BA currently recruiting Military pilots - until 31 May 2007

[MrBernoulli]

Thought some of you folks might be interested in the following, taken directly from the British Airways recruitment website at www.britishairwaysjobs.com (http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com)


"Managed Path/RAFCARS (Service Pilot Hold Pool)

Ref UKLHR350
Region UK - Heathrow
Location London - Heathrow
Category Technical & Operations

Job Description
Closing Date: 31st May 2007
The Managed Path/RAFCARS Scheme is for experienced high calibre Military pilots who want to develop their careers with one of the most progressive international airlines in the business.

Requirements
Minimum of 1500hrs on any MOD service aircraft.
Member of Managed Path or RAFCAR schemes.
You must be within 2 years of your immediate pension point or exit date.

Skills, Knowledge and Expertise
At the point of application there is no requirement to have an ATPL, however an ATPL or 'frozen' ATPL will be required prior to the offer of a pilot contract.
You will be current on any MOD service aircraft.
You will need a first class flying record and a good level of physical fitness.
Demonstrable evidence of leadership, intellect, determination, reliability, high personal standards, motivation, flexibility, well developed customer service skills and teamwork.

You as a Person
Physically fit and meet the requirements for the issue of a JAA/CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airways’ medical criteria for employment is of a higher standard than the CAA requirement.
Height between 1.57m (5'2") and 1.91m (6'3") with weight in proportion to height (height is accurately determined during the assessment process). Qualified pilots who are taller than 1.91m may submit an application but will be required to undergo a functionality check to confirm their ability to meet the requirements of the seating positions in the British Airways fleet of aircraft.
Spoken and written fluency in English."


No, I am not a recruiter for BA.:rolleyes: This is nothing more than a friendly pointer for those of you who have had enough of the nonsense, trivia and desert!

This link should take you right to the page:
http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/baweb1/tpl_ba01.asp?s=UziKhNSpCaRDiFfRax&jobid=20383,9848985688&key=5249933&c=142334127887&pagestamp=sehiolredmneytqbyh

Come on people, its got to be worth a sniff! You don't even have to (yet) have the ATPL!

[LFFC]

The only problem with the Managed Path/RAFCARS and joining BA is the time it takes with them to get a command. If you leave it until age 38/40 to leave, you used to be almost too old to get a BA command by the time your name reaches the top of the list. Or have things changed?

On the other hand, I understand that there are now several companies who are offering commands to experienced RAF pilots within one or two years.

I guess it looks like the RAF pilot training system will continue to expand to meet demand - even though the overall size of the RAF is shrinking.

[BEagle]

Roughly 15 years to command in ba.....

Heard yesterday that few FJ pilots are applying for ba short haul - intriguing to know whether it's the aircraft or lifestyle which is the deterrent.

[TyroPicard]

FJ pilots already know the earth is flat.....
Or is it the lure of a sunrise over the ocean with grit for eyeballs...
Or sleep-as-you-earn in a bunk....

[luke77]

BoeingMEL - BA doesn't have direct entry Captains

As an ex-fj guy 9 yrs in BA, I would advise anyone who is aiming for a BA longhaul command not to apply if they are older than mid-thirties as the time to command is about 20 years.

Variables:
1. The retirement option has just gone from 55 to 60 and most are staying for at least a part of that.
2. BA want to get rid of the second captain on 4-crew sectors
3. On the plus side, expansion is expected
4. Also plus, rumours are that soon BA will have to allow part-time to the over 55s.....so more captains as a lot would take this up.

Also worth noting is that the time-to-command in Virgin is getting lengthy also

I hope this helps

[thunderbird7]

.. and no direct entry captain recruitment in BA ( in response to a comment above)..

[wobble2plank]

Just a few personal viewpoints:

BALPA and the current pilots would scream blue murder and throw all their toys out of the cot at the idea of DEC's within BA.

Time to command is currently dropping on the SH fleets. Very large intake of FO's this year and the current recruitment of TC's on the bus suggest that is to continue.

The fluf jets at LGW come up for review soon and 'could' be replaced by the bus leading to an increase in destinations and routes (TBC)

There is rumour in the wind of an expansion, BA has squirreled away £15bn for aircraft fleet upgrades/replacements which have yet to be announced. The chance that all of the hulls will be replaced without expanding fully into T5 is a point of great speculation. Currently I believe BA are running at about 12-14 crews per LH aircraft.

