True 4 seat tourer

[easy307]

I'm looking for my dream tourer.

4 x 85kg adults + 40kg luggage = 380kg (836lb).

140 knots (ish) in the cruise.

3 hours + 45 minutes reserve when loaded as above.

And reasonable to buy and run.

Which plane best fits this desciption?

Maybe someone out there is flying one already?

[drauk]

"Reasonable" is a very subjective term, especially when it comes to costs.

There are several that meet the other basic criteria, including the Cessna 182, like http://fly.dsc.net/fs/n22nn (http://fly.dsc.net/fs/n22nn/)

The 182 gives up some performance (it'll do 135knots) to things like the TB20 (150+) and a Mooney, but gains on short field performance and maybe price and availability.

[Chilli Monster]

TB20 with that loading will give you about 4 hours fuel. If you prefer low wing to high wing it's a definite consideration.

As for price - there are a few reasonably priced examples out there, and they tend to be well equipped. Worth thinking about (I will admit to a bias here - I've got one and love it).

[easy307]

Thanks,

The 182 fits the bill, although I have always preferred low wing aircraft.

It's pathetic, but I prefer the way they look. It's also easier to see in the

turn.

I was figuring on running costs of about £90 per hour wet, and a purchase

price of less than £100,000.

[FullyFlapped]

Cessna 206 or (better yet) 210.

Speed, six seats, excellent short field performance (relative to other "normal" aircraft) ... and yes, the wing's on top, but why spoil your view when you're touring ?

OK, I'm biased too ! ;)

FF :ok:

[JUST-local]

Has anyone seen that part of the post, 182, 205, 210, TB20 £90.00 per hour wet! You would need to put some hours on to get near that figure. I'm sure some owner operators of these types will give you a good idea.
As the fuel cost alone can be as much as 2/3 of that it does not leave much if any room for fixed costs or lifed items.
Cherokee six may also fit the bill.....

[easy307]

Sorry Just local,

I wasn't allowing for fixed costs in that figure of £90 wet.

Cheers.

[nouseforaname]

I would agree with the 182 being a great choice. It's a great plane for touring, very reliable, easy to get parts. Anything beyond a 230hp engine in our current fuel situation would be very thirsty when attached to a Cessna Airframe...i.e. the C206 or C210 (310hp).

[easy307]

Any diesel contestants?

[gcolyer]

Tell you what..

I flew a Maule M6 235 the other day, that would easily the weight that you wanted and cruise at about 130kts.

[Saab Dastard]

Robin DR400 Regent (180) would be close, and I believe that the President DR500 (200) would fit the bill.

I admit that I do like the Robins! Need hangaring, of course.

If I had the wonga, that's what I'd like!

SD

[wsmempson]

PA28 235 Dakota - definately. PA28 Archer II possibly(albeit a bit slow in the cruise). PA28 200R maybe, but running costs a concern. Let me know if you find a better answer....:rolleyes:

[flybymike]

Can't resist posting this link.....

www.empirics.plus.com

[BackPacker]

Any diesel contestants?

Maybe the DA-50. Not sure. Not on sale yet anyway, as far as I know.

[coodem]

Somehow I doubt the DA-50 will come in under £100k, I really hope Im wrong, I would love one

[High Wing Drifter]

easy307,

At least you avoided the temptation of adding "Aerobatic" to the wish list :}

What about something in the Piper Comanche range or a Balenca (sp?) Viking? The older ones seem to have more lifting capacity.

[MichaelJP59]

The DA-50 certainly won't be cheaper than the DA-40 and they're about £160K aren't they?

[davidatter708]

Not out in uk i dont think and ull have the fun buliding it rv10 i do believe is the 4 seater
dave

[Zero Thrust]

The Piper Twin Comanche can fly at 160 kts on 50 litres per hour and carry 4 or even 6 people if you fly on reduced fuel load.

Bear in mind that they also have the capability to fly for 5.5 hrs without tip tanks and 7.5 hours with tip tanks so reducing the fuel load still gives you more endurance than the average single.

I have owned a Cessna 182 and it burned 55 litres at 130 kts, the Twin com burns less fuel at this speed so MPG is better overall at any speed you care to choose.

Short field grass capability (I use 600 metres regularly ), a stable instrument platform, good spares back up... what else have the Romans ever done for us ? The list goes on.

[Zero Thrust]

PS

If you don't believe me read the article in "Flyer mag" Oct 2006. The author has now bought one himself.

Other articles here:

http://www.planecheck.com/twincom.htm

http://www.fergworld.com/articles/article_twin_comanche.php

[FullyFlapped]

Zero,

What speed will a twin-com make if you push it hard (say at 10,000'), and what would the fuel burn be ? Feel free to define "hard" in whatever way is applicable to the aeroplane !

FF :ok:

[LowNSlow]

How about a Yak18T cruises at 125knt, 4 hours+ with the optional long range tanks @ 20 gal/hour ish. Payload is 1,100 lb It's also aerobatic when 2 up!!

[Zero Thrust]

Fully flapped

See the attached articles:
http://www.fergworld.com/articles/article_twin_comanche.php
http://www.planecheck.com/twincom.htm
email me with your phone number and I will call you with more info if you wish.

[S-Works]

So what you really need is a Cessna 172 Hawk XP. Real 4 seat aicraft, 5hrs range at 128kts. I fly mine all over Europe in the Airways between Fl100 and FL170 at 32lph.

[WorkingHard]

Concur with that Bose-X, stunning airplane for the money.

[IO540]

A TB20 should do it, and is a classy modern plane too.

Just done UK to Trieste, 4:30hrs, FL100-FL190 at 140KTAS at FL190, initial FOB 86.2, final FOB 36.1 USG.

[easy307]

Does anyone have a review or link on the TB20.
It sounds like a mighty fine steed.

[Fright Level]

I'm also considering a TB20. You can download the POH from the EADS site (http://www.socata.eads.net/1024/en/General%20Aviation/aircraft/Retractable%20Gear/TB%20GT%20Family.html).

[Oldpilot55]

My mate has a Cherokee 235 that he is keen to sell. Its in very nice condition.

www.lincolnaeroclub.co.uk/sales.html (http://www.lincolnaeroclub.co.uk/sales.html)

Also advertised on Plancheck, AFORS and UKGA

PM if you need high res photos.

[IO540]

Prices of 4 seat IFR tourers have fallen to silly levels recently. I have just seen a couple of TB20s advertised in GA Europe for about £40k. OK, these are going to be real dogs with decrepit avionics but at this price you can strip it down to bare metal and do it up as you want it, and within a 100k budget would get a very nice machine, good for FL200, 1000+nm zero-fuel range, etc.

These are late 1970s designs which is about 30 years more modern than anything else going.

The DA50 will be very good - a big plane designed to carry four fat Americans, or four fat Brits for that matter - but it won't be much below £300k, I reckon. A new TB20 was £240k+VAT (with various desirable options such as WX500, EDM700, TKS prop) when they last made them in 2003.

Cirrus have since bombed the used plane prices everywhere, which is good news for anybody entering the IFR tourer scene, and awfully bad news for anybody already in there but wishing to exit aviation altogether.

The TB user group is here (http://www.socata.org). Nowadays the postings there are largely made up of a small number of mostly American owners but it is a huge resource for anybody looking at TBs.

[AC-DC]

The aircraft that will this and much more is the Comanche 250 and all 260 models. The 260C will take all of you for 5h +45min. Yes they are old but no other aircraft ever made can deliver the Comanche numbers. At 65% power you fly at 140KTIS and burn 12-13gl/h. Cannes is not a problem with this aircraft.