cumbernauld flying school - advice

[seeyoujimmy]

I have been learning to fly over the last year at cumbernauld flying school in scotland but feel as if i am not really progressing. I have 32 hours of dual flying but have not yet been solo, the main problem being my instructor keeps changing. The school does not seem to be able to keep instructors for long and i now have a new instructor who's first language is not english. its difficult to understand what he is saying (he is spanish) and his teaching is different to the last 5 instructors i have had. what should i do? i think its costing me money and time, both of which i dont have much spare!

should i change schools as there is another one at the airport? why dont instructors stay at the school and am i missing something? has anyone else had this problem at cumbernauld or anywhere else? i tried to ask the owner of the school what was going on but he didnt seem interested.

any advice welcomed.

[xrayalpha]

Hi "Jimmy"

I see your first day on pprune has been marked with four posts: - three of them not adding much to the community's knowledge.

So I am wary that you might be asking questions while knowing the answers! There was once a lot of stuff said on pprune about another flying school at Cumbernauld.

It is normal in most light aircraft schools to have a fairly high turnover of staff - indeed the CAA is consulting with the flight training industry about changing the need to have a CPL before instructing for money in a bid to alleviate the staff shortages (which are caused by people leaving for the airlines where the pay prospects are brighter).

Some schools use part-time instructors which can give a little bit more stability (since the instructors' main income comes from elsewhere). However, you may find that your days off are not the same as the part-timers' days off. So back to a range of instructors.

I think, if you are wise enough to learn to fly, you should be wise enough to be able to ask questions, as you are doing, and assess the answers. pop across the corridor to Leading Edge and ask about thier instructors. Go to Glasgow Flying Club and ask about theirs. Go to Glenrothes.

Yes, you may have to travel further, but the extra time in the car, more cash on petrol, is well spent if you have more fulfilling lessons.

As well as asking to see instructors, why not ask to see their qualifications? It amazes me how so many students take everything on trust! Ask to see your student records. Ask for a copy of them. Make sure your logbook is up tp date and signed off after every lesson.

To declare my interest, I teach people to fly microlights - and used to do it from Cumbernauld. I post my insurance documents on my web site for people to read (also handy for going to places where they want to see you insurance, I just ask them to download off the net!). Not one student in eight years has ever asked to see my instructor's rating!

All the above is based on generalities. I would have written the same if you had been a student of any of the other Scottish flying schools.

Good luck with your training.

XA

[seeyoujimmy]

xrayalpha,

i have posted 3 post before this as i couldnt post a new thread without doing so. i am not asking questions while knowing the answers, i am simply looking for advice.

i thank you for the post, and i will be visiting other clubs soon. i was not aware that the training notes could be copied, or that i needed my logbook signed by the school. i will start the ball rolling.

i was really looking for other peoples advice and experience as a fellow student suggested i might want to move schools if i was not happy.

thanks for the post.

[Hufty]

The Edinburgh flying club has a very experienced CFI who has been there for years - they are well worth a try.

[db16]

Jimmy
I have seen the operation at Cumbernauld FS and have met Ted; he is so short of FIs that the starting salary for a FR(R) with no experience is £18k
Leading edge are probably as short staffed too. I hope to do my FI renewal by 1 Oct and will be offering my services part time. ATPL holder, over 65 - been there and done it !!:)db16

[xrayalpha]

Hi,

My apologies for being suspicious, hadn't realised you need to make three posts before you can start a thread.

Since I run a flying school - albeit microlights - I do want to stay away from dog-eat-dog posts.

But your concerns are common among many students, so worth addressing, albeit cautiously,

Very best and fly into Strathaven sometime,

XA

[jidder]

:rolleyes:
I understand the problem but is it your problem or the other 5 instructors?
Have you understood what the other instructors have told you or are they all spanish too? Sometimes the first thing to go when your having trouble and loosing some capacity is communication!
Maybe you should request a change of instructor if there is one (English speaking)! But sounds like there isn't!
Perhaps the 5 instructors you have had, have taught you the same thing but in different styles! The thing i am getting at is! If you decide to go to another school. How do you know that this course of action would be the best for you at this stage of training!:ugh:
I agree that you should be solo by this stage in your training but is that due to teaching, ability or frequency of lessons? No offence ment!
As mentioned by others perhaps you should question the management to see if they can come up with a solution!
The main thing is to try and keep enjoying what you are doing!:ok:
Good luck:cool:
J.