The pay (currently undergoing negotiation) is far better than many loco's and, imho, a no/little loss sideways step from the top of the Lt/Ltcmdr, Flt Lt/Sqn Ldr payscales when the variable pay is included (£44k basic £12-£15K variable). One to watch for is the Basically Arse Retirement Plan (BARP) that new entrants will be given. This has been improved but it is in no way a 'real' final salary scheme. BARP is based upon the pre pay negotiation basic of £32k hence a loss of £12k pensionable off your basic!(However, certainly no worse than non pensionable but taxable flying pay). If you leave with your mil pension then you can AVC from source pay and enjoy a greatly improve pension with the tax free benefits.

Personally I find the work (on SH), the lifestyle and most of my colleagues on the flight deck excellent and have no complaints after 18 years of being dicked around under Her Majestys Service.

Currently 'rostered' for 10 days leave, 8 days 'Duty free week', 11 days flying of which I have 4 nights away and 92 credited flying hours. This month is easy but a 'normal' month would consist of approx 20-22 days flying. Weekends are a problem at the start but with the rapid pilot uptake at the moment you should progress up quite quickly. The part time at 55 is a big hook for most of the guys I have flown with and should keep the time to command reasonably level.

There are far worse places to be!

Vote with your feet!
;)

[MarkD]

BA are paying advertisers on PPRuNe I take it?

[abbotyobs]

My 16 yr point is at age 40, I take it from the above that it is not worth trying to join BA at age 40, since you are unlikely to reach command by the time you retire at age 55/60 or is that not the case.

[LFFC]

abbotyobs

That seems to be the case. If you want to join BA and get a command, then it would seem that the Managed Path (is it really managed?) isn't worth bothering about. I guess that's why so many are leaving in their early 30s; that way they might get a command in their mid 40s.

[120class]

Having successfully been through managed path, the only benefit would appear to be able to undertake the first part of BA's selection earlier than would otherwise be the case.

[scroggs]

Time to command is not a fixed figure in any company. It depends on expansion, retirements, route structure, fleet manning requirements and a number of other variables. Currently, BA pilots are achieving shorthaul commands at between 10 and 15 years, and longhaul nearer 20. However, it's not that long since shorthaul commands were available after 8 or so years. If BA begin a serious expansion period, as is rumoured and expected by the markets, the requirement for new captains will increase. Similarly, although BA's retirement option has gone from 55 to 60 (and people cannot now be prevented from remaining until 65), the retirement rate will resume its normal curve 5 or so years from last November, when that legislation was brought into force.

Direct-entry captains are very unlikely ever to be accepted within BA - or most other UK airlines.

For more info about BA recruiting, look here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=147292://).

As for other Virgin's time to command, it's currently about 8-9 years. With no aircraft deliveries currently scheduled until 2011, it's likely to extend up to 12 years for those nearing the bracket now, but may reduce for those later in the queue if the numbers of commands generated exceeds the recruiting rate of 10-12 years before (if you see what I mean!). That said, it's quite possible that Virgin will reactivate the 6 deferred A346 orders in the next year or two, which would generate about 60 commands, and keep command time to about 9-10 years.

Scroggs

[wobble2plank]

LFFC,
I'm not entirely sure where this time to command timeframe is coming from???
I think it comes down to what you want to command. The time for SH command is coming down already below 8 years and will, probably, drop further.
I have a mate at First Choice who has waited 9 years for a command, so the grass isn't always greener.
A LH command will take you longer as thats the natural progression within the company but at least on the way to your SH command you will have had a dabble at curved earth flying if you want it.
p.s. not advertising just showing it how I find it :E
p.p.s. Everyone that joins pushes us ALL up the ladder one, think about it :ok:

edit: Just seen Scroggs's post so sorry to repeat!!!!

Also RAFCARS/Managed path only lets you get past the initial online selection routine as you normally need a CPL/ATPL number to fill it in.

[Yellow Sun]

Just remember that in the airline world (BA in particular) seniority is all. The sooner you join, the better. A delay of a few months in joining can result in a difference of years in the time to command. I know this to my cost, as had I joined my first company about 4 months earlier I would have had a command about 4 years earlier.

That's the way the cookie can crumble out there.

YS

[28L]

Be careful about the 'time to Command' bit. If a Command is what is important to you, above everything else, then maybe BA isn't for you. And between now, 2(?) years to joining BA and eventually getting your Command there will definintely (30 years in aviation speaking here) be a 9/11, Middle East crisis, running out of oil crisis........name your flavour of the month.
Understand that once in BA your airforce experience counts for nothing (if you stick to 'just' flying). You will progress up the seniority list just as slowly - or quickly - as everyone else. For someone who is a 'work hard, fly well & I'll be promoted' guy this can be frustrating, to say the least. Passing your check rides with 100% does not get you up the list any faster than the guy who passes with the bare minimum.
On the other hand, if you keep passing with the bare minimum you will climb up the list just as quickly as the guy who gets 100% every time.
In a Big Airline you get opportunities you can't get in most others: shorthaul one year, longhaul the next. Plenty of destinations. On the other hand you rarely fly with the same guys twice. If you want 'outside' work, there are plenty of opportunities in Training, Technical etc etc.
It's horses for courses, as ever, but if Command is what you really really want (the Spice of life??) then BA might not be for you.

