Hi Vis Jackets

[Over_Shoot]

Hi All

I have just been informed by my friendly groundcrew that I really should be wearing a Hi Vis jacket when walking to the aircraft to go flying.

Personnally, anyone who doesn't see/hear an aircraft coming towards them on the pan deserves to get run over. Apart from that I wondered if anyone here knows of any flight safety implications of wearing hi vis jackets near/in aircraft!?

Look forward to the responses

OS

[Gnd]

If you are a civi then the H&S (SHEFF) will vapourise you if you don't have one. In the Mil, you should be more worried about bullets (or bl-unties) so Hi-Viz vests aren't needed - unless - you have a head shed that has no balls!!

A well known Hampshire base had them, then a man took over and they don't any more.

Pooh-Bar to the PC brigade!!!

[ZH875]

I think you will find that most military units MANDATE that Hi-vis vests will be worn, certainly within the Uk and on dets that go west and at least as far east as Cyprus.

[Gnd]

I think you are wrong, they may for people working - but not going to ac

[cornish-stormrider]

G/crew, it was a hanging offence not to wear one. we used to get shiny new ones and age them by washing them in mud OM15 and avtur, very tactical:p

Never saw a grobag wearing gibbon in one, ever......Mind you it was such a long walk from the minibus to the HAS.

[Wensleydale]

At a Lincolnshire airbase, FSW Orders mandate the wearing of hi-vis vests on the dispearsal, and I understand that some groundcrew have fallen foul of the rule. The aircrew "should" wear them, but many refuse because they think that they are above all that (or too idle to put theirs on). The only chap to have been hit by a crew bus while walking on the dispearsal was infact wearing hi-vis and this is used as a reason not to wear it. However, I consider that it is like not wearing a seat belt in the days before compulsion - if you get hit and you were NOT wearing one then I expect that any compensation due would be markedly reduced. Indeed, I expect that the driver would sue you for the distress that your negligence had caused him!

Bottom line - it costs nothing to wear one, so why not - if you get hit you will get more money! Its like the thread on whether to wear gloves or not.

[Colonal Mustard]

I used to keep mine neatly folded in my boot pocket of my flying suit, always donned it on the the apron the minute i left the A/c and only took it off once away from the a/c and where no blind idiots operated i.e off the flightline, it costs nowt to wear one (only 10 seconds to don one) and one day you might be glad you were wearing it........

The fact you have asked the questions suggests doubt, so "if there`s doubt, then theres NO DOUBT":ok:

[antipodean alligator]

I can remember the spams wearing them (flouro belts vice vests) at Ali during Resinate South....They used to call them sniper aiding devices....In fact the real cynics used to wear two crossed over to better mark the heart for the snipers!

All banter aside, we wear a flouro belt to-from the chariot down here nowadays.

[C130 Techie]

Hi Viz vests are mandatory for anyone going on to the pan at Brize.

Lets face it if the movers can hit something as big as a Tristar what hope have we mere human beings got:E

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

I have just been informed by my friendly groundcrew that I really should be wearing a Hi Vis jacket when walking to the aircraft to go flying....yes, but you have to wear the camo hi-viz version so that you don't stand out. :8

[TheWizard]

G/crew, it was a hanging offence not to wear one. we used to get shiny new ones and age them by washing them in mud OM15 and avtur, very tactical

Never saw a grobag wearing gibbon in one, ever......Mind you it was such a long walk from the minibus to the HAS.

Most groundcrew wear one to show who is good with a marker pen and who can do the 'funniest' cartoon/graffiti alongwith 'Spike', 'Baz' 'Newboy', 'Spanner Monkey' etc etc

How did we manage for all those years without them? (Hi viz vests that is!)
If the theory is right, there must have been dead bodies all over the pan for years....

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Aaaaaaaaaaarrghh, you may laugh, but over here in a certain commenwealth country known for excessive politeness, there are indeed cammo field jackets with high vis strips on for those that have to work in an area where hi-viz jackets are required! Hilarious to see!

[Roland Pulfrew]

The aircrew "should" wear them, but many refuse because they think that they are above all that (or too idle to put theirs on).

