Private site just outside control zone...whats the procedure?

[tegwin]

Now I know I will be told that my training wasnt very good, or that this question has been asked before, or that im a total fool...But I would really appreciate some advice from those who know....

Im kinda curious...and should I find myself in such a situation I would like to be sure im doing things properly

There is a private hotel with landing facilities(helicopters) just North of Cardif CTR zone really close to the published arival/depearture routes for Cardif...

Now, logic tells me that, should I want to make an approach to this hotel I should call Cardiff radar at a suitable distance, tell them my current location, altitude etc and give them my intentions (To land at said hotel) and tell them I dont intend to enter the zone....

Is that the correct thing to do, or, because im not actually going into the zone, can I just go in silently?...(illogical but possible)


Having made radio contact to Cardiff telling them im going into land, I presume I should then call them up and notify them when I lift and depart the area?

[BackPacker]

What does the AIP say, if anything, on this place, and what does the owner (assuming PPR) say?

Technically I think you could go in without speaking to anyone (except the owner perhaps), but I'd give Cardiff a call anyway. Just to declare your intentions and to let them know you're standby on their frequency?

[Mariner9]

No legal reason to stop you flying in and out without speaking to anyone. However Cardiff App are very accomodating and helpful, a call to them would certainly be in both of your interests.

[ShyTorque]

If it's outside controlled airspace then it's free airspace. I would just let them know, out of courtesy and good airmanship - in return you'll get a free flight information service. :)

[Bravo73]

What does the AIP say, if anything, on this place, and what does the owner (assuming PPR) say?


Blimey, you're at it again, Backpacker. :ugh: Why exactly would a hotel be in the AIP???

On certain levels, the world of helicopters is very different to the world of spamcans that you seem to inhabit.


As always, Shy has got it right. Technically, no you don't have to talk to anyone but common courtesy/airmanship suggests that you call Cardiff.

(Otherwise you'll just be another 'height and type unknown' 7000 traffic skirting the edge of controlled airspace. And don't we all just love those, eh?)



PS tegwin - how did you get on with your Hereford site? Have you been yet?

[tegwin]

Thanks for the replies.

If I do go to a private site near a control zone I will make an effort to talk to them and make sure they know whats going on....It cant hurt too much I guess...


Havnt done the site near Hereford yet, the weather has been craptastic! Im going that way tomorow so I might see what I can find out about credin hill and its surounding area of doom...:ok:

Chears for your help guys/galls

[Whirlybird]

Another reason to talk to them is in case you have any problems and end up inside their zone. Now I know none of us would ever do anything like that because we're all perfect, but it does happen. ;) And they're less likely to mind, or will warn you in advance, if they know who you are. Recently I had to find a house with a field just outside Lakenheath's ATZ. Well, it took me ages to find it. I was talking to Lakenheath of course, and had told them I was orbiting to identify my site. Ten minutes later, there I still was. :{ Couldn't find the damned thing. I was approaching their ATZ, and the lovely people cleared me to enter it in case I needed to. So that was some of the pressure off at least.

[jamestkirk]

First thing. No question is a silly or foolish question. If you are asking because you are unsure is a point of good airmanship and there are many out there who would not.

You helicopter jocks can sometimes fly in poor vis etc. A friend of mine is a heli instructor and he has told me about landing in pub car parks etc. Lucky buggers.

If you are near Cardiff, there is no reason why you could not ask them for a radar information service. They would probably appreciate the call because you are close to the zone and would give you some valuable traffic info. At the least you will get a FIS. I have used Cardiff a good few times and they are pretty helpful.

This would be good for you, especially if the viz etc is a bit pants. This is of course if you are not really low, re-inacting a scene from Airwolf.

I have often asked people to get a RIS and they have implied that the radar staion would not want to bother with us. Its not really the truth (unless they are very busy with IFR traffic) and should be maximised where possible.

And when you get airborne, give them a call again and ask for the same. Remember you can have a RIS if you are VMC or IMC.

Use your judgment on the weather conditions, give it a go and see what happens.

[chevvron]

It's always a good idea to call the nearest ATC unit. There's a guy who operates in and out of a waterpark about 12 miles away from my airfield. Doesn't need to call us, but he always calls for a windcheck prior to arrival; one day his call was different; he gave his callsign then added 'mayday, engine failure, landing at XXXX' We were able to scramble emergency services knowing roughly where he was. Nuff said?

[Mikehotel152]

I think it's a great question and just the sort of thing nobody teaches you at Flying School and the text books don't mention (because the Thai bloke who wrote the text book had lost his Norwegian to Japanese dictionary)...

I have loads of these type of questions but I shall keep them for a rainy day! :oh:

[md 600 driver]

out of interest which hotel is it

[tegwin]

Fair point regarding calling ATC incase of engine out....if its going to happen its most likley to happen off airfield where you are more than likley pulling more power on your approach/departure than you would on a field...




Its a place called Miskin Manor just North of J34 on the M4....

Stopped there a while ago on my XC qualifier with my instructor because Cardif was closed due to some muppet setting his plane on fire.... We were on the ground for about half an hour...its a nice place!

If your after a nice pub lunch and an amazing view...check out Lake Vrynwy Hotel.....:ok: They do the worlds most amazing burgers!


Oh, and if you fancy swapping your MD600 for my R-22, let me know:eek::}:*

[bladewashout]

I'm regularly taking off and landing about a mile south of the SFC upwards Luton Zone, and often have to take off towards the zone into wind then turn away, skimming the south SFC boundary. I never go through the zone as it's a lot less hassle to just go round.

The Luton radar must pick me up mode C, fortunately it's at 90 degrees to the runway direction, so won't interfere with take off and landing, but might conflict with people inside the zone.

I'd love to call in, but 129.55 is a busy channel, and they can't receive you from my location on the ground, I've then got maybe 60 seconds after lift off before I'm turning away from the boundary. That's just not enough to guarantee getting a call in during the ascent phase.

Any ATC people listening in could offer me a view as to whether a phone call to Luton ATC 10 minutes before lift off would be appreciated by them - they do seem to have an awful lot on their mind, and you can now just squawk the conspicuity code! I've previously taken the view that I don't want to add to their load. If Luton ATC's are listening in, even better (very nice, if busy, chaps and chapettes...)

Comments appreciated...

BW

[EESDL]

Miskin Manor v heli riendly and regularly used when cardiff heliport full on spec event days.

[Barnaby the Bear]

Sorry just to pick you up on a small technicality.
And when you get airborne, give them a call again and ask for the same. Remember you can have a RIS if you are VMC or IMC.
You can have a RIS if you are IFRorVFR.
You could still be IFR in VMC. :ok: