Airport Security Fiasco?

[Agent Oringe]

I have on good authority that BFS and LUT are now charging £1 for a pack of 4 clear plastic bags for your 100ml liquid items.


I think this has gone far enough :mad:

[llondel]

Actually, I think this one might have some merit. Once your average piece of clueless SLF has suffered extortion at the scanner, perhaps next time he'll remember to pack the stuff properly in advance and not hold up the whole :mad: queue messing around (I still have sore memories of two people in front of me at Stansted doing exactly this, the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue).

I'd class it as idiot tax provided it doesn't degenerate into "you must use one of our bags, not your own", at which point it does become pure extortion.

[SLFguy]

"the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue)."

er...what was she supposed to sort it into..?

[llondel]

er...what was she supposed to sort it into..?

She'd reached the table by then (he was three in front of me, she was right in front) so she could at least have had her bag open and started looking for where the stuff was. OK, probably only a couple of minutes extra wasted, but they all add up. I've been on a flight with less than two minutes to spare before now due to excessive security queues.

[k3lvc]

The rules have been in place for long enough now (regardless of whether we agree with them or not). The biggest issue continues to be those who think the rules don't apply to them or 'forget' that they have two items of hand luggage &/or liquids in their bag.

Hopefully the queues will get shorter as those of us that can find alternatives to travelling through BAA's Shopping Centres - my wallet (both business and personal) is considerably fuller this year having discovered the merits of videoconferencing/Eurostar/Ferries & regional airports the first 3 of which let me forget about 100ml bottles/plastic bags & queues.

[A2QFI]

One version of the rules I have found says

"The contents of the plastic bag must fit comfortably and the bag sealed. Each passenger may carry only one such bag of liquids. The bag must be presented for examination at the airport security point. Liquids that can not be placed inside the re-sealable bag must be packed into the hold luggage and checked in.

It depends what people think is meant by "Presented for examination at the security point". Many might think that this meant presented in your hand luggage. If they can put up signs saying take of your coat/jacket and videos produced at huge expense then they should show people getting out their plastic bags full of lethal mascara and unguent body lotions and make the requirement clear to people who perhaps only travel once a year.

[10secondsurvey]

Actually there would be no queues if airports actually used all their security points. I've said it before and I'll say it again, if every pax turned up at security prefectly organised, then the outcome would simply be that airport management would cut the staff/screening points further, leading to long queues again.
The chaos isn't the fault of the pax, it is greedy airport management who like to 'spin' any problems they have into being the fault of pax. As someone else above pointed out, it is wise to do anything possible to avoid these airports that have been turned into shopping malls.
Sadly, some of the staff posting here seem to have swallowed the management 'spin' hook, line and sinker.
As for charging for those bags, I really just cannot believe it. Utter b*st*rds.

[10secondsurvey]

As regards presentation of the plastic bag, well it varies where you go. In the USA you'll get told off if you take it out of your bag, and actual requirements vary within the UK as well.

[27mm]

10secondsurvey, have to disagree with you - STN last Sun PM was a nightmare, caused mainly by EZY online check-in failing, EZY check-in desks opening v late and a total lack of queue management, resulting in 2hr wait for check-in and many pax missing their flights. There were also obvious serious security issues with that many pax milling around groundside. Security checks themselves were no problem, apart from the usual moronic pax that can't / won't read the signs and then have to re-pack bags whilst holding everyone else up, not to mention those that think they can walk through with a carry-on bag weighing as much as a full suitcase. I'm not sure what the percentage of moronic pax is, but it's sure as hell enough to hold everyone else up! Rant over.....

[A2QFI]

27mm is correct. People 'try it on' with hand luggage because they have seen others break the rules or have got it away with it themselves. I have seen oversize hand luggage, I have seen heavy stuff that took 2 grown men to get into the overhead locker, I have seen people with 4 items of hand luggage excluding their duty free and so it goes on. If the existing regs were rigorously enforced the word get round and the problem would soon end.

[chrism20]

Actually, I think this one might have some merit. Once your average piece of clueless SLF has suffered extortion at the scanner, perhaps next time he'll remember to pack the stuff properly in advance and not hold up the whole :mad: queue messing around (I still have sore memories of two people in front of me at Stansted doing exactly this, the second could see the first and made no attempt to sort her stuff until she was at the front of the queue).