Or perhaps we think they look f:mad:g stupid on a camouflage uniform!! This is H&SAW madness. Heathrow, maybe - V busy out there. Brize with its one movement every half hour?!?

I saw a bunch of IOT cadets at the College a while ago marching to work. A flight of about 20 of them. They were all in DPM kit and carrying webbing with their high vis jackets draped over the back of each rucksack. Military bearing - I don't think so! The chaps on the back rank might be acceptable, but all of them!!:ugh: :ugh: Grow up, we are supposed to be the military not a bunch of road workers.

I'm with Gnd on this one. HSAW is about risk ASSESSMENT. If you think the risk is already negligable (and lets face it just how many personnel have been run over by aircraft or vehicles on the apron?) then that should suffice. This is another example of jumping on the "civilian best practice" instead of applying common sense. It's all about awareness and application of a bit of common sense.

Oh and as Gnd said, we need a few more men to take over and challenge the HSAW nonsense.

[996]

I was informed recently that one of the reasons for wearing the vest was not only for the obvious H&S rubbish but also for security considerations. not too sure about the logic behind that though.

[Talking Radalt]

not only for the obvious H&S rubbish but also for security considerations. not too sure about the logic behind that though.
Maybe the thinking is we'll all look like policemen, thus deterring any passing intruder.:rolleyes:

[HEDP]

Hi-vis are in for those not walking to crew in to their aircraft where I am despite an engineer having one sucked into rotating components during a ground test.

The H & S nazis didn't think about the loose flappy ends for maintainers when they did their risk assesment for this one.

[Yellow Sun]

Long ago when the RAF first started to go "green" the first Hi Vis feature was the cross of reflective tape applied to our bone domes. One of our number felt that this should be improved upon and wrote an L.G. Groves submission for "Toned Down Reflective Tape". He was however a little concerned when it became apparent that someone further up the food chain was taking it seriously!

I remember the night at Wyton when a crew bus nearly took out a crew on the ORP. Hi Vis vests might have made that less exciting! As was said above there is no doubt that wearing Hi Vis clothing on the ramp at a busy airport is a very wise move regardless of the element of compulsion. But with military operations there will come a time when it is definitely unwise to wear Hi Vis and if you are to operate safely in that environment then people must be fully aware of the problems and difficulties. To do that you must train for it and therin lies the problem, who is going to accept the risk?

Good luck and stay safe.
YS

[A and C]

Hi vis vests on the ramp at night or in very lo vis......... Yes!

Hi vis vests on the ramp on a bright day.........No!

The problem is that this requires thought and the H&S nazis can't let any of us think for our selfs.

[Almost_done]

I think you are wrong, they may for people working - but not going to ac

You should check AESOs old boy, all personnel on the ASP are to wear high viz vests I think you'll find.

[Spurlash2]

Yellow Sun,
Surely the cross of reflective tape on a bonedome is not for "green reasons", but for survival situations when you will require more profile; say, in an evening aquatic survival situation. Aircrew employed on operational Land Manoeuvre malarkey use a strip of 'Harry Black Maskers' to cover up the reflective bits.

This stops the enemy finding you.

At homebase, however, the bowser driver gets a better than even chance to run you down.;)
S2

[Yellow Sun]

Surely the cross of reflective tape on a bonedome is not for "green reasons",
You misunderstood I think. They painted our bone domes green and then put the relective tape on them some time later. The reason is not really relevant, matey's L.G. Groves submission is what it was about.

Unless that is of course you think "Toned Down Reflective Tape" is a really good idea and should be pursued as it would save on the use of black masking tape, could be supplied on a range of colours; green, sand, brown, grey; to match the expected environment etc...

YS:D

[PICKS135]

Seem to remember in the late 70's early 80's we had a roll of RED reflective tape on test. Never did hear the results. White tape was used on helmets when they were white and even on some silver 1A's.

