B1 At Fairford

[DEL Mode]

On UKAR website, there are photos of a B1 landing at Fairford with three engines fitted.

Assumng it is not digital trickery, and waiting for the "When I was On V-Bomber" comments, does anyone know any more detail behind this flight?

[airsound]

http://forums.airshows.co.uk/cgi-bin/ukarboard/ikonboard.cgi?;act=ST;f=9;t=39093
Doesn't look like digital trickery to me.

airsound

[Jobza Guddun]

Are the USAF LEANing too?

[Green Flash]

It's a long way from Dyess, or Diego Garcia, on 3.

[LowObservable]

That explains why I found one of these
http://www.geae.com/engines/military/f101/images/engines_f101.jpg
in the courgette patch this morning.

Do you think they'd mind if I put it on eBay?

[glad rag]

If you look closely there appears to be a stay in position to support the upper structure of the missing engine??:uhoh:

[Brain Potter]

I've never heard of an engine-out ferry with an engine actually "out" - but it would appear that this configuration is permitted on the B-1.:eek:

I guess that the aircraft is being ferried from a sandy place to a main base for repair. Staging through Fairford rather than conducting AAR in this condition?

[splitbrain]

One for the new Bengo there...

"Er, we have a lim for you to sign sir, no biggie quite routine I assure you" :E

[D-IFF_ident]

Indeed the USAF are LEANING - except they've dressed it up as 'AFSO 21'. :rolleyes:

[Green Flash]

Er, hang on. If they have the wherewithall to drop an engine in the field then surely they have the facilities to plumb a new one in? I am not an engineer!

[speeddial]

A lot more this than meets the eye, perhaps it came from a divert base where they weren't happy for it to sit around and be fixed on site, and the jet didn't come from the Middle East, it has nothing to do with Iraq/Afgstn

[Razor61]

It did have a serious engine fire as far as i know and it was part of a flight of two that went across the pond to a dusty place a few weeks ago but i'm assuming enroute it had the incident and never made it there.
I Don't think it will be repaired at Fairford, i think it might be just staging through and will probably go back to Dyess like it is via a few more airfields on the way (Kef or Lajes?)

Surely with three engines (or will it have just two working) it is now limited to cross the pond the usual way and so will need to hop along via several places on the way?

[speeddial]

Wait and see Razor, you might be surprised!

[Green Flash]

and the jet didn't come from the Middle East, it has nothing to do with Iraq/Afgstn

:confused: You havn't been through Al Udied recently, then!

[Razor61]

speeddial
So you are possibly stating that it might reside at FFD a few days/weeks then and will be repaired?
Why not do it at the divert base? The engine was obviously taken out and picked up by a transport, which didn't go in with a replacement. Why not just fly it to Dyess like it is, it's obviously flown quite some distance in the first place with one engine missing.

[D-IFF_ident]

http://www.usa-federal-forms.com/air-force/3-pdf-forms_pubs/www.e-publishing.af.mil/pubfiles/af/11/afi11-2b-1v3/afi11-2b-1v3.pdf

See para 7.15 -

"7.15.3. Aircraft Operations with One Engine Inoperative. Takeoffs with one engine inoperative from start of takeoff roll are prohibited. During emergency evacuation, launching an aircraft with one engine inoperative may be accomplished at the wing commander’s discretion or when directed by
higher headquarters."

AAR prohibited too...

Was there an evacuation from an as yet undisclosed airfield, or is someone making up new rules as they go along? :cool:

[Green Flash]

Just had a thought. Took off with 4 - arrive with 3?:eek::eek::eek:. Nah, it couldn't be. Could it? Beats losing a practice bomb! The nacelle doesn't look like its suffered from trauma.

[forget]

Well I imagine Rockwell and the USAF had a three engined ferry (that’s one engine removed) written into the Ops Manual from day one. Military aircraft – needs must.

I don’t imagine that someone down the line thought ‘Stuff it – let’s just go on the three we’ve got’. Standard practice – when required – guaranteed.

By the way, "When I was On V-Bombers" ............. ;)

[Always a Sapper]

"7.15.3. Aircraft Operations with One Engine Inoperative. Takeoffs with one engine inoperative from start of takeoff roll are prohibited. During emergency evacuation, launching an aircraft with one engine inoperative may be accomplished at the wing commander’s discretion or when directed by
higher headquarters."


