What does ATC do that irks you?

[ConwayB]

Hello everyone,

I posted a new thread on the ATC forum asking air traffic controllers to list the things that pilots do that makes their blood boil.

The reason is that I am a CRM facilitator and was wanting to gather information to pass onto fellow aviators to aid in understanding our relative roles.

There was some great stuff there - check out the thread on the ATC forum called "What do pilots do that irk you".

Then one of them suggested that they could learn from pilots as well and invited me to start a thread... so here it is and it is repeated on the D and G Reporting Points forum.

So feel free to write your gripes here... and hopefully we can all learn, adjust the way we do things... and make all our lives easier and flying more efficient.

I'll get the ball rolling...

The scene is Townsville airport. I am captain of a Chinook helicopter and we taxi out to taxiway bravo where we are abeam the threshold of the main runway and with a clear view of the approaches to it and the second runway. There is no visible traffic and no radio traffic either. The airspace is quiet. We are keen to depart for we have to make a specific timing. It's a local flight to within 10 miles of the CTR, so coordination with Approach should not be necessary.

Us: "Townsville Tower, Chinook One Zero Four, Ready, Taxiway Bravo, departure to the east."

Response: "Chinook One Zero Four, Hold."

No reason why... which is OK... It's their perogative... but we have a time-on-target and every second is precious so we get a little frustrated. The delay goes on...

Us: "Townsville tower, can you give us the expected delay?"

Response: "Chinook One Zero Four, Stand by. Will call you when you are cleared for departure."

Now we're frustrated... and pissed off!

Whilst an explanation is not necessary, it certainly is a nice to have.

Anyway, that's my two cents worth... but I've learnt to breathe deeply and go to my happy place.

[RWJackOfAllTrades]

I have only ever been irked by the occasional (hmmm..excuse me for saying this Conway sinc your a military bloke yourself...no disrespect at all)...military controller who holds you up for no reason at all or they withhold a clearance 20 odd nm of Williamtown cause their is a Hornet on a 3 nm final for the runway...come on guys. A few military controllers have been too rigid and a little too serious in the whole 'military thing' from time to time.

Darwin seems to have a lot of trainees there who stuff you about, though that said I found the guys and girls down Nowra way to be nothing but consummate professionals and ever so willing to help...they even delayed a Seahawk once so I could land before bad weather hammered me and my light helicopter working on a fire once...I may have even been the guy that delayed you in Townsville that time...tongue in cheek. Whoops!!!

Aside from those minor annoyances, I just hate the odd sarcastic remark from controllers who jump on a mistake. Talking on a radio is but one of our duties as a pilots and some do it better and worse then others. At the end of the day, ATC guys talk on a radio as their bread and butter so they should be close to perfect at what they do...and most are. Overall, I give a big thumbs up to these guys...they do a great job under trying circumstances.

Never really had any problems elsewhere when I have flown overseas, though the ones I have had are more related drunken bar incidents...not really CRM stuff.

[TwinHueyMan]

In similar likings to RW Jack -- I've had some interesting experiences with military controllers. US-Based mil towers tend to use Civillian Contractors almost exclusively, and I rarely ran into beef with them... competent and professional. On the flip side, when you go to a not-so-stateside place of work, the military puts their controllers back in the saddle with almost zero experience from their stateside time. Maybe its not that way in the entire Military, but for the Army, it seems to be the case.

While deployed, we basically reasoned that there were two types of controllers... the ones who couldn't talk very well but tended to get things right (eventually), and the ones that talked like a pro but tended to screw things up. One "dark and stormy" night on a flight to a neighboring airfield, the controller very cooly granted us permission to back taxi up the runway from the hospital pad to the gas station... we thought we had heard inbound traffic announce themselves earlier but figured they were elsewhere and we trusted the controller. 3/4 the way back up the runway we saw landing lights come on about 1/2km out and dead in front of us... a very quick sidestep to the center sod and we all got our hands ready to wave at the 2 blackhawks that went roaring down the approach end. The controller apparently knew we were back taxiing, and knew they were on short final, but didn't realize we would eventually end up converging? A quick "sorry bout that" and he was back on to his normal high speed professional sounding banter. Guess he just had a brain fart.