[NRU74]

Dayglo Tabards [a la building site workers] are now often used by shoplifters. They assume, often correctly, that if you are in Tescos, obviously looking as if in gainful employment, trousering high value goods such as razor blades, you are much less likely to be apprehended.
Also a kitchen foil lined shopping bag helps them thru' the exit hoops

[seafuryfan]

A military pilot was fined £1000 at Blackpool or Liverpool Airport for not wearing a high-vis vest on the pan.

230 Sqn now carries vests on board the ac for use on land-aways. Although crews don't wear them locally while walking to or from an ac on a sortie, I wouldn't be surprised if orders state that all personnel are to to wear high-vis vests while on the pan.

[Green Flash]

The spams are dead keen on dayglo Sam Brownes at place's like Al Udied etc

[SET 18]

I don't get this. I am happy to accept that vests are a good idea. But that is just it; I am happy to accept it. I DO NOT need other people to decide it for me. If I choose to wear one because I think it necessary, then I will. That is a long way from making it obligatory that I do because someone else tells me that I should.

If I suffer an accident whilst not wearing one then that is my lookout. I do not think that we should be obliged to wear one at someone else's whim. I know that someone will tell me that, in the event of a criminal proceeding I will be taken to task over this but that is where the whole thing falls down. My right to choose not to wear one is just as important.

[John Eacott]

Seem to remember in the late 70's early 80's we had a roll of RED reflective tape on test. Never did hear the results. White tape was used on helmets when they were white and even on some silver 1A's.

Reflective tape was on Mk1A's in the late 60's :p

Slightly OT, the green helmet/LSJ was partially as a result of helicopter/fighter trials, where the prime aiming points in the helicopters were the white helmets and white gloves, plus one off-colour blade in the Wessex V gave it away from >5nm ;)

3M introduced coloured relective tape in the early/mid 70's, IIRC, and the red stuff was highly prized to "individualise" one's bone dome :)

Back on topic, HiVis vests are mandatory for aircrew at many Oz airports, just another of those things which appear impossible to change :=

[ARINC]

De riguer for Harrier Mates in the 80's to cover the reflective cross with Black Bodge tape.

I also remember a certain exchange Marine with an orange water pistol as a personal weapon ! Oh how times have changed....

[DEL Mode]

Point is an employer has a duty of care to the employee.

H&S is about risk, quite agree.

Who judges the risk?

Your employer (or Unit H&S chap/chapess)

You may not like having to wear a hi-vis vest, but it is not your choice.

If the rules require it then wear one, if they do not, then dont.

If you have an accident (or cause an accident) you will not have a leg to stand on (sorry about the pun)

[The Helpful Stacker]

The problem is that this requires thought and the H&S nazis can't let any of us think for our selfs.

One of the primary reasons for H&S is to stop people having to think about their own welfare as being human we occasionally forget/make mistakes.

In risk assessment the reliance on a human being for the operation of a safe system of work is always deemed the last choice, with removal of the risk, physical barriers and safer alternatives among others are the preferred routes.

Hate H&S if you must but it wasn't too long ago when Crown Immunity ruled the roost and horrific accidents happened often, with no comeback for those injured through MoD negligence.

[Background Noise]

What do you do with a vest when you are flying a small aircraft with no stowage?

Used to be that you could spot the important/significant person on the asp cos they were in the vest - now everbody's wearing them you don't know who's in charge.

The black tape on helemts was to prevent reflections off the inside of the canopy I think.

[Green Flash]

BN
The tabard type vis thing folds up into not very much, it's not your bulky road builders jacket. I've got one lurking in the bottom of a bag somewhere. That said, I agree with those who think that we should decide when/where they are worn. By all means issue them but it would be nice for the grown ups to credit us with a bit of common sense. Might as well issue survival strobes for the pan at night .....:*

[SALAD DODGER]

I was recently asked by an Islamic reporter why all the British pilots had a crucifix on their helmets! (AKA black tape covering the reflective cross)
Not convinced he believed me....Never would have thought of it myself, but when looked at it through his eyes he had a point.

Glad that no one had red tape on a white helmet as mentioned earlier.

