5%? 10%? 60%? For a pay raise?

[LOTW]

By what percent would you guess your next pay raise to be? 5%? 10%? 60%?

[greencandreaming]

What you hear from the Union leaks its more in the range of 2-3% , I am sure a insulting offer like this will only accelerate the resignation rate in the ranks . ( but of course there is no problem in the First Officer ranks resigning at the moment - yeah right ) .

[Fenwicksgirl]

I think we have seen it all before. I expect to be left dissapointed, i think in the order of 5-10% over a period of time will be ball park. Our biggest driving force is supply and of course the flood (??) of pilots leaving freighters. I think only the managers know how much that is all having an affect, we'll all soon see!!
Lets all hope that a decent offer comes on the table, i for one would like to stay here for quite a while longer but i have to also take a look at all the options that are becoming available to us back in our home countries, the gap has definitely closed!!

[badairsucker]

Fenwicksgirl

Totally agree, that gap is reducing, and when it gets a bit smaller I can see a lot of people packing their bags.:p

[sizematters]

well, it had better be significant, else a lot of people will be taking those "alternative offers".......................seems they have a chance to get it right now or the damage done will be irepairable.......................still, they no doubt think they still have the whip hand ........................so, stand by to be disappointed ...............................

[SMOC]

I see a Temp base has come out for -400 pax Captains to cover the NA 744F roster. Early signs :}

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

I suspect the sound of distant hoof beats will be heard before this mob think to close the gate!

Qantas pays significantly more. Emirates now pays more. BA and Virgin have had big payrises. Virgin blue is looking at paying their FOs around $150-160K to fly the 777 next year - we pay $120K for the Airbus. Even the LCCs pay more than we do now.

Pilots in the US majors are now in the process of negotiating back their huge pay cuts.

No wonder management want a deal. Maybe 1%/1%/1%. At least now we get some profit share...with the extra $6,000 I will be able to retire at least 14mins early!

I guess management rely on two things: pilot inertia and 'not my problem'. We whinge but we don't leave. And by the time we leave the managers will have their nice little promotion into swire bottling or something.

I am telling all would be applicants to take Qantas, Emirates or basically anyone else but CX. Time to command will blowout once age 60 or 65 comes in - and thats assuming you get past the star chamber. I haven't heard of any other airline that allows you to have 2 goes at the last check and then the star chamber fails you because of some non aviation related reason. But then I don't know how North Korean "Kim Jong Il" airlines does things so maybe there is more than one airline like us!

[badairsucker]

I hear you bro, but EK do not pay more than us. I looked into giving them a go and the pay is no way near enough.

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

They got a 6% payrise and HDP introduced recently. Since 2000 their pay has risen over 40%.
If you increase their pay to allow for our 16% tax then their FO salary ranges from $63-70K and CN pay ranges from $100K to $140K. This is ignoring their Exchange Rate Protection which pays up to 7.5% of your salary to allow for loss due to adverse exchange rate movements.
So, an SO gets $35K, JFO $55K, FO $65K and then after 10 years you finally get CN pay of $100K. In EK you start on $63K and then within 3-5 years you are on $100K+. Sounds like a no brainer to me!

So given that commands in EK are slightly less than CX (ie 3-4 years instead of 9 years) I think it is fair to say that you will earn significantly more in EK than in CX.

[Dan Winterland]

KA have just been offered 2%, but with changes to overtime which will actually leave the workforce worse off!

[Kane Toed]

So I believe the next step is for them to reject it out of hand, get a second offer that is significantly worse than the first one and joyfully vote in No 1?

[badairsucker]

ULR

EK pay 1st FO 20840 UAE dirhams per month...this equals 44340 HKD add 16% for the tax then it becomes 51434 HKD per month.
This also is ignoring their Exchange Rate Protection which pays up to 7.5% of your salary to allow for loss due to adverse exchange rate movements.

[Rice Pudding]

I wouldn't be too optimistic. Dragon Air have just been offered 2% this year, another 2% next year, in return for an increase in their overtime threshold !!
Do the math. As usual, now that it is part of the same big airline, they will find themselves contributing to the increase in productivity. It may seem like a pay rise initially, until they figure out that inflation over the last few years has already eroded their pay by more than this 4% figure, and that the company will effectively be gaining a lower hourly rate overall with the increase overtime limits.
Wonder what type of insult is in store for us ???
My guess is :
"A" scale salary, in return for 90 hours overtime threshold and 3 man ultra longhaul.
Then when you do the math you figure that A scale is only about 20% pay rise now to B scale, and that they will save more than this by the increase in productivity with 3 man ultra long haul and 90 hours threshold.
But who would vote for it you say ???
All the regional pilots who currently operate 2 man crew. All the freighter pilots who already operate 3 man crew.
But who would be that stupid you say ???
That's what you said about the second (and first) rostering vote. Go figure.