[SET 18]

I am not sure if anyone has mentioned yet, but also consider that BA's Pay scale for co-pilots has 23 (!) increments. This means that whilst waiting all of these prospective years one's pay is still increasing by circa £2300 (I think)per annum. The top rate is up near £100k

This means that, while one is waiting, at least the take-home is still going up....

[MrBernoulli]

I chose to go with a job (eventually!) where command was NOT my priority. Been there, done that, fun while it lasted etc. But I WAS after some security, lifestyle, decent wages, reasonable routes etc. so the longhaul job I have is great. Yes, bugger all DEP longhaul jobs available in BA at the moment but shorthaul is still there. In fact, there are next to NO longhaul jobs available in the UK at the mo.

So, with just about all the avail UK jobs being shorthaul, I am willing to bet that the only one that DOESN'T have a bond of some sort is BA. That can't be bad folks? Not that I would advocate this sort of behaviour, but if you do your Airbus course, start flying, don't like it after a few months, you can walk away with your Airbus rating and don't owe anyone a penny. That has got to be a nice little 'insurance' clause surely? And you will likely work less hard than all those easyJet, BMI, Ryanair etc etc wallahs. So if all there is is shorthaul, BA has to be worth a serious look. Get yourself the 'backstop' of being in the pool with a job in your pocket, then, if you want, you can still trawl around for other jobs in your last 2 years in the RAF. Plenty of time to make your mind up.

"Come on down, the price is right!"

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

Umm, sorry to intrude here with a reality check BUT,


You are between 33 and 39 and leaving the military.

You are likely married with kids or potentially so.

You probably don't live currently near Heathrow or Gatwick nor have any desire.

You would quite like a Captains wage.

You have a couple of thousand hours experience.


So WHY THE FLIP don't you apply to easyJet? You'd have a command course after two sims (12 months). Basic Captains pay is 74K plus 11K Sector pay plus 9% pension + loyalty bonus after 2 years.

Based in the regions though sadly no bases in RAF York Vale or East Anglia other than Newcastle or Stansted...

Home every night.

No Seniority.

No longhaul-wife-divorce-syndrome.


We have Cadets at the age of 24 leaving to join BA and Virgin last year that will be vastly senior to you...


Airline flying is boring. There are only 3 considerations:

Base,

Money,

Lifestyle.


Choose wisely.

WWW

[Airbrake]

Anybody considering a BA job would do well to seriously consider the points WWW raises. Command may not be everything but when it is going to be in excess of 10 years it is worth thinking about because you will get fed up in the right hand seat long before then.
The difference between the bottom of a BA seniority list and a fixed roster pattern like Easy is considerable. You should also do the sums and see how long it would take for BA FO pay to match Loco command pay. The answer is a longtime, and worth bearing in mind with mortgage issues or school fees to pay.
A few years ago for anybody in there early 30's it would have been a straight forward decision, but not now. If you join at your 38 point and want longhaul you will spend the majority of your career at BA in the bottom half of seniority lists which is significant. If you want shorthaul don't rule out the locos. There are negatives as with any company but there are also alot of positives.

[Megaton]

Lifestyle?
Bid Line Rules.

Location?
Live where you like. There are short haul pilots living all over the place and commuting to LHR.

And if easyjet is so fabulous why are the 24 year old wonderkids leaving for BA then? Rhetorical question btw!

[MrBernoulli]

www,

"longhaul-wife-divorce-syndrome"?

And your experience is ..............?

[itsonlyme]

Couldn't resist joining in the BA debate. I left the RAF and joined BA a few months ago. I left aged 40 on the PA spine.

I agree that if command is the be all and end all BA is not for you, command currently seems to be along the 15-20 years long haul and 10 years short haul, however, if the four shiny silver (yep silver not gold for some reason) rings is not the be all and end all a few points to consider ......

