PFA/Sywell fly-in.

[stillin1]

Where was the PFA?
Sywell = great airfield, superb facilities and did a really nice job on Sat:ok: But it was just another fly-in! I saw nothing to show that the PFA were actively involved.
Half a dozen poor stalls and a PFA table are a pretty poor show chaps:{ Perhaps they were involved with the excellent marshalling team?
PFA - Basics guys! = make yourselves known, or you are wasting your time and efforts by being invisible on the day - (when it matters):ugh:
Sywell:D

See you at Wick:hmm:

[javelin]

Nah - it was Saturday, they only work Mon - Fri, you should know that :E

[Rod1]

The event was part run by the local PFA Strut. Such people are voluntary and often get on with the job in the background without carrying big signs saying "I AM FROM THE PFA". If it had not been for the local strut there would have been no rally.
Completely agree that the head office let the locals down, but the strut is an integral part of the PFA way.
It was good to see so many PFA aircraft in one place. Just goes to show what a good system the PFA operate. See you all at Wick in a few weeks, with or without head office support.
Rod1

[HAL-26]

I didn't notice, nor frankly worry about, the alleged absence of PFA's "big guns" on Sauturday.

What I did enjoy was a cracking fly-in, mooching about some great aeroplanes and "chopsing" with lots of like minded friends.

For me, a lot more fun than Kemble and I suspect a return to what the old PFA gatherings at Sywell must have been like.

Congratulations to all involved, not least to Sywell's FISOs who had the approach stream from overhead Pitsford brilliantly set up!

[Stampe]

I attended on Saturday an excellent day out met lots of old friends (Human and aircraft).A relaxed , low key event there was enough to keep me happy all day.Simple and effective ATC procedures that worked well.I hear the aircraft I flew in won an award I,ll have to wait to find out as I was sadly unable to stay overnight which looked as if it was going to be great fun.I attended Sywell in 1970/71(age 16) with this revival event we could have the beginnings of something really good but it shouldn,t get too big with the emphasis remaining firmly on PFA and classic aircraft.Well done Sywell you have a truly stunning airfield with excellent modern facilities in a central location and well done to all the individuals involved.A great day out thank you.

[Andy_RR]

I thoroughly enjoyed the event on Saturday too.

For me, Sywell is my local aerodrome when I'm in the UK. IMO it's a crying shame it's not always as friendly as it was on Saturday to us non-flyer-inerers.

All locks, gates and access codes isn't the best way to encourage more GA activity. It reminds me way too much of Australia - maybe my ASIC will help me through next time I visit on a non-PFA day.

Ho hum

A

[Mike Cross]

Half a dozen poor stalls and a PFA table are a pretty poor show chaps.
You pay a fiver to use a beautiful grass airfield and complain that there's insufficient Tat? I suspect this (http://www.worldofhorses.co.uk/car_boot_sales_directory.htm) might be more to your taste.

[Arrowflyer]

I was one of the PFA helpers on Saturday. Day started at 8am on Saturday with a briefing and most volunteers worked until 18:00 Sunday. We provided voluntary escort to groups onto the airfield - all those yellow jacketers were PFA volunteers. Marshalling was provided by the Milton Keynes aviation society - they were in the white lab coats and did a fantastic job.

The same volunteers will be back at Sywell next week running a Young Aviators Day.

The event was organised by Sywell, with not much input or say, as I understand it, from the PFA. It was after all, the Sywell Revival and shared as a regional PFA rally

The PFA stand and Build a plane project was there, but a noticable lack of suppliers and stalls. Some PFA committee members were there too, helping as tour escorts.

I had a great time - my wife helped out too. For us, it was great showing people around the aircraft and having a good old chin-wag with the old boys about their days of flying in the RAF.

Rod1 is right. We were there, just working the event without any noise. Letting people enjoy their membership fee. The only fee was charged by Sywell and nothing went to the PFA.

[stillin1]

Mike, did you get out of the wrong side of the bed?:=
I refer you to my origional post:
"PFA, make yourselves known, or you are wasting your time and efforts by being invisible on the day"
GA is struggling as it is in the UK.
The PFA is, IMHO, probably the best placed body in the UK at the moment to represent GA. Indeed it usually does a good job doing so.
When advertised as a part PFA event it would appear to be basic sense to be there to spread the word!
Thanks for the "stalls" link, although I was more minded to see those with a GA link. Its nice to see the real kit and talk to the guys who know the facts (Car boot events are not MY thing. However, whatever floats YOUR boat)!
Hope you sleep better tonight:E .
Arrowflyer & Rod1, Thanks for the facts. Sywell and the local strut did a great job

[Arrowflyer]

The PFA folks tried to do promo stuff, but lucked out as it was a Sywell event. The PFA were going to take the landing fees and hand out membership forms and tickets etc, but Sywell decided they were doing the whole thing, so no marketing from the PFA. Bit of a shame that.