[Aussie]

Mate, you think QF pays more then CX when you factor in the 45% TAX they have to pay in Aus? Doubt it.

[Rice Pudding]

I see two CX F/O's have left for a left seat position with Korean, based in Sydney. Interestingly, Korea and Australia have a tax agreement, so Korean pays the tax in Korea and there is no tax demand in Australia. They are paying about HK$100k per month equivilent.
The pay is still better if you are HK based with CX, but if it's a Sydney base that you are after then Koreans' deal with week on, week off, looks very attractive.

[ayefore]

Mate, you think QF pays more then CX when you factor in the 45% TAX they have to pay in Aus? Doubt it.

Comparing apples with apples how do the Aussie based CX guys fare...they're paying the same tax right?

[404 Titan]

Rice Pudding

That is “NOT” what a tax agreement is about. A tax agreement is simply an agreement between two countries that allows someone to get a tax credit for tax paid in one country against tax owed in another. The arrangement that exists for Australians working a commuter’s roster for Korean Airlines is an arrangement that would most definitely result in one being classed as an Australian resident for tax purposes by the ATO.

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

Aussie,
at the 5 year mark in QF you would be say a 767 FO? You would be on about $140K+ pa. Even if you are on the 737 you will be on around $120K+. If you are in CX on a Aussie basing you will be a FO on about $120K pa. In the first 3 years in CX you will be on about $60-$80K pa AUD. I know the first 2 years of SO in QF are a little confusing but I assume you are on at least $80K+ - maybe closer to $100K?

At the 10 year mark if you are on the 400 as an FO you will be on in excess of $200K pa. If you are on a CX Aus basing as a CN you will be on around $200K pa. If you are in HKG you will be just under $200K AUD.

Its once you get command in QF that you leave CX for dead. Talking to mates , after the latest training plan command is at about 13years. That is with age 60(65?) in place on the domestic fleet. CX is still looking at changing ours to 60 or 65 which will extend our command time past current 9 years!

So yes I can confidently say based or not you are better off in QF than in CX financially!

Badairsucker
you forgot their HDP and profit share. They have averaged quite a few weeks a year. If you just assume say 4-5 weeks a year and say 75 hrs of HDP per month, then their salary jumps to 24,800Dirhams which is $52,900HKD after tax, or $62,900 before tax.

That is ignoring free housing as we can get that - ignoring ERP - ignoring free utilities - ignoring free transport to/from work.

So a CX expat going from $35K to $100K(monthly) over 10 years versus EK pilot going from $63K to $100K in 4 years - you do the math. On an annual basis and on a career earnings basis EK is far better remunerated. But then it wasn't always the case. 40%+ payrises over the last 7 years versus our ???? has something to do with it!

[cpdude]

I don't know what is going to be offered but I am pretty sure knowing CX, it will get a big fat "NO" vote from me!:ooh:

[badairsucker]

ULR,

Too many IF's and buts mate.

We also get HDP and profit share(ok that's a joke) plus a 13th month.

We also get housing that we can make money on, not quite the same at EK.

I would base my figures that are guaranteed each month, not all these extras that are at the companies discretion.:ok:

[19weeler]

Heres how a cx pay rise works for those new guys who weren't around for the last few.

4% pay rise minus 7% productivity gain equals= 3% pay cut.
4-7=(-3)

The proof is in the Dragon air offer!!

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

Bad Air Sucker,
OK. I will use your assumptions.
I have included the Annual Discretionary Bonus for CX even though it isn't guaranteed. I have assumed 84 HDP hours a month. I have ignored profit share as it will be about 2% a year for CX and profit share for EK has been averaging in excess of 10% but you want to keep it 'guaranteed'. I have assumed they only get 75hrs for their HDP and no overtime for either CX or EK but bear in mind their system pays overtime earlier than ours. ALso they can purchase a house using EK money just like we can.

