CPL IR

[r22-male]

looking for an answer.with a cpl last 2 years if i pass the ir written exam and pass the ir flight test, will that give a person a frozen atpl or a cpl ir, and is a cpl ir good enough for the operators in the north sea.:eek:

[Bravo73]

It will give you a CPL/IR.

Is that good enough for the NS? Only if they want you stay as a FO forever. And that is unlikely.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

[hihover]

If I were you, I'd give the North Sea Operators a call or drop them an email and get the answer direct.

tam

[the beater]

You can't get beyond a CPL/IR without multi-crew experience. Forget about a 'frozen ATPL', there is no such thing. Your qualification is as much as you can get (unless you are the holder of a UK/CAA ATPL) and is no less than is required to get a position on the NS.
If I was ten years younger that's what I'd be doing.

[helimutt]

With a CPL(IR) you could get taken on by north sea operators, subject to requirements/suitability etc.
If you pass CPL and then also do IR theory exams and then complete an IR course and pass the IR flight test, you can later upgrade to ATPL once you have the necessary hours TT night/multi eng/ multi crew experience etc as you are deemed to have the ATPL theory covered.

[Bravo73]

Ah but, the beater, if he doesn't have ATPL theory credits then a CPL/IR can never be 'made up' to an ATPL (regardless of the amount of multicrew time.)

If he went that route then he would have to take all of the ATPL exams at some point in the future. It is my understanding that the NS operators aren't keen on this scenario.

[helimutt]

They actually don't seem to care. If you have a CPL(H) and IR(H) then you're good to go. It's bums on seats.
Do the IR theory exams, 7 of them, and this automatically gives you the ATPL theory credit. Although i'm not sure if you could do the exams after finishing your flying course part of the IR and still use them towards the ATPL upgrade but personally I can't see why not.

:ok:

[Bravo73]

as you are deemed to have the ATPL theory covered.

Do the IR theory exams, 7 of them, and this automatically gives you the ATPL theory credit.

Not any more, I'm afraid, helimutt. This changed under the last (and very recent) amendment to JAR-FCL2.

[helimutt]

Oh SH*T!!! I was suckered into thinking LASORS 2007 Section G3.3was still correct. Theres no way on this earth i'm doing any more exams so I might as well look for another job now if I can't ever be a commander offshore. Wasting my time I guess.



:(:(:uhoh::{


all I can find is amendment 3, JAR FCL 2.285

can't seem to find appendix 1 anywhere!

[Bravo73]

Don't fret quite yet, helimutt. Because of the date of your exams and your IRT, you effectively qualify for 'grandfather rights' with regard to the theory credits. You should still qualify for an ATPL when you satisfy the various other requirements.

The amendment will only effect those who have still got to take their exams (or who now let their ATPL theory credits expire. ie Taking the IR exams will no longer reactivate ATPL theory credits.) Or, at least, that's my understanding of the situation.


PS 2007 LASORS was obviously published before this amendment came into force. And I think that it's the 'fifth amendment'.

[helimutt]

I'll take the fifth!! :ok:


I should be able to upgrade to ATPL after this winter so hopefully you are correct.
Don't you just love how simple this all is? After sitting 21 exams so far to go flying, i'm all 'examed out'!!!

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Do you hold a UK issued JAR CPL?
The UK CAA are still working with amendment 3 of JAR FCL 2. (You can confirm this in LASORS) see page 6 of lasors.
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf
If you sit the 7 IR exams, do the flying part of the IR course and get the IR issued. You will hold a CPL(H)/IR with an ATPL(H)/IR Theory credit.
The ATPL(H) theory credit as far as I remember lasts 7 years from when you last held an IR. So as long as you keep renewing your IR your ATPL theory credit will not run out.
CPL(H)/IR is good enough to get a job as a first officer on the North Sea, When you gain the required multi crew hours the CAA will then issue an ATPL(H)/IR.
This is what I had to do, I advise getting this in writing from the CAA just in case it changes in the future, however if you start this while the CAA are still working with amendment 3 of JAR FCL 2 you will be able to complete things under the present rules even if/when they start using a latter edition of JAR FCL 2.
I had this confirmed in writing from the CAA.

[VeeAny]

B73

Close its Amendment 6 (at least for some of the licensing issues, or is it amendment 3 + NPA 25), which I suppose you could call the '5th Amendment' if the original was amendment 1.

AIC 72/2007 explains it existence with 'These changes are contained in JAR-FCL 2, Amendment 6 (a corrigendum to Amendment 5)'.

The CAA say its amendment 3 according to http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?catid=175&pagetype=87&gid=1211.

Dont you just love clarity.

Gary

PS Congrats on your recent achievement !

[Bravo73]

Thomas,

Those are indeed the old rules. However, Amendment 6 (:O) has now come into force so CPL theory + IR theory no longer equals ATPL theory.

Which is the situation that the original poster is going to find himself in!


VNE,

Thanks. :):):)

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Hi Bravo

Thats not quite right, if his licence is issued by the UK CAA and he enrols on an IR theory course while the CAA are still using ammendment 3 of JAR FCL 2 then he can obtain his ATPL as per my previous post.

This said I would strongly advise getting this in writting.

TTTE. :)

[Bravo73]

Yes, Thomas, but the UK CAA are now using Amendment 6. So it's too late for that...

Remember - 2007 LASORS was published in 2006. Amendment 6 only came into force a couple of months ago. So there is little point in referring to an 'old' LASORS for confirmation.

[manfromuncle]

I thought although JAA FCL amendment 6 is the latest one to be published, the CAA are still using amendment 3 ?

[Bravo73]

manfromuncle,

You thought wrong, I'm afraid.


Here is AIC 72/2007 that VNE mentioned above:

http://www.ais.org.uk/aes/pubs/aip/pdf/aic/4W139.PDF

Please refer to paragraph 1.3. Amendment 6 came into force on 19th July 2007 (although, to be fair, there is a slightly 'grey area' until Jan 2008.)

[manfromuncle]

Blimey! Straight from no 3 to no 6...

I stand corrected. I can barely keep up with all this regulatory stuff.

It's nice to know the CAA Charges are being put to good use ;)

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Hi Bravo

Just read AIC 72/2007 I stand corrected :ooh:

TTTE.

[916]

r22
If you hold JAA CPL(H) and then get an IR(H), ie pass the 7 exams and flying course and test, then you will qualify for ATPL theory credit and be able to apply for an ATPL(H) when you have satisfied all other requirements such as night, multicrew, total hours, etc.
I had this confirmed directly from the CAA 2 weeks ago (in writing).

[r22-male]

have a caa cpl and did the first 3 ir exams last may so i vwould have been in amendment 3 so that means when i get ir flight test, if i go to the north sea could get my atpl then

[ThomasTheTankEngine]

Hi R22 male

Because you started when the CAA were using ammendment 3 of JAR FCL 2, the answer to your question is yes, I'm in the same position as you.

Don't forget you only get 18 months to complete the all IR theory exams from the end of the month when you first passed one of the IR theory exams.

Once you've passed all the IR theory exams you get 36 months to get the IR issued.