[Wensleydale]

My nice shiny white Mk2 bone dome was converted to a Mk4(?) at Valley in 1978 by painting it green and changing the visor from the handle operated internal variety to an external cloth covered double type. I was led to believe that the colour change was due to the reflection in the canopy of the white helmet in the front seat getting in the eyeline of the instructor in the back seat.

[Jackonicko]

A reflective vest is all you need.....?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v613/Jackonicko/Jagsurprise.png

[Pontius Navigator]

And I remember the 'opfor' intruders lying in the long grass on the airfield at night with the RAFP searching for them by the lights if the Landrovers.

Only when there was a near miss was the danger recognised.

But, one asks, are the hi-viz vests cleared for flight? Inflamable? Is there an authorised stowage?

May be there should be a 'dresser' in the groundcrew to dress and undress transient aircrew.:}

[Air Defender]

All rather irrelevant when at Leuchars if you go to supply to ask for said vest as aircrew the response is "Sorry Sir aircrew aren't scaled for a Hi Vis Vest":ugh:

Why not have Dayglo immersion suits like the Gremans?

Or, Heaven Forbid, Dayglo and reflective flying suits for peacetime.Might help you not getting run over on the way home from the bar.

[The Helpful Stacker]

All rather irrelevant when at Leuchars if you go to supply to ask for said vest as aircrew the response is "Sorry Sir aircrew aren't scaled for a Hi Vis Vest"

I suggest you pop back to clothing stores and ask them to show you the 'supplementary safety equipment scales' which are located towards the back of the clothing scales. Items such as hi-viz vests are issued 'as required' and no one is specifically scaled for them as they are issued to task.

Safety equipment is the one item in clothing stores that everyone can make a case for and if you get any grief get your station H&S bod on their case.

[ZH875]

Why not have Dayglo immersion suits like the Gremans?

What!!!.... How the **** do you pose in a Dayglo immersion suit.....What chick factor has that got.....

At least aircrew wouldn't walk around station or Tesco's in one of those, and just think how much the NHS would save, not having to remove flying suits on demob:p

[Gnd]

Almost,

I would love for you to come and quote ALSOP'S or what ever the hell they are at me when I get out of my beast!! And I doubt it would make me bow to the Ann*l H&S idiots. Might find a similar thing with most Army guys, they never seem to bow to bluntie pressure. (I will bow to the Civil side as I have absolutely no wish to offend the people who have to work for a living - H&S need something to do):=

[advocatusDIABOLI]

Perhaps, in the interests of saftey, all FJ aircrew walking out to their jet, should inflate their life vest. This will cover the Hi Vis issue, and also allow vital tracking of their movements by the SAR forces, any trips or minor falls will have added neck protection and the chest is better protected too. In the event of a tidal wave, or sudden increase in sea level, they will also be fully protected.

On entering the cockpit, they must strap in and then eject, to save any time in the event that a stray fuel bowser will roll into their aircraft.

Sorted... a perfectly safe flightline........ :ugh:

Advo

[AC Ovee]

The purpose of the hi-viz vest is derived from busy civvie dispersals where vehicles converge on aircraft from all directions. Although there are dedicated "roads" marked around the dispersals, vehicles do need to leave those lanes to get to the jets. Hence the wise safety rule at civvie airports for hi-viz vests.

Having been to Brize and Lyneham, many times, where MT criss-crosses the dispersals, it would be a good idea to make it mandatory at those airfields for personnel to wear hi-viz vests when not in the immediate vicinity of an aircraft (ie safe from properly driven MT). A rule requiring us to wear a hi-viz vest at all times and in all places on all RAF airfields is flawed.

However, in reply to the guy who says that he will do his own thing: wrong. You do as you're told, even if the rule is flawed.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

'Driver' training perhaps? Make it better, employ better, cause not effect?

Advo

[Over_Shoot]

I thought this subject would provoke some good responses.

I agree with the thought behind the wearing of Hi Vis vests for groundcrew....ear defenders on, concentrating on marshalling/working on an aircraft and thus not really paying attention to other movements.

Walking to and from aircraft. I can't really say that I have much to think about other than getting to and from the aircraft safely, thus maintaining full SA. I was interrupted whilst doing this by groundcrew shouting across the pan to tell me to put on a jacket, therefore distracting me whilst stood in the middle of the operating area....

