UAV operators now can get aviation awards

[hoodie]

From the (US) Army Times (http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/04/army_UAV_awards_070403w/).

Soldiers who operate unmanned aerial vehicles now are eligible for award of the Aviation Badge, Distinguished Flying Cross and Air Medal.


The Distinguished Flying Cross is a prestigious decoration that ranks just behind the Silver Star as a valor medal. It is awarded for heroism or extraordinary achievement.

The Air Medal is awarded for heroism, outstanding achievement or meritorious service. It ranks behind the Bronze Star, but in front of the Army Commendation Medal.

[FFP]

Nothing wrong in rewarding someone who puts their b@lls on the line .......11,000 miles away in an iso container in Nevada ;)

[Gainesy]

How pathetic can you get?:yuk:

[PPRuNeUser0211]

Awww it's like cub scouts... you can get an "aviation badge"!:)

[DME MILOS]

DFC - Didn't Fly Courageously? :)

[PredatorB]

Gainsey,

Why? Do Tell.....

[Gainesy]

In my opinion, it debases the awards.

[Mr Point]

Flying awards for not flying. Exactly how does that work?:bored:

[Fast but Safe]

Guys, I would not be too worried about medals being dished out just for being able to breath. The majority of the time, our American friends hand them out in mass because they love to look like they've been the ones that have done all the work! Of course there are many that deserve the recognition.

http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/display/usa.htm

and that's just scratching the surface...

If you're UK military and have shiny clinky things on your No1's then just know that you've deserved them. But please.....don't get wound up about those over the pond, you know what they're like.

FbS

[TheComputerDood]

While I tend to agree that the threat to Life and Limb is reduced by UAV operators not being in the cockpit, their job is to protect their ship, and possible the lives they are assigned to monitor. Show me a UAV pilot that uses a Hellfire to take out an enemy position to save some friendlies, then I think he deserves some recognition.

Not being a combat pilot, I will never know that fear or the courage that it takes to enter into enemy territory, being shot at with FLAK, or AAA, in order to take out objectives that could possibly save lives. On the other hand, if, as a UAV operator (Which I Am Not) could accomplish the same thing thousands of miles away, should there be some feeling of accomplishment? There is skill involved on both fronts.

Most people feel that pilots are larger than life people, Captain of the Team, Great Athletes, who have taken years to hone the skills necessary to fly on the edge, to take risks, and get rewards. I guess people would feel cheated to reward some Cheeto's eating Video freak fat guy, who happens to be really good at piloting (if we can use that word) a UAV half way around the world. If he does do something "Accidently" heroic, and prevents loss of life, we would feel cheated that he would receive a medal?

They say the new "XBOX" generation, the people how have grown up playing video games may make better UAV pilots, since they have already grown up having that "Suspension of Belief" drilled into their psyches. Can we call them heroes? Only if they go above and beyond the call to duty. Does that mean that they can only be rewarded if they themselves are in harms way?:ugh:

[Number2]

I worked with Predator operators on the ground in the western Iraqi desert. I really think you shouldn't belittle their operations without the full picture. Just my opinion.

[ZH875]

Show me a UAV pilot that uses a Hellfire to take out an enemy position to save some friendlies, then I think he deserves some recognition.

So what medal will the guy who sweeps the floor at the electricity generating station, that provides the power to enable the chimp to fly a UAV and release a missile to take out a few enemy and save a few friendlies get?.

After all, he is an important link in the chain.

Then: What medal will his wife get for feeding him and keeping him fit?

And what medal his mommy & daddy get for creating him?

as Gainsey said "How pathetic can you get?:yuk:"

[GreenKnight121]

Recognition... YES

Awards for actions performed... YES

The same medal that has always been given out for deeds performed at risk of one's own life and limb... HE]] NO!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Sgt, USMC 1981-1989

[ZH875]

GreenKnight121, I dont think many people could argue against your statement.

[BEagle]

"The US Army Warrier and UK Watchkeeper will be flown by artillery gunners..."

Not in UK airspace they won't - at least, not outside active Danger Areas.
Not only are these things to be operated by pilots, but those pilots will also need appropriate instrument flying qualifications in the future if the UAV world expands.

A few years ago some grunt-operated UAV nearly took out an airliner inbound to Basra or Baghdad or somewhere similar - the army had no idea about airspace coordination restrictions.

