Elstree Aerodrome

[sheesh123]

I am looking to start flying and obtaing a PPL. The nearesr place is Elstree which is just 5 minute drive. I took a test flight at cabair elstree and went pretty well.

However the prices are steep, works out to be about £10,000 for everything. Is it worth doing and are there other schools in Elstree aerodrome?

[wbryce]

£10,000? most PPLs in the UK will cost 5-6k. How did you work out the 10k figure?

[ultimatepro63]

Try Firecrest aviation, had a trial flight there and they are great !



They are in a big blue hangar which should have a sign saying firecrest aviation on the side. :ok:

[sheesh123]

I got the figure from their package deals and included prices for extras and 5 extra hours.

AreFirecrest aviation good?? i know they are much cheaper but are they better than cabair?

[pumper_bob]

Have a chat with Fly Team aviation, in the foot of the control building just infront of the club house/bar!. Much better value than Cabair.

[sheesh123]

do fly team have better instructors than cabair?

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

flyteam only hire from Elstree

they train from Cranfield

Cabair are young journey boys .........
I did my PPL with them in the 90s and went through several instructors as they are mostly out to gain sufficient hours until they can join an airline.
The last one (he was also the most mature but he went off to fly for fly-be after having been the Sunday Times cricket correspondent) was the best.
Flyteam - you get mixed reviews about them. You either like Amir or you don't. Personally I like him a lot. But he has a strong character and puts up with no bull. Might not be everyone's cup of tea.......

if you do go for cabair, you may pay more than elsewhere, but you will get your PPL. If you don't mind going to Cranfield, then I would chose Flyteam.

[pumper_bob]

Sorry i forgot Flyteam only hire from Elstree, thats all i use them for:p. But i must like their particular variety of tea, as i find them great blokes. Sheesh123, if you do a thread search i think you will be able to find other opinions of Cabair instructors, you will most likely find they generally confer with D SQDRN 97th IOTC. Firecrest use the Flyteam chap to do there exams i think? Anyone like to confirm or otherwise?

[FlyingForFun]

Flyteam - you get mixed reviews about them. You either like Amir or you don'tDefinitely put me down in the not liking him category.

No personal experience of Firecrest, but based on reputation they are the only school at Elstree I would hand my money over too.

FFF
-------------

[ultimatepro63]

I still think maybe your best bet is Firecrest. The instructor i had was superb and very helpful. :ok:

[sheesh123]

what do you mean by "D SQDRN 97th IOTC"? Is that a good thing or a bad thing?

when doing a search about cabair elstree i found opinions half which were positive and half negetive so not too sure.


who has used Firecrest and what do people think of them? why do you think they are better then cabair?

Is there any problems with using many instructors as i know cabair do?

[stickandrudderman]

Cabair has a very "corporate machine" feel about it.
There's nothing wrong with the instruction or the aircraft per se, it's just that learning to fly with them wasn't a great deal of fun (JMHO).
Other places I've been to since have had a much more friendly feel about them, but then again I'm just not a corporate animal.
Maybe you'll like it that way?
Are you on a greater journey of some kind, or just out to have fun in aeroplanes?
If the latter I'd look for the school that has the more interesting kit, rather than the usual Cessna/Piper stuff.

[sheesh123]

Im not on a greater journey than to get a PPL and just have fun with aeroplanes.

I am looking for a place with a friendly enviroment and somewhere to have some fun. I will go and check out firecrest and see what happens.

[Finals19]

Flyteam - you get mixed reviews about them. You either like Amir or you don't

Strong charactered is a nice way of putting it - if he gets a bee in his bonnet about you, you'll be on his black list and you're pretty much done. Now that doesn't really seem right does it, when you are the student / hirer and the company are taking your money.

Firecrest seem quite laid back and approachable - definitely worth a try. Cabair are expensive in comparison.

[sheesh123]

doesnt seem to be many people who have used firecrest in elstree. what do people think about firecrest?

[Hamish 123]

I did my PPL with Cabair in Elstree, getting by licence in February. While there are obviously a few instructors hour building there, others who have been around a good while. It took me about 18 months to get my licence, and during this time, I only flew with 3 instructors - one due to a circuit check prior to a solo navex, while another was an hour prior to the GST. I may not have been typical, but I basically did all my training with one bloke. Mind you, he's now flying with the airlines . . . however, there are still some cracking instructors there.

Cabair seems to have a bit of an unfavourable reputation, but they did fine by me.

[shy_one]

Shy_one is not a fan of Flyteam or its CFI. I don't believe Elstree is a good place to train due to its silly circuits and its one very grumpy FSIO.

