Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania etc

[QDMQDMQDM]

I am thinking possibly of a trip to Finland in June and maybe coming back via the Southern Baltic coast. Where do you get maps and airfield info on these countries?

Thx,

David

[denhamflyer]

Stangely enough Estonia and Latvia have just arrived in my Bottlang update (dated 20th April) - Lithuania was already in it. So I would suggest either a Bottlang subscription or a trip kit...

I suspect a bit more searching may also find this new information in the relevant countries AIP - anyone else care to enlighten us?

[100LL]

Finnish maps are hard to get hold of, try http://www.finavia.fi/ais/aipcharts/AipCharts.htm for Finland. the others i just dont know.

[denhamflyer]

Got me interested so had a quick google - and Wow - what an enlightened organisation in Estonia - they even publish the VFR charts online!
Have a look at http://aip.eans.ee/ and click on the ICAO 1:500000000 map! They also seem to have a consolidated download of the complete AIP.
Now there is a lesson for our beloved CAA.
Try http://www.lgs.lv/ for Latvia and http://www.ans.lt/index.php?lang=2&wai=0
Cant take any credit try Eurocontrol (http://www.eurocontrol.int/aim/public/standard_page/web_eur.html) they have links to most websites
Have fun :cool:

[M609]

Be aware that the VFR charts for Latvia and Lithuanis (Not Estonia) are crap. They look all right, but many obstacles are missing.

When I was at Siauliai/EYSA with the Norwegian F-16 Det. in 2005 (ATCO) the pilots reported several massive radio masts with support cables >500ft that were not marked. Same deal, but to a lesser extent in Latvia. They stopped flying at 500ft after the first "woops" moment! :D

Our local parachute club had it's Skylane in Kaunas in 2002 for a re-spray, and the ferry pilot reported similar issues.

The Estonian charts are good.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks everyone. Looks like with enough downloads one can avoid paying £300 for the Bottlang trip kit. How much info is in the latest Garmin databases? Anyone with a 496 care to comment?

[rmac]

I fly in Slovakia, Poland, Czech and Hungary and the 496 is pretty up to date, including details of small grass airfields with 600m runways that are missing from a lot of paper charts.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks. Makes one think one should put the £300 for a Bottlang towards a 496 instead.

[IO540]

Bottlangs are inaccurate but that's not suprising since almost nobody flies in these far away places, and very few pilots from over here go anywhere. So the data doesn't get tested.

Jepp are now doing the Bottlang guides in electronic format, viewable in Jeppview 3.5. This is good; on a VFR trip to Greece a few years ago I carried ~ 20kg of the paper guides! Of course nothing beats IFR for lack of need to carry mountains of paper.

The standard solution for VFR charts for far away places is the UK ONC charts. These were last updated c. 1998 but are OK for terrain. They don't show CAS, for which you need to get the IFR charts.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Sounds like no point getting the Bottlang if you have something like a GPS 496. Am I right?

[IO540]

Well I have known of people flying with a road atlas, and in a lot of places you will get away with that ;)

What you get in a Bottlang guide is all the VFR plates i.e. approach diagrams, required VRPs, contact numbers (which are often duff because Jepp don't dial any of them), and other VFR-useful stuff.

You can get the same stuff from the relevant national AIP, but not all of these are published online (Greece being one) and also it is not really practical to print out the AIP for all of say Greece but the Bottlang guide for Greece is one fairly portable Pooleys-guide-sized thingy. OTOH if you are definitely visiting only 1 or 2 places then printing out the AIP is fine.

Try to have a look at the EAD site. It's a typical crap piece of web design where somebody got paid for a fancy job. It downloads several tens of MB of java objects. Eventually you click on Enter, and to get the bit you want you click on "Pams Light" (yes you knew that really). Eventually a fairly obvious form appears and you can view the various AIPs, approach plates, etc.

There is also a link to some national AIP websites here (http://www.eurocontrol.int/aim/public/standard_page/web_eur.html).

[tiggermoth]

Nothing to do with flying, but we went to Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia on our honeymoon less than two years ago. Lovely countries.

They are as flat as pancakes, so your options for forced landings would be quite good (but they have an awful lot of forests though!).

[denhamflyer]

the 496 et al. Are no substitue for the airfield data that is provided with Bottlang and the VFR/IFR charts. One big Gotcha is the lack of Gliding site data.

I fly with the G1000 (same basic info as the 496) which is GREAT for knowing where you are and sometime more importantly where controlled airspace is etc.

The basic "plates" for airfields are good for appraoches but they give no details about VRP's approach "rules" , noise abatement etc.etc.

You can get a lot of the plates and info from the online AIP's (including the UK CAA) but they can be awkward to access and are not always available. So I subscribe to the Bottlang manuals for Europe - consistent always availble information.

However I agree with IO the weight is ridiculous - so I now subscribe to NavSuite IFR (+Bottlang VFR package) which gives me all the information on my PC (Mac :ok: ) and have a printer that weights about 1 volume of Bottlang! But this is actually quite an expensive option (2000+ Euros). I am waiting for an upgrade on the G1000 to take to plates from the Jepp MFD package so they can display the actual data whilst flying - now that will save paper!

Whilst Jepp is not perfect, nor is any other system - including the AIP websites. I do find that it gives the best / most consitent info for European travel (certainly VFR) so would recommend it.

I would also recommend equipment like the 496 whilst flying - but also remember you will need to subscribe to keep the navdata up to date.

It is good to see countries like Estonia putting all of there info in an easily accessible form on their websites (I am flying to Morroco next week so have hand download the entire AIP (in french) page by page and then put them into a single PDF whilst travelling - very painful)

Hopfully websites like Estonia will drive the Jepp prices down.

