Tail dragging then aeros

[gyrfalcon]

I currently do not have any taildragging experience and would ultimately like to buy shares in a pitts with competing in mind therefore I am looking for a school or individual who can teach tail dragging in a cub or similar and then conversion to a pitts and then aeros in a pitts. I live in the Oxford area but am willing to travel.

I am currently thinking of going to florida to do the training unless I can find an organisation that can do both in the UK.

Any suggestions

Thanks

[n5296s]

I can't help with the UK I'm afraid but if you're looking for this kind of training in the US then you could do a lot worse than Attitude Aviation in Livermore, CA (near San Francisco). As long as you do it between May and September you can be sure of good flying conditions. And you can always do what I did, and reward yourself for getting checked out on the Pitts by taking the L-39 for an outing. Beware though that getting to the point of landing the Pitts safely takes a LOT of practice - not something you can do in a weekend or even imo in a week. (No doubt this will attract lots of people saying, "Pah, call yourself a pilot, I got checked out in the Pitts in 3 flights", but that isn't most people's experience).

(I have no business connection with Attitude, although I am a satisfied customer, with 75+ hours on their S2C).

n5296s

[J.A.F.O.]

Northampton School of Flying at Sibson do tailwheel conversions on a Super Cub:

Cub Thread (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=262931)

and have a Pitts that they instruct on too.

Which all sounds ideal for your needs, and they're very good.

[eharding]

I can only comment from my own experience, but if a Pitts is your goal, then don't bother with the Cub - just crack on and get some instruction in a Pitts S2. I did my tailwheel conversion with Alan Cassidy at White Waltham in the Pitts S2, and highly recommend the experience.

For the first couple of hours, you will wonder what the hell you've done, and feel completely out of your depth. Actually, this sensation goes on, intermittently, for hundreds of hours, I understand, long after you've been signed off to fly your own Pitts. But then, that's why you fly a Pitts....pure, unadulterated joy most of the time, and a few seconds of the exact opposite on occasions when you land it. But if you have the opportunity, do it....

[kevmusic]

Apologies for the thread drift here, but eharding, is that your real age? There are some really old current pilots.........

[eharding]

Oh...busted. :E

[TheGorrilla]

Hmmm... Very good. But not as good as a Cub and Crumble!! :}

[Them thar hills]

What's wrong with crinklies anyway ? :)
Once a bush flying service operator was asked what he looked for in his pilot employees.
"Grey hair" was the reply.
So that's alright.

[Lister Noble]

Many years ago we used to have farm crop spraying done by a Pawnee and I asked the pilot about dangers etc.
He said
"The pilots are either young or old,the one's in between are dead!"
Lister

[slim_slag]

....I am looking for a school or individual who can teach tail dragging in a cub or similar and then conversion to a pitts and then aeros in a pitts ...I am currently thinking of going to florida to do the training ... Any suggestionsGo to Arizona, and soon before it gets too hot. www.aerobatics.com (http://www.aerobatics.com) for the supercub. www.airbum.com (http://www.airbum.com) for the pitts. One 25 miles apart and I challenge anybody to beat that combination. There is no point paying for your tailwheel endorsement in a pitts unless you have far too much money.

[eharding]

Well, I make the distance between Oxford and Arizona to be about 5000 miles - and if you *really* want to get checked out on a Cub before the Pitts, then the Supercub and the S2 at Waltham are hangared about 50 feet apart. However, as I said, if you want to fly a Pitts, then just go for it.

[slim_slag]

KSDL-KCHD 25 miles

http://tinyurl.com/2jjnkl

He said he was planning to go to the States anyway.

[eharding]

"I am currently thinking of going to florida to do the training unless I can find an organisation that can do both in the UK."

As, I said, WLAC can do both; it's also one of the best places in the country to hang around if you want to get into competition aeros, the food is fantastic, and it's less than an hour's drive from Oxford. The only down side is that between us, The Gorilla and I may have eaten all the food before you get there :ok:

[slim_slag]

Sounds like a great place to do some training. Glad to see he is being given options.

[Sleeve Wing]

"Apologies for the thread drift here, but eharding, is that your real age? There are some really old current pilots........."

"The only down side is that between us, The Gorilla and I may have eaten all the food before you get there "

Kevmusic.
As you can now see, he's really MUCH older than that !!! This comp. aeros thing is just an act. He actually just wears a very posh slim-line flying suit. ............and devours WLAC breakfasts like there's no tomorrow !!!

Luv, Sleeve.

[slim_slag]

Well, no chance of seeing posh flying suits at the places I mentioned. Shorts and T-shirts standard attire but you need shoes that will not slip off rudder pedals so no birks :).

Once properly checked out in the supercub they will let you take it up over the grand canyon and plenty of other great places to fly too.

[eharding]

It's not posh - generally covered in oil & fried food...and it certainly isn't slim!

[Zulu Alpha]

I think 89 yrs old is a typo. It should of course be 8-9 years old!!!
:) :) :) :)
I do agree with his comments about White Waltham, although the US is also good and I can recomend www.sunriseaviation.com who have a clipped wing cub, Citabrias as $150/hr, Pitts at $330/hr and an Extra300 at $340/hr
Aerobatic instruction is $50/hr
ZA

[slim_slag]

I'd recommend calling Sunrise first and see what their policy is for charging for time, as John Wayne can be busy and you might often have to wait with the engine running on the ground. These busy airports with jets are fine the first few times but they quickly become a bit tedious.

[Zulu Alpha]

Last time I flew there we got held up by a jet or two but Sunrise credited me with the time wasted so I didn't pay while the Hobbs was running on the ground.
Maybe you do need to ask though. I suggested shutting down while we wait to taxi back and the instructor said he would only charge for the reading on the Hobbs up to that point.
Worth checking though whether WW charge for brakes off to on, Tach time or Hobbs as this can make quite a difference.

ZA

[18greens]

You could also try Fly2help at Kemble.

www.fly2help.org

They specialise in tailwheel, aeros and advanced flying. They also have a lovely Decathlon and a Chipmunk for the training.

[n5296s]

Citabrias as $150/hr, Pitts at $330/hr

Wow! Attitude charges about $90 for a Citabria, $220 for the Pitts. Instruction varies with the instructor, $60-75. And they're in the same hangar. With what you save on learning to fly the Pitts, you can pay for an hour in the L-39 (~$2200 depending on the fuel price on the day).

As for doing a tailwheel conversion in the Pitts... I guess anything is possible, like learning to drive in a vintage Ferrari. The first 50 or so landings in the Pitts are terrifying even when you're comfortable with tailwheel landings. Unless you're really a natural genius then I'd be sure it'll be both quicker and cheaper to do the conversion in something that flies more like an aeroplane and less like a brick.

n5296s

[stiknruda]

Cassidy at WW
Ambrose at Popham
Castle at Full Sutton
Frank at NSOF (Sibson)

If you are in Fl, then I highly recommend Keoki at www.ameliaislandaerobatics.com

Budd at airbum.com in Scottsdale is very good too - a unique aviation experience!

Not so sure that I agree with our resident corpulent 8-9 year old: learn to fly a benign (benign is not an instruction Ed, you struggle to make eight most days!) taildragger prior to committing aviation in the Pitts.

I've flown half a dozen S1's, 8 S2A's, 4 B's and a couple of C's and the one thing that they all have in common is that they all fly differently!! Differences between the marques is understandable but they are different between aircraft of the same model.

As a wise man (and I think it was my chum, Budd D) once said, " The Pitts will spoil other aircraft for you.

Flew mine for 12 mins last week, first aeros this year and I still am wiping the smile of my face, 4 days later!!

Go do it and let us know how you get on.

Stik

[eharding]

Stik,

You'll be pleased to hear I missed my usual WW slap-up lunch today - was having trouble fitting into the EAC overalls...
The decision to do the tail-wheel conversion in the S2 was on the advice of Uncle - I was all all fired up to do some time in the Cub beforehand, but he was of the opinion it wouldn't help that much. For the record, we did 6.4 hours dual before he let me loose in the S1 - and as you've noticed, I have two left feet and hand-eye co-ordination on a par with David Blunkett, and hence as far from being a natural as it's possible to get.

As you say, every Pitts is different, and we're lucky that MAXG doesn't have the rather more lively ground handling of some other S1s (famous last words though - given that LG reshaped the lower-left aileron at Elvington, SH did the lower right as you remember at Conington, doubtless it will be muggins who manages to scrape one of the upper ones down the runway at some stage :sad: ).

However, right at the start I was lucky in that Alan, Tim J and the rest of the crew were very emphatic that I put aside all of the horror stories and bar-room (and internet forum) mystique around the Pitts and just crack on with it. If the purpose of the exercise, as defined in the original post, is not simply to undertake a tailwheel conversion but specifically to compete in a Pitts, then all I can say is that skipping the Cub time worked for me....so far. :ok:

Cheers,

Ed

[stiknruda]

I believe that the above myth was perpetuated by several names well known to you, Ed! (Williams/Cassidy/Perrin)

The reason being that it introduced a bit of "gamesmanship" and therefore implied that the driver was above average calibre.

It really is just another aeroplane - but it will do exactly what your hands/feet tell it and it will do it very, very quickly!!:p :p :p

Stik - I spent yesterday washing and polishing mine!!

[pod]

Have a look at fly2help.org They have a Chipmunk and Super Decathlon. Their instructors are hugely qualified (2 of them also fly Spitifres!) and many of them have displayed high performance aerobatic aircraft before. Two of them even own Pitts's......... They operate out of Kemble [not too far from you] and the other plus point is that all their profits go to charity (helping young kids experience flying and funding aviation scholorships)

cheers

Phill

[OpenCirrus619]

The Tiger Club (http://www.tigerclub.co.uk) can do both. Tailwheel in a Cub, aeros in a CAP 10.

OC619

[gyrfalcon]

Thanks for all of the feedback - very much appreciated:ok: , looks like I will be going with NSOF at Sibson or with Cassidy at WW. Or I may even go to the states with Keoki or Budd - from no choice to too many choices!!

Any other advice would be most welcome
Thanks Again

[ACL]

You don't have to go far from Oxford for taildragger and aeros training. Enstone Flying Club are operating a Chipmunk with ex-RAF instructor for exactly your needs. I'm coming up to my first anniversary of Chipmunk flying - about 30 hours in it and enjoyed every moment. Give Enstone a call on 01608 678204.

ACL

[greeners]

"Have a look at fly2help.org They have a Chipmunk and Super Decathlon. Their instructors are hugely qualified (2 of them also fly Spitifres!) and many of them have displayed high performance aerobatic aircraft before. Two of them even own Pitts's......... They operate out of Kemble [not too far from you] and the other plus point is that all their profits go to charity (helping young kids experience flying and funding aviation scholorships)"

Understand that they do great spin training too ;)