I'd class it as idiot tax provided it doesn't degenerate into "you must use one of our bags, not your own", at which point it does become pure extortion.


Here here!

Couldn't agree more

A prime example of this one was a few weeks ago at EMA when they are asked when their boarding card is checked 'do you have any liquids in your hand luggage?' pretty simple question you would think!, they answer NO. Then they get along to the scanner and low and behold BEEP! and out of the bag comes 4 yes 4 litres of coke.

[10secondsurvey]

Just remember, not everyone is a frequent flyer.

For example, one of my relatives flew recently for the very first time. He found the whole process from check in to bag weight to security, and little plastic bags bewildering. At security, he gets sternly 'told off' for not getting things right. This relative is seventy years old, but is by no means an idiot.

The fact is, that to ordinary folks, the whole process of getting to the airport, checking for tickets and passport, then checking in and security, is a bewildering experience once or twice a year.

Security staff really should chill, and stop taking this ridiculous critical attitude to people who are, after all, their paying customers. I think talking of an 'idiot tax' is beyond stupidity, and conceited beyond belief.

Until ALL the security check points are being used, security staff are in no position to criticise pax for causing the queues.

[Rush2112]

Good post mate, we do all forget that not everyone is a frequent flyer. That said last week I was in the queue behind someone with a SIA Solitaire tag on his bag (you need to have flown 500,000 miles in Business Class to get this) and he still waited till he got to the front of the queue before getting his laptop out, liquids sorted etc.
Some pax do just switch their brains off when they get within a mile of an airport.

[27mm]

Both the previous posts make very valid points - what worries me (and a bunch of MPs, God Bless 'em) is the obvious security / safety aspect of hundreds of pax milling about groundside - last Sunday at STN was a classic example; not to mention the effect on non-frequent flyers - there were some clearly perplexed and distressed ones. Somehow we need to funnel pax through to security more rapidly, how we do this, I don't know - more check-in staff, more use of on-line check-in?

[PVGSLF]

27mm is correct. People 'try it on' with hand luggage because they have seen others break the rules or have got it away with it themselves. I have seen oversize hand luggage, I have seen heavy stuff that took 2 grown men to get into the overhead locker, I have seen people with 4 items of hand luggage excluding their duty free and so it goes on. If the existing regs were rigorously enforced the word get round and the problem would soon end.
I disagree with this. I regularly travel around Asia from my base in Korea. Every airport I have flown out of, without exception, sensibly applies rules on sensible amounts of hand luggage.
The system doesn't grind to a halt becuase I have taken a small rollaboard AND a laptop bag, there aren't endless queues becuase we forgot to put our contact lense solution in a clear plastic bag, in fact there aren't really any queues at all... why? - Becuase there are a lot of security points, with a lot of polite, courteous and sensible security screeners who seem to keep the whole thing moving smoothly.... And this isn't at the expense of security, becuase people are always pulled aside for a bag search if anything out of the ordinary is spotted, and the clear plastic bag rule is spreading around here too.
In short it is the ineptitude and greed of BAA that causes all these problems.

[MGzr]

Reading your dis-agreement to this new security measure, and the queues we now have to endure, working in this industry first hand- i have to say that our hands are tied and the airlines do get away with murder when it comes to one piece of baggage per person, i have yet to see any pax with one piece each

[10secondsurvey]

PVGSLF,

"In short it is the ineptitude and greed of BAA that causes all these problems."


Couldn't agree more.

[AUTOGLIDE]

The issue of passengers being slow to pack their liquids etc into the plastic bags promptly is an indication of how overly complex air travel has become as much as of how some people are maybe a bit dumb.
Air travel is supposed to be a convenience (anyone remember those days?).
Many people fly maybe once a year, and unlike frequent flyers are not accustomed to the exact amount of ml of liquids they can carry, or the exact maximum dimensions of a bag. They are there to travel to another place, not take an exam in security procedures. The problems are caused by the process, not by the people. If the process causes this much trouble then it is failing. It is no wonder people are avoiding air travel for trains/cars/ferries.