Why not travel a bit further and get a better environment in which to train.

[east_sider]

Try Stapleford www.flysfc.com (http://www.flysfc.com) not far round the M25. I'm learning there, quality of training is excellent.

[AC-DC]

I like Amir, he will teach you until you got it and will never let you off if you are not safe. The aircraft are fine albit not as shiney as Cabair's. As for Firecrest all I can say is that they are good people but as I never flew with them I can't say much more.

Cabair are professional and has large fleet of aircraft, therefore they always have another aircraft to give you if the one that you had to have went tech. smaller schools might send you home even if it is a nice day. Cabair are expensive but it is only you who can decide if you are willing to pay the extra money or not. I never flew with them so I can not attest to the standard of instructing.

[sheesh123]

thanks for your opinions.

Why would smaller schools send you home even if its a nice day? surely they want the customers so would only send you home if they had to?

[LondonJ]

If a plane needs to go in for maintenance and the fleet isn't large then there might not be a spare plane available.

I trained at cabair. It's very professionally run but very over-priced. For example they charge you landing fees in addition to the usual fees when all Elstree based aircraft are exempt from landing fees!

The instructor I ended up with was truly excellent. But I went up with 3 - 4 other guys for various reasons. A couple were truly awful, not much older than 21 with a virtually no instructing time. As long as you can find a good instructor and pre-book with him/her well in advance you should be fine.

Personally I would in retrospect have gone with Firecrest.

Overall though, Elstree is a good place to learn. Very busy GA field, fairly difficullt runway (undulating with a slope) and complicated circuit patterns for noise abatement. Add on that it is right on the edge of London's TMA and you certainly won't feel out of depth after you qualify and want to go explore other places.

[VFE]

Have a trial lesson at Firecrest and then you can compare the two schools. Be sure to tell them that you are going to be doing a PPL.

VFE.

[LateFinals]

I learnt to fly at Elstree, my instuctor said that with all the problems documented ( odd circuits, shortish non-flat runway, tight TMA's), everywhere else would be easier to fly into which is certainly generally true. I think Firecrest generally have better instructors than Cabair who have a corporate expensive manner about them with lots of hour-building "waiting for a proper job" instructors.

Elstree is very friendly, unless a certain individual is on duty in air traffic....

LF

[VFE]

Out of interest - has anyone ever approached the 'certain individual' in the control box about his attitude? I have often tried engaging him in some jovial conversation when showing my face around the place but it's like piddling in the wind! What is his problem exactly? Maybe someone should print off this thread and post it under the door....

VFE.

[Hamish 123]

As has been pointed out in earlier posts - if you can cope with Elstree's location, runway, circuits and FSIO when you're learning, it's gotta be beneficial in the long run!

[Gertrude the Wombat]

if you can cope with Elstree's location, runway, circuits and FSIO

You lot trying to put me off?? - I was planning to fly in there tomorrow, weather permitting.

[robin]

I use Elstree a fair bit, mainly cos relatives live nearby.

My own experience has been nothing but excellent. I've never had a problem with any of the things mentioned here - not even the 'certain individual'. Quite the contrary - they have been extremely helpful.

My only issues with Elstree are that it is rather crowded and could do with a facelift.

[noisy]

I learned to fly with Firecrest. No, they are not as shiny or corporate as Cabair, but they are lucky to have a number of excellent instructors. I was able to stay with one instructor from first lesson to test. At the end, when I was struggling a bit with PFLs, they were flexible enough to let me go with another instructor for a few hours.

Amir from flyteam sets some of the exams - he is the boss. Make you no mistake. I didn't have a problem with this.

As for Elstree itself, it's a bit of a nuisance. It typically takes six minutes to make the southern circuit, which is probably longer than many airfields. By contrast the northern inner circuit will push you for time when you are learning.

[sheesh123]

noisy, if u were to look back and choose between cabair and firecrest to do your training which one would you choose?

[D SQDRN 97th IOTC]

he is unbelievable

a more grumpy and less helpful person you are not likely to meet

[noisy]

Sheesh123,

I would choose Firecrest over Cabair any day of the week. No question. That said, I was never a student at Cabair! I do not doubt their professionalism, but definetely agree with Emma that a mature instructor is a good idea.

Best,

N

[pchappo]

if you dont like elstree, try denham - www.egld.com - there is cabair there as well as a VERY good company called The Pilot Centre.

[Finals19]

Agreed, Denham is good and The Pilot Centre is a friendly enough place, although their availability on the PA28 fleet is quite tight in the summer.