Starting with salary, I was expecting a small pay cut from my RAF PA Flt Lt salary(which I considered worth it for quality of life issues, no need to expand on those, I'm sure I am preaching to the converted), I was pleasantly suprised. My average take home (including allowances, fly pay, sector pay etc etc) is in the regon of 3,500 pcm. Last month take home was 4,500 due to ONE extra trip that was flown on top of normal schedule (yep, that's right, they asked me to work an extra two days, heathrow to Newark and then back and I got aprox 1,200 for it). This then continues to rise every year, as has been previously mentioned the top first officer salary is around the 100,000 basic (plus 15,000 allowances)

Quality of life simply doesn't compare, I know exactly what I am doing approx two weeks before the month starts, no ifs or buts, it is set in stone. Being at the bottom of the list means that you don't get to tailor your roster, i.e. you can't always get the trips or the days off you want and weekends are a non starter for a while (le to believe a few years). That said, if you need a specific day off in a month you seem to pretty much always get it. I am spoon feed everything I need to do the job, transport arranged, tailored route informaton, good hotels, wake up calls booked and then defered all without input from the crew, in fact it's all a bit of a cuture shock! they pay me as an aviator, I go in, fly, come home, end of involvment with company.

Private health cover, loss of ATPL cover, cheap travel etc. The no bond thing is unique to BA, as far as I'm aware all other companys need you to complete a certain amount of time (normally three years) with the company to repay the training costs. If you don't like it leave (with a shiny new airbus/boeing rating on your ticket)

Now the bad bits. You don't know many/any of the people you fly with. There is very little "team" in anything you do. The pension is now (changed about 1 month ago) comparable with most civvy schemes (better than most now) but not even close to military penson. You very occasionally fly with a k**b (hmm, also rings a bell from days in the mob)

In balance my life is massively better than it was a few months ago. This is not a BA advert just some inside info from someone who has made the jump very recently, I've tried to be balanced. I'm sure there are loads of other jobs out there that are equally good, but as I've got no experience of them I can't comment, all I can do is comment on what I know about i.e. BA. Don't regret the stuff or the time I've spent doing what I used to do one bit, although with lovely glowing 20/20 hindsight I would of jumped a whle ago if I'd known for sure how it would be outside

If anyone wants more gen feel free to drop me a line

[MrBernoulli]

Spot on itsonlyme, spot on. I guess one has to allow for the folk for whom command is all encompassing - it rules their lives and appears to be a psychological status thing. But that is easy for us to say, having been through the LH seat.

In any event, for you doubters out there, itsonlyme has succintly laid out why you should consider BA under this scheme. As I think I have said before, if successful through the assessment stage you get a banker of a job in your back pocket, time to finish your ATPL, and good practise at the whole airline recruiting thing. You have committed to nothing! And if you join, and dislike it, as itsonlyme says, "you .... leave (with a shiny new airbus/boeing rating on your ticket)".

You will not get this opportunity elsewhere. What have you got to lose by trying? I understand your discomfort at having to make those first steps towards leaving your 'umpty-ump' year comfort bubble.. You fear about your worth outside of the RAF (Army/Navy) but these are steps that are going to have to be made anyway. Think about it.

[Wader2]

Can't wait for 1 June.

[Airbrake]

There are clearly no right or wrong decisions concerning joining BA. Command is not everything but it does make life a little easier. However, stood at the bar telling your mates you now work for BA is not everything either!
I know my days off up to April 08 (with the exception of 3 reserve months). I also know most if not all of the people I fly with, which makes the day a bit more sociable.
I've had the BA 777 job offer but after much thought decided it wasn't for me, no final salary pension and age was a factor. Which ever way you go decide which best suits your home life not the number, or colour of stripes on your shoulder.

[MrBernoulli]

And on the 1st of June, Wader2, you will be .................. ?

[Carnage Matey!]

if the four shiny silver (yep silver not gold for some reason) rings is not the be all and end all

They're platinum rings, which is why they're not gold. :ok:

[Arthur's Wizard]

A very interesting thread.

How does one become a member of a Managed Path/RAFCARS scheme? :confused:

[120class]

You can join RAFCARS by filling in the form in GAI1028. Alternatively PMA32d or whatever they are called used to administer the Scheme.

[Arthur's Wizard]

120class

Thanks for that. Is this form available at the usual Station HR outlets?! I have not heard of this scheme before.

[120class]

Just checked some RAFCARS paperwork I have and apparently it is available through the RAF Pubs Library on the RAF Intranet.

:ok:

[Wee Weasley Welshman]

This isn't a My-airline-Is-better-Than-your-Airline willy waving competition.

Pros and cons on both sides and an I'm in one camp with plenty of mates in the other so I know the arguments well.

The Clincher in my book is a subtle one and open to dispute. It is this.

You have left the service where you enjoyed working in an intimate, friendly, comradely and social working enviornment. You all know that civvy street isn't like that. Which is true. But at an EZY regional base of say 6 aircraft you will get to know the cabin crew and the FOs. There are christmas parties and summer BBQ's. There will be crew in the town or village you settle in nearby.

You will fly with the same people, develop banter, get ribbed, know the kids, been to the BBQ, deal with the same 3 engineers, meet the Tower etc. etc.