[bermudatriangle]

autoglide,your observation about some people being a bit dumb is spot on....a psychologist friend of mine explained the simplicity of human society and behaviour in the western,capitalist system....he stated that 90% of the population are thick and the other 10% rip them off,that's how the system works....just apply this to any human activity and you will concur with his simplistic statement.just observe humans at airports,in supermarkets,outside football stadia,etc.

[FlyerFoto]

This kind of 'super-thick' behaviour occurs everywhere people expect to put their trust in others hands - air travel, rail travel - you name it!

It's as if the fact that someone else is perceived as being 'responsible' means that they don't have to take any responsibility for their own actions - this is, after all, a 'let's sue somebody if something goes wrong' society, so why do they need to think?

AMS are giving plastic bags away, situated in many places throughout the airport, although, strangely enough, mainly AFTER security!

[PAXboy]

I recall the head porter at an upmarket London hotel saying, "When people walk into our hotel - their arms drop off. They cannot even pick up a newspaper on their own."

He told me that 28 years ago and it's as true as it ever was.

[Shack37]

Wow, having read every post on this thread I felt I had to add my own contribution. Nothing to do with the thread, just that posting here means you're intelligent because everybody else is a thicko who left his brain cell at home when he/she went to the airport.
BTW was that psychologist friend one of the 10% or one of the 90%?
MENSA anyone?

:ugh::ugh::ugh::ugh:

[glad rag]

I believe it's called "silent protest" and I don't blame them one bit, the whole security charade is designed to reinforce the control mentality of the current government.........

[glad rag]

PVGSLF,

"In short it is the ineptitude and greed of BAA that causes all these problems."


Couldn't agree more.

:D GR

[glad rag]

Perhaps if I was paying £XXXX a night I might expect the same although I would rather go and pick up my own paper TBH

[RevMan2]

BHX yesterday afternoon.
One is now no longer permitted to drop off passengers in the vicinity ( i.e. 3 full traffic lanes, each separated by a wide pavement) of the terminal.
It costs £1 to stop your car. (I was thinking of suggesting to Ms. RevMan that she applied the fast vehicle exit technique that she learned during her SAS training, but though better of it.)

And then - complying with the security instructions - I took off my jacket, removed my notebook from my carry-on, removed all metal objects from my person, only to be informed that I was only allowed one piece of carry-on luggage.

I looked at him and said "I'm following instructions. I am required to present my notebook separately and to take off my jacket. Please help me understand what I'm not doing correctly"

"Well, you'll have to put it back in your bag afterwards"
90% thickos? I'd say it's 99-and-a-lot-of-9s-after-the-decimal-point-percent at BHX

[10secondsurvey]

Revman,

Sad to say, I saw a similar thing at LHR not long ago. Guy in the queue, has small bag and laptop in hand. Told quite firmly, that as he can only have one item of hand luggage, he must put the laptop into the bag. Expressing consternation, he did so, only to be told a few seconds later at the check point to take it out for screening. Doh!!

It really is very difficult to take these security people seriously.

[27mm]

STN yesterday - welcome to the 3rd world: e-parking bus from Mid-stay - you know, one of the little ones that you really should be issued with ear defenders to ride in. Online check-in so avoided the terminal groundside scrum. Terminal is a good word for that place - not enough litter bins, so plant holders overflow with pax rubbish, the filthy, shabby toilets with their silly narrow access corridors that force people to barge past each other with their bags on the way in and out, etc. Fairly quick through security this time, having squeezed past the re-packing queue and the piles of discarded gear. Small hold-up while the staff discussed their pecking order for the next tea-break with their supervisor. Then past the shoe-checking machine Obersturmbannführer - why is there an extra machine for checking shoes, when we've already just been through a scanner? Stroll quickly and purposefully through the spending area, blinkers firmly on. Off the train at the first stop - one set of escalators still being mended (only a week, so far). Pitstop at the next set of matching toilets (see above) - down to one hand-dryer; attempt to report this to the cleaning staff, but they don't speak english as their primary language and whatever theirs is, it ain't mine. Maybe next week will be better......

