BAA queues to continue - but its being resolved

[manintheback]

worth a new thread as its important info:

Read here

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6501603.stm

I suspect the CAA having leant on BAA has finally forced them to do something about it (and the immigration too I hope). Shame its going to take so long, and truly pathetic this situation has existed for some years.

My arrival into T4 on Monday am, from Plane to Door of airport took over one hour - passport queues were just horrendous and the fasttrack is for non UK only (grrrr)

By the way, 2 long hauls in 4 weeks with BA - excellent service on all 4 legs. Seems the game has been raised - well done. The club revamp cant come soon enough tho.

[hapzim]

UK airports operator BAA said yesterday it is spending an additional £40 million ($78.5 million) to hire 1,400 extra security guards and open 22 new security lanes across its seven airports in order to reduce lines to 5 min. or less "95% of the time." It also said it is planning a "multibillion-pound investment program" that will "add vital new facilities, improve existing terminals and add significantly to the UK's overall airport capacity" by 2012. CEO Stephen Nelson said that "the onus is on the regulatory authorities to deliver the stable regulatory system and sensible financial incentives necessary to deliver these plans." BAA did not elaborate.

From another site.

But it needs to be done asap especially at LGW south terminal.:ugh:

[Suppers Ready]

I went in and out of Gatwick yesterday.
Don't know if I caught in and out at a good time but security was a just a walk through - no queues, smiling and helpful security staff.

SR

[touch&go]

Quote: "will add vital new facilities",

What more shops?

[slingsby]

totally banal interview
BAA have been actively recruiting for years to reduce the staffing shortfall, the problem is with the current CRB/CTC system is just too slow and outdated, it takes an average 6-8 weeks to be processed if by snail trail.

BAA have been bleeding staff for a number of years now, yes Nelson is right that the authorities need new and reliable factors, but not financial, BAA is now a private and non UK company now, so there is no investment opportunity (not yet anyway). The average component for recruitment in BAA, is interview 500, weed out the test failures (250), CRB and CTC weeding, brings it to around 150, training starts somewhere around 6/8 weeks, by that time others have found other positions (better salary and benefits/hours), taking it down to last know and discussed figure of around 70. So across all the airports and terminals, the actual number of recruited staff is neglible, compared with the tide of leavers, retirees and others. So the bleed outstrips the infusion.

The new LHR facilities, as far as I have been briefed is just a refurb of T4 and T1, with Terminal East being developed and built over the next 10 years.
Stable regulatory system, sorry situation too fluid. Its all in the adapting of the regulations to suit conditions and facilties. Financial incentives, I think this was a cry from Ferrovial that they now realise what an elephant BAA is and was. 22 extra lanes across all 7 airports ( 7 airports = 12 terms ~ 1.1 lane per terminal )

[Zurg]

I commute a couple of times a month through Gatwick South and I dread it. last 2 times the queue has been three quarters of the way around the South terminal. Shameful.

[POL.777]

Try VP9 in STN. Security for crew there is just a hazzle. I know it has to be done, but come on, there is a crash axe in the flight deck, do you really think my evian and pret a manger sandwich would be my weapon of choice??? Kudos to the Norwegian chap who finally had to much of all this.

Fly safe.

[Pax Vobiscum]

Stephen Nelson (BAA CEO) was interviewed on BBC Radio 4's Today programme this morning. He claimed that queues were already "less than 5 minutes" "80% of the time".

Now, I take care to avoid peak periods whenever possible, but I've never seen a security queue at LHR T1 that's less than 5 minutes - friends who unluckily have to travel at peak periods assure me that they're often more than 30 minutes. I think the trick here is that LHR is open nearly 20 hours a day, but I would bet that 80% of travelers pass through during a few peak hours. So it would be easy to claim good statisitics 80% of the time, while 80% of travelers were experiencing long queues. (If you see what I mean!)

[WHBM]

A few points :

1. Why the huge extra problems over Easter ? We all know that Heathrow operates each day of the year with 100% usage of runway slots and that, contrary to what gets written in the press, there is no ability to run extra flights. Nor do airlines have the slack in their fleet usage to substitute larger aircraft. And the typical load factors out of Heathrow at other times are difficult to squeeze upwards much. So is the extra load actually a myth ?

