First user fees, now speed bumps...

[Ian Corrigible]

...they really do have it in for us GA types, don't they ?! :E

Pensioner pilot mistook road for runway: report
AFP 2/7

A 68-year-old Briton landed his light aircraft on a road after mistaking it for a runway - and only realized his error when he hit a speed bump, an air accident investigation report said Thursday.


I/C

[DaveO'Leary]

Don't think it fair to take the pi** of this pilot. Things happen.

O'leary

[RudeNot2]

At least he landed safely... Hope the plane was not damaged going over the speed bump!!

[Dak Mechanic]

Hmm, not exactly:

http://www.aaib.gov.uk/publications/bulletins/february_2007/morane_saulnier_rallye_235e__g_melv.cfm

The speed bump didn't do any damage....
The small tree and the lampost were not so forgiving. Glad the driver was ok though.

JC

[tmmorris]

What the h@ll did he land on?

Look at http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=52.233&lon=-2.733&z=14&src=msa and see if you can see anything remotely resembling a runway of any sort, on any alignment, 1/2 mile south of the town centre...!

Tim

[tacpot]

The AAIB report said it was a newly built peice of road, so it probably wouldn't appear on any publically available satellite imagary.

[Bravo73]

Don't think it fair to take the pi** of this pilot. Things happen.


Things do indeed happen.

But wasn't the lack of any hangars, parked aircraft or any aerial activity of any description a bit of a giveaway that he wasn't about to land at an airfield??? :confused:

[Jgossett]

"But wasn't the lack of any hangars, parked aircraft or any aerial activity of any description a bit of a giveaway that he wasn't about to land at an airfield???"

I was wondering the same thing. No hangers, no planes, lamp post, and trees that should have been dang good indicators for me that that wasn't a runway at an airfield. :}

[matelot]

And 4 miles away from the field... :}

[scooter boy]

Bet he wasn't using GPS!

(I hope it wasn't my dad! :} )

SB

[Whirlybird]

I can just about envisage a scenario where this might happen....

You're a fairly low hours pilot, and you've never been to Shobdon before. The visibility isn't all that wonderful, which means that east of Shobdon there aren't an awful lot of abvious landmarks. (In non-perfect vis there aren't; I learned to fly helicopters there; I know the area well). You know it's a small airfield, with one shortish east-west runway. You have no idea what it's got in the way of hangars and other aircraft. And you're a little bit stressed because this is all somewhat new to you, or for some other reason, so you aren't thinking 100% clearly. But you're talking to Shobdon, and suddenly, close to where it ought to be, a runway shows up!!! What else could it be but Shobdon? It's got obstacles at either end, and no cars on it, so it can't be a road. And it's in the right direction. And there are no other airfields around here. So you land....

Let's face it, pilots have made sillier mistakes. I knew someone who landed at Llanbedr, thinking it was Caernarfon. I once nearly landed at that gliding site to the north of Kemble, realised my mistake on downwind, and when I told Kemble, they knew exactly where I was, as it had happened so often before. This sort of mistake isn't that hard to make...and it's easy to be wise after the event.

It IS funny! But seriously, it could happen very easily.

[tangovictor]

i agree, there but for the grace of god

[Bravo73]

Whirly,

It obviously can be very easy to land at the wrong AIRPORT (Abingdon is often confused with Oxford, for example) but have a quick look at the details of this particular case.

Low time? Nope, the gent had 1,207hrs TT. However, I imagine that the '4 hours in the last 90 days' might have had more of a bearing on the incident.

Setting sun in the eyes when landing on rwy 27? Not at 1130hrs in late August! Viz was 9999 and the base at 3000ft. Hardly marginal conditions.

Not knowing Shobdon and it's lay-out? All of the pilots guides contain a plan of the airfield so that you can familiarise yourself with the lay-out before you arrive. The '5 Ps' and all that, eh? ;)


I'd agree that it's easily enough to land at the wrong airport/airfield. But to land in a field and to mistake it for an airfield??? :hmm:

[Dave Gittins]

I think it is reatively easy to forgive an error of this sort (something similar once happened to me at Cambridge where I was searching all over the place for a guy who claimed he was on finals and when I couldn't spot him made me do a go-around for safety and who subsequently called to say he was taxying past Concorde and where would Cambridge like him to park) compared to the sort of thing that appears to happen to Ryan Air on approach to Knock or Cork.
DGG

[Whirlybird]

Bravo73,

OK, not low time, but as you say, 4 hours in the last 90 days, so possibly somewhat out of practice. Was that 1200+ hours over 5 years, 15 years, 50 years? Could make a difference. Now, I have my Pooleys open at the Shobdon page.... Hmmm...I can see an east-est runway, and a couple of grass strips for gliders and microlights. There's one or two square black and red things that might be buildings, or might not. Am I supposed to know what they are? Probably, but I don't suppose I'd think of that before leaving for Shobdon, and possibly neither did this chap. After all, there's not too much that looks like an airfield, is there? No...except for a newly built bit of road, with an east-west orientation. As for the lamp post and tree, he hit those after he veered off the road.

Obviously not a sensible thing to do. But quite understandable, I still think. Possibly more understandable than landing at the wrong airfield, when the numbers on the runway are clearly wrong. And far more understandable, to my way of thinking, than landing at Llanbedr instead of Caernarfon - miles and miles away, different shaped bit of coastline, and different runway configuration.

[speke2me]

What the h@ll did he land on?
Look at http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=52.23...3&z=14&src=msa and see if you can see anything remotely resembling a runway of any sort, on any alignment, 1/2 mile south of the town centre...!
This is the Google Earth of Manchester City Stadium, now Man City football ground:

http://www.flashearth.com/?lat=53.483184&lon=-2.200348&z=17.6&r=0&src=msa

Considering it's first event was as the athletics stadium for the 2002 Manchester Commonwealth Games, I don't think Google imagery is all that current. Google Earth clearly shows it in the early stages of construction, c2001? So 6 years old just for that one for starters....