[Al Fakhem]

Boarding a flight at KLIA the other day and passing through security at the departure gate (i.e. the second security check after immigration), I was appalled/amused to witness the following conversation between a hapless pax whose hand baggage had just been x-rayed and the security agent.

Security: "You have something inside bag?"

Pax (Indian labourer): "What I am having?"

Security: "You have something inside? Show me!" (Opens bag and finds tube of toothpaste).

Security: "This you cannot take, lah. Limit is 100 kilogram - this one 200 kilogram, lah" (while pointing to the 200 ml content declaration on the tube and squeezing it so hard that it becomes apparent that the tube is less than half full - i.e. within the 100 ml limit...........). Removes tube and throws it in bin.

How can we take this type of security seriously?

[Evening Star]

From the Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2141509,00.html) last Saturday. I particularly like the comment:

...as I later removed my shoes, recalling that the sole apparent justification for this was that one complete halfwit had failed to set fire to his trainers some years ago...

All very tongue in cheek of course. I mean, nobody would seriously suggest two tier security according to how lucky the passenger was feeling? Would they:confused:? Just a dig at risk adverse mentality, or rather I do not feel any safer because I wave a resealable plastic bag with my toothpaste inside when glaring gaps in security are obvious.

Some of the comments are equally interesting. The whole world can see the current security arrangements as the disruptive farce that they are, with such a level of disruption that by default it seems that the terrorists are winning. Unfortunately, the measures are in place and no government is going to back track for risk of liability if something then happens.

[graphitestick]

Ok! i haven't been on for a while and someone has probably already mentioned this but.. even today a pax had a bottle of brandy in their bag. When i asked if check in had asked about liquids he said yes. When i asked why he hadnt told them about the brandy he said"thats right make it seem like i'm in the wrong. anyway she wasn't specific" I asked how specific would you like them to be and got verbal abuse. People wonder why we have queues. I'm more worried that that pax can vote and serve on a jury!!!!!!

[Haven't a clue]

There's an article in today's FT under the headline "Ferrovial seeks quick Heathrow fix". BAA are quoted as saying 98 per cent of pax visiting Heathrow in July and August queued for less than 10 minutes to pass through its central security facility. We've heard this from BAA before but few reconcile this to their own experience.

I've been through Gatwick several times during August. I've been timing the trek through security. One constant has been that once past the boarding card check it takes me 10 minutes to get through security. It has taken between 5 and 15 minutes to get to the boarding card check.

So look again at the BAA quote. Are they being clever with words?

Does "pass through the central security facility" mean exactly that, and thus excludes the time spent queuing to get into the facility?

Given BAA's dreadful performance it smells of cheap spin to me.

[skydriller]

And then - complying with the security instructions - I took off my jacket, removed my notebook from my carry-on, removed all metal objects from my person, only to be informed that I was only allowed one piece of carry-on luggage.
I looked at him and said "I'm following instructions. I am required to present my notebook separately and to take off my jacket. Please help me understand what I'm not doing correctly"
"Well, you'll have to put it back in your bag afterwards"


Ive come across this too, at Gatwick - the idiots are not the pax...

Regards, SD..

[A2QFI]

I was thru STN around Mid-day last Tuesday and, having expected the worst, was agreeable surprised. I was hand luggage only and checked in on line so straight to security. slightly surprised that the shoe check is not compulsory! There is a central lane thru which one can walk freely and 2 taped off routes where you get your shoes off and have them Xrayed. Which lane you go thru seems to be a matter of choice! A bit over 5 minutes to get thru and no raising of stress levels at all!

Coming back on Wednesday there was a huge milling crowd at Passport control but, while I was waiting, they opened another 3 checking desks and I was thru in about 10 minutes, this was at about 1730 ie a busy time and beats the stated maximum time of 45 minutes to get processed.

I am thru again in 10 days and, while not looking forward to it, I am not too worried about a stressed up start to a week in Bavaria!

[Final 3 Greens]

graphitestick, who I assume is a 'skurity ofiser' displays the arrogance so typically seen at the security area in the UK.

Instead of taking a deep breath and being polite to a customer (no matter how irritating), a sarky question is asked and then s/he bleats about receiving 'verbal abuse.' Frankly his/her question strikes me as verbal abuse.

When will these people realise that the pax pay their wages?