Whilst UAVs have their place, I do get the feeling that their proponents are pushing their ideas forward with indecent haste and inadequate consultation.

[JustT]

"So what medal will the guy who sweeps the floor at the electricity generating station, that provides the power to enable the chimp to fly a UAV and release a missile to take out a few enemy and save a few friendlies get?.

After all, he is an important link in the chain."

"The guy who sweeps the floor" is as vital a link in the chain that gets a manned aircraft into a position to carry out a heroic act as he is getting a UAV there. However, he isn't the one who should be decorated anymore than the pilots' parents should be.

With the increase in technology aircrew are continuing to become more remote from the action on the ground. There is relatively little skill or courage required to guide an LGB from a level release in typical desert conditions let alone program an EPWII to strike a target through cloud. With the introduction of PWIV in a few years time the necessity to get up close and personal will be virtually removed from the ground attack role and the only time you will see the whites of the enemies eyes is through your next generation targeting pod (certainly not TIALD) or when you unload the gun in a dive. In the not too distant future will we see an end to acts worthy of recognition? I think not!

The mortal peril to aircrew will remain, manned flight will forever be a risky venture and the SAM threat will always be there. However, in the future combat arena these risk will be reduced as low as practically possible through the use of Stealth technologies, Stand-off weapons and UAVs to neutralise an IADS and provide localised air superiority. As the threat to aircrew is reduced/negated there will still remain a need to get stores on target in a timely fashion at the behest of the ground commander. Perhaps it is this that should be recognised. When pinned down I'm sure your average soldier doesn’t care whether the ordnance is delivered from a UAV or a manned aircraft, all he cares about is that it gets there as quickly as possible.

On current rostering Predator aircrew are involved on operations 6 days out of 9 spending longer on station than any current RAF fixed wing asset (hats off to the SH Force who work harder than the rest of us put together). With the imminent arrival of MQ-9 “Reaper” into service there will be 24hour+ persistence with as varied a payload as the GR7/9 carries and the best integrated targeting/reconnaissance system the RAF possesses. It may not do a fantastic rolling display at airshows or be able to fly backwards but if you want an asset to support the troops on the ground in our current theatres of operations then the MQ1/9 is a pretty good choice.

The DFC is awarded for “an act or acts of valour, courage or devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy". Currently a UAV can no more operate or deliver ordnance without a crew than a manned aircraft can. The operators on the ground are as intimately involved in “flying” as airborne aircrew are and should receive recognition in just the same manner. That is why aircrew at Nellis still wear their brevets and flying suits and receive their retention bonuses. Just because the control station is an air-conditioned iso-container thousands of miles away doesn’t mean that the aircrew aren’t 100% mission orientated, working 100% of the time for the guys on the ground and will pull out all the stops to make sure the troops survive their tour of duty. And finally, for 4 months of the year the aircrew are sitting on Iraqi or Afghani airbases getting mortared by insurgents/Taliban so you can’t say they aren’t devoted to their duty.

Should UAV aircrew be eligible for aviation medals, undoubtedly.

[Raymond Ginardon]

The Flying Bravery Medal is hereby awarded to Maj B Rave for action against the enemy.

Whilst literally only 11,000 miles from enemy territory he sat fast as several angry text messages from insurgents were sent to his mobile phone. In the heat of battle, as his right arm reached out to press the weapon release switch, his cup of coffee was dislodged and spilt down his right upper thigh. Without regard for the ragingly mild discomfort of the hot fluid, he wiped the sweat from his brow (it should be noted that he was operating WITHOUT proper air conditioning in that the thermostat was stuck at 27 deg C) and reached for the weapon release switch, successfully depressing it.

The weapons release switch, which functioned perfectly during the battle, was designed and built by Lt S Witch. Lt Witch, for his part in this encounter, is hereby awarded the Pilot-Machine Interface Medal. Lt Witch was on holiday in Sri Lanka during the engagement, but will be returning to collect his medal later this month.

[Ivan Rogov]

JustT, I guess from your location you are on a UK UAV posting, reading your post I'd guess you have sunstroke. UK MQ-9 armed? Will 2 of them give 24hr+ endurance on task (inc. transit and serviceability)?