-Mike

[MightyGem]

What does ATC do that irks you?

Speaks. :E

[helicopter-redeye]

Clearing a single pilot aircraft to air taxi.

THEN giving you the transponder code while you are in the air taxi...


(THEN getting annoyed the next time you ask for it on the ground to avoid the same problem)

h-r:suspect:

[ShyTorque]

Giving a clearance and in the same transmission asking a question. Shouldn't happen but it does.

The workload in a helicopter can be just as frenetic as in a fixed wing - so I wish they wouldn't talk to us as we are lifting or in the initial climb. Having flown both FW and rotary, it doesn't seem to happen to FW pilots.

[Spunk]

@ Helicopter Redeye
That's my favourite as well. Air taxiing in a strong tailwind I was asked to switch off the transponder. My reply:"Will switch it off when reaching apron" (50 m to go). Approx. 3 sec. later "Can't you switch it off now, you are only air taxiing". :ugh:

[Lightning_Boy]

GORDY is gonna love this thread!!!!!!!!!! :}

How much bandwidth does PPRuNe have available :confused:

[ConwayB]

Thanks guys,

keep 'em coming.

The point about having to change transponder to STBY whilst air taxiing in a single-pilot helicopter (I do powerline patrols in an MD500 too) is a good one and I hope any ATC personnel who may be reading this thread will understand how difficult it is to keep both hands and feet on the controls and reach down and change a frequency, rotate a knob, etc.

By the same token, however, one of the things I do is when on final approach to the runway/'H' and the aircraft is still stable with forward airspeed, I take a second to switch my transponder to standby before I start my hover and have to concentrate on air taxiing, watching for other traffic, being wary of my downwash whilst manouevering, etc. Unfortunately, that doesn't help when a frequency change is required after arrival and whilst air taxiing. That IS a handful.

We can all learn from each other... so please let 'em rip. This is great stuff!

[Ascend Charlie]

As a frequent user of Sydney KSA, I have found that there are 2 types of controllers - those who understand helicopters, and the rest. Sort of like the A Team and the B Team.

The As are terrific, issuing clearances that expedite things along, and take advantage of the flexibility of the choppers. The Bs will hold me outside the zone, and although such a hold might comply with the strictest of applications of the rules, it is not necessary, and is frustrating to say the least.

I have spoken to some of these fellas on the phone, and even they admit that there are As and Bs. I once chipped a B after landing, asking why a particular hold and approach to a different landing site was specified. I got my reply on departure, when he said "Because I can" and ever since then, whenever that controller has been on duty, I have been held outside the zone. Because he can, and just to prove to me that he is the boss.:*

Other than this controller, I usually have no problems with ATC. Most are happy to see a helo that can get out of the way faster than the others.

[Oxeagle]

A certain radio operator (nicknamed 'the fat controller'!) at a nearby small airfield with an air-to-ground station who seems to believe that he can exercise the privilidges of a fully-qualified ATCO. Said operator also seems to feel the need to jam up the already busy frequency with irrelevant nonsense, making it extremely difficult for any aircraft to get a transmission in sideways :=

[MD900 Explorer]

What is annoying is when you come to an airport where the traffic is hardly busy, but the ATC ssems to think it is London Heathrow sometimes.

Example; I air taxied in on TWR Freq, did the turnaround.Had to shut down and restart after 30 mins, No one around, tumbleweeds blowing accross the field.

Me: Tower Hi again, Helicopter LN-OPE, request engine and rotor start"

Twr: Contact Ground please.

Me: Gnd, Engine and rotor start please

Gnd: (same Guy := ) Ok start approved, contact tower now........

Just to be completely anal. The whole transaction should take less than 30 secs and now i have to change frequencies, tart around with the start up and increase my workload, because the ATC person has a weed up their arse about procedures at that specific airport...:=

Not that it is a problem multi tasking, but wouldn't it be great if we all got along? Another one that makes me boil is the necessity to hold when a 737 is on 8 mile final and that it takes 5 mins to land, when i can see the place i want to land is about 800 ft away and would take less than a minute to get to. Then having waited in the hold for 5 minutes, having to wait another 3 for wake turbulence to settle (That bit i do understand and respect).