As an expat who travels frequently throughout Europe, I only come across this attitude in the UK, security in France, Germany etc is efficient, polite and sometimes even humourous.

[FlyerFoto]

As Final 3 greens said...

'As an expat who travels frequently throughout Europe, I only come across this attitude in the UK, security in France, Germany etc is efficient, polite and sometimes even humourous.'

Strange that, isn't it, that we in Britain pride ourselves on having a sense of humour and being tolerant and yet the supposed 'miseries' in countries like Germany seem to be able to handle things much better?

I've visited quite a few European airports over the last few years and always found things easier than here - the one that springs to mind is all the messing about at STN to get a connecting Air Berlin flight that was at the NEXT gate - all because of the usual thing - why is there NEVER anyone to ask when you need someone??? :ugh:

[perkin]

Just to counter this whole British security people are w&nkers thing, I'd like to praise the people at MAN T1 who are almost without fail polite, courteous and often jolly. I've had occasional issues at AMS with extremely rough hand searches (almost complained to the supervisor on one occasion), and some pretty arrogant security personnel, but those seem to be a minority there.

The airport staff who really p!ss me off most in the UK are the miserable tw&ts they employ to check, sorry, glance at, my passport on arrival, who often cannot even be bothered to give an appropriate greeting for the time of day, or even say hello. And I thought we British were supposed to be good mannered...Their counterparts in AMS are most cheery and welcoming - they all carry firearms, so dont even really need to be polite to anyone!

UK immigration if you are reading - good manners dont cost anything!

[perkin]

Oh, and another thing, the security arrangements at airports like AMS where most flights are checked at the gate, seem to work much more smoothly than the way its done in the UK. But hey, you'd need to give some of that valuable retail space away to more room at the gates/pier areas if you did that... :rolleyes:

[larssnowpharter]

We were leaving the ewekay in June via LGW - with our 2 sproglettes aged 2 and 3 months - after our annual trip back to see family in friends.

The security team insisted on passing the bootees of the 3 month old through the x ray machine.:ugh:

[Avman]

Well I'm not Security myself, but contrary to Final 3 Greens, I can share graphitestick's frustration with the type of pax he/she gave an example of. If Brandy isn't a liquid what is it then? :ugh: If Final 3 Greens considers graphitestick arrogant, I would consider F3G a typical confrontational and just as arrogant type of pax.

I never have problems with security (touch wood) because I use my nut and fully comply with all requirements. Furthermore I make sure that I'm READY before I reach the security check point. It's so easy really.

It's mainly idiot pax who slow the process down - not the security personnel.

[nunki]

This is my first post whatsoever in this forum, and beeing a once-in-a-while-Pax, I don't have much experience. That's the reason why I will ask a question:
Happened to a Brazilian friend of mine, this morning at AMS. After check-in, he was caught in the queue for security check. He speaks some English, and when he became worried because time passed quickly with no visible advance in the queue, he asked someone of the ground staff if he could advance more quickly. The answer: You will have to wait till it's your turn, because everyone's in the same situation. And if he lost his plane? Don't worry, you will be put on another flight. The unlucky end: My friend lost his flight by three minutes, while his baggage was already under way on the plane bound to BCN. Asking the Transavia-Staff on the chreck-in, what to do? Well, buy another flight! This he did, but does really feel ripped of.
And he is not thick! :rolleyes:
Just a little unexpirenced and maybe a litle too well educated, because when other people simply passed the waiting PAX, he stayed in line and waited till it was his turn...
Well, finally my question: Has anyone experienced a thing like that and has he/she tried to do something about it and did he/she succeed and if, what did he/she do?

[SXB]

It's mainly idiot pax who slow the process down - not the security personnel.

That simply isn't true. The reason the security process is so slow in UK airports is insufficient investment in both infrastructure and personnel. As far as European airports are concerned the problem is largely only in the UK. Massive airports like FRA operate a much more efficient security service. Why ? because the owners have invested sufficient resources to provide an adequate service.

As for some of the comments regarding the security staff all pax are paying customers and therefore have the right to critisize the standard of service they are receiving, some security staff, not all, simply do not get this concept. If I walk into my bank after, idiotically, losing my card I do not expect them to call me an idiot, even if I am. I expect to be dealt with efficiently and be on my way as soon as possible.