You may not get that to the same extent at Heathrow.

Its a subtle difference. And as I already said, Base, Money, Lifestyle. If you take the 2nd year ex-mil salary as being £74k basic then the other two are up to you.

Cheers

WWW

ps My experience of the longhaul-ex-wife-syndrome is strictly limited to the one I snuggle up to every night. 4 out of 5 longhaul chums (sounds like a petfood advert this) are divorced. It seems to be a trend.

[Flashdance9]

For those in the know, which fleets are BA recruiting for (via the MILA/CARS)? SH or LH?

I was under the impression from BA recruitment that most LH slots had been filled (as of end of last year recruitment). Is there mega expansion planned for BA over next 1-2years?

[dogstar2]

Does anyone have access to pay and pension details? I would like to make a comparison between going to BA and staying in the RAF.

There does not seem to be much information out there about pensions and how much you would get at the end of it all. I

Also I can only seem to find starting salaries and cannot see what my projected pay would be in say 5 years time.

From those in the BA job already; is the work boring or do you derive lots of pleasure from it. How do the finances really work out when you realise you now have to be a member of a gym, pay full golf club membership, pay to commute to work etc etc.

thanks

[Carnage Matey!]

In reverse order:

From those in the BA job already; is the work boring or do you derive lots of pleasure from it. How do the finances really work out when you realise you now have to be a member of a gym, pay full golf club membership, pay to commute to work

It starts out very interesting but, like all things, when you've done too much of it it starts to get boring. 5 years seems to be about an average time before people get bored. Then you change fleet and start the cycle again. Finances seem to work out fine for most people unless you are recently divorced and have numerous wives and child maintenance to pay for.

Also I can only seem to find starting salaries and cannot see what my projected pay would be in say 5 years time

After 5 years your basic would be around the £53-£56K mark, plus around £12K in variable pay (conservative).

Does anyone have access to pay and pension details? I would like to make a comparison between going to BA and staying in the RAF.

Let me give you two alternative career paths, based on say 15 years in BA. You will start on about £44K as a short haul FO and after 10 years be on £65K as a long haul FO. If you stay as a long haul FO after 15 years you'll end up on £77K. If you become a short haul Captain you'll switch to £79K after year 10 and finish on £91K. Don't forget to add the variable pay element.

There does not seem to be much information out there about pensions and how much you would get at the end of it all

Its a money purchase scheme so what you get at the end depends on how much you put in and the cost of annuities when you retire. In terms of how much BA will contribute on your behalf it has, apparently, recently become the best scheme of its type on the market, beating Virgin and GB who were the previous best. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of that claim as I'm not in the scheme.

[Megaton]

I flew with a recruiter last week and he "let slip" that there would be no recruitment for long haul this year. On the upside the company is expanding its long haul fleet with 10 (?) 777s and has acquired LHR slots from GB. You may start on short haul but it shouldn't be for too long.
As for enjoyment? Some days are better than others. LHR is a pain in the ar5e but most of the guys you fly with are pretty reasonable so it's not too arduous. Also, WWW's point about flying with the same guys week in and weekout is fine; however, the downside is that you'll never avoid the base tw@ts for too long!
Short haul First Officer (not current though) pay scales from www.ppjn.com or:
24 83,432
23 81,719
22 80,007
21 78,294
20 76,581
19 74,869
18 73,156
17 71,443
16 69,731
15 68,018
14 66,305
13 64,593
12 62,880
11 61,167
10 59,455
9 57,742
8 56,029
7 54,317
6 52,604
5 50,891
4 49,178
3 47,466
2 45,753
1 44,040
Plus £10 per flying hour and £2.73 per duty hour. £10 for nightstop (5 in case of domestic). Doing about 750-800 hrs per year plus the duty pay etc. Your total pay depends on what kind of work you bid for ie nightstops, short tours, long tours, day trips etc but last year I grossed approx £62k (in my first year) plus RAF pension on top - that does include some, but not much, overtime.
BARP pension is not as good as a final salary and depends hugely upon how long you plan to work for and your AVCs so it's quite difficult to compare like with like. Last round of negotiations saw a huge, and much needed, improvement to BARP.
Bottom line is that it's, obviously, not as lucrative as it used to be but a lot better than most others. Strong union representation and protection that comes with our Bid Line Rules agreement.

[flipster]

WWW has most valid points with which I concur and is also correct on this not being a willy waving contest!

I, too, went orange and am looking to the LHS after 2.5 years but with Boeing 'old generation' and 'new generation' on my licence, as well as the 'bus.

Most important, for me at least, is the lifestyle issue. For example, I know what days I am working (earlies or lates) for the next 18 months (barring two 4-week periods per year).