Stay Safe Kids

[Wader2]

We had the same nonsense with hard hats.

The plumbers wore hard hats but they were not issued to aircrew.

We couldn't wear a bone dome cause then we could not get our heads in awkward corners of the bomb bay.

We were not supposed to wear head dress on the flight line etc etc.

I always wore my forage cap; the amount of crud and stains on it were better there than on my head. I lost count the number of times it was knocked off. Being soft it protected my head but did not damage the aircraft. As my job did not entail running around with the engines running there was no fod hazard.

In fact wearing the original forage caps near aircraft did create a FOD hazard. The clip securing the eagle and crown could work loose and the badge drop off. There was a recall and the military tailors had to ensure the clips were bend back - there was no ban, initially, on wearing them near aircraft.

Although we took responsibility for our own safety it was the early ban on wearing helmets on the flight line that led to my hearing disability! H&S goes round and round like the b:mad: y great wheel.

[advocatusDIABOLI]

So, an embroidered Forage Cap? Smart and Safe?

Advo

[AARON O'DICKYDIDO]

" The only chap to have been hit by a crew bus while walking on the dispearsal was infact wearing hi-vis ..."


:ok:
This reminds me of the time I rolled a Ford Transit van. The only injury I sustained was caused by the First Aid box coming adrift from its fixing and hitting me on the head and causing a trip to the local hospital to have the cut stitched !!!!!!!!!! The MTO was not amused. He had to instigate a mod to keep the First Aid boxes in their place.

[Wader2]

Advo, once suitably adorned with hydraulic oil, sundry c:mad: p, and easy to stow compared with a hard hat.

[Safeware]

I remember one sunny day on the HAS site when my FS collared me for not wearing my hi vis vest. I asked him how he knew it was me from all the way across the HAS site - he saw my Wedgewood blue shirt. Told him that kind of showed why my hi vis vest wasn't needed. :)

sw

[Safety_Helmut]

And there was me thinking it would be becuase you were wearing the cleanest. shiniest, hardly ever used, virginal hi vis vest ever seen on the line.

I walked in from doing a see off one bright sunny afternoon only to be questioned (bollocked) by the Sqn WO as to why I wasn't wearing a hi vis vest ? "Ah", said I, "Eng Wg Orders say you only to need to wear them in conditions of reduced visibility Sir !", to which the WO replied: "never f*cking mind what Eng Wg Orders say, I'm telling you to f*cking well wear them !" he then added that the Crew Chief shambling his way in was in for the same line of questioning. Top bloke !

S_H

[Safeware]

S_H,
No, it was relatively well used, but generally in low vis or at night.

I would have thought you would have had an exemption, having a hi vis head :)

sw

[DON T]

Remember when all RAF vehicles were painted 'tone down'? Then yellow stripes were introduced so you could see them coming. Thank god we've got red fire engines again.:D :D

[Wader2]

You ain't seen nuttin yet.

The new RAF Umbrella is a black foldable automatic brolly emblazoned with the RAF Roundel and the words Royal Air Force.:)













in black :\

[Release-Authorised]

W2,

No doubt its use will be compulsory when encountering a shower. Must take one when I next visit the Navy.......:E

[DummyRun]

Ahh, the beloved hi Viz vest, now the National Costume of Great Britain after 10 years of President Bliar. I think it can look quite smart when worn with a Ratboy baseball cap(peak to the rear obviously), Tasha slapper tracky bottoms and Biffa Bacon boots!
Do they do a Fat Slags version of the hi viz jkt, cropped short to show off spare tyre, stretch marks and belly button piercing?

Load Moving..........

[Op Tastic]

I can't find my Hi-Vis jacket!

