Lest we forget.

[Al R]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7040801.stm (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7040801.stm)

What a beautiful place. No ranks, no medals, no badges.. just names.

.. they went with songs to the battle, they were young,
Straight of limb, true of eye, steady and aglow.
They were staunch to the end against odds uncounted;
They fell with their faces to the foe.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years contemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.

They mingle not with their laughing comrades again;
They sit no more at familiar tables of home;
They have no lot in our labour of the day-time;
They sleep beyond England's foam.

But where our desires are and our hopes profound,
Felt as a well-spring that is hidden from sight,
To the innermost heart of their own land they are known
As the stars are known to the Night;

As the stars that shall be bright when we are dust,
Moving in marches upon the heavenly plain;
As the stars that are starry in the time of our darkness,
To the end, to the end, they remain.

For the Fallen, Laurence Binyon.

Jusr read it again. How utterly sad and hopeless I feel, that there is a need for space for 15,000 more names.

[MostlyHarmless]

How utterly sad and hopeless I feel, that there is a need for space for 15,000 more names.
Agreed. I know what I want to add but can't seem articulate it right now...
:(

[autothrottle]

This callsign agrees. Pity some do forget in Westminster.

[PTT]

Perhaps that space will lead a few people to think a bit. Here's hoping...

[PICKS135]

All future [and Current ] Prime Misters and MP's should be made to spend a day there, reading the names. At the end of the day they should then be asked,

DO YOU WANT YOUR DECISIONS TO ADD MORE NAMES TO THE LIST ???

[Utrinque Apparatus]

Oh come on lads - and lasses -, do you really think the Blairs and Browns of this world would give a flying f**k if the names were tattooed on their arses ?

At least we remember them, faces, families, mannerisms, sense of humour par excellence, dour buggers, winners, not such great winners, misers (oh yes, many of those gits !), ill fitting civvies, daft haircuts, poorly spelt tattoos, the weirdest tastes in music, rough diamonds, smooth bastards you wouldn't introduce to your gran - salt of the earth, the bloody lot of them.;)

[Navy_Adversary]

Was there a flypast for the service today?

The reason I ask is that I was doing some work just south of Leicester around 1320 hrs today when I heard a powerful jet noise.
First was a Nimrod followed at approx 1 minute intervals by a GR4,F3, Typhoon and a Harrier which was a bit further south east.
I guess the aircraft were at about 500 ft with the Nimrod having a job to stay visual with the ground, speed I guess around 300 knots.

I have seen many aircraft flying low level over the years south of Leicester but this was a first with a Nimrod, I immediately thought of the service in Staffordshire.:D

[Chris Kebab]

Does anybody know if the names are on-line anywhere?

[Sospan]

You can search the roll of honour here (http://www.forcesmemorial.org.uk/roll-of-honour.asp)

[Fargoo]

At the going down of the sun and in the morning - We will remember them.

Database to search for names is on the website.

http://www.forcesmemorial.org.uk/index.asp

Fargoo :(

[Shack37]

Bless em all. Is it too much to hope that the remaining space stays blank?
s37

[DaveyBoy]

Navy_Adversary: Yes there was, and your guess as speed wasn't that far off: we were all at 240kts groundspeed and yes, the vis was a bit difficult from inside the Nimrod!

[Al R]

When I reread that piece this morning, and I experienced a really sickening feeling. Here we were, somewhere in leafy England, remembering and glorifying our dead and expecting and justifying the deaths of another 60 years of Britain’s finest, and I got to thinking. We donate more to animal charity than we do old people’s charity and we opened the memorial to animals killed in war, in Park Lane, a few years back. Without a second thought, we turf folk out of their homes to make way for Livingstone’s folly at the cost of billions to our own people, yet we put a stop on the work when some latte sipping hemp underpant wearing prat shrieks that he’s found a Great Crested Newt breeding where the long jump is going to be. Politicians don’t care (you only have to wade through the defence procurement debate to realise that folks).. people don’t care. We can be mitigated as a ‘justifiable loss’.