Hope your trip goes well..

[Pat210]

Our group did the Baltic in May 2005, routes as follows;
EGTO-DET-COA-RKN-EDDW
EDDW-FLD-EPSC
EPSC-SUW-VABER-EYKA
EYKA-EVRA
EVRA-LIE-TIGNU-POL-RANOK-EPGD
EPGD-KRT-FLD-ETNL
ETNL-LUB-LBE-EDWI
EDWI-EMD-LWD-EHTX
EHTX-DET-EGTO

Memorable events, thermals over large forests even above 3000', charges at Kaunas, flying VFR over Russian Federation, brillent trip. Hope this helps, best of luck

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks everyone, so VFR charts for Finland and Sweden? Where can I get them?

I can try and print the Estonia one, but is it just ONC charts for Latvia and Lithuania?

If I get as far as Finland I am most likely to come back via Sweden again, but it would be nice to have the option.

David

[M609]

Quick google came up with this site:

http://www.pilotshop.nl

Just navigate to charts. Both Sweden and Finland

[DubTrub]

Hey QDM^3,

are you still planning that trip?

[QDMQDMQDM]

I'm off next Thursday, to the KZ fly-in at Stauning initially and then on through Sweden, to the Aland Islands hopefully, but not planning to come back via Latvia etc.

[Bluebeard777]

ICAO charts for all the Baltic countries, Finland etc. are available from KSAB Service AB in Sweden, see:
http://www.ksab.net/cms/index.php?option=com_virtuemart&page=shop.browse&category_id=15&Itemid=28

[DubTrub]

...or how I ended up flying with a Puffin from Lyon to Daventry.

Just for completeness, and to satisfy those who have asked me to post my story on this forum, my trip to Estonia went up the swanny the same way as QDM^3's (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=279488), whereby he ended up aiming for Spain, and staying in France. We coincidentally followed QDM^3's route almost exactly, with some of the stops being the same.

Our annual fly-out this year involved two Taylorcraft and a Cessna 150 intending to fly to Scandinavia and Estonia. The lovely European weather decided otherwise, with horrendous weather forecast for our departure day in lower Scandinavia.

So we ended up aiming for Corona, Spain.

We crossed the English Channel from the Needles to Cherbourg (80 miles or so) in typical goldfish bowl conditions, so we used the airways-equipped 150 (yes, you read correctly) as the artificial horizon for the two lesser-equipped taildraggers. At times, we elected to fly low-level (250 feet) to maintain a horizon below low cloud.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4673.reduced.jpg

We cleared customs at Cherbourg, enjoying the lunchtime hospitality of Luc & Edith.

The trip along Utah & Omaha beaches was sobering.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4703.reduced.jpg
( Above: Passing the Mulberry Harbour near Caen)

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4690.reduced.jpg
( Above: D-Day landing beaches)

Heading inland & south, with refuelling stops at Alencon & Le Mans, we spent a night at Bergerac.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Pict0075.reduced.jpg
( Above: Formation departure at Bergerac)

Our Spanish plans turned into a ball of chalk in Bergerac, again due to the weather, so we headed east in France to Carcassonne, where we had a very pleasant few days.

Lots of little villages here from medieval days were constructed on top of hills for protection.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4745.reduced.jpg
( Above: Bergerac region)

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4781.reduced.jpg
( Above: Final at Carcassonne over the Citadel)

What a wonderful place, if a bit over-touristified. Getting fed up with the crowds at the Citadel, we spent a lazy few hours watching the goings-on at the Canal du Midi, including the rather clever wireless-operated locks.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Pict0128.reduced.jpg
( Above: Original 1933 lockgates modified to wireless remote control)

Heading further eastbound, we were again failed by the weather in attempting to reach the Millau bridge by a mere 8 miles, so we carried on to the Rhone valley, where warmer & sunnier climes were to be found.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Pict0153.reduced.jpg
( Above: A lot of the Rhone is a canal to form hydroelectric head)

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4712.reduced.jpg
( Above: Me & buddy John enjoy the sunshine, for once.)

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4730.reduced.jpg
( Above: Everywhere in the Rhone valley is geared up for grape production)

Landing at a small strip just south of Lyon, I call a friend who lives there to see if he is available to come out for a beer. He asks if we happen to have a spare pilot among us to ferry a Supercub back to England, one which got stuck there a few weeks beforehand due to weather.

I reluctantly agree (!) and after a few hours, we are all final for Villefranche to collect said Cub.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4834.reduced.jpg
( Above: Villefranche)

Of course, Adrian is on hand to provide breakfast coffee & croissants (thanks, Adrian!) and in short order, a three-ship becomes a four-ship. I get a rare opportunity to see both my Taylorcraft in the air at once.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4863.reduced.jpg
( Above: Early formation flying experience)

After some 7 hours flying in one day (to beat the weather), we arrive home at Leicester...

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4922.reduced.jpg
( Above: Home!)

...and I later deliver the Cub to a temporary home at a nearby strip at Daventry from where the owner can collect it at his leisure.

http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4926.reduced.jpg
( Above: Tucked up safe and sound with a Maule (which is hidden behind))



...



...



And the Puffin?
http://www.taylorcraft.org.uk/Dscf4901.reduced.jpg
He was sitting on the coaming the whole trip, just making sure I did everything just right.

[lc_aerobatics]

Give us a call on 01959-576-129 and ask for Ben.
This week we should have complete JeppView and other software for trips like this.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Thanks to DubTrub for bringing G-CUBP and the puffin back. I was trying to get to Finland and got stuck in Calais!

It's been a hell of a summer.....