[PH-UKU]

Come to Glasgow Flying Club. We've even got a floatplane that you can get lessons on next year :)

:ok:

[Sparky01]

Dont even think about a float plane. You are clearly having problems. Trying to get a different rating than basic SEP (L) A is a waste of time. Ted's school is about as good as it gets. Leading edge, Tayside, Perth, etc all havre the same problems. The problem isnt new, it isnt going away until the regulations change and the PPL training world returns to how it was in the '70's and earlier.

[NorthSouth]

Leading edge, Tayside, Perth, etc all have the same problemsBut Glasgow & Edinburgh FCs don't.
NS

[seeyoujimmy]

thanks for the advice everyone.i have decided to change schools and aircraft type and stick to one instructor who is full time and not going anywhere. i had a long discussion with a new school and i think i am making the right choice, current students at the school had similar experiences to myself and changing schools made the difference for them.

i think i will avoid the sea plane, not really needed right now!

sparky01, i'm afraid i simply dont agree that teds school is as good as it gets.... i tried to discuss my concerns with him (again) and got nowhere, and from what i can gleam from other students i am not the only one with concerns. some other students are also concerned about instructor shortage and lack of support for students, i'm sure they will make their own decisions.

north south, thanks for the suggestion but learning at a large airport is not something i am keen to do. delays and traffic are just another problem for me to contend with. one i dont need.

[NorthSouth]

James:learning at a large airport is not something i am keen to do. delays and traffic are just another problem for me to contend with. one i dont needFair enough - horses for courses etc. But it may well be rather different from your expectations. Delays generally don't happen, and as for traffic, at least when you're flying in controlled airspace you'll know where all the other traffic is, and don't have to worry about getting a Tornado up the jacksie! Plus if you train at a busy airport it will never be a fear factor going to one after you've got your licence.

Best of luck with your training, wherever you go.

NS

[No Country Members]

Sometimes the first thing to go when your having trouble and loosing some capacity is communication!



..........Quite.:E

[Chukkablade]

Where are you flying from now Jimmy?

I'm curious, as I know someone in Central Scotland looking for a heads up on a flying club that the students themselves would unreservedly recommend.

[Captain Smithy]

As has been mentioned, Edinburgh Flying Club's instructors have all been there for years, and are excellent.

Smithy

[Scottishflyer182]

If you read all off this thread you will read that jimmy has spoken to the CFI at least twice.

I learned to fly at Perth (Tayside Aviation) as it was then, most of my flying lessons where okay, however towards the end, a couple of hours prior to my test I too was mucked about. Like you I had to change instructor and strangley enough his English was not as good as it should have been, but a lot better than my Spanish!!!!!

I think jimmy should move.

Good luck.

[Brian304]

Yes jimmy I think that you should move schools, and maybe gain a new experience. It wouldn't hurt to move schools as your current lessons arn't really doing you too much good. Maybe find a training partner or somthing, then maybe you two could help each other out. But there are alot of free-lance instructors out there that are top of the range I must say, so if schools don't do you any good instructors look into the other side and get a free lance instructor.
BRIAN304:ok:

[smith]

Is it possible to do a ppl with a freelance instructor. I thought to do any training course it had to be via a school that was registered/licenced by the CAA to carry out the said instruction. A free lance instructor will not then be a part of the licensed school.

[wbryce]

I would personally speak to your CFI or get a copy of your training record, show it to another school; take a lesson and ask them assess your abilities while baring in mind, you will probably be doing this in an unfamiliar aircraft type so don't be too hard on yourself if you don't seem upto speed.

[Say again s l o w l y]

Smith, many "freelance" FI's have got registered facility status themselves. It's difficut to do now, but a few years ago it was a lot easier to get, so there is no problem if they have it. They are the "schools" themselves.

I don't want to get involved with any slagging of CFS, but ideally a student should have one instructor.

I can however say that Leading Edge don't have a problem with retaining FI's. The setup is completely different from CFS. It's a non-profit making club for a start, rather than a flying school. Not having hour building instructors is a good thing. You may find that there is a "little" more experience in the FI ranks as well......
Unfortunately we have lost one FI from the books recently, but that's me as I've lost my medical for a while.

There shouldn't be any trouble getting records. Ted has never been any trouble when I've asked for records from CFS before. He wants a written request, but that is no problem and is a sensible request anyway.