M

[EastMids]

OK, not low time, but as you say, 4 hours in the last 90 days, so possibly somewhat out of practice. Was that 1200+ hours over 5 years, 15 years, 50 years? Could make a difference. Now, I have my Pooleys open at the Shobdon page.... Hmmm...I can see an east-est runway, and a couple of grass strips for gliders and microlights. There's one or two square black and red things that might be buildings, or might not. Am I supposed to know what they are? Probably, but I don't suppose I'd think of that before leaving for Shobdon, and possibly neither did this chap. After all, there's not too much that looks like an airfield, is there? No...except for a newly built bit of road, with an east-west orientation. As for the lamp post and tree, he hit those after he veered off the road.
Pilot had 1207 hours in 27 years - 44 a year, which is probably similar to many PPLs. Had been to Shobdon three times before. Quote from AAIB "When close to touchdown the pilot noticed that the airfield was different to what he remembered"... And not wanting to inflame another debate again, but joined downwind rather than overhead, had been advised four other a/c approaching (which he presumably didn't see landing on a road four miles away)... And hasn't Shobdon got an NDB???
Not wanting to be over-critical (there but by the grace... one day, maybe!), but one can easily see with hindsight the trail of minor issues that eventually build into a big one.
Andy

[Airbus38]

We are all very wise after the event, and so I say from the outset that I have every sympathy with the pilot involved. It is unfortunate to say that this incident will remain one of the pilot's most prevalent memories of 1,200 hours of (we assume) happy flying.

I would like to relate to you an experience I had last year whils making a trip to Shobdon. This event is not serious in any way, is totally unremarkable and is the sort of thing experienced every day by GA pilots, but sticks in my head reading this thread. Whilst phoning for PPR i was told that 27 was in use and that, if I wished, I could make a straight-in approach from overhead Leominster. I took off with a westerly wind, similar conditions to those in the incident - 10k+, clear skies, smooth conditions. I had never visited the airfield before, but I positively identified it and commenced my approach from over Leominster. As I got closer, I was bemused. Before me I saw what looked like 2 parallel runways, both in the right direction. There were hangars, other a/c parked and I was happy in my location. But which runway should I go for - Right or Left? The flight guide only showed one runway.

It was only when I was very close on approach that I realised that what I had seen before me were the two wide paved areas either side of the runway, and that the correct one was the darker patch straight up the middle, and so I continued. I landed, and promptly shot to the far end of the runway, and it was only when I taxied back that I realised there was a stonking tailwind, which would explain why it felt like I was travelling a good deal more quickly and was struggling to stop when landing.

Anyway, none of this was apparent to anybody but me - as I say, it was unremarkable, no wild manoeuvres near the ground, no crashing, to all observers it would seem fairly routine. I had a brew, and then flew back.

It's only really after the even that I could think clearly about what I could learn from this -

1) I continued approach without positively identifying the runway. It could have been a totally different airfield. Were it not for aircraft parked it could well have been a road.
2) In my efforts to identify the landing area I had not taken account of the prevailing wind, resulting in a potentially hazardous downwind landing on an adequate, but not massively long runway.

Lessons learned from this - if possible, in all conditions, suss out the lay of the land first. I really should have made an overhead join. This would have allowed me to identify other traffic, identify the runway, assess the condition of the airfield, and indeed have a look at the windsock in advance. The taxi back is far too late. I am grateful that it turned out as well as it did, but in future I will endeavour to join overhead, as taught to me from the very beginning, and really reduce those margins for error. I only feel sorry for the gent involved in the report that his day didn't turn out as well as mine, and also hope that it will cause others to just take a step back as soon as things don't add up.

As they say, learn from your mistakes; better still, learn from the mistakes of others!
A38

[Dave Gittins]

There but for the grace of god ......

Out of interest ... and not intended as criticism because you have already identified and owned up to all the mistakes and it would appear learned all the lessons ... how come you didn't make radio contact and get the wind and runway / circuit direction ???

[Airbus38]

Good question, didn't mention that...

The A/G was not manned on arrival, I spoke to one of two a/c who were flying circuits at the time who informed me that 27 was in use with LH circuits. I didn't press them for a surface wind, in hindsight maybe I could have done, but I think I was of the attitude 'well, if they're flying circuits it must be the best runway.'

From the cafe I watched a/c after a/c land on the downwind runway, and I think they seemed a little put out when I requested 09 before departure. They didn't want to formally change the runways, but said I'd be OK if I kept a good lookout before taxying on to the active. I wasn't very happy with any of this, but it was a little bit catch 22 - T/O in the wrong direction, whichever way you look at it.
A38

[Dave Gittins]

I find that really quite amazing that folk carry on landing downwind ... because nobody has the b@lls to say - I am not doing this ... we all need to change to 09.

How did the windsock look from the cafe ??

This is some of what CRM is about .. just in this case across more than one cockpit.

Good on you for taking the reciprocal departure away from the sheep.

DGG

[Airbus38]

As I recall the windsock was not visible from the cafe itself - however it was so apparent to me as I walked back to the aircraft that I returned inside to discuss it with the chap behind the desk.

I made some very clear radio calls before departure, emphasising my chosen runway. I only got one response, from an aircraft who did not give his callsign, who simply said - "Oh. Changing the runways now, are we?" I felt as though I was an unwelcome outsider, and that their attitude was more that they had started on 27, so that's where they were staying. And the climbout 'up the approach' felt very uneasy.

Like I say, you live + you learn.