Like Ascend Charlie said, there are helicopter friendly controllers and non-helicopter friendly controllers, i guess you have a 50-50 chance of getting an A controller on that particular day.

MD :(

[Martin1234]

Me: Tower Hi again, Helicopter LN-OPE, request engine and rotor start"

Twr: Contact Ground please.

Me: Gnd, Engine and rotor start please

Gnd: (same Guy ) Ok start approved, contact tower now........


Norway I presume? :}

[MD900 Explorer]

Martin1234

Afirm

MD :{

[mikelimapapa]

The only time I can remember being really frustrated with a controller was when I was on with Daytona App and the guy was having a private conversation with another pilot.(Apparently they trained at the same flight school.)

and I quote....."is that old chevy still sitting in the back of the hanger" :ugh: :ugh: :ugh:

[TIMTS]

Have had many examples, but here's two.
1.
Sitting on the ramp, next to the active runway. Boeing 747 taxiies down the runway past me, backtracking for take off. I ask for takeoff behind the 747 after he has passed me and is well clear. I have to cross the active on the take off. I get told to hold because of aircraft on the runway. So I wait for 7-10 minutes while the 747 taxiies down, turns around...does some checks and then takes off. As the airplane roars past me on the runway, mainwheels just lifting off tower clears me to take off behind, cross the active and expedite!!!
When I told him no, I will wait until the vortices settle down he asked me to give him a call on the land line. Cue long talk about how we helicopter pilots hold up traffic and cause confusion.
2.
Different place.
sitting in a grassy area off the main apron that we use as long term parking, ask tower for repositioning to the apron....all of about 35ft...to go to the pax loading area.
"You are cleared to lift, take off direct, maintain VFR, winds are 330 less than 5, QNH 1013, report airborne"
So I pick it up in a hover and report airborne, and he comes back with my take off time as 22min past the hour.
I set it down when I reach the apron and he goes "Landing time..uh..22..have a nice day."
a bit overkill???

[Shawn Coyle]

Let me ask - what sort of training about helicopters do ATC people get? I'll bet there is little to none in most countries.
Has anyone ever thought to get some helicopter specific training included? Sort of things to be covered would include - single pilot workload when hovering, capabilities with respect to wind, etc. I'm sure there are a lot of things to add to the list.
How about articles in ATC specific magazines? Can anyone point to articles written by helicopter pilots for those magazines?

As for controllers who get ideas beyond their station - aren't there ways to report that? In the UK, I know there used to be a magazine that had all sorts of neat anonymous reports related to flying. Is it still around, and does anyone ever think of writing up a controller who is not only causing undue delays to your flight, and making you burn more fuel (think green!) and also pushing up your blood pressure (which is definitely not good for flight safety).

[SASless]

The tower at my home base was a "training" Tower for our region. Every new batch of fledgling controllers were provided a helicopter flight in, over, around, and below the airfield. The young pretty female controllers got multiple rides if wanted. Ah, I digress. As a result our controllers quickly learned about helicopters and when they got checked to go on their own or moved to other airfields....the call sign of the aircraft alone was enough to get the kind of clearances we dream about.

Usually Takeoff clearances went like this...07C...cleared to depart report clear of the zone. Landing clearances went like this....07C cleared to land, call when down.

The best one ever was when I found myself popping out of the fog,mist, and murk at an airfield in the Seattle area which had lots of brand new shiny Boeing jets set on the ramp. Like in the middle of the airfield almost to the taxi-way between the highway and the runway close I mean all the while thinking I was past the airfield and was safe to head down the hill looking for visibility.

Hurriedly, I tuned up the Tower Freq....to hear those lovely words...."07C is cleared out of the xxxxx control zone Special VFR, maintain VMC and report VFR or leaving the control zone.....how you been Sasless?"

ATC folks can be human too!