So are you saying UAV aircrew sitting in Iraqi or Afghani airbases getting mortared by insurgents/Taliban are exposed to higher risk than anyone else inside the wire? If so I doubt you have been on the ground in either theatre, granted getting mortared is no fun but compared to the guys and gals stepping outside the wire, now they deserve extra recognition! Rostered 6 days out of 9, what do you do after your shift? That's better than my UK shift pattern, in theatre it's 12 on, 12 off for many people.

You seem to be suggesting that UAV operators should get extra recognition for endurance and remotely getting weapons on target, isn't that the job?

The US have lost over 40 preds (I think), some in "combat". I'm guessing none of the operators were injured, because that is the major point of UAVs to remove the risk to the crew!

So what happens when UAVs become autonomous, will the computer get the medals or the programmer?


Just checked my dictionary -

VALOUR; Strength of mind or sprit that enables somebody to encounter danger with firmness; personal bravery

DANGER; Exposure to the possibility of injury, pain or loss

If you want lots of shiny stars try McDonalds.:yuk: (I hear they are recruiting FJ Navs)

[PICKS135]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v379/f4phixeruk/ThunderD-1.jpg

Thunderturkeys 2020

[Two's in]

It's like the difference between being in the Sim at night with one engine out, 200' cloud break, 2 miles viz in a monsoon, and doing the same thing for real -only one of those conditions makes the hair on the back of your neck stand up and your nuts to go somewhere up around your adam's apple. It's all about the physiological sensations of personal and imminent danger, something a UAV Operator will never experience flying a drone, however skilled they are.

[FFP]

I have to agree with everything JustT has written.
My feelings though revolve around the remoteness of the task performed, which without a doubt brings a valuable asset to the battlefield, period.

Let's discuss the case of someone operating from Nellis.

Should medals be awarded that use qualifying criteria with terms such as courage, bravery and valour for someone who faces no danger and the risk of injury / death ?

Does it mean Predator Operators are NOT all those things ? Of course not. Hell, most of those guys have been on Ops themselves.

I'm not belittling the job being done, nor it's importance.

But the fact that you're removed from the theatre physically affords you a greater level of protection and safety than the guy in an A-10 or Harrier that's mixing it up amongst the fire which must change the actions you take and affect the decisions you make, to a more risk taking attitude than a conservative. Not suggesting you're reckless with the UAV's but you would do things with it that you might not do with your aircraft for fear of losing your life.

As an example, you might be awesome at Microsoft Combat Sim and will have a go at anything, taking on 4 aircraft whilst low on fuel and fight to the bitter end. Doesn't mean you'd do the same when placed in the real life situation though.

I'm not trying to compare the important job that Predator guys do with a computer game. I know a few of the guys there, and they are professional, good at their jobs and are the type that if they could be there in the thick of it, they would be. But I just feel that awarding medals for bravery etc devalues it for the Harrier mate or whoever that gets one for the same actions.

Parting Question. If you get a medal for flying Ops as a Predator Pilot, can you get the Tax free allowance for those day you flew in theatre ? ;)

[ShyTorque]

The award will be known as the:

Remotely Enabled Military Flight medal.

(I think that's what R.E.M.F. stands for :E ).

[JustT]

Ivan Rogov - Currently UK crews at Nellis operate as part of a combined Predator force using US airframes which have been armed for some time and Brits have been called on to use lethal force. They operate a large fleet on round the clock ops. Will the RAF be able to manage sustained 24 ops by themselves with 2 Reapers? Unlikely for the reasons you stated but are we ever likely to be operating outside the combined environment in the foreseeable future? As far as arming it goes, I don’t have any info either way but IMHO why actively recruit a mix of crews from ISTAR and GR backgrounds and purchase a more expensive system (than MQ-1) that’s primary advantage over it’s predecessor is that it was designed as a hunter-killer from the outset? Draw your own conclusions.

I didn't mean to imply that aircrew members of the launch and recovery teams are any more at risk than anyone else inside the wire and they are certainly safer than those who have to venture outside the relatively safe environs of a DOB. It's is just that the picture painted by most is of a cushy REMF posting when it isn't always so. If the Predator program was based out of Machrihanish or Saxa Vord instead of Nevada would it come in for as much stick?

The roster is set at a responsible level to allow the crew to remain alert throughout their period of duty. I know most people in theatre are working long shifts and certainly the FJ guys get less than 3 days off in 9, but that is the year round working routine at Nellis. Deployed crews step up their work rate OOA as much as those moving onto a 12 hour shift pattern.

