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Captain Smithy
18th Jun 2007, 06:42
I learned a valuable lesson during yesterday's flight. No doubt it's a lesson that we've all learned at some point or another but as a low-hour student I thought I'd share my experience and my thoughts.

We (my instructor and I) left Edinburgh at around 1300 and proceeded North on the Kelty VFR lane. Shortly after passing Kelty and heading towards Balado Bridge (spelling?) at about 2500 feet (just under the cloud base) I spotted what I thought was a Jodel - could be wrong though - off the port wing and around 500-1000 feet below us. I was lucky to spot him since he was under the port wing, I had to lean forward to see him, and my instructor obviously had no chance of seeing him from his position. The other traffic spotted us however and he passed harmlessly behind us, doing an S-turn.

Being close to Loch Leven and the gliding club there we then turned West towards Dollar. It was then that I spotted the glider - suddenly appearing off our port side, just tickling the cloud base. I don't know how close he was, perhaps less than a mile away? I wasn't sure. Nonetheless we had visual, I presume he could see us too, but then again never presume anything! Again we both passed each other harmlessly.

My instructor pointed out that I did well to spot the traffic in both circumstances, and that this reinforces the importance of a good lookout. Too right. It's amazing how the glider seemed to "jump out" all of a sudden - of course, he didn't, he was there all along, but we didn't see him initially! I can now see how accidents can happen in similar circumstances. Okay so we had our strobes operating but even then there is no guarantee that you will be seen. I can also appreciate how difficult it must be to spot traffic if you are spiralling in a thermal, and I can see the sense in why powered aircraft must give way to gliders.

Valuable lesson indeed.:ok:

P.S. Off-topic but I spotted a rather nice Cirrus SR20 on the Business Av. Ramp at Edi yesterday afternoon... can't recall the registration but very nice.

Smithy

Sedbergh
18th Jun 2007, 07:16
Smithy
curiously enough, I find that it's generally easier to spot other traffic when turning in a thermal. The whole horizon is going past and a full scan is more comprehensive than when flying straight. Gliders are blessed with audio variometers (VSI's) to avoid the pilot having to look inside the cockpit when thermalling and the training is very heavy on maintaining a lookout.
Similarly it's much easier to see a turning glider because you get a full width wing flash at least twice per turn - it's the ones coming head on that are B***** to spot.:uhoh:
But I don't think I've ever seen the strobes on a powered aircraft before I've seen the a/c itself.

Captain Smithy
18th Jun 2007, 12:35
Sedbergh,

Thanks for your input, funnily enough the glider was turning at the time which I presume helped catch my eye. I never gave the Audio Variometer a thought either... I thought circling would require much concentration but I stand corrected.

Thanks for your comments!

Blinkz
18th Jun 2007, 12:43
Being a glider pilot and a powered pilot I know the differences between the two. As has been said, glider flying really is totally focused on the outside world, you might have the odd glance at the ASI and altimeter but generally you don't (the most important bit of kit on a glider is a piece of string ;))
I actually did all of my glider flying out of Portmoak (the gliding site on the edge of loch Leven) they are a very busy club and you'd do well to keep well away. So many idiots have been coming out of Fife airport and buzzed straight over the site at 2000ft whilst winch operations are in effect. As has been said unless a glider is turning they are generally very hard to see, and depending on what they are doing can be going pretty quickly (its common for gliders to fly close to Vne when going between sources of lift and then slowing right down to get the most of the lift) I used to go to east and just cross the Leuchars MATZ, since gliders won't be there. However you have to be a little careful, if you have an westly wind the you can get a lot of sink coming off the back of the hills. On one occasion (in FH as it happens!) we were nearly at full power trying to keep level as we crossed them MATZ

High Wing Drifter
18th Jun 2007, 13:27
Also, white is simply the wrong colour for aircraft with see and avoid scenarios.

Blinkz
18th Jun 2007, 14:32
very true, but the gel coat for the glass gliders have to be white otherwise it gets damaged......I've been told. My old uni gliding club had luminous yellow gliders, much easier to see :ok:

RatherBeFlying
18th Jun 2007, 14:41
If you do see one glider circling, look for his buddies above and below.

As before mentioned the audio variometer helps keep the eyes outside the cockpit and there are days I spot just about as much low level turbine traffic as I do other gliders:uhoh:

Then there's the g/a aircraft that blast through our pattern at circuit height, even though our field is marked on the charts:mad:

Gliders also have the tendency to climb up to cloudbase before scooting off to the next good looking cumulus (or wisp if that's all there is).

BHenderson
18th Jun 2007, 15:03
I also learnt my lesson when a Chipmunk did a loop about 50-100 metres off the port wing at the same level. I was in a C150 so I lost sight of the aircraft behind the wing for a second or two whilst I violently rolled the aircraft to remain visual. LARS said nothing, both aircraft transponder equipped and on same frequency. On speaking with the pilots they stated they got quite a fright when they saw me at the top!

This is one of many stories.

Dan Winterland
18th Jun 2007, 15:04
Want to see something scary, then have a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_JAg1ZedGo :eek:

What you see is an aircaft hitting the towrope of a tug. Luckily, the glider has already released, so there's not a collision between airframes. Even luckier, the pilot has a ballistic recovery chute - which he uses to great effect!