[verticalhold]

UK mil controllers who make us do everything on QFE when the rest of the world is on QNH.

Major airports who insist on us taxying in a line of 747s to use 10,000 of concrete we don't need.

Once sat on the jumpseat of a 747 at LHR watching a 355 at the HAP. the 355 suddenly dipped a couple of feet in the hover, "why do they always do that?" asked the driver, "ah, He's just changed from ground to tower" Was my response.

God bless LHR. Appallingly busy and always manage to get us in and out in rapid time.

[helimutt]

How about when a GA field asks you to join standard overhead, even though your at 500' agl inbound to them and have told them that. Always seems sensible to me to have to climb overhead then descend again when helicopters are quite capable of joining low level.:hmm:

MD900, quote "Not that it is a problem multi tasking, but wouldn't it be great if we all got along? Another one that makes me boil is the necessity to hold when a 737 is on 8 mile final and that it takes 5 mins to land, when i can see the place i want to land is about 800 ft away and would take less than a minute to get to. Then having waited in the hold for 5 minutes, having to wait another 3 for wake turbulence to settle (That bit i do understand and respect)." unqoute
I just have to ask, you really been put in a hold for 5 minutes in a helicopter? Bet there's not many on here done that!! :E :E

[MD900 Explorer]

Helimutt

I think it was nearer 4.5...but i digress :E Holding is Holding. 25 mins or 5 mins. Since we are much more fexible than our FW brethren, seems silly to just keep us hanging around when we can be expedited and voila, one less thing for the ATC to think about. :cool:

My post earlier must have rattled a few chains, coz i got an email from a controller inviting me to a tower near my location. Geez, was it something i said :D

[helimutt]

You entered the hold in a helicopter? I'm also assuming you don't have an IR and it may have been during training for said IR? I reckon that's one of the only times you will sit in a hold in a heli. I'd love to know which airfield and what type you were flying.

[Pandalet]

This isn't an irk, I'm just not sure what the correct procedure is; as far as I'm concerned, having to deal with me while I'm distracted by making lots of fast-moving bits of metal stay up, yet still giving me the info I want, even when I've forgotten to ask for it, probably qualifies you for some sort of medal!

When switching to a (radar) frequency, and having listened for a few moments to make sure I'm not stepping on someone else, I go "XXX radar, helicopter G-ABCD", and ATC comes back with "G-ABCD, standby". How long should I wait before assuming that I've been forgotten, and repeating my initial call? Obviously, if I'm inbound, and need clearances, this becomes a bit more critical, but if I'm just flapping around outside the boundary and would like a FIS, I could conceivably wait for some time (although obviously, I'd like the FIS as soon as possible).

[breakscrew]

I'm with Pandalet; my biggest issue is when I call about 10 miles out for an inbound clearance and after only passing my call sign being told 'standby', and then left for 10 minutes with very little other traffic on the radio until I call again, and a very annoyed controller tells me to 'standby, I'll get back to you'. In this instance another 10 minutes passed before he did respond to me. Lots of fuel burned unnecessarily as I stooged around outside the zone. At least he could have offerred reason for the delay or let me know how long he would be. Of course, this inordinate wait was a one off, but being told to 'standby' for several inbound track miles is a pretty regular occurrance nevertheless.

[MightyGem]

having to wait another 3 for wake turbulence to settle
Never seen that as a problem. The turbulance that is, not the wait. I'm not following the aircraft in front so I've always called "ready now" and they let me go.

[rotor67]