Certainly the fast and pointy jets in theatre can't achieve anywhere near the same persistence or extended levels of concentration the Predator can. Sure the chairs are more Barkerlounger than Maritn-Baker but it is the fact that operating conditions are less arduous that allows for longer operating hours without fatigue. The fast jet boys and girls do a fantastic job day in day out providing the effects required, kinetic or otherwise, but with the best will in the world they can’t maintain true round the clock operations. UAVs currently compliment, not replace, traditional manned aircraft in a variety of airpower roles and judging by our protracted procurement system will continue to do so for the foreseeable future.

Should UAV aircrew get recognition for endurance and remotely getting weapons on target? No, no more so than anyone should get an honour for just doing their job. However, where do you draw the line between your job and going above and beyond? When tasked on a high priority/high risk mission are you just doing your job? If the V force had ever launched knowing they would never return would they all have got VCs for “most conspicuous bravery, or some daring or pre-eminent act of valour or self-sacrifice, or extreme devotion to duty in the presence of the enemy?” Or were they just doing their job? Yes, I am being slightly facetious but why can’t a UAV pilot show “devotion to duty whilst flying in active operations against the enemy?” But your not flying I hear you all cry but as I previously stated, currently a UAV can no more fly and operate effectively without a crew than a manned aircraft can. Ok then, could a UAV pilot operating from another aircraft (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EquipmentAndLogistics/PilotlessPassengerJetFlownRemotelyByRafInWorldFirst.htm (http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/DefenceNews/EquipmentAndLogistics/PilotlessPassengerJetFlownRemotelyByRafInWorldFirst.htm)) be eligible for a DFC for guiding their UAV to defend pinned down troops in some corner of a foreign field? They may well receive recognition if they programmed a relatively dumb GPS guided bomb to strike the target, so why not for controlling a more sophisticated weapon system to do the same task? So why not if that weapon system was controlled via a satellite link from another airborne asset operating hundreds of miles away? So why not if that weapon system was operated by an unstressed crew in an air-conditioned, 1g environment with full situational awareness of the developing battle, comms with those on the ground, all the worlds int available at the click of a mouse button, access to advisors on LoAC and RoE and (firmly tongue in cheek) a Starbucks round the corner? You don’t have to suffer yourself to make a big difference to others.

I must agree though that it would be impossible for a UAV crew to be awarded a medal for valour as there just isn’t the mortal danger to be overcome. VCs are therefore out of the question but I don’t believe that other awards should be ruled out merely on grounds of remoteness.

Finally I’m not on a UK UAV posting but I do have a healthy interest in an expanding capability within the RAF. The future is coming and not everyone likes the way it looks but that won’t change it. UAVs give us the capability to do the job without risking lives unnecessarily, is that such a bad thing? Many of those who chose/are chosen to do the job have flown on operations in FJ/AT/AH/SH and will return there after their tour. Should they be vilified for the decision to contribute effectively and for a prolonged period to UK operations? Or should they not have the possibility of being recognized for their efforts?

[In Tor Wot]

JusT - agree with what you say.

The Distinguished Flying Cross is a prestigious decoration that ranks just behind the Silver Star as a valor medal. It is awarded for heroism or extraordinary achievement.

The Air Medal is awarded for heroism, outstanding achievement or meritorious service. It ranks behind the Bronze Star, but in front of the Army Commendation Medal.

Ivan Rogov
Quote: You seem to be suggesting that UAV operators should get extra recognition for endurance and remotely getting weapons on target, isn't that the job?

How many of those dropping SS during TELIC were given an award?
All they did was take off, go to a drop point (well away from defences), release and RTB - where's the personal risk - or was it an award for outstanding achievement or meritorious service

Don't get too wrapped around the axle of air conditioning and swivel chairs, the real issue is the technical competence of the pilot, sensor operators and analysts to provide the desired effect at the desired time.

BTW - When persistence is taken into account, how many GR4/9s would it take to conduct a continuous 24hr mission?

[Algy]

We asked this question on the Flight poll at the end of last year. For the record, here's the result:


Should US-based operators of unmanned air vehicles that are flying in Afghanistan receive campaign medals?
YES, THEY'RE STILL IN COMBAT.
25%
NO, THERE'S NO JUSTIFICATION.
75%
Total Votes: 803
Poll ended on: 10 November 2006

[Fat Reggie]

Because when he crashes they bash his face into the instrument panel for effect.

