AO(Australian Airlines) wet lease to QF- future?

[goldcoast fa]

Next week the GGM is coming to CNS for an employee forum. Lots of rumours abound at the moment at our future and where we stand after half of our flying goes to JQ int later on in the year- Nagoya and Osaka.

Anyone have any suggestions on what may happen and if they think any big announcements may be made at this forum?

[AOskippy]

The current company climate makes us all very nervous, at least for myself. Nothing we can do but wait, I reckon there won't be an announcement at this forum yet, as there are issues with pilots that to be sorted out first, then they can tell us where we will be heading to. Heard JB is coming to CNS to talk to pilots, but it was just a rumour. Personally, as much as I love our bunch of people, I would love to be back to SYD, be it L/H or S/H, I don't care. Even if it has to be JQI, I guess I'll have to give it a go. I've done my time in CNS, time to go home.

[left-right-out]

The talk is that the flying will remain as is after July(NRT) however AO will only need a reduced number of crew to run this operation.
To compenste for this positions at JQ Int. CNS base will be offered as will Casual C Contract positions with MAM to fly shorthaul out of the 4 bases here in OZ.
If these options are not taken then the only option left will be to take VR or be made CR.
AO crew and now the second highest wage earners amongst the QF FA's. This means that management will not offer permanent jobs that have a higher rate of pay or earning capacity.
If QF management suspect a big fight I think that they will see it as an easier option to just cut AO loose and shuffle the flying around within its own businesses. Such a shame when so many made the sacrifice to relocate to Cairns and re-establish themselves and their families, buying houses and property, becoming part of the commmunity etc.

[AOskippy]

Um, LRO, that's the first time I heard that version of AO's future, quite a sad one really, just a goss I hope. I've always heard that after AUG/SEP, we'll be flying to a new destination and a port that we are familiar with, as they were words from our management, hope it's true. Remain positive, remain positive!!!

[QF skywalker]

2 options for further flying - Jakarta ( CGK ) or HKG.

Let's hope it's HKG !

I am hoping for the base to remain as is. I don't wish to leave Cairns yet.

[crewbus]

Hello

I hope that everyone gets a permanent job at least. It doesnt seem right that the company can 'give' your employment to MAM? Surely there is a legal obligation somwhere!!! And hopefully it is just a rumour! :)

Goodluck, I hope the outcome is positive for all of you.

[mid assist]

I think all AO crew need to chill. There is so many possibilities. Remember AO no longer exists. It's an employment company. It will remain an employment company for the time being. The big changes wont come yet. They will come once the new owners take charge. In the mean time, stay positive.

[left-right-out]

"It doesnt seem right that the company can 'give' your employment to MAM? "

They cant!
However, I think MAM will be offered as an option for those who wish to leave the base, but continue to fly! It would probably be a single interview as a formality! Similar situation to those who were on the hold list with AO last year.
AO has no transfer rights into QF and as far as I know, from what I have read of your EBA, the "Transmission of Business" clause only provides a permanent positon in similar role IF there is one available. If QF did offer transfers it would only be a limited no. of permanent positions, but they would have to satisfy their own obligations to career progression from Jetstar and the regionals, who do have transfer rights!
Basically your EBA leaves you with your hands tied and QF in a position where they have no obligation to any on the crew!
As I said before, it is such a shame, because the people I have met from AO are all very professional and committed to the company. I wish you all the best of luck and hope that it is a positive outcome for each and every one of you!

[wa.man]

I have been on a wait-list for a Qf F/A position for nearly two years... I recieved an e-mail from QF about three weeks ago asking if I would like my application transfered to M.A.M as ther was no chance of permanent positions becoming available.
I hope all works out for AO crew but cant imagine QF will offer full time positions to them if they dont have too... They are not know for their great Employee relations... Good Luck Guys!!!

[flitegirl]

don't be so sure WA MAN. What they have told you is regarding external applications. AO crew are already permanent employees of the Qantas group and are operating Qantas flights, and working under a more efficient and cheaper EBA than LH. Someone said the other day that AO crew are the "jewell in the crown" of the Qantas group.

[cartexchange]

and I suppose you believe them flitegirl?
:rolleyes:

[flitegirl]

That's beside the point, I'm just repeating what was said.

[Sonique]

Nice to see you back biting when needed cartexchange !! Where have you been old girl ? Thought you finally took that long awaited VR !

And Yes love, J.Borgetti has been saying nice things about us. Apparently customer satisfaction on AO operated QF flights are very high ( as was the case also when we were AO )

I really hope something good arises out of our loss of KIX and NGO flying.

AO is such a great bunch of people and I think QF know that.

[Sonique]

We were also told that customers have noticed that on AO operated QF flights -:

* Crew actually do 20 min refreshment runs
* Crew wear jackets for boarding...and even button them up !
* Crew wear nametags !!
* Crew groom themselves to a very high standard, and wear clean, polished, correct uniform footwear
* Crew clean toilets
* Crew Smile
* J class service is operated correctly ( no shortcuts )
* Crew are approachable and helpful before and after flight. I.E - terminal
* Callbells always answered in a timely fashion

Just passing on what was heard, hopefully this gives QF a few good reasons to give us some more flying, rather than send us all to spottheaussieSTAR.