I started flying out of Van Nuys, CA #1 busiest GA in the states Frequently, I would fly an approach to the taxi way, and have a fixed wing off my right for the runway, no big deal, maintain visual, easy peasy! NOW, I'm flying out of Torrance, CA(Robinson factory is located there), and I'm now cleared to land behind fixed wings, for the numbers, WHY?? I'm following a Citbria, that is may doing 50 KTS, and then ATC wants me to shoot my approach, and terminate, at the numbers? AGAIN...WHY? I as so used to Van Nuys, and now this C$AP! So I'm burning .1 to .2 extra, because I'm having to follow a fixed wing on final! HEY, I rent, so every point counts, especially in the pockets! The other day, I was asked to shoot my approach to the active, which I did(ATC did not acknowledge my base to final call either). Then ATC instructed me to air taxi down the runway, to parking, no big deal. As I'm coming off the active to the grass, he tells me to hold for the Citation taxing south. The Citation is about 300 feet away, and I asked for an expedite to the pad, in front of the Citation, which ATC said HOLD. Now, which is less dangerous, me having to wait for his jet blast to settle, or a little downwash(R-22) from me? I think that some ATC know about helicopter ops, and some just do not! BUT, the other day, I asked about a TFR for the Rosebowl to a neighboring airport. I was transitioning through, and asked about the TFR. I rarely make any conversation with ATC, always, straight and to the point, and keep it brief. This guy was so hopeful, and quite pleasing to talk too, infact, he chewed out a fixed wing, for interrupting us! So, I really think it's the individual ATC'er. I just wish they were more consistent, and not constanly changing there minds!

My .2 cents!

[Phil77]

Two stories:

Bad:
One of my students on his first solo x-country could'nt touch down at a class D airport (they also like "play" big aiport over there) because they were painting the runway centerline on ONE of two runways and reached the intersection - surely nobody figured that that is a helicopter and could have touched down roundabout 5000 ft away from the workers! (student was to afraid to insist and did'nt land)
:yuk: :=

good
Philly International, pick up a photographer. Tower asked me for my intentions and told me to keep my squawk... took a little longer than I thought, so I figured that I should call clearance first - bad weather somewhere, everybody got full clearances and after 2 min not even keying the mike I decided to give it a shot on the tower freq..

Of course the guy has changed and I told the new guy that his collegue told me to keep my squawk:

Tower: "That was'nt me, standby!"

Me: (:( awaiting the "contact clearance") Roger

Tower: (worked five airliners and then) "Helicopter on the GA ramp, are u N-12ABC?"

Me: "Affirmative"

Tower: "Ok, I found a note here, you can proceed as requested!"

Me: "Roger Helicopter N-12ABC" :confused:

Tower: (cleared six or seven airliners) "Helicopter N-12ABC I'm not picking u up - you didn't take off yet?"

Me: "negative sir, I am waiting for takeoff clearance"

Tower: "I gave it to you already - proceed as requested!"

:D :D :D

[Droopystop]

Pet hate from my R22 days:

Long complicated clearances that have to be memorised.

Remedy:

Take them flying and show them that unlike our FW cousins, R22 pilots cannot write and hover. Clearances became much simpler thereafter.

[spekesoftly]

Lots of good stuff here. May I suggest that to avoid the 'writing/clearance/hovering' issue, you request your outbound clearance before asking ATC for start/taxi.

[qwagga1]

Well must admit, also had a couple of delays due to FW traffic etc. Must admit I found most ATC accomadating in my area of operation and even down right friendly.

The one thing I do really hate to hear is a clearance with the the following words attached to it: "Expedite" Imagine the pressure being put on a youngster trying to do everything safetly and as quick as possible. Helicopters in general is twice as quick when it comes to being ready and getting out of ATC's way after lift-off.

[Johe02]

Nice idea.. It will be interesting to see your collated results.

I had a skim through the thread on the ATC forum and noticed most of the 'irks' relate to fixed wing pilots. Except;

The 1500' heli pilot who likes to take his time on the R/T, telling me where he is, where he's going to (and sometimes why), what he's doing then, and then, before heading back to there.. all these little bits of info broken up with "ummm"s and "ehh"s.


What about a 'What irks you about heli pilots' thread for us?

[verticalhold]

Helimutt;

Had a couple of holds over the years on the North Sea. Nearly died of shock in the early hours of one morning when diverting to Luton (now vip charter not NS) in grot weather when I got an approach time of 05:35z. Time then was 04:40. My boss in the a/c ahead got an EAT of 05:25.