Furthermore, I have a regained a social life that allows me to play cricket, rugby and sailing as well as party.

There are precious few nightstops, no long through-the-night flights and I sleep at home every night with my missus. I see lots of the kids and I don't get jetlag on my return from work.

Yes, they work you hard but its a lot easier than being in the military where you get less hours but with all the extra cr@p thrown in.

Also, the number of "Base Tw*ts" is almost negligible across the company and is 'nil' at the base at which I work (apart from myself, obviously).

Money/pension/command, for me, means little - lifestyle is everything but I acknowledge that this will be different for each of you.

At the end of the day, BA/Virgin/EZY or HMFC ......is all a matter of 'horses for courses'. All I would say is "look before you leap".

Bon chance

Flip

ps. In civvy street, no-one is shooting at me, there are no ACRs nor secondary duties and neither do I have to sleep in a tent in the desert!

pps The reason why a lot of 24 year olds leave is precisely the same reason why a lot of (but not all) 30-40 years want to stay/join! If I were 24 again, I would want to see the world and sh@g my way across the globe. I don't think EZY would suit my needs!

[Megaton]

Rugby, Flip? Bit late in life to be starting a new sport? :E :E

[flipster]

Ha ha ha

Am a ref now!!

Poacher turned gamekeeper perhaps?

flip

[Arthur's Wizard]

I have spoken to my HR peeps who have neither heard of the RAFCARS scheme or can find GAI1028 on the t'intranet.

I am keen to try and join before the magic 31 May so any help on how to register/join would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[120class]

AW

Try this link:

http://www.publications.raf.r.mil.uk/live/rafgai/vol1/gai1028.pdf

Cheers

[Arthur's Wizard]

120class

I managed to find it just before you posted! Thanks for your help anyway.

AW

[MrBernoulli]

Flashdance9,

To merely reinforce Ham Phisted's comments about the lack of LH jobs, yes, what he says is true (and confirmed from BA's 'Recruiting Command'). However, there are NO long-haul jobs avail in the UK at the mo. So, back to my oft-stated point, you can get a short-haul job at BA (because that is all you will get anywhere else at the mo) WITHOUT a bond. Again, there is NOWHERE else in the UK that you have that advantage.

The new LH jets are coming, so the opportunities to swing to LH will come too. You can't change to LH, if that is what you hanker for, with the lo-co outfits. Nor can you change, say, from LH to SH with the likes of Virgin, if you fancy a change. If nothing else, the BA recruitment opportunity allows folk to dip their toe in the water and see what the whole airline job application thing is about.


flipster,

How are you doing buddy? Sounds like the whole orange thing agrees with you. As long as you're happy, thats the important bit.

[404+]

Can't access t'intranet as overseas. Any link to normal t'internet for the GAI1028?
Cheers.
404+

[Megaton]

Rumour today was 130 Airbus conversions this year and 700 over the next three years. Could be good (ish) times again.

[abbotyobs]

I can imagine that BA will extend the RAFCARS application beyond 31 MAY 07, if anyone could post the GAI link for normal internet access that would be great.
No trying to change the subject but does anyone know if Cathay will accept applications from people who have just done the mil bridging number of exams package since on their website it seems to stipulate that you must have done all 14 exams.
Thanks

[MrBernoulli]

abbotyobs,

The problem is not so much with Cathay as the Chinese CAA. when converting your license to a Chinese one they want to see what marks you got in which exams. Consequently, trying to explain how the Mil license works baffles them and they say 'non' ...... or whatever 'no' is in Chinese.

At the early stages of the 'Mil dispensations JAR license', I am led to believe, a couple of guys with such licenses did get in Cathay and Dragonair 'under the radar' but then the Chinese CAA put their foot down and stopped it. Consequently Cathay, and others, said they wanted all the exams done to avoid jousting with their CAA. So, it is a problem with any of the Chinese airlines.

That said, I recall that a friend, with such a license, did get 'promising noises' from Cathay and did the whole of their recruiting process. What the outcome was I do not know. You will really have to try and touch base with someone in Cathay/Dragonair or similar who can get up to date gen.

Best of luck.

Why do you believe BA will keep the 'window' open past 31 May? I think it will be more like closing this recruiting round and, if necessary, opening another later in the year. Thats the way it usually happens.

[abbotyobs]

MrBernoulli

Thanks very much for your help.
You are probably right about BA reopening the RAFCARS scheme later on in the year, I was just speculating.
Thanks for the info re the rules for all 14 exams to be completed for Chinese airlines.

[MrBernoulli]

Only a few days left for this BA recruiting window folks! It closes 31st May. :ok:

[BEagle]

Hi, MrB!