They have RA 65 already, we don't. I have assumed CN in year 5 in EK( year 3 or 4 currently) and after 9 years in CX. I have factored up EK salary to allow for 16% tax.

Year 1
CX $406K (SO1)
EK $702K (FO1)

Year 5
CX $806K (FO1)
EK $1,107 (CN1)

Year 10
CX $1,241K (CN1)
EK $1,269K (CN6)

Now I have ignored ERP and a vastly superior profit share forumla for EK which could add up to 7.5% and 5-15% respectively. I have ignored CX profit share of 6days and $6,000 which is around2% and I have assumed ADB is paid forever when history suggests otherwise.

Badairsucker, you still think CX pays better????

Aussie, if you want I can do the same thing for QF - believe it or not, over the last decade CX has fallen way behind. Even allowing for an extra 4-5 years to command, QF pays more over a career!

[badairsucker]

ULR,

Whats the point of comparing a 1st year FO in EK with a 1st year SO in CX, some of our SO won't have the experience to apply for EK anyway.

Why don't you compare a FO with a FO and a Captain with a Captain. All of your calculations are assuming 10 years to command with CX, take the SO nonsense out of you figures that brings them a LITTLE closer to each other, 5 years as a FO then a Captain.


Anyway, can't be bothered with this any more, so if EK are such great payers, when are you leaving???????

[cpdude]

Badair,

I think the point is the hiring wage and what you make at year 5 and 10! Who really cares about stripes just pay!

Some of our SO's would qualify and some won't but CX doesn't really hire DE FO's to the pax fleet do they!

Besides, who ever said CX should pay the same as any other carrier? CX should pay MORE! Yes more for having to live in an unhealthy environment. That's what they used to do years ago when the top management wasn't so greedy.

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

Well for the last 11 years if you have wanted to join CX or EK you had to join CX as an SO and you joined EK as an FO. So it seems logical to compare what pay you would be on at particular year points. Qantas make you join as an SO. Should I compare QF FO salary versus CX? In that case QF pay way more than CX as you will get between $130K to $200K depending on which fleet versus what you get in CX which is about $120K at the moment.

So yes some of our SOs don't have the experience to join EK but most do.

CX FO salary is higher - but it takes you 4 years to get it(3 years as SO, 1 year as JFO). EK CN salary is lower than CX for the first few years but is higher than CX later as their increments are 3% per year. But if command stays the same in both airlines, over the first 10 years you are 25% better off financially in EK and after 20 years you are still almost 15% better off. But I would suggest the risk is on the downside for command at CX with RA60/65 which would lower career earnings at CX.

Why am I telling people this? SO that any potential new joiners know that EK now pays much more than CX, command is in about 4 years with RA65 whereas CX is 9-10years with RA55 and that will get worse if we do accept RA60/65 - caveat emptor.

Why don't I leave? Well because I have invested too much time in CX and I don't want to start again. It would also affect my commuting. So no I will stay here even though financially my conditions are deteriorating. But that shouldn't stop us from warning potential new joiners what is out there!

Bad air sucker, I just want people to know the facts. EK used to be the badly paid airline that had quick command as the attraction. Now they pay better than we do and still have quick commands! Dont know why you are off in a huff....are you in CX recruiting or management? Its important for us all to know what our competitors pay and conditions are.

[badairsucker]

Ok, So I am in a huff, possibly management or in recruiting...Man you have spent too much time commuting mate, take a week off.


Reading your posts reminds me of a funny line....


If my auntie had bollox she'd be me uncle.

[sizematters]

Well, if thats a funny line, it proves your management as they have all had their sense of humour surgically removed !!!!

[boxjockey]

Badairsucker,

Why are you so upset that some are pointing out the fact we aren't the highest paid pilots in the industry? This is great information for the people here and for those looking to join. I am more than qualified for EK, but I don't want to live in UAE. Many other of our SOs are as well. I know several people who were considering CX that no longer are because of many other good opportunities. Hopefully this will allow us some leverage in our pay negotiations, as I don't think anyone would argue with a payrise. Don't be so upset mate, go and enjoy a nice cold beer on this rare beautiful HKG day!!! :D

box

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

Bad air sucker
what is it about my posts that bothers you? I am just quoting the numbers, nothing else. If you want to be pissed off with me for pointing out that EK pay more than CX thats your prerogative.