[Final 3 Greens]

Avman

If Final 3 Greens considers graphitestick arrogant, I would consider F3G a typical confrontational and just as arrogant type of pax.

Thanks for your feedback, which I choose to reject in this instance.

As an FQTV it is not in my interests to have confrontations with anyone in airports, as it makes my travelling even more tiresome.

I support all that SXB writes.

Furthermore, despite some of the less than intelligent actions of my customers, I am well aware that they pay my wages and am always prepared to be helpful and polite.

If I did not observe crass actions by UK airport security personnel on a regular basis (usually directed at people who are obviously not regular travellers), I would respect them more.

No doubt there are some good people I am unfairly tarring with a bad reputation, but the frequency of crass actions is high enough for me to take a dim view of the whole bunch - with sincere apologies to the good ones.

[Avman]

I believe that most of us have to deal with the odd idiot here and there. I also believe that most of us are paid sufficiently well enough to remain tolerant, patient and polite with those odd idiots. Security staff process thousands of customers per shift (far more than bank staff). That will equate to a significantly larger proportion of idiots. They are paid peanuts. If you have an issue with the number of available security channels, take that up with the airport authorities. It's certainly not the security personnel's fault if they're short-staffed. I would just love some of you guys to have a go at doing the job for a month and see just how long you could keep your cool.

[perkin]

As I've already partly mentioned, I travel frequently through the top 3 busiest airports in the UK and have never encountered the alleged unpleasant security staff. Sullen on occasions, yes, but never nasty, so I'm slightly puzzled about this debate. I've experienced worse problems with the security people at Schiphol and the passport checking people in the UK than any of the security bods in the UK airports.

I would also support the accusation that it is often stupid people who delay the queues by not doing as requested and separating liquids, removing outer coats, belts, removing laptops from bags etc before their turn. The number of times I've been held up by idiots carrying more than the 100ml and arguing the toss, or people fussing with a laptop defies belief :ugh: However, it's the 'frequent fliers' with attitude I despise the most...I'm sure we've all come across them at one point or another!

[SXB]

Anyone who thinks that 'stupid people' or 'idiots' are responsible for the security delays at UK airports is not being realistic. Taking this view would indicate that the majority of people using UK airports are, indeed, idiots, since the UK is the only country in Europe which suffers from chronic security delays.

Avman
Security staff process thousands of customers per shift (far more than bank staff). That will equate to a significantly larger proportion of idiots. They are paid peanuts. If you have an issue with the number of available security channels, take that up with the airport authorities. It's certainly not the security personnel's fault if they're short-staffed. I would just love some of you guys to have a go at doing the job for a month and see just how long you could keep your cool

Regarding your comments about banking staff, maybe that is because their employers provide an adequate level of staffing and an infrastructure to match. Banking is a competative industry, unlike the running of the UK's major airports.

I have no wish to do a security job for a month, I'm sure most of them work extremely hard, just as everyone else does. But the fact of the matter is the security service being provided in UK airports is simply not good enough and offers poor value for money. As with many problems in the UK's major airports the blame lies with BAA's mismanagement.

[perkin]

SXB - I was actually referring to the idiots I frequently encounter at AMS (last time I looked it wasnt in the UK ;)) who almost without fail do not prepare themselves for the security checks even when politely asked to do so well in advance by a member of the security personnel in both English and Dutch. They DO cause un-necessary delays to an otherwise smooth passage through security and it frustrates the hell out of me as they often appear to be business travellers who really should have the brains to know better!

A point I touched on earlier is that the primary issue in UK airports is the arrangement of the checkpoints. To reduce congestion, the authorities should consider switching to a system such as that at AMS whereby the vast majority of passengers pass through security immediately before they board at the gate. This way, the thousands are reduced to an assortment of more easily manageable tens and hundreds, allowing smaller queues and (apparently, at least) much reduced waiting times as it forces sufficient numbers of staff to be on duty to allow prompt boarding. But as I said before, this is likely to result in valuable retail space being given over to additional space in gate areas...will this ever happen? I doubt it very much...