[midsomerjambo]

Well one good thing I always thought about our forces was that we didn't get medals for nothing. In 13 years I didn't get a single one and do I feel bitter about that? No I don't - no-one ever tried to kill me. I recall bombing comps with our US mates where there were guys who were just out of training and had a full row of ribbons on there tunic (passing out of training got a medal FFS). I and most of my colleagues just thought it was silly, and I still do. Sitting in an ISO and doing a grand job protecting the troops - yeah, hats off. Medal for bravery though - do me a favour!

[Ivan Rogov]

JustT –
Interesting point on the crew mix for the RAF MQ-9s, I believe they wanted FJ experience (Skill and SA?) to reduce the risk of loosing an airframe, time will tell. I think it’s obvious why they would want ISTAR chaps on an ISTAR asset. Are our crews over qualified? Who do the US crew Predator with, what are thier backgrounds?

My conclusion on selection of the MQ-9 is that our Chiefs have put us in a position where we lack ISTAR through bad planning (Partly by cutting existing assets), we urgently need extra ISTAR, when they asked how the problem could be solved the answer probably came back saying we want Predator ASAP. But too many Wheels got involved, and in classic UK Procurement style instead of buying more of the established, lower cost, less risk MQ-1, they end up buying less of the new, expensive, unproven MQ-9 which are likely to suffer delays and set backs, quite a risk when you only have 2 (It’s only just coming into service with the US!)

In no way was I giving the Predator program any “stick”, I think the 1115flt exchange is one of the most positive things the RAF has done in the last decade.
Why would individuals be vilified on return to the UK? They can be recognized like anyone else if their efforts merit it, I would say there are many other postings which contribute effectively for prolonged periods which are much lower profile with less chance of recognition and none of the possible advantages.

I’m not against crews getting the appropriate medals for exceptional work, it was the criteria you mentioned for the DFC which I disagreed with. Anyone else ever been on Ops where the DetCom seems to gets one for FA? I don’t think it would be correct to get the theatre medals unless you are physically present, in my opinion it should be clear which medals apply to potential of physical harm to the individual and which recognise exceptional work. Are all medal criteria clear or do they need clarifying as technology advances?

UAVs certainly have an increasingly important part to play as technology evolves, current compromises in thier design for payload, speed, endurance, manoeuvrability, etc. and the massive amount of bandwidth needed to operate each one limit their current use and investment has to be measured against what they can really offer not just the sales pitch. They are not always the only option or first choice for some of our current missions.

[PredatorB]

Ivan et al,

Remember the MQ-1 is an ISTAR platform that has a strike capability, whereas the MQ-9 is a Strike platform that has an ISTAR capability. You might find that your RAF bought the latter for good reason.

We employ sensor operators who utilise and manage the sensors (obviously), and the pilot (being commissioned) holds the hammer on ROE, captaincy and weapon release authorisation etc. - Our sensor ops are mainly snr airmen, whereas your RAF, I believe will use very experienced aircrew for the right seat (and for good reason I might add). Such experience is invaluable.

BTW, FAA requires a rated PILOT to captain the air vehicle in FAA airspace - hence we do not allow Joe Grunt to 'fly' it. Fare paying public deserve such airspace sharing.

[BEagle]

Whilst the 'observability' of the MQ-9 is doubtless classified, anything which chugs along at 70 KIAS and 25000ft would be pretty easy meat for an enemy with nothing more sophisticated than a few old Strikemasters, surely?

[PredatorB]

I didn't think anyone would wish to utilise them as a first strike option, but they might be handy in cleaning the mess after all forces mix it in the aftermarth. Kinda helps a little in the fog of war - me hopes. Have you seen a 'rover' laptop?

[Ivan Rogov]

Pred B,
I don’t think the RAF brought it for strike, the UK urgently needs more ISTAR. They might hope to use the strike capability but the UK already has strike assets available. Isn't this supposed to be a short term fix until UK UAV programs mature in 20??, otherwise we might as well cancell them an buy more Bs (Which I would agree with)

I think you are correct about our crews experience (Probably a good idea with only have 2) but it goes against some of the major justifications for UAVs, i.e: cost and training. I agree that UK UAV drivers should be pilots and also RAF (The Army just don’t appreciate airspace issues) but they don’t need training to FJ standard (MQ-9 max AOB of 30 degrees or so and +/- 1000ft min?) maybe more PPL+ and in depth training on airspace, etc. There could even be a case for NCO pilots, after all it all comes down to cost.