At the end of the day pilots care about 2 things. When we get the window seats and how much we earn over a career. EK beats CX on both counts. Until a few years ago CX beat EK on career earnings! But EK has averaged 3-5% payrises a year whereas CX has averaged 0% a year since 2nd half of 2001.

I enjoy my job at CX - but I was lucky enough to join on A scales. I can't in good faith recommend this job to any aussie knowing what the alternatives are. In order for CX to be competitive it would take a 20-30% payrise for B scales. Not likely!

Badairsucker, you started off telling me my figures were wrong. So I quoted my numbers. You didn't like my assumptions, so I started taking out all pro EK assumptions and leaving in pro CX assumptions. After all that you just write off what I say as bollox and say you don't want to continue this irrelevant discussion. I am more than happy to compare numbers and facts with you or anyone else. I like to keep things logical and numerical as I find emotive posts don't lead us anywhere useful. If you would like any more info post here or PM me!

[Kitsune]

It's a no brainer that age 65 will be offered as part of the pay deal as if it is something for US, rather than a desperate attempt by management to shore up crew demographics. There will not be any pay rise that is in double digits, and even then it will be spread over several years, with an uplift in 'productivity' expected in return......:(

[badairsucker]

I am staggered that you all think I am in a huff and upset at this post, please look a bit closer at yourselves...CHRIST CHILLOUT.:ugh:


I never TOLD you your figures were wrong ULR, I just think that you put to much spin on your figures, i.e if this, but that, if this etc. I only posted the figures advertised on the EK website. Yes, I believe them to be different to the ones you stated.


Sizematters, That line is from "THE OFFICE", if you don't find that funny then I am afraid your sense of humour has left planet earth. Calling me management, ha ha very funny, whats next? Maybe some name throwing???


It goes to show the CX way of doing things are still going strong. I reply to your posts with facts and figures(straight from the company website) and and get accused of being pissed off and in a huff because I DARE to put my side of things into the pot....Naughty me,OFF now to tell myself off.:=

[Yeager]

This is just typical! A guy points out facts that does not suit the boysclub and hes being hammered down by jealous guys. Is it really so hard to accept the fact that there are other, and for some, better obtions out there? In this case we are actually only talking about money - on top of that comes all the soft values.. Thanks for the info URS. Good stuff. :ok:

[badairsucker]

Yeager,

I you are refering to myself, please inform me of what I am supposed to be jealous of???:{

Also, Yeager, saying "A guy points out facts that does not suit the boysclub and hes being hammered down by jealous guys"

Please show me the FACTS mate, not some random figures ULR has worked out and posted them onto a forum. The figures and FACTS are all on the EK website for ALL of you to see. Think for yourself, don't just jump on the bandwagon.

ULR, please can you bring to my attention when I have called your replies BOLLOX. :=

[BlunderBus]

you might all ask yourselves how 'far' does a dollar go in hong kong?..that should factor salaries downwards at least 20%

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

OK Bad air sucker,
I will try again. My numbers aren't made up.

From the website
Starting salary
20,840Dh
HDP35 per hour for FOs until the overtime threshold which varies but for consistency I have used 75 hours.
So 75*35=2625Dh
So if the guy works 75 hours he will get 23,465DH. USD:AED is 3.66 - using 7.8 for HKD gives a tax free income of $50K HKD or $59.5K in pre HKG tax income. Ihave taken out their 2-11 weeks profit share and up to 7.5% ERP to satisfy your need for 'guarantees'.

So in his first year an EK employee, based on website figures, will get $600K tax free or >$700K in HKD pre tax equivalent.

Sorry mate, I don't make numbers up. EK new joiners have enjoyed in excess of 17% payrise this year - but you won't see that on the website. 6% in Jan + their HDP = >17% for new joiners.

One more time for those that dont have CX blinkers on - EK have had over 43% in pay increases over the last 7 years! That is a FACT. No ERP - no Profit share. If I include those two items their pay is another 15-20% better than CX.

BAS, hit me with some facts and figures, not hyperbole and rhetoric.

When you say "reading your posts reminds me of a funny line...blah blah blah, etc BOLLOX" well, call me simple but to me that implies my posts are Bollox. Whatever....back pedal as much as you like mate. Prove to me that EK earns less please. Prove to me QF earns less please. I have spent a lot of time over the last few weeks finding out the opposite and would love to be proven wrong. I was very surprised to find out that EK is paid more. My first reaction was to tell my EK mates that had helped me in my analysis to let them pass on to potential new joiners how things stand today. I cannot argue corporate cultures as I don't know whether Arabic is worse than Victorian England or quaint olde Australian aviation culture. What I can tell any new joiner from Oz is that CX should be 3rd on the list after EK and QF.