[SRENNAPS]

I remember being at TLP, Florennes a few years ago. It was a mass launch of all of the aircraft; the climax of the exercise. The Jengo and I were stood at the top of the line watching the crew-in with great excitement.
I said to the Jengo the following:


“Look at that. The Americans, immaculate in their dark combats with rank and name badges. Professional in their hand signs and salutes. The Germans, again immaculate, German flags on the arms of their jackets. The Italians and French dressed in blue uniforms, extremely smart and professional looking. The Portuguese with their special blue uniforms and gold rank & name badges - highly impressive.
And here on the end of the flight line we have the British – dirty minging and worn out overalls with the arses hanging out of them and grubby crumpled up Hi Vis vests – they look like a bunch of railway workers – not professional airman doing a high profile task in front of other nations ”.


I am not against H&S, on the contrary I think it is essential for a safe working environment. Hi–Vis vests are vital in certain areas. However, when it comes down to Risk Assessment I do think we have lost the plot.

[cornish-stormrider]

Sadly thats the no-win no fee culture in civvy street, and yes the antidote to that is to risk assess the arse out of every single b:mad: d task.......
Unfortunately HM Farces get stiffed worst of all with the "seen to be doing"

has anyone seen a risk assessment for going off to war??

[SRENNAPS]

Sadly totally agree with you cornish-stormrider. The problem is who actually carries out risk assessments. It is certainly not people who work at the front line, it is certainly not people who fly. It is normally people that have no idea of reality in these environments and use the “text book” to apply their rules.

Sadly those in a position to apply reality don’t because they do not want make waves and therefore our outfit becomes more ridiculous every day.

[NutLoose]

Funnily enough, now everyone and his dog runs around wearing them you are more likely to get noticed NOT wearing one.

[Almost_done]

Sadly those in a position to apply reality don’t because they do not want make waves and therefore our outfit becomes more ridiculous every day.

Or perhaps they do try to apply some common sense to the world, but the powers that be hold sway and rule with a clunking fist. They then wait for the wheel to go full circle again after 2 yrs on the all change cycle, but give up eventually due to all the other detrius coming down from on high.

[Safeware]

Just a last thought on this, which may put things in perspective (and I do believe that there are many areas of H&S where perspective has been lost). One of the factors in risk management is the Value of Prevented Fatality (VPF), put crudely, what is the limit you are prepared to spend to save a life.

Now, if a hi vis vest costs £5 and the RAF buys 50 000 pa, it has cost £250 000. If , for simplicity sake, the VPF is £1m and you show that by spending £250 000 you save even one life every 4 years, you have 'broken even' so to speak. So why shouldn't it be done? The family of airman x, killed by a crew bus when he wasn't wearing one will be asking the same "Why?" questions that Tappers Dad, Nigegilb etc etc are asking (and they have my sympathy and support), and why not? If it is reasonably practical, then do it.

sw

[Flashdance9]

In the civvy world (flight training school) we've been told not to wear our hi-vis jackets on inside the cockpit (of a light training aircraft) as they present a fire hazard! :eek:

[John Eacott]

Of course, if you're an Air Ambo driver, you get to wear the whole kit, regardless of cockpit reflections :hmm:

North West Air Ambulance advert. (http://www.whitenoiseonline.com/uploads/NWAA3.mpg)

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh!]

Now, if a hi vis vest costs £5...except that only reflects the purchase price, there's the initial trial, the procurement documentation, the lawyers needed to create the contract, plus the distribution system, replacement strategies need to be created, adequate stocks need to be ordered and issued, with a sufficient reserve kept on hand, then they need to do a study to see if the vest meets the expected level of service: how long does it last? do the buttons fall off? do we stock more buttons or simply replace the unit in toto? are defective ones returned to the vendor or scrapped? Is it even the correct colour of orange? ... or shold they be a billious light green?

Then there has to be a team to measure the effectiveness, was any life actually saved? was any life lost despite the vest? how do we know? What logging system needs to be in place to verify the cost effectiveness and what are the review parameters for this? Wjo gets the figures reported to them and what do they do with them? How long do they store them?

Then there's the actual time required to don and doff 50,000 units go on before breakfast and come off at night every day, even if it only takes 1.2 seconds that's erm... 60,000 seconds a day, which is 1000 minutes which is about two man days. How does that get paid for? or tracked? :E

[diginagain]

The way things are going over here, do you think there'll be anyone left to wear them?