Last year, I raised the topic of 'Chinese acceptance' with the CAA chap who had been chiefly responsible for the 'Mil accreditation' scheme. He told me that yes, there had been a problem, but that the Hong Kong-CAA had then been given fuller details of the scheme and had accepted it.

That chap has now left the CAA, I understand, and I don't know who is currently responsible for such policy.

Or indeed whether the 'Mil accreditation scheme' will continue under EASA.

Is there anyone in whatever 'manning' is called these days looking after this significant recruiting and retention incentive nowadays......???

[abbotyobs]

Beags,
Do you mean that the Chinese CAA will accept our mil accreditation scheme,
and not require applicants to have done all 14 exams?

I would think it unlikely that fcl will stop the mil accreditation scheme.
Just for interest in a euro country not far from ours, the mil accreditation scheme requires all mil pilots to do 11 exams, so the UK CAA one is pretty good!
Thanks

[MrBernoulli]

Greetings BEagle. Thanks for that bit of useful info re 'Chinese acceptance'. Interesting that abbotyobs says of Cathay " ...... since on their website it seems to stipulate that you must have done all 14 exams." Perhaps they haven't bothered updating their website?

(Am in Singapore at the mo ..... lots of 'boys-toys' electronic stuff to tempt one.)

[BEagle]

I do NOT know whether Cathay/Dragonair still require all exam passes, the information I had was in a conversation with Simon White when I was at a CAA EASA conference.

CAA-FCL will have no say in EASA MIl accreditation; it is up to someone in the MoD to ensure that the scheme will not have been overlooked in the headlong lemming-charge which is EASA-FCL.

MrB - I trust that the boys' toys which are so tempting in Singapore are all electronic in nature.....:E I'll bet some of your crew will find certain locals........interesting?

[abbotyobs]

Thanks Beags for your help, do you think the introduction of EASA next year will have an impact on national requirements for mil accreditation schemes, so that ours may well change?

[flipster]

Mr B

Hi there,

Yes, the future is orange (for me, at least). I think the Fench say

"Chaque un a son gout"

or sommat similiar.

Bon chance

flip

[abbotyobs]

The managed path/RAFCARS scheme closing date, for the service pilot hold pool has been extended until 31 Jul 07.
Cheers

[Touchin' Down]

Last time I spoke to the Cathay recruiters they did say that the Mil bridging package was not accepted by the Chinese. It didn't seem to be a big issue tho as they said that Cathay would send you on a course in Adelaide to complete the necessary study and exams. This was about 6 months ago tho so things may have changed.

[abbotyobs]

Touchin' down

Thanks for the info, I will post again if I hear any different.
Thanks

[MrBernoulli]

As well as the RAFCARS path, I see that the DEP scheme is open until 15 June 2007. Get cracking with your applications lads and lasses - you know you want to! (You will need a A320 or B737 for the DEP scheme - I don't suppose too many of you have that?)


Managed Path/RAFCARS (Service Pilot Hold Pool)
Ref UKLHR350
Region UK - Heathrow
Location London - Heathrow
Category Technical & Operations

Job Description

Closing Date: 31st July 2007

The Managed Path/RAFCARS Scheme is for experienced high calibre Military pilots who want to develop their careers with one of the most progressive international airlines in the business.

Requirements

* Minimum of 1500hrs on any MOD service aircraft.
* Member of Managed Path or RAFCAR schemes.
* You must be within 2 years of your immediate pension point or exit date.

Skills, Knowledge and Expertise

* At the point of application there is no requirement to have an ATPL, however an ATPL or 'frozen' ATPL will be required prior to the offer of a pilot contract.
* You will be current on any MOD service aircraft.
* You will need a first class flying record and a good level of physical fitness.
* Demonstrable evidence of leadership, intellect, determination, reliability, high personal standards, motivation, flexibility, well developed customer service skills and teamwork.

You as a Person

* Physically fit and meet the requirements for the issue of a JAA/CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airways’ medical criteria for employment is of a higher standard than the CAA requirement.
* Height between 1.57m (5'2") and 1.91m (6'3") with weight in proportion to height (height is accurately determined during the assessment process). Qualified pilots who are taller than 1.91m may submit an application but will be required to undergo a functionality check to confirm their ability to meet the requirements of the seating positions in the British Airways fleet of aircraft.
* Spoken and written fluency in English.

http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/baweb1/tpl_ba01.asp?s=EMvXuAFcPnEQvSsEnk&jobid=20383,9848985688&key=5584682&c=877625460256&pagestamp=sebdzoabfmagchjfod


Direct Entry Pilot Scheme (Hold Pool) Shorthaul/Longhaul
Ref UKLHR351
Region UK - Heathrow
Location London - Heathrow
Category Technical & Operations

Job Description

Closing Date: 15th June 2007

First Officer

The Direct Entry Pilot Scheme is for experienced high calibre pilots who want to develop their careers with one of the most progressive international airlines in the business.