Argue the math, not the man. Whatever pisses you off about me let it go. Tell me what you think I have got wrong with my analysis!? I am more than happy to put up slices and dices of my spreadsheet here but it makes for pretty boring reading and then I dont want to be accused of making up numbers again. By the way, most Aussies are getting the full 7.5%ERP right now. I have ignored that. Average PS has been well in excess of 4 weeks but I have ignored that too. So effectively to make your comparison I have discounted up to 17.5% of earnings for EK and yet EK still win! Happy now???????????

[energie]

i haven't been able to find any updated payscale for cx on the net, does anyone know the current payscale for SO, JFO, FO etc?

thanks in advance
E

[cpdude]

energie,

that's because it hasn't increased in 8 years or longer for some.:(

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

Energie, these rates have applied since 1/7/01
SO 1-4
$386,556.00
$432,960.00
$484,920.00
$543,108.00
JFO 1-2
$593,052.00
$664,224.00
FO 1-4
$771,180.00
$784,116.00
$797,316.00
$810,780.00
SFO1-6
$838,248.00
$859,668.00
$881,736.00
$904,452.00
$927,864.00
$951,972.00
CN 1-2
$1,180,500.00
$1,201,620.00
SCN 1-17?
$1,223,136.00
$1,245,096.00
$1,267,488.00
$1,290,336.00
$1,313,628.00
$1,337,400.00
$1,361,640.00
$1,386,360.00
$1,411,584.00
$1,437,324.00
$1,463,544.00
$1,490,316.00
$1,517,616.00
$1,545,456.00
$1,573,872.00
$1,602,828.00
$1,632,384.00

Doesn't include HDP nor ADB(annual discretionary bonus/13th month). HDP equates to about 3-5%. ADB has been paid every year but two. One year not paid at all, another year only half paid.

[Yeager]

Hmmm. Im actually quiet surprised about that EK deal as well.. I was under the impression that CX was still a better paydeal. Now, simply by a good post, I know better.
What speaks in favour of CX vs. EK is still Hong Kong vs Dubai and the basing obtion. If EK had basings, which I understand is planned, its obviously becoming a very, very attractive offer. Good news for new joiners and the industry in general. :ok:

[sizematters]

Background on Emirates Flight Operations
Career Progression and Rostering
Minimum Requirements
On-line Application Form
Selection Process
Reapplications – Policy Change
Retirement Age 65



Employment Packages



Captain Salary First Officer Salary


CAPTAIN SALARY:

Monthly Salary
Starting salary is Dhs 29,750 per month and is reviewed annually. (1 US$ = 3.66 UAE Dirhams). The salary is tax free.

Productivity Pay
For each block hour above approximately 78 hours per month, an additional Dhs 460.

Hourly Flying Pay
Flying pay will be paid for all block hours commencing from the first hour flown to the threshold level above which productivity pay will commence. The hourly flying pay rates will be Dhs 45 per block hour. For example, a Captain flying 75 block hours in a given month will receive Dhs 3,375 as Flying Pay.


ADDITIONAL BENEFITS:

Place of Employment
All positions are permanent and based in Dubai, one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the Middle East, well known for its wealth of fantastic shopping, sporting opportunities and a wonderful lifestyle.

Provident Fund
Emirates provides a company sponsored provident fund.

Company Contributions:
First 10 years - 12% of basic salary
After 10 years - 15% of basic salary

Entitlement on Resignation:
Within the first 5 years - no entitlement to Company Contributions - however an End of Service Benefit applies.
Between 5 and 7 years - the entitlement is 75% of the company's contribution.
After 7 years - the entitlement is 100% of the company's contribution.

Accommodation
We provide fully furnished accommodation (including water, electricity, gas and maintenance costs) or a housing allowance of Dhs 11,865 per month.

Transport
All transport while on duty is supplied by the company. Additionally, an interest free car loan is available for new joiners (Dhs 70,000).

Health Cover
Free health cover (medical and dental) for the employee. Generously subsidised health cover (medical and dental) is also provided for spouse and dependent children.

Employee Insurance Benefits
Insurance benefits for the employee include Loss of Licence Insurance (36 x basic monthly salary) and both Life Assurance and Accident Insurance (48x basic monthly salary).

