PPL Questions..

[1mag1n3]

Hey guys.
I am 16, and would like some information on a PPL. I have just finished school which i am hoping for grades in the region of A's and A*'s, and i am going onto college to study further maths, maths, physics and geography.

Obviously i wold love to be a pilot for a large airline in the future, but now i think it would be a perfect idea to get a PPL in my pocket.

Just some background information on this would be super, such as hours, costs, skill required, usefulness in the future etc, and am i legal to get a PPL aged 16?

I live near Middlesbrough, so if anyone has got their PPL at a school near here then could you tell me about it :)

Thanks for reading,
Chris.

And is this the right forum? Im not sure if it is!

[RudeNot2]

Yes this is the correct place to post..

Going through the training at 16 will not be a problem. One of the guys at the same flying club / school as myself did his first solo on his 16th birthday and passed his skills test a few days after his 17th..

I wish I could wind back time and go that route!!

If you have access to the required funds and can manage to fly at a minimum once a week then you will fly through the course. Consistency is the answer. I have been flying for a year and a half and am about to do my cross country qualifier. The JAR PPL is a minimum of 45 hours though few complete in this time. You will be required to sit 7 written exams and an RT oral. Costs vary by school and probably expect to pay £120 an hour or thereabouts for a Cessna 150.

Take your time and enjoy it.

RudeNot2

[Slopey]

Following on from the above:
Costs vary depending where you live, up by me, it's around £180 per hour for example - expensive, but it's cheaper elsewhere. You *can* train abroad on a "compact" course if that suits you for around £5k all in, but that's up to personal preference.

The most useful document for you to look at right now is LASORS: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/LASORS_07.pdf (see Section C1) it contains everything you need to know about the PPL issue. Most of the below is taken from that.

You can't be issued with the PPL licence until you are 17, but you can train towards it from 14 onwards (including the skills test).
Minimum experience to get the licence issued is 45 hours of which 25 must be dual instructed, 10 must be solo and include a cross country (xc for short) flight of at least 150nm with landings at 2 different aerodromes as the departure one.

There are 7 exams - all multi-choice and a practical RT (Radio Telephony) exam which may be done as part of your skills test rather than an formal exam.

Air Law (one of the more boring exams) is usually required before soloing in the UK (not legally, but generally accepted thats the case).
The standard texts for the books are the Trevor Thom series or Jeremy Pratt. Each to their own - Pratt is a bit more wordy, but I personally preferred them to the Thoms. Any flight equipment shop (Transair et al) and probably your club will have them.

You will need to hold a Class 2 Medical certificate (for the licence issue - but not during training). This consists mainly of a vision/hearing test, finger prick blood test and an ECG (machine that goes ping). If you have any major health issues, are colour blind or have bad vision, seek advice - it will curtail your activities. If you're considering going commercial in a few years, you'll need a Class 1 - even stricter. The Class 2 will cost you around £120-200 to get, and its renewed on a 5 year basis until you're older when it drops to 2 years (I think - might be wrong on the 5 year front).

Good advice is to NEVER pay for anything up front (Flying Schools have a habit of going pop), and to get the medical first rather than later.
Once you get the poo coloured licence, you need to do 12 hours in the second year to keep it valid including an hour with an instructor, and it lasts for 5 years.

Currency is key - if you can't fly at least twice a month when learning, you should consider waiting, save your money, and have a consolidated go at it over the course of a couple of months later on (or do a residential/4/5week course).

Flying every day/couple of days does wonders for your ability whereas trying to pick up where you left off every 5-6 weeks is a nightmare. Bear in mind the UK weather does not lend itself to flying training.
And most of all, enjoy it! :)

edited the bit about the skills test/licence issue at 17 for posterity!

[Slopey]

*whoops!* ;)

[gcolyer]

Once you get the poo coloured licence, you need to do 12 hours in the second year to keep it valid or an hour with an instructor, and it lasts for 5 years.


You mean 12 hours in the second year of which 1 must with an instructor.

[1mag1n3]

Wow, thanks for those details! They were, well, perfect! I think once i have enough money i will pay as you go, once a fortnight, or save for a few months and have more money and more lessons in a short space of time, which would also save money in regards to pay as you go.

It will be about 4 weeks, maybe longer till i get started but i think it would benefit me in the long run.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think for me to do..:
1. Get my PPL before going to an FTO, which would leave me with no funds to back up the loan...
OR
2. Save the money and put it towards going to an FTO in the future?

These are very simple questions but i would like a second opinion.

At the moment i think i will be going for the PPL, but in the long run i would think the money would help!

Thanks again, especially Slopey:ok:
Chris.

[Slopey]

gcolyer - yep - swap "or" for "and" - I was on a roll and got carried away - I've just looked that up myself last week too as I'm coming up to the 2 years. Doh! Anyway - page 242/3 Section F1.4 in Lasors. :) (and edited again for posterity!).


1mag1n3 - up to you really. If you're going integrated you'll need another 50-60k so hey ho, in for a penny, in for a pound!

If you're going the modular route then it may be better to wait until you can *really* afford to do it.

But it's *your* choice - you'll find propenents and detractors for any different scenario here - ultimately, it's up to you.


One thing which may be a point to note, and not something you don't think about when you're pre-ppl stage is currency. Once you've got your hard earned licence, you need to keep current. If you're wanting to take mates/family up, then you need 3 take offs and landings in the preceeding 90 days - and doing 3 circuits once every three months isn't a great plan skill level wise when you end up flying 4 up on a hot day with a tricky crosswind you thought would be fine.

