Popular Mechanics Magazine List of 10 Influential Crashes

[RobertS975]

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/transportation/4221138.html

I post this to stimulate discussion. The list can certainly be open to criticism... it certainly appears to be oriented towards American accidents. It completely neglects the changes influenced by the events of 9/11. Although almost all of the accidents on their list of 10 were influential, many other accidents around the world could have made the list.

[con-pilot]

I'll have to admit that there are few other accidents that have occurred around the world and the US that could be on that list.

Chicago AA DC-10 accident, and the DC-10 in France prior to that that had the same cause. The two 747 ground collision. Just to mention a few.

[RobertS975]

The AA DC10 ORD takeoff accident where the engine physically left the aircraft and the THY DC10 accident did not have the same cause. The THY accident was due to a cargo door opening, the floor buckling due to decompression and loss of control. There was a AA DC10 that had a similar occurence but landed successfully.

I do agree that the THY DC10 coupled with the AA DC10 incident did have an influence that resulted in design modifications of the DC10 and other widebody aircraft as well.

[RobertS975]

One error of fact in the article... while discussing the 1956 Grand Canyon collision, the article says there hasn't been a collision between airliners in the US for 47 years, presumably referring to the TW/UA collision over Brooklyn, NY in 1960.
However, on December 4, 1965, and Eastern L-1649 Connie and a TW 707 collided over Danbury, CT. The TW 707 landed safely at JFK (was it Idlewild at the time?) but the EA Constellation made a controlled crash landing in a field 40 miles north of NYC. There were 4 fatalities, including the Eastern captain who went back into the burning wreckage to assist the evacuation.

[BeechNut]

The AA DC10 ORD takeoff accident where the engine physically left the aircraft and the THY DC10 accident did not have the same cause. The THY accident was due to a cargo door opening, the floor buckling due to decompression and loss of control. There was a AA DC10 that had a similar occurence but landed successfully.

I do agree that the THY DC10 coupled with the AA DC10 incident did have an influence that resulted in design modifications of the DC10 and other widebody aircraft as well.

Although an AA DC-10 over Windsor/Detroit did suffer a decompression due to the same cargo door problem; the floor buckling also caused serious control difficulties; however the crew were able to land safely. I can't recall if there were any casualties; well one maybe, I believe an elderly gentleman in a casket that was in the cargo compartment went for a ride...

[bomarc]

idlewild became JFK very quickly after the president was shot...probably JFK by then

I would Like to point out one collision between airliners that didn't seem to get noticed by popular mechanics...a USAIR 737 was cleared to land at LAX and hit a regional airliner Metroliner holding on the runway for takeoff.

this was certainly a collision...albeit on the ground...but then aren't we mincing words?

[con-pilot]

Although an AA DC-10 over Windsor/Detroit did suffer a decompression due to the same cargo door problem; the floor buckling also caused serious control difficulties; however the crew were able to land safely. I can't recall if there were any casualties; well one maybe, I believe an elderly gentleman in a casket that was in the cargo compartment went for a ride...

Oops, :\

Sorry, senior moment.


(Sometimes I suffer from CRS :ooh:)

[gimmesumvalium]

Hello Con-Pilot,
Suffer from the same syndrome myself. Can't remember when i had the last event tho'..................
GSV

[DozyWannabe]

Ignition Override:
The engine pylon was left attached to the engine and both were removed as a single unit. Or was it vice versa?

Nope, you were right the first time.

I remember reading that despite not getting explicit permission from MD or the regulators, other airlines (I think Continental) had adopted the procedure as well, because on the plus side, it halved the maintenace turnaround for engine removal. Unfortunately on the downside if the engine/pylon assembly rotated even a fraction of a degree on the forklift, the top plate wouldn't marry up to the wing properly and a stress fracture would form.
I didn't know the details of this guy's career after he left though. Interesting...

I guess the difference between the THY/AA Windsor and the AA/ORD incidents from the point of view of that article was that the latter was caused by airlines going ahead with unauthorised changes to maintenance procedures, and the former by allowing a manufacturer's 'gentleman's agreement' to cover the replacement of the faulty cargo doors rather than an enforced AD.

Shame it involved Douglas both times (although they couldn't be held responsible for unauthorised maintenance procedures, it was still bad publicity).

[PBL]

One error of fact in the article....

Another is to suggest that the Cerritos collision led to light planes being required to use transponders in control areas, as well as to mandate TCAS in commercial transports.