[Final 3 Greens]

Perkin

A central security system works very well at FRA.
The difference is that there is sufficient infrastructure and an appropriate staffing level to meet the requirements of the German authorities.

Avman

I am surprised that you are apparently acting as an apologist for the problem part of the security community.

Some people on this thread, many on others and a load of people in the media are reporting avoidable and unnecessary problems.

To consider any paying customer as a potential idiot seems to me to some up the situation; Shop assistants face the same challenges everyday and their employment would be terminated fairly swiftly if they behaved in the same way that some of the security staff behave.

Let me give you some personal examples to support my assertion

February this year, travelling on an F ticket from LGW. The airline provides a chauffeur service to get me to the airport without hassle. On arrival I encounter huge queues to enter the central search area, so I ask the first line of security if the fast track is open. He takes great pleasure (big smile) in replying that "we don't have enough staff to man it today, you will just have to take your turn with the others." It takes about 45 mins to get through - travelling F does not make you a better person than someone on easyJet, but it generally buys you a better level of service - not at LGW apparently.

July this year, T4, in the queue for 'Fast Track' security (only one of 2 lines open on Friday peak), which is taking ages. I am near the front of the queue and a lady arrives with 2 small kids to ask if she can go straight through, as she has waited so long she is in danger of missing her flight. Security woman replies that she should have allowed enough time. Lady replies that she was there over 2 hours before, but check in queues were horrendous and now security too. Security woman says she cannot intervene as it 'is up to the other pax.' I immediately let lady and kids in front of me and security woman glowers at me, then makes a comment to a colleague that 'there is always a soft touch who lets these people have their way.' Shop assistants do not abuse their customers, why should security personnel?

LGW again, earlier this year. As I enter the lanes leading to the central security area, a yellow jacketed youth stops me and objects to me carrying a laptop as well as a laptop case, saying I am exceeding the carry on limit. I point out the sign ahead asking people to remove laptops for screening. He then (apparently seriously) tells me to replace the laptop until I have walked about 10 more yards. To give a little context, I have managed to find a time at LGW (3pm, Weds) when there are very few people using the airport and am the only person entering security at the time.... so he wants me to stop, replace laptop, walk for 3 seconds and then take out laptop again? I regarded this behaviour as verging on the abusive and reported the incident to BAA, who said the (temp agency) person was interpreting the rules wrongly and apologised. However, it still happened and reading other posts I'm not the only one to experience it.

Manchester recently. An old couple are berated for not taking off their coats. These people are clearly not the sharpest knives in the drawer, as my old GP used to say about senility 'its God's way of protecting them from being aware of whats shortly going to happen.' Is it acceptable to treat old people in this way? If it happened in a nursing home, would it be okay?

Stansted (a couple of years ago, but have to include this one as its a belter.) I am traveling business class, but the airline has run out of Fastrack stickers. So the check in agent writes her name on boarding pass (which clearly says C) and underneath 'Fast Track.'

Security woman refuses to let me into Fast Track, saying 'for all I know you wrote that on yourself.' When I point out that the boarding pass says 'C', she says 'no sticker, no Fastrack, its the airline's fault.' As queues are very long, I go back to check in desk. Agent is amazed, so calls duty manager of airline, who escorts me back, as they still have not stickers. Then the mother of all rows breaks out between security and airline duty managers about whose fault it is. I am standing there speechless, just wishing to go through.

So Avman, whilst I understand your point of view and am not questioning your personal experiences, there are enough people saying, on here and in other places, that there is a problem for there unquestionably to be a problem.

Considering that the passenger pays for the security provision, the minimum s/he should get is an efficient and polite experience.

[daedalus]

The public can be forgiven for being extremely sceptical about the seriousness with which the UK authorities take security. What is happening at airports is ridiculous given the following true scenario:
Fast ferry Boulogne-Dover (50kts, one hour B to D).
Arrive Boulogne 8th August. Car with 4 pax and much luggage. Passports checked by UK lady at Boulogne. NO CHECK ON CAR OR CONTENTS (never has been, not even random - I've used this ferry many times).
Arrive Dover, drive straight off onto road system and M20. I could easily have filled the car with explosives and driven it straight into central London.
Coming back to France, each car checked at Dover, driver and pax asked to exit, luggage looked at,asked whether luggage packed onself and if carrying anything for anyone else.
Asked security chappie why there was a thorough check at Dover for exiting traffic, but none at Boulogne for traffic entering the UK.
"Ah yes sir, I know it may seem strange. Perhaps they'll get around to it in a year or two" replies security man.
When I get home, I look up the MI5 website and ring their public telephone number for security matters. Speak to MI5 agent!
as I tell him what is written above his incredulity mounts and he thanks me and says that steps will be taken.
I wonder if they have been? Anyone else been on this route more recently?
How can Joe Public take the UK government seriously when great gaping holes like this exist?
Why are 100 deaths in an aircraft worse than 100 deaths in a train, a tube or a London street?
On the one hand we have pilgrims to Lourdes being deprived of holy water because there's more than 100 mls of it or it's in the wrong shaped container,
On the other hand, fill a van with fertiliser and fuses and drive slap bang into central London, park in Whitehall or outside a very busy underground station and BANG!
:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[perkin]

F3G, interesting that central security manages to work at FRA. My overall impression is that a plane load at a time seems more manageable than a central check. It would be interesting to know the comparitive costs of central security vs checks at the gate, in terms of personnel/equipment requirements and queueing times.

Personally, I like the checks at the gate - another advantage of this is you distribute people throughout the entire airport complex and do no have a large 'target' close to the entrances of the buildings...However, gate checks do somewhat limit taking a bottle of water etc on board with you. Swings and roundabouts I suspect, but I do agree there is precious little investment or full utilisation of existing equipment in the UK.

MAN T1 has added an extra 3 or 4 lanes to the security and it has made a significant difference, last time I was there (27th Aug) all the lanes were operational and I passed through security in about 10 mins. They do seem to be doing things a little better at MAN than at the BAA airports...

[Avman]

F3G

Tad busy so a quick response. I was really only defending security personnel only where they are confronted with occurences such as the Brandy bottle example. I can sympathise with their frustrations. At the same time I fully sympathise with your frustrations especially your LGW occurences. I fly roughly 60 to 70 sectors per year. I'm lucky in that I do not have to use LGW nor LHR, both which seem to encounter a great deal of criticism. Based in Dutch Limburg, my usual departure airports are CGN, DUS, BRU and occasionally MST. The security process at all these airports is generally efficient. The only UK airport I use regularly is BHX which, again, hasn't caused me any frustrations (yet). Bottom line is YES there can be some real brainless security personnel, but equally there are quite a number of brainless pax who just seem incapable of following simple well advertised instructions.

I will continue to avoid LGW like the plague.

[SXB]

Perkin - I'm not convinced about gate security. VIE operates a mixture of gate and central security, dependent on which terminal you're in. Gate security there works well on the smaller aircraft but when it's a large one it's a very long queue, epsecially as they often combine the security check with a passport control check. Often the central check at VIE is quicker. The one big advantage of gate security is you can elect just to sit in the coffee bar opposite and wait until the queue subsides, as it will once the majority of pax have passed through. Obviously you can't do that with the central security.

Interestingly, that particular airport, VIE, introduced gate security in that terminal because the previous central security area was inadequate and there wasn't the scope to increase it's size without encroaching on the retail units.

One other disadvantage of gate security in a large airport is that it's sigificantly more expensive than central. Though at VIE they decided those extra costs would be less than the loss of income from retail units.

[tall and tasty]

On two separate business trips both intra EU the volume of pax waiting to go through security was increadiable. Alot of the airlines at our local Airfield now do include in any of your ticket details an item suggesting that you do not take any liquids or keep everything to size 50mls to save time. I went through on a night stop with everything I needed in my handbag including toothbrush paste, etc and then bought other items airside which was suggested by our hotac department.

But it is the travellers who do not travel often which is where the tour operators can help with as much information on line when pax do a booking and in the packs sent out to the paxs instructing them to follow the guide lines to make their travel less plesant.

But families do suffer with small children in these lines and that is where maybe the airport authorities need to re address the who issues.

TnT

[pacer142]

AMS has gate security, so the bags are largely past passport control but NOT past security. If you passed through two lots of security, you went in the wrong way.