A long and boring hold session at BNN followed. When intercepting the localiser the ATCO said "How fast can you fly this approach? because we're going out b***dy quick." As I shut down on the Signature ramp the boss walked up to the aircraft and pointed to the tower. The bottom 50' was all that was visible:\

I hadn't flown 6 holds on the trot since the days of f:mad: ing up in the simulator when the trainers let me get on with it because the paper trace was so pretty.

[Heli-Ice]

The A & B team.
We had this problem here in Iceland but now most if not all the controllers know how flexible helicopters are. Now a days we almost always get the clearances we ask for. :ok:

Bad:

What I really hate the most is the grumpy controller! The one that shouts at the first solo students and gives you hard time "just because he can"!
Also the controller having you hold in the hover for minutes just to wait for some 3 or 4 small airplanes on the other side of the airport taking off and landing!

I think it is a good idea to write an article about this and how much workload is on helicopter pilots hovering around the aerodrome, limiting their ability to adapt to changing frequencies and turning equipment off.

Good:

The female controllers who have that lovely voice.

[verticalhold]

Heli-Ice;

Agree with your B. There is a lady at a major airport north of London who has an impossibly sexy, but smiley voice. I know she actually works in the Drayton pit. Every time I hear her it makes my day, and my knees weak.

Maybe AlanM could provide more details. Still got to take him flying so maybe bribery on that occasion will help:E

[topendtorque]

I couldn’t say enough good things about most of the troops on the other end of the radio, especially back in the old FSU days. One only had to cough and they were onto you. Some like ‘Malfunction’ out of Kununurra were phenominal and usually could be heard way past other stations.

This happened to a mate of mine. He then worked for a smallish company in North Qld. One day one of the troops pulls the pin so bossman asks mate to fetch the A/C (a 269) back to base. It was parked beside his at Cairns, a controlled A/P and right beside the TWR. Mate also happened to volunteer a lift to a femme fatale for convenience. Well so he said anyrate.
Twr staff watches, with some interest.
Like most, they had the binos trained downwards. Finally mate is ready, fires up and asks for a clearance.

Back came the answer short and to the point, “No.”

‘Why not’

“Not until you tell what is going on, that is not your usual machine and it definitely is not your girfriend.”

[MD900 Explorer]

helimutt / Mighty Gem,

"This paragraph has been edited as per Helimutt's assumption"

Needless to say, i have rarely experienced holding in the UK, except in a training modus, and the UK controllers i have experienced seem Heli friendly and have had no real gripes there. I guess when you are used to dealing with more traffic you become proficient and can expidite things quickly. I have great admiration for the boys and gals down at EGKA who seem to be able to do their jobs well under even of the busiest times :D

But my initial comment was a gripe at the Norwegian Controllers. Saying that, always had good control from ENBR, ENZV & ENGM. Its just places like ENTO, ENRY, ENSN that need to wind their necks in abit. :=
MD :eek:

[semirigid rotor]

I know this is an extension to the taxying / clearances issue, but this has happened to me several times.

SPIFR, fly the approach to DH and just at 250' I get taxy instructions :ugh:
That's when I standby!

Never heard it done to a fixed wing though :rolleyes:

[Brilliant Stuff]

Cheer up on the frequency.

On my flight recently I had first a controller who was under training which I could tell by the voice which is fine and I try not to make his life difficult but then I changed frequency and was greeted by Mr clip and grumpy where you get the feeling you personally are to blame his life has gone to pot.So I was glad to change frequency again to be greeted by a chap who made me immediately feel that was in safe hands and he would fulfill every wish I might have.

I don't expect you all being so sweet, I don't really know what is troubling you at the time when I am passing, but how about cheering up a tad.

I am myself am guilty of getting ecited on the radio every now and then therefore I am trying to reduce those instances.

[helimutt]

MD900, so let me just get this straight. You fly a single, not IFR certificated machine, and do holds as a matter of course, VFR, whenever ATC require it, no matter what the wx may be? Good luck to you man.

[kasif]

If have a nice one from Kabul, Afghanistan.
We (2 CH 53) flew back to Kabul Intl. from a training mission. Our position was a few miles north of the field. After our initial contact we listened to a conversation between the Air Force Controller and a Boeing 727 from Ariana Afghan Airlines.