So takeoffs with one engine inoperative from start of takeoff roll are prohibited eh... :hmm:

So where's the inoperative engine? ..... They took it out before the take off.... Started with 3 working engines fitted....... :D

[Razor61]

The B-1B had the engine fire last week. It's been sitting on the ramp wherever it diverted too for that long. Its been hopping along from base to base i'd say on minimal fuel and only two of the three engines.
I think it will hop along more to Dyess via as i said, one of the Atlantic divert bases either Keflavik or Lajes.

I Should imagine it would need to go the land hopping route because surely if you are in an aircraft cleared to cross the pond with 4 engines, and you have one engine missing, and possibly only using two of the three then this would be a limitation on what way you could go over the Atlantic (like ETOPS or whatever it is called)...

[JFZ90]

You'd have thought that with only 3 engines, i.e. only 1 engine operative on the starboard side, there was an unacceptable risk of unsymmetrical thrust if the remaining starboard engine should have a problem on take-off (and the chances of a problem with any given engine are not improbable).

Does this tell us then that a B1 can easily cope with only two engines on take off at a certain TOW, and furthermore it doesn't even matter if they are both at the same side?

I suppose you could argue that the Air France Concorde ended up with pretty much only two engines at full power on the same side, and may have survived if the TOW had been less (i.e. not fully loaded fuel & Pax) & they'd got the gear up (may have some of these facts slighty wrong from memory, but you get the line of thought).

[FKCX]

Is it still at Fairford? I live 2miles NW of the base and was awoken at exactly 0400 UTC on 5 Oct by an almighty noise as something large with lots (or perhaps 75% of lots) of thrust got airborne. It was a beautifully clear and still night. I saw the lights disappearing due west but could hear the noise for at least 5 minutes! My wife complained - but there again...

[Razor61]

It wasn't the B-1B because it only arrived Saturday around noon (6th).
It was probably a VC-10!

It seems B-1Bs have a habit of fires in sandy places... heres a pic of one in the Gulf War
http://www.b1b.wpafb.af.mil/images/gallery/b1_fire.jpg

[CHINOOKER]

Just a thought on this....Isn't Fairford one of the USAF,s designated airfields for "all things" strategic with regard to the operation of B1,B2,B52s etc.
Therefore, would it not be probable that the B1 will stay here for the appropriate repairs?.....I seem to remember a similar situation with a B52,during the second Gulf war, where an engine pylon suffered "ground damage" and the a/c was repaired on site.

[tonyosborne]

I live 2miles NW of the base and was awoken at exactly 0400 UTC on 5 Oct by an almighty noise as something large with lots (or perhaps 75% of lots) of thrust got airborne.

Twas a lovely U-2...left before dawn...

[The Swinging Monkey]

I remember seeing one catch fire on start up at Thumrait during the Afg push. Never seen so many people run away from an aircraft so fast!! mind, it was fully loaded with JDAMS and other goodies for OBL!!

[Pontious]

So has anybody actually ascertained as to why this 3 engined beast graced this green and pleasant land?

[wileydog3]

More likely there are some charts that show how much runway you need for a 2 engine takeoff and for a 3 engine. As for loss of control, you don't come in with the third engine until you have sufficient rudder and you feed it in as speed increases. We had 2 engine ferries on the 727 and although we didn't do it in the airplane when I was a sim instructor, we had some very good drivers who did their last sim checks all SINGLE ENGINE in the 737-300. Takeoff and all approaches and misses with one engine.

[TEEEJ]

http://www.afmc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123073557

Bomber rescue: AFMC helps return damaged B-1B to friendly environment

[JFZ90]

Interesting. Looks like they looked at the consequences in some depth, inc advice from Edwards. Risks must have increased by some degree - I wonder by how much? They obviously made a judgement that the risks were tolerable.

Can you see Boscombe ever having allowed something similar?

[wokawoka]

Just before i came back in Sept 07 from Kandahar a B1 had to make a diversion with a serious engine fire.
The word was they would not be able to repair it for a LONG time. So maybe they decided to fly it with authorisation to the nearest place where such repairs could be carried out????

[rab-k]

I believe ETOPs doesn't apply to MIL a/c.

[rab-k]

Thank you CBA. My post was in response to Post#20

[Navaleye]

The story.

Here. (http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htcbtsp/articles/20071031.aspx)