As for the FISO service at Elstree. Its a small box with an even smaller man in it. Not too much to worry about really, just give him the minimum required RT calls for ground movements. Otherwise, its "at your discretion" and don't let him make you think otherwise....! :ok:

[trident3A]

Hi there,
I'm going for a trial lesson with firecrest this week. I previously had a lesson with cabair and found the equipment and the instructor very good but the price quoted for the PPL very high, and the instructor was only part time. Anyone currently doing PPL at firecrest care to comment on these guys? I've read varied reports on here.

Many Thanks

[Sir George Cayley]

Showing my age and going back a few years one of the voices on Elstrees radio was affectionately know as "The Meekong".

Pete Woods was there about the same time as well as Masefields Supa Dupa Chippy.

I got a b***ll**king once for turning onto finals too tight. No-one else in the circuit and a glide approach to boot.

Never been back and hopefully never will.:ok:

Apparently the owner is 120 years old.:eek:

Sir George Cayley

[Oldpilot55]

I thought Elstree was shabby on my first and only visit. No complaints about friendliness but where does the money that folk pour into it go?
Grass areas soft and unusable but still used for parking.

[A and C]

Cabair will charge you a lot of money for the same product that you can get at Firecrest for 75% of the price.

Don't let the potted plants and the instructors dressed like south american dictators fool you, the only interest they have in you is your money.

Firecrest may not have the gloss of cabair but they look after the aircraft and give good value for money.

[Aerodynamik]

Just to add to your confusion I could recommend the Lion Flying group at Elstree. It is run/owned by Jose who is a very experienced instructor. They have a well equipped and looked after C172 and and access to, I think, a C150 or Tomahawk.

[trident3A]

Thanks for the info. Firecrest sounds like the better bet for me all told - having my lesson on Fri.

[felixflyer]

I heard that anyone giving instruction at Elstree has to pay Cabair £20 per hour. If this is true i dont see how anyone can be cheaper than Cabair. Yet Firecrest is still cheaper.

Goes to show how much mark up there is.

[IO540]

The owner may be 120 but I am sure he is smart enough to own shares in all UK prop overhaul shops, judging from the amount of gravel on the runway and elsewhere.

Why doesn't somebody get a broom and sweep it up?

[felixflyer]

They would have to pick up all the dog s*#t (s@*t) first!

[Will Hung]

Who remembers "The Screaming Skull" ?

[Peers Carter]

Be very careful in paying up front for a PPL course,especially at the present time!

[rgsaero]

I learnt at Cabair 19 years ago and have not flown with them since as they are just too expensive. A friend has been trying to learn to fly a helicopter with them buit about 50% of his lessons were canecelled to to unavailability of machines or instructors!

I have two friends who are learning with Firecrest and are very happy, and Flyteam no longer exists after Disley became involved.

Declaring an interest, I have an aircraft at Elstree and in spite of the fact that it's (Elstree - not the a/c!) a bit tatty in places it's friendly and compared to other places quite cheap.

It's all about chemistry. Give Firecrest a try and if you like them go for it, and pay for say ten hours at a time.

[madlandrover]

Declaring an interest, I have an aircraft at Elstree and in spite of the fact that it's (Elstree - not the a/c!) a bit tatty in places it's friendly and compared to other places quite cheap.

I suspect it may be one of these airfields that is fine if you're based there and you know the moods - it is however for visiting aircraft a complete contrast to the extremely friendly West Midlands airfield I work from and have my own aircraft based at. Nothing especially wrong with Elstree, it is after all a working airfield, but it's hardly one of my favourite destinations. On the bright side, easy taxi access to Watford Junction (£15ish), came in very handy this summer when I was ferrying twins in & out of Elstree on a reasonably regular basis for private owners.

Yes, the FISOs are a bit grumpy - but then a FISO should never be confused with an ATCO, it can be a very dangerous step for a FISO to offer too much. And they definitely don't... Landing fees seem to vary a bit - quite fair with a cash payment, but double the price for a debit card payment. Parking charges are very reasonably though, under £10 a night for a twin, fairly close to London. On the bright side, the fuel bay staff are friendly and helpful - even when pumping annoyingly precise quantities of filthy Jet A-1 into various tanks stored around the aircraft...

In summary: very definitely not somewhere I'd choose as a destination myself, but I'm happy enough to fly in & out when someone else is paying!

[gooneydog]

I remember Pete >>. AND the "screaming skull" Good old days when there were a few dayglow ex oxford 140's about Anyone still around from those days????

[AC-DC]

Yes many.

Now I was told by the s/w that the answer was too short and that I have to write a bit more.