Children's Educational Benefits
A generous education assistance package is provided for a maximum of three dependent children (between the ages of 4 and 19, in full-time school equivalent education). The revised allowances (effective 1st September 2007) are:

Primary School:
Reimbursement of 100% of the first Dhs 16,000 and 90% of remainder up to a limit of Dhs 32,000 per child per academic year.

Secondary School:
Reimbursement of 100% of the first Dhs 25,000 and 90% of remainder up to a limit of Dhs 50,000 per child per academic year.

Profit Sharing
The company has in the past few years paid a tax free profit share bonus for all employees, which is dependent on company performance.

Annual Leave
42 days per year.

Privilege Travel
Free air travel for employee, spouse and eligible dependant children once a year to the Annual Leave Destination. On other occasions, after a qualifying period, discounted travel is available.

Exchange Rate Protection Pay

This is a compensation mechanism in addition to the monthly salary which protects employees from monetary fluctuations due to the appreciation of home country currencies against the UAE Dirham (AED). Approximate monthly payouts for a sample group of currencies are represented in the following table, which is based on the exchange rates for December 2006. Actual payment in any given month would vary up or down depending upon the exchange rate of the given month.

Exchange Rate Protection Pay First Officer Captain
Starting basic salary in AED 20,840
29,750

AUD Australian Dollar 1,563
2,231

NZD New Zealand Dollar 1,563
2,231
CAD Canadian Dollar 1,563
2,231
GBP Pound Sterling 1,515
2,163

EUR Euro 1,563
2,231

ZAR South African Rand 183
262

BRL Brazilian Real 1,563
2,231




FIRST OFFICER SALARY:


Monthly Salary
Starting salary is Dhs 20,840 per month and is reviewed annually. (1 US$ = 3.66 UAE Dirhams). The salary is tax free.

On promotion to Captain, a pilot's salary is increased by ten steps. The minimum initial salary on promotion to Captain is Dhs 29,750 per month.

Productivity Pay
For each block hour above approximately 78 hours per month, an additional Dhs 325.

Hourly Flying Pay
Flying pay will be paid for all block hours commencing from the first hour flown to the threshold level above which productivity pay will commence. The hourly flying pay rates will be Dhs 35 per block hour. For example, a First Officer flying 75 block hours in a given month will receive Dhs 2,625 as Flying Pay.


ADDITIONAL BENEFITS:

Place of Employment
All positions are permanent and based in Dubai, one of the most cosmopolitan cities in the Middle East, well known for its wealth of fantastic shopping, sporting opportunities and a wonderful lifestyle.

Provident Fund
Emirates provides a company sponsored provident fund.

Company Contributions:
First 10 years - 12% of basic salary
After 10 years - 15% of basic salary

Entitlement on Resignation:
Within the first 5 years - no entitlement to Company Contributions – however End of Service Benefit applies.
Between 5 and 7 years - the entitlement is 75% of the company's contribution.
After 7 years - the entitlement is 100% of the company's contribution.

Accommodation
We provide fully furnished accommodation (including water, electricity, gas and maintenance costs) or a housing allowance of Dhs 10,565 per month.

Transport
All transport while on duty is supplied by the company. Additionally, an interest free car loan is available for new joiners (Dhs 70,000).

Health Cover
Free health cover (medical and dental) for the employee. Generously subsidised health cover (medical and dental) is also provided to spouse and dependent children.

Employee Insurance Benefits
Insurance benefits for the employee include Loss of Licence Insurance (36 x basic monthly salary) and both Life Assurance and Accident Insurance (48x basic monthly salary).

Children's Educational Benefits
A generous education assistance package is provided for a maximum of three dependent children (between the ages of 4 and 19, in full-time school equivalent education). The revised allowances (effective 1st September) are:

Primary School:
Reimbursement of 100% of the first Dhs 16,000 and 90% of remainder up to a limit of Dhs 32,000 per child per academic year.

Secondary School:
Reimbursement of 100% of the first Dhs 25,000 and 90% of remainder up to a limit of Dhs 50,000 per child per academic year.


Profit Sharing
The company has in the past few years paid a tax free profit share bonus for all employees, which is dependent on company performance.

Annual Leave
42 days per year.

Privilege Travel
Free air travel for employee, spouse and eligible dependant children once a year to the Annual Leave Destination. On other occasions, after a qualifying period, discounted travel is available.