AFAIK Pred B does much better than 25k ft @ 70kts, but is it really a strike platform with an ISTAR capability, and not the other way round? I have heard it described as having F16 like capability, but I think that is just the sales pitch, the problem with new toys is they are always over hyped. Now UCAV is (was) what I would call strike, but that capability is a few years if not decades away.

Quote -
I didn't think anyone would wish to utilise them as a first strike option, but they might be handy in cleaning the mess after all forces mix it in the aftermarth. Kinda helps a little in the fog of war - me hopes. Have you seen a 'rover' laptop?

Well you want ISTAR to clear up the fog of war not strike. Yes I have seen Rover laptop it doesn’t only use UAVs .

Sorry if I have deviated from the thread a bit, I will stop now and get a life :ok:

[Ivan Rogov]

$59M for 4, that's a very good deal. At that price maybe we should bin the UK UAV projects and get some more?

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/2007/05/59m-for-4-more-mq9-reaper-uavs/index.php

[35Kilo20]

The US Army doesnt award air medals to UAS operators nor flight pay, we do recieve a crew members aviation badge. WE DONT FLY FROM NEVADA, WE FLY FROM IRAQ AND AFGHANISTON. Im a NCO not an Officer and came from a communications background served for 7 years and going on 30 months in iraq and retrained into Aviation due to the need of NCOs for the massive UAS expansion in the US army and at the end of my training for the I-gnat will have gone through 12 months of training and hundreds of flight hours. Its not unheard of for a soldier to get 2000+ flight hours in Iraq. Im just glad were finally sticking it to the Air Farce with the Warrior since they cant support us, and havent since Korea and WW2. I could care less about Medals all i care about is supporting the Infantry Soldier/Marine regardless of nationality.

[Wrathmonk]

Well if its medals for all on the basis of supporting the effort does that mean that all those poor barstewards down the bunker on the Ops Teams various at PJHQ (been there, done that) will finally get the recognition for their work?

And to think that MOD saw UAVs as a spend to save measure as they wouldn't have to pay for all the routine honours and awards anymore:E

[Green Flash]

In an ISO in Baghdad/Basra/Balad etc under a hail of 107's and similer sh!t, praying that Mr C-RAM has got the force field up - well, they might have a point. In an ISO in Nevada? - hmmmm .....

[danieloakworth]

If we're only giving medals for bravery, then does that mean we can't give any to assets that don't wander sausage side. Not overly familiar with current ops, but I guess in past events that would have ruled out the tanker boys and the E3 crews.

[Runaway Gun]

Where exactly do you think the tankers fly then? :mad:

[The Helpful Stacker]

Indeed, haven't a few VC10 crews gone a little above and beyond the stereotype to get bombing aircraft closer to their targets?

[danieloakworth]

Not having a go at Tanker guys, just pointing out that the concept of bravery is a little wider than some on here credit.

[Pontius Navigator]

I know three gunners.

Trust them? The only one I trusted was Brigadier Thompson.

[rayleighs]

I'm a uav operator. I think one thing you've failed to take into account is that just because we're eligible to receive an award doesn't mean we'll actually get it. I've saved a lot of lives with the skills I've learned, but I've never so much as gotten a commendation medal. Even if I was put in for an air medal, there's always someone in the chain of command that feels like you do, and would throw it away because I didn't put my life on the line.

Military Intelligence never gets any credit, and we're used to it. Don't get excited because we're 'authorized' to earn a medal.

[Bumble B]

Chill everyone. The day of the pilotless/operatorless UAV is upon you. So it may be Joe 90 in his 'black' garrett that will be getting the gongs ! How and who says so ? Andrew Wilson of BAE Systems, Air Systems Division, the Autonomous Systems and Future Capability (air) branch is quoted as saying about his new UAV's "These are not remotely piloted vehicles - they are truly autonomous operating air vehicles." ...... " The skills needed to be taught for these vehicles are more in mission planning and monitoring, not in control of a joy stick."

[Chris Kebab]

not really a topic for PPRune really then:)

[ZH875]

Military Intelligence

I was going to say that you cannot use American Military Intelligence, but as it's time for the Friday Joke, you can get away with it.:O

[enginesuck]

Flying awards for not flying. Exactly how does that work?

Probably in a similar way to flying pay:*