2. BAA state their new target security times and then say they will not be achievable at "peak times", which on closer reading appears to embrace the whole of the summer. Now I don't know about Ferrovial's managenment style, but if I presented my boss with a proposed target and then in the same breath said I was not going to achieve it at key times I would not be about for long.

3. Once again we are told that there is going to be "investment in new screening stations". How many times do we have to say this, the problem is the EXISTING stations, already bought and paid for, are left standing idle. If they were used many of the problems would be overcome. I am convinced it is because the manufacturers and suppliers of the screening equipment, whose price has been increasing by upwards of 25% per annum in recent years, have got their hooks into airport security managers (which in the BAA management pecking order must come at the bottom of the pile as you can't have revenue bonuses associated with the job) and are just saying "Hey, here's another £40 million sloshing about, that's going to be mine".

4. If the money spent on the imbecile and useless pre-screening staff were to be spent instead on proper security staff manning the stations that are standing idle, again much of the problem would be overcome. Why can nobody at BAA see this ?

[eidah]

In STN it is extreemly bad between 5-8am the main reason is due to low fares airlines based there. They are expanding security there but will this help as it seems it isnt the problem of the number of points its just the huge wave off passengers. If you have a flight say 9am you will have no problems but 6pm on a Friday you may miss your flight.

BAA seem to employ lots of part time staff and dont take many people on full time contracts. Surely if they employed full time staff they wouldnt need as many staff.

[PAXboy]

The timescale they have been given is very dissapointing. They say it will take time to hire the staff - Yes, we have been telling them that for ages. :hmm:

I am at T3 next week and the deparerture is 20:25 which puts us slap into peak time. When I did T3 in January for an 18:00 departure it was 40 mins in the queue.

[PAXboy]

This thread is running in PAX & SLF

[srs what?]

1. Why the huge extra problems over Easter ? We all know that Heathrow operates each day of the year with 100% usage of runway slots and that, contrary to what gets written in the press, there is no ability to run extra flights. Nor do airlines have the slack in their fleet usage to substitute larger aircraft. And the typical load factors out of Heathrow at other times are difficult to squeeze upwards much. So is the extra load actually a myth ?

Load factors on average will be somewhere in the region of 60-70% (ish, I am talking average) over the Easter they will be 100%. No extra flights just simply full.

One thing they need to drastically improve is the crew channels. CP3 at Queens Building at LHR simply can't cope. One channel soon grinds to a halt with one 747 crew going through it.

[powerless]

Another reason for the extra delays at holiday times is that some people don't read the notices and only start emptying coins, removing shoes etc. when they reach the end of the queue and are told to do so by staff and that adds to the delays. Seems to happen in both the US and Europe from my experience as SLF.

[UniFoxOs]

As a slight aside, but on the same subject, last time I came into BHX, about 3/4 weeks ago, I noticed one of the immigration lanes had some sort of retinal scan unit installed. It was not operational so we had to queue to be checked by a real person - not too bad on this occasion, maybe 15 mins.

Anybody know what this retinal scan gismo is? Would it reduce immigration times? Does it work?

UFO

[WHBM]

Another reason for the extra delays at holiday times is that some people don't read the notices and only start emptying coins, removing shoes etc. when they reach the end of the queue and are told to do so by staff and that adds to the delays.
Given that the current requirement is for 50% of pax to remove their shoes, and 50% not, as determined and advised to them by the security staff according to some formula, perhaps you could explain by what aspect of clairvoyance pax might be expected to know whether they should remove their shoes or not before they are told to by staff - invariably not until they actually reach the screening point.

[ShamRoc]

It is possible to register for the retinal scan at LHR T1, just past security in International Departures, and use it coming back into UK in lieu of queuing for passport. It think it is for UK (EU?) passport holders only so if yoou need to pass immigration it may not be for you.. Yes it does work but with only one channel that is not always serviceable the benefits can be minimal. The channel is to the right at the endo of the "Immigration" desks and it is not until you go there you are aware of whether or not it is working. By that time you may have to return to the "normal" queue which may have (inevitably) grown in your absence!