Exchange Rate Protection Pay

This is a compensation mechanism in addition to the monthly salary which protects employees from monetary fluctuations due to the appreciation of home country currencies against the UAE Dirham (AED). Approximate monthly payouts for a sample group of currencies are represented in the following table, which is based on the exchange rates for December 2006. Actual payment in any given month would vary up or down depending upon the exchange rate of the given month.

Exchange Rate Protection Pay First Officer Captain
Starting basic salary in AED 20,840
29,750

AUD Australian Dollar 1,563
2,231

NZD New Zealand Dollar 1,563
2,231

CAD Canadian Dollar 1,563
2,231

GBP Pound Sterling 1,515
2,163

EUR Euro 1,563
2,231

ZAR South African Rand 183
262
BRL Brazilian Real 1,563
2,231

Get your applications in Now boys before the 2% insult is finalised !!!!

[badairsucker]

ULR,

I think we are going to have to agree to disagree.

But just a point regarding your last post. You wrote. "When you say "reading your posts reminds me of a funny line...blah blah blah, etc BOLLOX" well, call me simple but to me that implies my posts are Bollox. Whatever....back pedal as much as you like mate".


Now,
shall I call you simple!!!!!!, the line is a play on WORDS, it means too many if's and but's. Just because it has the word BOLLOX in it does not mean I am calling your posts BOLLOX. Back peddling, no not me.

Also "Prove to me that EK earns less please. Prove to me QF earns less please"

Please read my posts again, I have never asked any info regarding QF.


Please stop putting words into my mouth...Thank you.

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

BAS,
yes we will have to agree to disagree. When X(EK salary and career earnings) is a number bigger than Y(CX salary and career earnings) and you continue to assert the opposite, we will disagree.

Too many ifs and buts????? I took out ERP, I took out EK profit share. All I left for EK was basic salary and hourly pay(like our HDP) at 75hrs. I did leave in a couple of ifs and buts in the CX equation - like a full 84hrs HDP pay and full 13th month every year - is that what you meant when you said too many ifs and buts??!!

BAS, since you dont understand my maths, you probably believe management when they say RA60 will speed up time to command too!

[badairsucker]

Yawn.......

[jed_thrust]

Nice stuff, ULR.
Sometimes you can't win, but I appreciate all the crunching that you have done on those salary numbers. It has certainly opened my eyes and I hope the eyes of many others!
Keep up the good work...

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

Here's another interesting fact. Apart from the annual payrises that EK have given over the last decade, they also have 3% increments. Once you are a CN in CX we have 2% annual pay increments.

Ergo, just to keep up with EK increments CX will need to offer a 1% a year payrise from now on. Thats assuming EK don't have any more payrises again!

So whatever gets offered, remember to subtract 1% a year just to equate it with normal EK increments. EK has been giving annual payrises around 3-5%+ a year for the last few years so really CX would need to pay 4-6% a year to mark time and substantially more to actually recover lost ground since 2001.

Yeah I can see that happening - NOT.

[Saturn]

I do not see us (CX) losing many if any to EK. From what I have read and heard, it is not a great place to work and IT IS IN THE MIDDLE EAST! They could pay millions and I would not go. Also, we have at least one EK captain who is an S/O here. WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU! They have to rasie the pay and they are still having trouble getting and retaining crew. :p

[ULRequalsSLEEP]

He is now a DEFO, and by the way, over a beer, ask him what he thinks of our training system versus EK's. He was a C+T over there but wanted to get back to OZ.

Thats one that come our way - any idea how many have gone the other way? I am not sure but I know I met an EK CN in 2002 who had left CX in 1998 as he was so pissed off. Would be nice to know actual flow either way.

Middle east is good for poms and no worse for canucks than here. Much worse for aussies though!

They lost almost 100 guys last year. Work rate on the bus was close to 900hours but is likely to be closer to 700hours this year(CX is targetting close to 700). They subsequentely had 17% payrise for new joiners this year. It will be interesting to see if the reduced work rate and increased pay reduces the turnover.

CX workrate has increased from 590 to 690 since last pay negotiations and we have had no payrises.

So in summary
EK - workrate reduces more than 20% gets 17% payrise,
CX - workrate increased almost 20% get no payrise!

So I have no problem expecting a big double digit payrise from CX.

"Tell him he's dreamin"