In fact, the PSA San Diego collision led to Terminal Control Areas (as they were then called) and the Mode-C transponder requirement. Cerritos led to the mandate for TCAS.

PBL

[Centaurus]

I don't know about influential crashes, but the Thai Airways International A310 crash at Kathmandu on July 31, 1992 remains a classic example of dismal airmanship. Despite ground based navigation aids at the airport and VOR and ADF receivers in the aircraft, the crew apparently disregarded these in preference to giving priority to punching computer keys in their CDU's and meanwhile losing situational awareness in IMC. The crew's use of the FMS for navigation was uncoordinated and may have led to confusing system outputs. Notwithstanding, what should have been a straight forward missed approach turned into tragedy when the crew allowed the aircraft to wander in circles until hitting a mountain at 11,500 ft elevation in an area with MSA of 21,000 ft. The accident was well described in a book (published in October 1993) called Air Disaster Volume Three. The Australian author was MaCarthur Job

[pulse1]

I always thought that the Staines Trident crash had a strong influence on the introduction of CRM.

[RobertS975]

In any list of the 10 most influencial aircraft accidents, the crashes of 9/11 must be included. What happened that day to those 4 unfortunate airliners has had a vast influence on so much in the entire aviation industry. Massive overhauls in airport perimeter security, passenger screening procedures, advance notice of passenger lists, better security for ramp workers/vendors, lugagge screening for explosives etc.

Plus, the entire "rules of engagement" that use to guide cockpit crews in the event of a hijacking are been thrown out and replaced by a new set of guidelines. There can be no question that the events of 9/11/01 belong on any list of influential aircraft accidents.

[antic81]

Hi Robert

While I completely agree the events on 11 September 2001 have been highly influential on the industry, my only thoughts is that they weren't accidents at all, they were very deliberate, so perhaps they were not included for this reason?

Ant

[RobertS975]

Another possible mistake in the article: Under the Aloha 737 "peelback" accident, it states that the only fatigue related accident was the SUX United DC10 accident. Now as I recall that accident, it was an uncontained fan "explosion" in the tail mounted engine that led to complete loss of hydraulics. How does this count as a fatigue related crash?

[antic81]

This accident was caused by fatigue of sorts.
There was a weakness in a small section of the titanium alloy from manufacture, I forget the exact number of flights but it was around the 17000 hour mark where the crack that had been forming hit 13 mm in length and this caused the catastrophic uncontained failure of the fan which in turn then led to the subsequent damage to all three hydraulic lines...so essentially it was fatigue related.

[bomarc]

i think the md80 crash by alaska airlines after using a non manufacturer procedure to lube the jackscrew should have been included.

FAA approved it on a local level


done only to save money

no other problems on the whole fleet...just alaska

[ChristiaanJ]

Maybe not one of the "10 most influencial aircraft accidents".
But one I will never forget is the crash of EA flight 401 in the Everglades, December 29, 1972.
One of the contributing factors was that the aircraft had inadvertently been knocked out of Alt Hold and into CWS mode, without this being clearly shown to BOTH pilots. As a result, the aircraft went into a shallow descent and struck the ground.
The contents of this link cover the story to some extent:
http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ea401.shtml
In my case.... I was working on the Concorde flight test programme at that time. We got the preliminary data within a few weeks, and we looked at the Concorde systems. And yes, under identical circumstances, it could happen on Concorde too. We put in the necessary modifications in soon afterwards.

[galaxy flyer]

I would add TWA 514 at Dulles in the early seventies--crew CFIT'd having descended to FAF altitiude upon receiving approach clearance. In US, changed lots of ATC procedures. If you hear, "maintain XXXX' until established on final, cleared approach" that's why!

EAL 401 for the same reason-CRM, but we didn't start it until UAL started CRM training in 79, friend of mine was in the first course as guinea pig new-hire.

EAL 66 at JFK, first identified microburst-the wonderful Ted Fujita investigated that one. Pan Am at MSY was another accident BEFORE Delta at DFW that showed us the risks of microbursts.

A lot of folks show how it shouldn't be done

GF

[TURIN]

better security for ramp workers/vendors


Erm....:hmm:

I wouldn't call removing a pot of yoghurt from someone who is quite capable of bringing a large aircraft down by loosening the fastners on the fly-by-wire computers, "better" would you?:rolleyes: