulls are very valuable at the moment- delivery lines are long. Repairs are possible on quite badly damaged hulls. It makes the investment in a repair more worthwhile. Let's see instead of stabbing in the dark. I think on balance it's a goer. I would not dream of making statements such as yours. Please remember your only qualification here is to fly MS Flightsim!

[armchairpilot94116]

And please remember this IS the spotter forum . I bet you five bucks this bird aint gonna fly again. :)

NO pot of gold at the end of this rainbow

And just to let you know, I dont even fly the microsoft SIM. So you are wrong on that.

[AN2 Driver]

And just to let you know, I dont even fly the microsoft SIM. So you are wrong on that.

:} Yet I know quite a few airline pilots who do ;)

[armchairpilot94116]

I understand that as of June 2007 there is a backlog of 292 Airbus A330 of all types but only 46 Airbus A340 of all types. This as opposed to a backlog of 334 for all types of the 777 (as of October 2007). Sure looks like they could squeeze in your order of an Airbus A340 if you give Airbus a call? Even if the line is kept busy making A330.

Outstanding order backlog as of June 2007:

A330-200 = 148
A330-200F = 64
A330-300 = 80

A340-300 = 9
A340-500 = 6
A340-600 = 31

777 total orders as of Oct. 2007 = 1006
777 total deliveries as of Oct. 2007 = 672

A340 orders ,all types as of March 2007 = 405
A340 delivered , as of March 2007 = 342

You might be able to get Mr. Hazy to find an A340 for you, either underutilized or right off the assembly line (deferring another order). Who knows?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_777
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Airbus_A340
http://ww.airliners.net:80/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3495999/

[GotTheTshirt]

Rainboe
WoW who's touchy !!

I know you think we are all idiots but just how many Airbus spare parts have you bought recently:)
They are not cheap believe me.

In the old days manufacturers wanted aircraft repaired now they don't.

You did not give many Airbus examples in you repair of write off lists;)

[Rainboe]

Let's just wait and see! Without making any statements that go over the top. I have seen aeroplanes in an apparently worse condition get flying again. The old ANC repair of a 747 was very impressive. Blown off a raised icy taxiway and weathercocking into the teeth of the gale, it slid backwards down a 70 foot high slope, losing gear and engines (running) on the way down, and I think breaking it's back when it hit the horizontal. The story of the recovery is interesting, they had to build a road through Alaskan bush to get to it. Don't know how they got it back up, but it flew again. Yet contrast that with a simple repair to a pressure hull that failed and caused the JAL accident. The carbon fibre panels that came off this are nothing. The fuselage seems undamaged. Wing replacement, 2 new engines, new gear, a few ribs replaced and it may well be the insurance company that demands, whether it is worth it or not, that a repair takes place. It's still a damn good aeroplane, if not matching the 777 in seat mile costs.

[armchairpilot94116]

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19941022-1

This one was written off. Maybe it was because it was 15 years old?

[alexmcfire]

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: European Union
Posts: 153 Latest rumor is that Iberia is banned from Ecuador until they sort out the
A346 accident.

Hoping that Danny will not have a hissy fit with this, Alex, but I have copied this interesting post to the R&N thread. Thanks
[Quote]
Who are you?

[alexmcfire]

This poster claim it was a crew mistake, http://www.airdisaster.com/forums/showpost.php?p=525073&postcount=60
Anyways seem to be a video out of the landing, anyone seen it?

[MrNosy2]

IB A340 repair at Quito - expensive but its early days yet and we shall have to wait and see what decisions are made.

Picking up on some of the other comments on this thread:-

Joetom - QF 747 at BKK was not an insurance CTL - cost of repairs was well below aircraft's insurance agreed value.

Armchairpilot94116 - Thai A300 was not a write off. Thai made commercial decision to take cash-in-lieu of repairs. Aircraft was certainly repairable within insurance agreed value.

[not the office jnr]

have heard that new landing gears and other spares are being sent out to Quito ASAP. looks like they'll be trying to fix it (at least partially so they can move it) than chop it up and move it.

[alexmcfire]

Another rumor is that it didn´t work out to lift it with inflatable airbags?
Any more photos of the plane?

[WebPilot]

The aircraft was on jacks in a maintenance area of the airport last Friday. Didn't get a chance to take any shots unfortunately.

[Tediek]

here you find a recovery movie on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/v/u7AnV24-RLQ&rel=1&border=0 (http://www.youtube.com/v/u7AnV24-RLQ&rel=1&border=0)

[anartificialhorizon]

Heard on the jungle vines that the IB 340 will NOT be repaired.

Looks like you owe me a pint Rainboe :}

Anyone heard the same ?

[akerosid]

Yes, it was declared a write-off some time ago; acft - or what's left of it - is parked at the military ramp at UIO.

[Newforest2]

"Looks like you owe me a pint Rainboe"

Probably why Rainboe did a runner!

[The late XV105]

Browsing through some of the other photos from the accident referred to in post #43, I loved this one!

AirDisaster.Com: Accident Photo: Qantas QF1 (3) (http://www.airdisaster.com/photos/qf1/3.shtml)

Not quite what the CC had in mind, I am sure.

[Rainboe]

I took no bets! Never gamble- fools game. Not even a lottery ticket.

My superficial opinion was it was repairable- I think it accepted the Qantas 747 was equally or worse damaged and is flying now. Frankly I'm surprised it allegedly has been written off- I'm sure Airbus would have preferred a repair to avoid their production safety figures looking bad for the A340. All the same, a sad end to a fine aeroplane, but with the recent fuel price shock, probably a relief to be rid of it.