TWR: Ariana XXX what is your position? We have 2 helicopters north of the field.

Ariana XXX(in broken English): Position is good to land.

A few minutes later the B 727 landed on the runway without clearance!:D

With all the good or bad experiences we had, we have to keep one thing in mind (my opinion).The controllers are there to serve us (the pilots) and not vice versa. (Especially when we have to pay for for their service)

[Heli-Ice]

Helimutt

Which one are you, Mr. Clip or Mr. Grumpy?

I believe that MD has the same understanding as I do of the word "hold" and that it is when you are asked to hold your position or wait for instructions.

I guess you are in the UK and there a "Hold" is commonly used when talking about IFR holding procedures.

My guess is that we are talking about the same thing but using different words. Remember a lift or a chopper are not the same things on both sides of the pond. ;)

[helimutt]

Heli-Ice. Maybe i'm not sure of what or who Mr C and Mr G are but I know MD900 knows the UK quite well, but I suppose you are right that perhaps I am the one confusing holding and taking up the hold, etc.

Maybe he just meant that he had to hold before being cleared for departure or to land. Oh well.:oh:
I get the sneaking suspicion that now that MD900 knows a number of people know who he is for real, that he may just edit his last post. I'll wait and see how long it takes.

[Heli-Ice]

Helimutt

Mr. C and Mr. G are to me the grumpy controllers and I was just poking you a little.

This just shows that when people who do not have English as their first language they can really get confused and cause a confusion. Many accidents have resulted from misunderstandings between air controllers and pilots.

Maybe this misinterpretation of wordings cause our beloved controllers to snap back at us when we, in our good belief, fly the blue heavens.

[Flingingwings]

The honesty and integrity (not to mention motive) of some of the postings on this site staggers me at times. :eek:
Guess you can only help people so many times :ugh:
In an industry where reputation is almost everything there are definately times when some posts should never be written - let alone eventually edited (be they inaccurate, less than truthful or just plain rude/abrupt)

[Xavier Dosh]

Flingingwings, if I have misunderstood your post – I do apologise.

The honesty and integrity (not to mention motive) of some of YOUR historic postings on a particular thread in the past, staggered several people.

I am sorry if I have misread your post. However, the above comments, compared to those that you made prior to Christmas seem contradictory and in an industry where reputation is almost everything there are definitely times when some posts should never be written.

Your rude/abrupt comments last year weren’t helpful.

XD

[helimutt]

Xavier, I was under the impression that everything Flingingwings has previously posted has been truthful and at least helpful to others on this forum. Especially considering his past. ;)
I know what he is talking about in the post above but don't wish to expand.

[Xavier Dosh]

Thanks Helimutt,

I don’t wish to offend anybody.

My previous post was a knee jerk response to Flingingwings comments.

No harm intended

XD

[MD900 Explorer]

Helimutt

Edited post as instructed. OK, you busted me, but you didnt have to tell every one i was working towards my NPPL/A. I love all that microsoft stuff, helps me pad out my logbook. :=

You have my admiration Sherlock.

MD :E

[crispy69]

Generally I think the controllers do a great job

The most irking situation I have had was going into a airport with two freq's, one for control zone traffic and one for circuit traffic. The airport has 4 runway's 2 sets of 2 which intersect each other.
I was on a flight in with a ppl student (which normally stresses at this airport anyway) and the first controller cleared us in to join final's to one of the runways then told us to switch to other freq. Once changing the new controller then told us to join base to the other runway at this stage we where pretty much on short finals, My student just looked at me sideways and had no idea what to do. At this point I took over on the radio and asked if they were aware were on short finals (with no traffic near us), the grumpy reply was yes they were aware and to change to base on the other runway.
Apon landing I spoke to a fixed wing guy that had just landed and he had been given the reverse of us, he was on finals to the other runway and had to maouver to join downwind for our runway.
I suspect when handing over inside the tower they might have got us confused and mixed us up.
What ever happened it was not a good first control zone experence for my student.