Rollason Condor Stall

[Choxolate]

I've recently bought into a Rollason Condor group (yesterday) I would appreciate any views on the stall characterisitics, clean, full flap etc. Something I didn't try on the test flight.

[Stampe]

Very straightforward honest stall classic british trainer,should stall at about 42kts clean,38 knots flapped.Common to get a wing drop and expect it it on flapped stalls.If prompt standard recovery action is not taken the aircraft will depart into a spin.The spin is pretty standard but quite nose low and rotation increases rapidly hence the three turn limitation.If you don,t get the stick far enough forward during the recovery action spin may restart in the opposite direction,also any entry other than power off/ailerons neutral may result in a relatively flat spin.The stall characteristics are one reason it is best not to drag the aeroplane in power on short field landings as some jodellers do.If your only trained to the modern syllabus on current type training aircraft best get some dual from an instructor or PFA coach who is famliar with that generation of aircraft (many aren,t but won,t admit it).Congratulations on buying an aircraft with delightful handling qualities and which is both economical and fun to fly.I,ve be been flying the breed for 34 years non stop and cannot speak to highly of them.No owners club but we all congregate on the forum on www.rollason-condor.co.uk hope to see you there.

[Choxolate]

STAMPE

Many thanks for your input - very useful. I'll do as you say - we have an instructor who will be ideal for this type of training, i'll get some time booked with him - already arranged for some tail-dragger conversion so I'll extend this to include stall and spin recovery.

I must admit the handling was excellent on the trial flight - after flying "spam cans" the responsiveness was outstanding.

[Snakecharmer]

Great little aeroplane.. haven't flown one for 20 years but remember having a lot of fun!

[bingoboy]

Hi Stampe, I would join in on the condor site but my application has been pending for a while now. Is the site still active ? I learnt on Condors at Doncaster and feel one day the world will turn full circle and I'll return to them.

[Them thar hills]

What a pity there aren't clubs who still use Condors for training, as in the 60's and 70's. A classic British trainer (but designed by a Frenchman )
I did all my PPL on Condors. When I was shown my first spin, it was entered a bit quickly, whereupon the long-suffering Condor did a half-flick to inverted and then spun with determination.. Hardly the aircraft's fault though ! We were reminded that all aircraft have sharp teeth and if you failed to heed this, don't be surprised.
Or as it said on the panel, "All aircraft bite fools"
:)

[Meldrew]

I also did my PPL on a condor in 1971. With no previous flying experience or much knowledge of general aviation at the time, my impressions were that it looked like an aeroplane should look compared to Cherokees and Cessna etc.
i.e. low straight wings, conventional tail etc. (Yes so do Cherokees, but you know what I mean!) I felt that it was the best aeroplane to learn on for an ab initio. I later went on to fly many hours on Jodels and standard spam cans. I always felt that the Condor taught me things that would have been less obvious on many other types. I am also one of those people that believes in learning at the outset on a tail dragger! As others have said, a great shame that there are not more flying schools still teaching the basics on Condors.:ok:

[Miserlou]

I had also heard the horror stories of the Condor spin but found it to be fairly staright forward. It simply rolls into it and is stable by the first turn; no big deal.
Recovers quickly and easily, too, and if the wing drops at the stall, that too is easily caught.

Great little aeroplane. Pity you don't see more of them.

[OldManRiver]

When I was instructing on gliders (a long time ago!) we felt it was all too easy for pupils to become complacent about spinning, because of the forgiving nature of most training gliders at that time. So we'd routinely put them in the RH seat of a Condor and demonstrate a full three-turn spin and recovery. This was usually enough to create pop-eyed astonishment and a vastly increased awareness! As I recall, the Condor was also excellent for this purpose as it required very positive control inputs to effect the recovery, unlike the aforementioned glider trainers that merely required a bit of foot-shuffling and relaxation of back pressure.

[Oldbiggincfi]

Much more interesting with a stopped prop !
Had a flat battery so required a swing start.
Spinning exercise with the club owners son.
Standard spin entry and then the prop stopped followed by a very flat spin. Only synchronised pilot rocking gave any stick control back. Relief when the prop started to turn from a sporting dive.
Great training A/C from the 70's.
Only crititism - they was painted yellow by order of Norman Jones who leased them to Clubs and the throttle became lubricated with petrol !
Saw GN lined up behind me at Shennington a couple of years ago.

[FlyingOfficerKite]

Yes, happy memories of flying the Condor.

I went solo in one, but completed my PPL on the C150/152.

Also had an identical experience to Them Thar Hills when carrying out my first spin - wonder if it was the same aircraft, instructor and airfield?!

KR

FOK :)

[Oldbiggincfi]

FlyingOfficerKite

It could have been !
If you had to complete your PPL following club closure following a bailiff's visit !
Certainly I was about at that time.

Bring back the Condor with a more fuel efficient engine and there will be great training A/C again.

[Echo Romeo]

I was looking at buying one a few years ago, now a friend of mine has, so I'm hoping I'll get a flight or two. But his has no flaps, were these an addition to later Condors ?

[500 above]

The flaps didn't make much of a difference to be honest. The flap less birds with elliptical wing tips looked even nicer anyways. What a great little aircraft. Condor moment!

[blind pew]

Instructed on them at blackbushe in the 70s -wonderful aircraft but make sure that you have full rudder...one joker adjusted the differential brake which restricted rudder movement...1/2 turn spin stayed in for around 5 turns and it took two right feet to stop the spin...recovered just above the tops of stratus.
One of my few near death experiences...
Sadly student died many years later in a Christian eagle that inadvertently spun and didn't come out (whatever the report said).
Entry needs to be at the stall as if too fast it does a neat half flick roll which stops inverted ....
Nicest light aircraft I flew.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I've got one, she is my pride and joy and of all the aircraft I've flown she is my favourite.

Neil Williams refused to put the Condor in his log book because he hated it, mine is the perfect antidote to flying when I have to rather than when I want to. I've flown a few different Condors and all spin very slightly differently, I've always put that down to no two could be identical due to the hand built processes and the fact that as they are wood they change slightly due to humidity and temperature.

Beware that there are a lot of metal parts passing through wood, a recover can bring on a nightmare re-build. and the undercarriage can bottom out in a hard landing giving some unseen problems. (my bank balance took a long time to get over finding that out!)

She is an honest, lively and delightful aircraft.

[Echo Romeo]

Can any one give me an idea of take off performance of the Condor. I don't have any performance figures to hand.

It's possible I may get to fly one this weekend and I note the air temp is likely to be in the mid 20's, with little or no wind, the aircraft I suspect will be close to max weight and the grass strip is level with a TODA of approx 550mt.

[pulse1]

You should be OK but it does depend on what prop and the length of the grass. At close to MAUW I would normally expect to "leap" off the ground near to 400 metres. Not the most sparking performer on take off but makes up for it in most other ways.

[Echo Romeo]

pluse1, thanks.

[Echo Romeo]

Got to fly the Condor yesterday, flew it by myself due to the heat, lack of wind, and weight 2 up. She lifted off, I guess at about 350mt, soon accelerated to 70kts and we were away.

I took to it like a duck to water, what a great little aeroplane to fly. I can only hope I'll have more opportunities, though next time if there is one I'll chose a cooler day it was akin to being in a greenhouse in full sun. This one has a small vent either side that I found completely ineffective, after 10 mins I was sweating buckets, It was worth it though :)

[Tony Mabelis]

Myself and Maurice Cronin were the first people to fly a Condor outside mainland UK, back in the mid 1960's, when we took the prototype aircraft..............painted Blue, on a touring holiday of souther Ireland.
Tony