[maxred]

I am very familiar with the operation at Cumbernauld, and the difficulties in achieving PPL training in the uk. I think you may encounter the same issues at another school, although Prestwick Flight Centre appears to be reasonable in its approach. I have always stated that there are five main issues with training in the uk. 1. Weather, 2. Your time and availability, 3. Aeroplane availability, 4. Instructor avialability, 5. If none of the other four points merge, then recency, i.e. continuity. 32 hours does seem high without going solo, and you should approach your current school and find answers. Ted is a good guy and should give you an accurate appraisal. I faced the same when training many years ago at Glasgow Flying Club. I was fortunate enough to buy my own aeroplane, and an instructor who taught me to fly in it. I got my ppl within 45 hours. This may be an option for you, say take a share in something, then source an instructor to teach you. They do exist. Wish you well.

[Squawk7143]

SeeYouJimmy,

If you are willing to travel try Highland Flying School. Based at Inverness, ATSU just like Gla or Edi but (still) in Class G . No landing fees, no shortage of aircraft, no instructor problems. You get clear airspace and you have the benefit of a radar service if you want it. You also have the benefit of a LARS from Lossiemouth ( useful on solo x country):ok:

[NorthSouth]

maxred:I was fortunate enough to buy my own aeroplane, and an instructor who taught me to fly in itFantastic idea! Let me state here and now that I am available to be bought at any time. Price negotiable but all reasonable offers considered.;)
NS

[NorthSouth]

Oh dear, how many times does this have to be said? Stephen, we all sympathise with your difficulties but the primary advice to everyone has to be DO NOT GIVE MONEY UP FRONT TO FLYING SCHOOLS. Flying training is an extremely marginal business and is currently subject to uncontrollable cost increases. Training organisations are highly likely to want to hang on to your money so unless you are prepared to stick it out with your chosen school through thick and thin and make the most of it, don't trust them with your hard-earned cash, just put it in a bank and pay as you go.
NS

[Captain Smithy]

^^ Got it in one NorthSouth. Never hand over any up-front payments. Pay as you go, indeed.

Also, while I sympathise with your bad experience, I don't think launching into a slanging match against your old school will do much good at all.

[Say again s l o w l y]

I think I spoke to your mother a few weeks ago as I was just about to go into surgery. Good luck with CTC, you'll be having a blast out there. I'm very jealous!
I won't get into any slagging off of any particular schools, but I cannot see any reason why a school should hold onto your money.

You put it into an account with them and whilst you may lose some of it for "administrative purposes", there is nothing that stops you getting YOUR money back.

If it was me, I wouldn't be slagging someone off on a VERY public website if I was still trying to get money out of them. Try every option first, from solicitors to trading standards. Direct attacks on here won't really help you much I'm afraid.

Unfortunately this is just another example of why you must NEVER pay upfront.

[xrayalpha]

In journalism, we used to say dog doesn't bite dog.

So as an instructor, flying school owner etc I am hoping this will be ataken as a general point, and not criticism of any particular school.

If you feel it is worthwhile paying up front, check the terms and conditions of the deal. IE what happens if you get a job in another country etc.

There is a reason you get a discount for paying up front, and that reason might be - in some business plans - that the "punter" disappears abroad.

But the bottom line for most people is don't pay up front. Just don't.

And if you do, check the terms and conditions.

And if you haven't seen and signed any, then check with your local trading standards and consider small claims court (as a business owner, the hassle of facing a small claims court action might well make me consider paying up!)

Very best wishes with your training (but one lesson to be learnt is that aviation is a small world and dogs don't bite dogs)

Since you are still a teenager and haven't had the lessons learned the hard way that I have had, here's another. Write what you want to say, such as resignation letters or tirades against flying schools/employers, put them in a drawer for 24 hours and then re-read them!

[inboundtalla]

After a brief visit to Cumbernauld Airport last week i was wondering what was happening at Cumbernauld Flying School? The place looked completely locked up at 1630? A quick chat with another pilot in the building suggested that they were slowly leaving the scene at Cumbernauld.

I have just tried to access their web site with no page displayed. Could their days be numbered?

I have been listening on my scanner to cumbernauld of late (i stay nearby) and i dont hear much from their aircraft compared to others.

I know this thread might not be the best one but thought someone out there might know something i dont!

[Say again s l o w l y]

They seemed pretty busy the other day when I was there.

Not sure where you get the idea about them leaving. That is something I seriously doubt is true.

[murphy1901]

I have just tried to access their web site with no page displayed.

Their website seems to have moved to http://www.cumbernauldflyingschool.info/