[A757]

I think it will be better to stay away from yankees advantures in Iraq and Afghanistan and live in peace with all countries. It will take much less of people's money and nerves.:cool:

[ShamRoc]

From WHBM "Once again we are told that there is going to be "investment in new screening stations".

My current and recent experience is at LHR T1 International. My question would be, "why not use ALL of those currently available?" In my view 2 airside security points are overmanned, the one opposite Gate 14 (very under utilised) and the one guarding the entrance to the Gate 25 plus area. In addition, there always seem to be plenty of security staff wandering around staring into space!

[manx crab]

I wonder if these additional staff are in addition to the extra staff they are supposed to be already be recruiting.

When I complained about the pathetic service at LGW North they said that they had been recruiting over 200 extra staff since November. Part of the reply is below.

"The issue of security resourcing at Gatwick is a complex one. Unlike
other airports, Gatwick has huge seasonal variances in demand. It also
has infrastructure constraints which make it difficult to reconfigure
the security screening area at short notice. Following the
announcement of the new regulations in November we commenced a recruitment
programme for 200+ new security staff at Gatwick. We have had more than 1,000
applications for the security officer positions, but we need hundreds
more. For every 20 applicants only one officer is offered a job. It
takes approximately 14 weeks from submitting an application to completing
training and criminal record checks and starting work. This is
clearly an area in which no compromise is acceptable to ourselves and the
Department for Transport."

So far my experience has been that the problem is worst at airports run by BAA.
What they should do is give everyone a £20 voucher to spend if you have to wait more than
10 Minutes to pass through security, that would maybe give them an incentive to improve matters.

[howflytrg]

As a slight aside, but on the same subject, last time I came into BHX, about 3/4 weeks ago, I noticed one of the immigration lanes had some sort of retinal scan unit installed. It was not operational so we had to queue to be checked by a real person - not too bad on this occasion, maybe 15 mins.

Anybody know what this retinal scan gismo is? Would it reduce immigration times? Does it work?



Yes it does, very useful at LGW!! I always have a smile on my face when i cut out the 30 min queus there, much to the angry snarls from some other pax :E

BAA should have a look at T4 MAD to redesign the whole screening areas. Not once have i queued more than 10 mins during peak pax flows! A great credit to AENA's management. Time to think outside the box BAA!

[Grasscarp]

BAA must be losing out with people taking so long to get through security that there is no time to spend in the airside shops.

[Gulfstreamaviator]

excellent idea, with the block on use in any ON airport store......but how to manage the system.

[PAXboy]

howflytrg Time to think outside the box BAA!Actually - it is too late for that!! Since T5 is already nearly complete and they are showing it off to the press, any 'thinking' that they did would have had to be done about four years ago. I dare say that they researched it very widely around the globe but what there thinking was ... we shall soon find out. BUT it is too late now!

[GalleyWench]

The retinal scan program several posters have queried is known as IRIS. You may register for it regardless of passport- if non EU passport holder you must have passport stamps proving you have entered the UK several times in the past 2 years . There are IRIS offices in all LHR and LGW terminals airside (past security)- the registration takes about 5 minutes and you may use it within 3-4 days. No need to fill out landing cards or any other documentation. It is worth its weight in gold.

[san diego]

LGW North Terminal on Saturday 31st march was a nightmare. The queue for security wound around the check in desks and out of the doors! Rumours suggested the wait would be over an hour, and my flight left in 40 minutes! Quodos therefore to the queue scanners who pulled people out and directed us to a special lane where security was completed in about 10 minutes. BAA appeared to have every X ray machine operating but it was still unable to cope. Ironically as you get into the departure lounge, hostesses, presumably employed by BAA themselves and with sashes pronouncing 'Enjoy your time at Gatwick', seemed completely oblviious to the chaos only a few feet away from them

[skydriller]

Ironically as you get into the departure lounge, hostesses, presumably employed by BAA themselves and with sashes pronouncing 'Enjoy your time at Gatwick', seemed completely oblviious to the chaos only a few feet away from them

Did you inform them of the chaos and direct them to their management?:E

[ShamRoc]

BAA queues to continue - but its being resolved NO IT IS NOT!