‘No justice, just us’.

[theotherhalf]

It is very difficult to justify anything felt in the face of such an emotive memorial. If we don't remember them, then they are expendable, unwanted, uncared for, forgotten. If they are remembered, then it is noted with cynicism, and a feeling of resentment and inner fury that it takes such a selfless act of sacrifice to get anyone to do anything at all. In fact, all of our men and women are aware of the risks, and I for one get confused with the comments that sometimes appear on other threads, of almost childish glee, that more are coming out of the services.
So what is the answer, only join and fight the conflicts you want to, or join and fight the wars you are sent to, or protest at everthing, join and leave in a hurry or join, serve like a hero despite the powers that be, defend this country and if the very worst happend be remembered by just such a memorial.
Until this planet learns to live in peace - something that will never happen - this sort of situation will continue and the same choices have to be continually made.
So how do I feel - immensly proud of the man who gave all in order to work with colleagues he respected and honoured, to be one of them and die with them. I don't care about politicians or people with self opinionated views of what is right and wrong. All I care about is that I lost him- forever - and I will never ever see him again and if his name is carved in stone, it is also carved in my heart and nothing and no-one can eradicate it from either.
So if there is room for more names on this memorial then that can be construed either way, a determination to revere those who will continue to give the ultimate or hedging your bets and making sure no gets left out therefore making sure enough room is there.
I know which way I will prefer to look at it because I look at all the uniforms and all I see are men and women better, and braver and more courgeous than me, willing to go out do a job of work against all odds.
God Bless you all. I hope you never end up on that Memorial but I am so unbelievably proud that the man I love so much is there, even though that means he will never again be with me.

[Al R]

Spoken as only someone who has suffered such a loss can speak.

I just feel sad beyond belief that we have already resolved to set aside more space for more men and women, most of whom may not have even been born yet. My malaise is more philosophical, than political. If we were animals, I wonder how the way we treat our own would be viewed.

I hope all is well.

Sincerely,

Al.

[C130 Techie]

we have already resolved to set aside more space for more men and women, most of whom may not have even been born yet

A profoundly sad thought I agree but i feel it is unfortunately inevitable in light of the situation our planet is in.

[SOTV]

The Other Half.

Thank you for that. It made me very sad, humble and also proud. Before this memorial I had to rely on the service of rememberance and attendance at the annual parade at my local war memorial and of course my memories. Now there is somewhere I can go to see my oppos names and place tokens of my respect.

[Samuel]

I visited Alrewas last year while in the UK.

For those that haven't been, it is a stunning concept, and in twenty years or so when the 12,000 trees that have been planted grow a bit, it will be even more of a haven.

I found it a very moving experience just to walk around all those memorials, and especially the short stretch of the railway recovered from that infamous crime scene. Some people, relatives perhaps, had left little mementoes, and you'd be a hard man indeed to not feel the urge to shed a tear.

The food in the cafe isn't too bad either!

[Samuel]

"some latte sipping hemp underpant wearing prat"

Mag-bloody-nificent turn of phrase there!:ok: I love it.:D

[5206]

I think that this memorial is long overdue, but have a question that may seem incredibly simple - What is the criteria for inclusion? This may clarify what this memorial is for, ie for those members of the Services who have died whilst serving, or those who have died because they were serving.

Without detracting from anyone's service, I'll give an example. A friend is included on the memorial, but he died undertaking a sporting activity as a result of his level of experience and the situation he put himself in. Without diminishing his passing, does it compare with those who have died in training for operations, or on operations?

5206

[Al R]

The other half,

I saw these shots and thought of you, with sadness and with pride too. None of it makes sense, and I don't know whether we turn to pride as some kind of coping mechanism. I watched the Above Enemy Lines prog tonight, and the over riding thought I have is that although Private Gray was but a young lad, right at the bottom of the pile, at his moment of dying, he was surrounded by more care and dare I say love, than any General would ever get.