I'm sure Sywell would report that there was no involvement from the PFA so why should they get to do some marketing / money.

I suspect it will be similar at Wycome at the Aero Expo event which is also providing a PFA regional.

Now the PFA rally has been losing oodles of money, so this way, the PFA did not make money, used volunteers, did not pay to organise the event so in real terms, were quids in.

[Mike Cross]

Not out of bed the wrong side, just a poor attempt at humour. I only picked up on the bit of your post that I quoted.

I'd suggest that any criticism should look at the purpose of the event. It was called a Regional Rally and did a pretty good job of being one. The bulk of the attendees appeared to me to be PFA members or spotters. I don't think the event set out to attract non-members and get them to sign up or to be a showcase for the kit vendors. PFA has lost a lot of money in the past few years trying to run an event on those lines and have comprehensively shown that it's not possible to do so at anywhere near breakeven. Fly! and Aerofair seem to have had the same problem.

If you think about it, what would make you keen to take up something new?

Golf:- Going to a golfing exhibition or being taken round a course by some mates and having a few drinks and a good time?

Sailing:- Going to the Boat Show or having a fun day out on a mate's boat?

PFA:- Going to the PFA stand at an exhibition or being taken to a PFA event by a mate and having a good day out?

Maybe we've been going about it the wrong way.

Mike

[Andy_RR]

If you think about it, what would make you keen to take up something new?


Sorry to bang on about it, but what would make me more interested in taking up flying (if I wasn't already, but not at EGBK) is decent access and people to talk to if you speculatively visit the place. On any other day, Sywell makes the HM Prison service look slack.

[jeffbell59]

That's a new description, Sywell and HM Prison ! Aerodrome Security is a factor of post 9/11, is a requisite for European Skies ANSP Certification, and is a basic fact of aviation, it is not going to go away. Airside safety is paramount, fences work well in ensuring that.
There is a perfectly adequate viewing area in the Museum car park with access to the Aviator Hotel and it's lawn where good views can be had of all the aerodrome activites. If you were serious about learning to fly then you would ask to go the the flying school, either by prior arrangement, or on spec by asking someone at the aerodrome. Access details can be had from the Hotel, the Tower or any of the resident units when asked. We don't bite and are friendly ALL of the time despite peoples misconceptions ! With prior arrangement and subject to traffic levels I have and will continue to show visitors around the airfield and it's aircraft, so enough of this "Sywell unfriendly" nonsense. We have a great band of flyers and airfield staff here who all get on very well together with no internal bickering, some good banter, and it makes coming to work pleasurable.
As for the PFA weekend, well HAL-26 said it all. A cracking fly-in, with a great selection of aircraft and guys and gals. Over 300 stalls were invited, not our fault they didn't attend, probably something to do with Popham (again not Sywells fault !) Thanks for all the positive feedback for the weekend, the procedures were designed to lighten the load on pilots aswell as us Tower staff and it seemed to work well. 205 a/c Sat, 35 a/c sun was not bad for the first one given the weathers attempt to thwart proceedings. It seems, however, there are some people you just cannot please no matter what !

Jeff
Airfield Manager, Sywell

[MikeJ]

Jeff,
I was not able to attend your event, but from all I have heard as a PFA member, it was very good, and you are to be congratulated. The original post was not against Sywell but the PFA, which in my opinion was not justified for the reasons given by other posts.
Subsequent posts re the security arrangements leave me puzzled, and I really would be delighted to have an understanding of the reasons for the initial comments in your own post.
Very many licenced airfields are not, at least as yet, taking this position. Some, eg Clacton and Sandown, have public footpaths across the middle of the runway, with no legal possibility of restricting public access 'airside'.
My own home base has much more business and international traffic than Sywell will ever have, with an occasional bisjet, and many turbo prop movements. A successful air taxi service with navajos and senecas is based here, as well as a busy flight school.
Yet there is no attempt at secure airside fencing, quite apart from having unfenced public footpaths about 50 yards from both ends of the runway.
There is no 'hi-vis' vest rule, as it cannot aid security (anyone can buy them at a builders merchant) nor safety in daylight.
Please, please, explain the justification for the restrictions at Sywell - surely its not just a 'jobsworth' attitude?