With the UK Weather - keeping current is a constant challenge at the moment.

Worse still, unless you're going to buy into a share (but at your age it's possibly out of your reach), most clubs will have currency limits much lower than the 90 days - more like 30.

The upshot is, you spend your entire flying budget constantly flying with instructors (there's no guarentee they'll let you log it as P1 either), always getting re-checked out on an aircraft. Not really how you probably want to spend your time flying.

It's been mooted before on the Wannabes forum that rather than fly 5-10 hours a year, constantly with instructors, getting throughly jaded, it may be better to save a pile of cash and either go directly into integrated or start the modular route in earnest once you're clear of school/Uni/working/got the huge bank loan/got onto a scholarship scheme.

And there are usually flying oppertunities through both school and Uni with RAF air cadets/gliding clubs etc which can help.

Your decision - unless you can organise the cash (parents or bank etc) be prepared to keep paying to sit next to an instructor a handful of times a year over the next few years.

And always remember that if you (through no fault of your own), spend £60k on the modular route, then have a medical reason which means you can't get a Class 1 medical - you are *going* to have to have a back up plan.

Nothing to stop you doing 5-10 hours a year over the next 3-4 years though - you'll probably end up doing that with the instructor anyway so you don't technically *need* the licence until later unless you're going to be able to afford to fly regularly and can fit it in with studies/work and the weather.

it's your decision - there's far to many ways to do it for anyone to have an authoratitive answer on it.

Just make sure you enjoy it - I've known people who were totally mad for the whole heavy metal career, did 5-6 hours in a cessna puking their guts up and never want to fly in anything again (or worse still, they just couldn't do it - there is a bit of aptitude required after all).

[RudeNot2]

Just looking at your situation - you are 16. If you went for your PPL now - would you be able to keep flying or at least the minimum for revalidation whilst at college / university? Whilst at uni join the UAS or such like and get some flying at the taxpayers expense or for minimum outlay and apply for any bursaries available such as GAPAN. These will not take you all the way to the (f)ATPL but may well help with the selection process once you start applying for the airlines - showing that you chased every opportunity.

[1mag1n3]

Thanks guys for those replies again!

Well i think saving looks like the sensible option, as keeping the PPL valid would be a challenge in itself. I should save about £8k (taking away several costs) through college, that is if all goes well, which would be a large sum to put towards going to an FTO.

I think ill be going out for the odd flight, but nothing too adventurous to burn all the cash away, when it could be spent on going to a better FTO.

My parents are quite stubborn with their money mind, as when i discussed about the loans they simply brushed it away with a NO as an answer if it was secured, but i think with a possibility in the future i could persuade them to do this.
I dont know if this is off topic or anything, but how large is the largest UNsecured loan someone has had through a highstreet bank?

Thanks,
Chris.

[Sedbergh]

If money is a major issue, many gliding clubs are offering cadetships etc which represent very cheap flying for people your age. You can solo a glider at 16. I know gliding hours don't count for a lot licence-wise when you front up to do your PPL, but you'll make a much better pilot.

[Slopey]

As far as loans go - best to have a search on the wannabes forum - it has come up there before.

Off the top of my head, if you're going with one of the well known integrated outfits in the UK (like OAT) they can help with financing and which bank to approach. I think HSBC were one who did a professional career type loan, but I may be wrong.

To be honest - phone a couple of the schools up - tell them you're planning going integrated in 2-3 years time at the earliest and if they have any advice on financing the course - I'd expect they'd have the best advice! :)

(But ALWAYS seek an approved financial advisors opinion - they are usually free - they make money of commission, so use them in case there are any pitfalls).

[gcolyer]

HSBC don't offer the loan anymore. You would need to get either an everyday unsecured loan or a secured loan.

Commercial flight training does not come under the Career development loan scheme. At the age of 16 (if i could turn back the clocks) I would get my ppl and then save like a looney. I would also go the modular route as it is cheaper, and I can't be doing with the "more oppertunity by going integrated route" arrgument.

[er340790]

If you really want to go down that route, take a look at Canada. Several colleges and unis now offer a degree in Aviation Management or similar where you graduate after 3 years with a full CPL and seaplane ratings etc etc. Entry from age 17.

No idea as to cost but their subsequent job recruitment rates are among the best in the industry. Google Confederation College - Aviation School of Excellence in Thunder Bay to get an idea.

If they'd exisited when I was 18 I would have killed to get on such a course.

Best of luck.

[1mag1n3]

Thanks again for the opinions and help.
I think finance is really the only problem for me, as i dont think i would struggle with the education side of things as this is a positive for myself, yet finance is the obstacle which stands in the way.
I think the most sensible thing to do would be to save like a looney :) and get a loan to make up the costs left over, which would be probably a hefty sum of money...
And as i have said before, the world is my oyster, so i can really go anywhere if it is the right price, and offers a decent training program.
And as many say modular = integrated now so i think ill be going modular if i cant finance an integrated course, as my back-up plan :\
I think the largest unsecured loan without repayments for 18 months is £25k, and secured can go up to about £50k, but elsewhere i would think these could change a lot.
Anymore help would be greatly appreciated.

Chris.

[gfunc]

Hi Chris,

If you live close to an airfield, you might want to try what I did and pitch up at a flying school one day and see if you can get some form of employment (e.g. aircraft washing, front desk, working on the line etc ) in return for flight training. Myself and several others managed to go from nothing to PPL (over the course of several years) thanks to a great club at my local airfield.

You'll have a great time, learn a lot about aviation and the club will have someone other than another old geezer hanging around :ok:

Cheers,

Gareth