Nice to see you're back, BTW. Lends a bit of much-needed balance to the place.

[Blacksheep]

Yawn :hmm:

Everyone here in Borneo is obliged to don a Hi-viz when going "airside". We have Hi-viz vests stowed in the aircraft for crew use when necessary. They do seem a bit like overkill, but its all to do with the employer's duty of care. Duty of care? What's that then? Well, we're civilians you see, and thus a bunch of touchy-feely wimps.


BZN 197something. I forget; but the miners were on strike and the 'three day week' was in operation - for everyone except we military chaps. Group HQ decreed that to save electricity, the floodlights would be turned off. A rigger walks out from LSS stores and heads out across the pan to attend to a sick VC10 - just as a crew bus turns the corner and races across the pan...

The driver never saw anything, just heard the thud.

Unfortunately the rigger wasn't killed outright. He merely suffered permanent brain damage, converting him into a vegetable. So, his life insurance didn't pay out and his family was reduced to penury. The RAF in its boundless generosity discharged him on medical grounds and subsequently ignored him.
As they always do.

"The driver never saw anything"?? Well we didn't have Hi-Viz vests in those days. It was the rigger's own fault. Apparently, with all the pan floodlights off he should have been paying proper attention, seen the bus coming and jumped out of the way.

Group HQ never rescinded the order to turn off the floodlights, either.

[L1011GE]

The first batch were sent with zippers in the front and had to be returned as the zipper was a FOD hazard..

Now how about the ones with popper studs on them?

[vecvechookattack]

How is a zippper a FOD hazard? How many Engines have been FODed by a zip....and if thats the case, why is there a bloomin great big Zip all the way down my Flying Ovvies?

[ZH875]

...why is there a bloomin great big Zip all the way down my Flying Ovvies?Why? VVHA, do you think you could manage with a TINY Zip. :p


The Zip on the growbags has been made to a far higher standard than the basic zip on the early Hi-Vis, therefore there is no percieved FOD hazard from the growbags (except for the mountain of pens, chinagraphs and pencils collected over the years from aircrew dropping them in aircraft)

[pigsinspace]

"""(except for the mountain of pens, chinagraphs and pencils collected over the years from aircrew dropping them in aircraft)"""

and forgetting to admit the loss?

The zips came off in your hand when doing the vest up thats why they were a FOD hazard..

[LFFC]

I'm not really sure that I like the idea, but why not just change the colour of the green flying suits to orange or something high viz? It strikes me that when we go to war these days we need sand coloured flying suits, so why do we still need green for non-operational flights? Green was great when we were planning to fight in northern Europe, but things have changed.

:ouch:

[ZH875]

I refer the Honorable LFFC to post #41 of this thread, regarding aircrew and non green posing suits.

[Safeware]

Zips? Poppers?

My hi vis vest from 1993 had velcro.

sw

[ZH875]

Mine has a gap in the middle, so neither Zip, poppers or buttons would be of any use.....:p

[LFFC]

ZH875

Sadly, I don't think green really has the "pulling power" that you seem to think it has. Orange never seemed to hinder any of my German pals and red doesn't appear to be much of a problem for the "Reds".

[ZH875]

LFFC, who said green HAD pulling power, it's just that some growbag wearers THINK it has, especially when worn with sunglasses in Tesco's etc.

The jerries win on the accent, the Reds win on - well they are the Reds, the rest just lag behind the Harrier Ego bubble.:)

[WhiteOvies]

Velcro for vests definately the winner (if able to meet in middle!:} ). Anything harder (such as zips/poppers) tends to scratch the canopy when you're cleaning them (on my aircraft type anyway!).

[5206]

As it doesn't cause much hardship, isn't it easier to wear one, and if you find yourself in a situation where you think it increases another risk, then don't wear it but make sure it is noted.

ps, diginagain, who where you refering to - people either seem to be 'dos' or don'ts?

5206

[Kaptain Kremen]

Oh no........it's gone too far.....:E

http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb62/mrsock_photos/hi_viz.jpg