In life as in death, 'we' are all bonded by the same intangible dna, and we (I, anyway) bow my head in complete abject humility at the sacrifice that your fella made. We don't think of it in anything other than abstract terms, but he was prepared to lay down his life in the service of others, and I am just so humbled.

I'll make a point of dropping in and saying hello to him. As I suppose, will we all at some point. I don't know him, as far as I know I didn't meet him, but he won't ever get lonely I imagine! And although he sleeps soundly and lives forever at the same time, we will remember him, and them, with love, care, protection and with so much pride.

They can't be hurt anymore.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44173000/jpg/_44173529_names1_getty416300.jpg
http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44173000/jpg/_44173627_names5_getty416300.jpg

[Tappers Dad]

theotherhalf keep the faith


"I'll lend you for a little time a child of mine" 'He said,
"For you to love the while he lives
and mourn for when he's dead.
It may be six or seven years, or twenty two or three,
But will you, till I call him back, take care of him for me?
He’ll bring his charm to gladden you but should his stay be brief,
you'll have his lovely memories, a solace for your grief.
I cannot promise he will stay, since all from earth return,
but there are lessons taught down there
I want this child to learn.

I've looked this wide world over in search of teachers true,
and from the throngs that crowd life's lanes
I've decided upon you.
Now will you give him all your love, nor think the labour vain,
nor hate me when I come to call
to take him back again?"
I fancy that I heard them say;
“Dear Lord, Thy will be done,
for all the joy this child will bring,
the risk of grief we'll run.
We'll shelter him with tenderness,
we'll love him while we may,
and for the happiness we've known, for ever grateful stay.
And should the angels call for him,
much sooner than we planned,
we'll brave the bitter grief we'll feel,
and try to understand."
Anon

http://www.benknight.co.uk/images/white-astrid-rose.jpg

[Al R]

Thats a lovely poem TD.

[Topsy Turvey]

5206
Taken from AFM Website Q&A.
Who will be included on the memorial?
In general, members of the UK Armed Forces killed on duty, or as a result of terrorist action since the end of the Second World War will be included. Members of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary and the Merchant Navy who died in conflict zones while in direct support of the Armed Forces will also be included.
Who decides who will be included on the memorial?
The Trustees of the Armed Forces Memorial Trust will decide who to include on the Memorial. They have discretion in all cases.
In what circumstances will someone be included?
The emphasis of the new memorial is to recognise those 'killed on duty' and so it will commemorate those killed in training, on peacekeeping operations and on exercise as well as battle casualties.

[samuraimatt]

They said that the memorial included those killed during training. What about those killed at deepcut?

[Samuel]

...living proof that not everything in life has a purpose.

[cornish-stormrider]

So many names, so many mates, so many brothers and sisters never known, so much space, so many tears,

Time to go and hoist a large whisky in the finest traditions of memorial. What a beautiful place to honour our fallen friends.

[teeteringhead]

samurai

... with the greatest respect ... I really rather doubt that you know anyone whose name appears at Alrewas.....

..... if you did you would almost certainly not defile their memory with such inappropriate posting.

Deepcut may well be a problem, but here just ain't the place to air it.

Do I make myself clear...........?

[davejb]

The most fitting memorial will be that the remaining space is still blank ten years from now.
Dave

[5206]

Topsy,

Thanks.

IMHO, there needs to be a clear distinction between those names on the wall and those on the roll of honour, otherwise the next "15 000" will be diluted by those who died in circumstances that do not represent the sacrifice of the others. Dying on a bit of AT isn't the same as dying in Afg (wrt to this memorial).

5206

[ArthurR]

Theotherhalf well said :D

Davejb lets hope,

[neilmac]

A special place for special people, about time. Forget whatever reason for building it now, that doesnt matter a precious place for relatives to visit.
In the end memories and how they were loved will remain and that is priceless

NM