Was at LHR T1 yesterday and noticed that there are now 2 scanners guarding the entry to the Gate 25+ area! However, the queues for the supposedly "random check" were as long as usual. Indeed, a very harresed BMI ground staff person came to the area calling forward passengers for a flight about to depart!
At the main security area only 2 gates were in operation with the queue stretching back to the entrance, although in fairness as the staf'f/priority area was not always being used passengers were called forward in small batches to this area.
Mind you part of the delay can be attributed to SLF not being prepared, in spite of notices, and waiting until the last moment to empty pockets of change, being asked to take off jackets etc.

[PAXboy]

ShamRoc BAA queues to continue - but its being resolved NO IT IS NOT!BAA did not say that they would fix it by now. From the BBC report quoted at the top of this thread:

BAA wants to cut queue waiting to five minutes, 95% of the time.
But it said that the target could not be guaranteed by Easter or summer and did not rule out using marquees for waiting passengers outside terminals.

[ShamRoc]

Anybody caught up in the security queues at LHR T1 lat Thursday (5 April)?

I have never before seen such a long queue at the second security point guarding Gates 25+ at T1 International. Announcements were being made that "The Captain has agreed to delay the flight until all passengers have passed through security (or words to that effect)". I think it was a BA flight. I thought this was a "random security screening" point. The installation of a second scanner does seem to have done little to ease the congestion.

I understand the reason behind this security checkpoint is that up to then inbound and outbound passengers can "mingle and meet" and the check is that no forbidden goods are exchanged. Surely the inbound SLF have already been security checked from their departure airport? Does this make the passing of dangerous objects possible/probable?

[radeng]

If BAA were serious, having admitted that the 'service' provided has been unacceptable, they'd fire the senior management responsible 'pour encourager les autres'. After all, they have had the capability of fixing things for months - they just don't want to pay what it takes to get the job done efficiently.
Preferably then shoot them, too.
Nice airport seem to keep opening gates until they have no more to open. Arlanda the same. My last two trips through Phoenix have been so fast that you couldn't put your bag down to get your passport and boarding card out before you were moving again.

[PAXboy]

Going through LHR T3 on Wednesday 4th, I allowed the maximum amount of time and ... sailed through. The fast through time I can recall.

We go to the upper level around 16:30 and were though to shops in 10 mins flat, so something had obviously gone terribly wrong!

That is the problem - pot luck. You never know if it is going to be good or bad and it might be good, simply because you arrive at a natural low spot and if you arrived ten mins later it would be tea breaks and five coach loads at once.

[Married a Canadian]

A lot of the blame can also be put on the new security regulations that have been introduced over the last couple of years.

Given all the stuff we are not allowed to bring on to a plane now....and given that a lot of us forget and it ends up being confiscated....all this adds up in time as the security officer has to stop and search us...then add a couple of extra minutes as we argue with them.

Unless they get rid of the stupid baggage item shutdown...it dosen't matter how many stations or fancy new bits of equipment or staff they bring in. The queues will remain.

[PAXboy]

I thought that you would be interested to read this report from a man who is a deeply experienced and practical electronics engineer. I have met him and followed his writing for many years. Peter Cochrane really does know what he is talking about. He is a frequent traveller of high magnitude.

In this item he reports on why he has not joined the Iris Scanning option at some UK airports. Naturally, I am only pasting a small part of the item from Silicon.com
http://comment.silicon.com/petercochrane/

The traveller going through the iris scan enters the booth with full confidence. Then the 'dance of the immature technology' begins. Move closer, move to the left, stand further back, look up, look down and so on. The traveller is then asked to leave the booth, re-enter and start again. This dance is repeated until an attendant arrives to reboot the technology. By this time I'm at the front of the long line and on my way home.


Just what is going on here? More than 10 years ago I had this technology in my lab and it performed faultlessly. Integrated mechatronics would automatically scan your face, locate your eye, focus and take a picture. The electronic analysis was more or less instantaneous. So why all the fuss at Heathrow?


There is more before and after this extract and I think he is probably correct.