Requirements

You will need:

* An ATPL(F) with at least 1000 hours recent experience on a turbojet/turboprop transport category aeroplane with a MTOM greater than 10 tonnes or an approved passenger seating configuration of not less than 20 passengers.

OR

* A current type rating on either the Airbus A320 series or Boeing 737, with an ATPL(F) and a minimum of 500 hours recent experience on type.

Skills, Knowledge and Expertise

* You will have a full UK issued JAA/CAA ATPL(F).
* You will need a first class flying record and a good level of physical fitness.
* You will demonstrate evidence of leadership, intellect, determination, reliability, high personal standards, motivation, flexibility, together with well developed customer service skills and teamwork.

You as a Person

* You will be physically fit and in possession of a JAA/UK CAA Medical Licence (Class 1) and able to satisfy British Airways medical requirements. Please note that British Airways’ medical criteria for employment is of a higher standard than the CAA requirement.
* Height between 1.57m (5'2") and 1.91m (6'3") with weight in proportion to height (height is accurately determined during the assessment process). Qualified pilots who are taller than 1.91m may submit an application but will be required to undergo a functionality check to confirm their ability to meet the requirements of the seating positions in the British Airways fleet of aircraft.
* You will have fluency in spoken and written English.

http://www.britishairwaysjobs.com/baweb1/tpl_ba01.asp?s=gpRoUZwJhYKpMmYhe&jobid=20384,9341529883&key=5584682&c=877625460256&pagestamp=seiukdbxjfzuuxdyfn

[MrBernoulli]

As well as the Managed Path/RAFCARS (Service Pilot Hold Pool) having been extended to 31 July 2007, the Direct Entry Pilot Scheme (Hold Pool) Shorthaul/Longhaul scheme is also open but ends 15 June 2007. Get your skates on folks, and see post #60 at:

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=275125&page=3

[MrBernoulli]

Thanks a bunch to the Mods who moved this here. If you had read the DATE of this title you would see that it is different and signposts the main thread. Duh!

[brit bus driver]

Managed Path application window has been extended to 30 Sep 07. Is this indicative of an increasing requirement? Flash to bang from application to being called for assessment was about a week. Here's hoping.....

[sangiovese.]

Now don't you all forget about the balpa employment conference on October 20.
http://www.balpaconferences.co.uk
Good time to meet your desk officers if it's anything like previous years.......Good for networking and having your CV handy.....worked for me :)

[abbotyobs]

The BA holding pool application date for RAFCARS pilots within 2 years of their exit date, is due to end tomorrow 30 Apr 2008.
Anyone know if it is going to be extended, like it has been recently?
If not I have a very busy evening tomorrow.
Thanks

[perpetual student]

did you get an answer from anywhere to your question re closing date being 30 Apr 08? If so, please let me know!

[abbotyobs]

I was told that BA have just put an advert in to Flight saying that they are recruiting 250 pilots this year, so you should be OK, if you leave it. Someone also said that they normally renew and extend the closing date on the first day, after, so 1 May 2008 for the end of May 08, and so on, so we will see tomorrow.
The other thing to consider is that you can apply at your 2 year point even without a licence, this means that if you mess the interview up, you would get another chance with a year to go, since you can reapply after 12 months, whereas if you left it, until your last year you only get one shot.
The last point is, if you pass the interview day, pay money to do an exact sim pre-ride a few days before your BA sim, since the sim is quite hard and after all you only get one shot, why not pay to make sure you pass it.
You then get a job with a BIG career airline!
Cheers

[speedbloke]

Some good advice there from abboty - except for most guys with mil. wings don't spend money you don't need to on a sim ride! Do a couple of raw data ILSs wherever you are/in whatever box you can blag into and practice being nice to everyone for a couple of days, especially if you think they're a tw@ ;)

Just imo of course.....

[brit bus driver]

What speedbloke said......

They're not looking for Jumbo aces (I know...my first landing was akin to being shot down, as was my second.....) and as for fly the exact profile, only the TC on the day knows that.

They're apparently looking for CRM, CRM and some CRM for good measure. Obviously the ability to fly a vaguely competent departure and approach, whilst reciting the fourteen times table is an added bonus, but I would think carefully before spending your hard earned pennies.

[breakscrew]

I would be interested to know why BA did not recruit any of the GB Airways flight crews when they ditched their franchise. I know many were unhappy about transferring to EasyJet, and would have welcomed being taken on by BA. They were experienced in BA procedures and working practices, so the training bill would have been negligible. Anyone know the reason why not one was accepted?