[Andy_RR]

Hear hear MikeJ
Jeff, don't get me wrong - I thoroughly enjoyed the PFA day on Saturday and I thought it was to be highly commended (and hopefully repeated often)

I have lived in Northampton for nearly a decade now and it was the first day in all of my sporadic visits to the place that I have found someone to talk to about the club(s) there. Ironically, I was given the security gate codes to ensure I had access to come another day to organise some flying!

FWIW, I got my PPL at Turweston and have flown from there and Headcorn, visiting quite a few other places whilst flying. In my opinion, Sywell erm... scores very highly on security!

I do applaud the high level of invesment in facilities at Sywell though. I wish the aerodrome every success because it is a huge benefit to the surrounding area. I'm just pointing out things that could be considered in making the place even more appealing to a wider audience.

A

[jeffbell59]

Security issues ! :\ Most airfields have some form of security and of course a lot of airfields post tresspass notices, afraid I can't comment on public footpaths although I know some have. I was offered a flight at Panshanger which suffers from people crossing the runway, Elstree also has a public right of way accross it's runway.

I can only speak for Sywell. We have suffered in the past with thefts, I understand, from "Pikey's". A complete set of portable fencing was lifted minutes after having been erected ! A lifting barrier was installed but subsequently trashed. The 2 large sliding vehicle gates by Flylight and Sloanes serve a worthy purpose of slowing traffic down coming onto active parts of the airfield. Without those gates traffic would not slow down and could cause an aircraft/vehicle collision. The Sloane gate is open for workers arriving for work and I have seen vehicles not even hesitating to look for taxying aircraft during that time. There is no need for public access at the Flylight gate as there is no parking and no room, it is purely access for the Tower and refuelling point. It is also one of the most active parts of the airfield.

The aircraft owners pay a lot of money for hangarage so they deserve a secure environment, what would happen if something happened to their aircraft ? Who would be to responsible ? I personally think it is a plus that the aerodrome is doing it's best for it's tenants and providing a safe environment for visitors.

As for the airside fence, well it is hardly obstructive ! It is no higher than the one I remember at Sunderland airport when I used to "spot" as a young lad back in the 1970's ! Leavesden was totally inaccessible also in the 1970's. Security at Biggin has increased in recent times. There are lots of airfields that are or have become more secure recently. The main thing here is YOU ASK to look round. It is not a god given right to wander freely around an airfield, most are private property. That is not to say they are unfriendly. A lot are more than happy to let you wander round but it is a matter of courtesy to ask. When on duty in the tower you should be concentrating on aircraft not wondering what some stranger is doing wandering around. As I said before, I have not refused anyone who asks to visit and all the clubs here are extremely helpful and friendly. Just because other airfields don't have security fences, the fact we do at Sywell does not make it a bad thing !

:)

[Andy_RR]

Doesn't sound like Sywell has any plans to change much in the future then. Oh well...

[muffin]

A couple of years ago I wanted to do some businesss with a firm based at Sywell. I happened to be in the area one day so I decided to pay them a visit. After spending about 30 minutes trying every possible access route in that I could see, I tried to phone them. Their number was engaged constantly, so in the end I just gave up and went away. I rate the site as the most customer unfriendly that I have ever come across. What on earth do they think have they got in there? The UK gold reserves? I have never met another GA field that remotely approaches this level of security.

A few months ago I actually managed to penetrate the outer defences by following somebody in who knew the magic passwords. I agree that once you get in, the place is excellent and the facilities superb. But how many prospective customers get put off by the ramparts? A lot more than the inhabitants think.

[jeffbell59]

Looks like I am banging my head against a brick wall :ugh: with this thread and guess Sywell will always have it's "anti-brigade", so this is the last from me !

We have lots of satisfied customers, we get more positive feedback than negative. Ok, so we have fences, they only stop airside access. Most companys are accessible via the main entrance apart from Sundays when the businesses are closed anyway. The Hotel reception is always accessible and is a good point to start for access.

As for Sywell changing in the future, guess you want the fences ripping out ?! They work for us and achieve what they were put there for. With a hotel and coporate venue (Hangar 1) we regularly get events with between 500-1000 guests of non-aviation backgrounds on site. Without fences, how would you stop them wandering around the place for those of an inquisitive nature.

Stop thinking of things from a spotters prospective and think of our potential problems as management ! I re-iterate, we are friendly when asked for access! :)

[London Mil]

Jeff me old, long time no speak. Popping into Sywell in a few weeks, I'll try and remeber to bring a stottie cake or two.

[jeffbell59]

A stottie cake or two...now you are talking bonnie lad !!