[airbus_galley_girl]

Australian Airlines Crew can only operate services for Qantas on the 767.
Suggestions from when JQ take your KIX and NGO?????
CNS-CTS(seasonal)
CNS-HKG
CNS-ICN
CNS-SIN or CNS-DRW-SIN
CNS-NRT-PER-NRT-CNS
CNS-BNE-AKL
CNS-BNE-BKK
CNS-BNE-HNL
CNS-BNE-HKG
CNS-BNE-SIN
CNS-SYD-HNL
CNS-SYD-ICN
CNS-SYD-JKT
CNS-MEL-NRT
:rolleyes: :eek: :eek:

[seatedandsecured]

Sonique................ we all know as cabin crew it all depends on the crew on any particular day as how well th crew operate..........all divisions have great crew members who do their job really well and the pax love them..............we all have slack crew and great crew just admit it and really pax wouldnt know which or what crew was crewing what flight

[cartexchange]

Sonique
Surely an old bird like you knows when they have been b()llsh!tted to!
They say that stuff to everyone.
Your experience will tell you that the line spin is "you're great and wonderful" and then whammo they stab you with something.
Anyway I can assure you that QF really do not care about customer satisfaction but only the bottom dollar.
Honey do you really think that our customers care or even know if you have your badge on or wearing your jacket! Honey! reality grip here, most of our pax can even decide what to eat or drink......

tell your collegues not to be so gullible and get street smart its the only way to survive in this den of thieves

[goldcoast fa]

Thanks Sonique for the comment that JB is getting reports back about our customer service. It is nice to know that it doesn't go unnoticed.

Also to add to your list of service differences from us you forgot to mention the " relax and unwind" service( the hot chocolate/chamomile tea sevice after lunch). When we first started doing this service our icans( trip reports) kept reflecting that we kept running out of hot chocolate. QF Products services in Sydney couldnt figure it out as it didnt happen in LH. When we would ask our LH colleagues about how they did this service the standard reply was - "Oh nobody does that service....We just tip that in the bin! "

Seated and Secured- you are right... slack crew are in all airlines and we have a few here but because we are a small group and know each other well most will lift their game to not be noticed. Also despite the uncertainties at the moment our morale( or engagement) is fairly good and we all know how infectious good and bad morale is on a crew. Most pax dont know the differences between who/what port division is crewing a flight but our wet lease arrangement with QF dictates that the boarding passes have printed on them " operated by Australian Airlines". I am also fairly sure it is referred to in their on line booking, as it is when you book on the staff travel website. Observant pax do notice this and many will ask us inflight what it means and comment on how much they have enjoyed the flight.

[cartexchange]

a very sad post goldcoast......very sad indeed....

I have never ever seen hot choc being thrown in the bin and I have never seen people not do it and I fly LH so I should know.

How sad that you listen to some idle gossip and decide to that its fact.

when I was reading your post the thought that came into my head was" this person is really deluded"

Do you honestly think that JB gives a toss about customer satisfaction in any division, its all about which division are will give him the biggest bonus.

However you can continue to live in your little fairy land where you honestly think that it will make a difference that "JB knows about the CNS whatever sector you operated on!

How sad indeed!

[lowerlobe]

Sonique....Do you girls ever understand what guys like JB do.

If they thought that AO were so good why did they shelve you guys?

J* does not get good feedback so if you guys were the jewel in the crown why would they close you guys down..wake up and smell the artificial flowers that QF uses.

These guys will say and do anything to get a bonus

[QF skywalker]

yes yes yes lowerlobe, we are all ex flyers and have been around long enough to know what comes out of the mouth of QF management.

However, we don't have much else to go by as we are told nothing in our base until it happens. Hearing this type of feedback keeps us positive about our flying future...and it's true.

With all due respect, the closure of AO was due to a number of reasons, the main being SARS from which AO never recovered. Flying to asian destinations does that to an airline with 5 767's.

There is a forum being held today in CNS, so they better tell us something. As once again the uncertainty is not appreciated.

Stay tuned ..

[cartexchange]

Hello Sky walker.

Well you have been around long enough to see through the cr@p.

Its a shame that QF management are playing these games again.
attend the meeting and listen, but don't fall into their propaganda.

Stick up for yourselves! so what is customer satisfaction is high!
Does that guarantee your job ?
Does that guarantee your future?
Does that guarantee your income?

They are cruel and dangling the carrot!

[goldcoast fa]

Sorry cartexchange. Not delusional. Have been around long enough, through two airline closures, to know that the bottom dollar does count for a lot when ones future is at stake.

Never meant to imply so simplistically that I thought our future was guaranteed because of customer satisfaction. Like Skywalker its nice to get good feedback and its great to work in an environment where everyone loves going to work and we have fun.

Anyway here is hoping that something either positive or negative or at the least the truth of our future gets discussed today

[YONLY]

I thought this forum was about the future of AO. Not fighting each other about the crap you've been going on with.

I work for AO and we constantly hear how better we are than mainline. I am not saying that we are any worse but how often do our crew fly on LH services. Not often enought to gague first hand just how good or bad they are. And I can tell you a lot of short cuts are taken at AO also! Continuous refreshment every 20 minutes in Y class... Dream on! I don't know the last time it was done every 40 minutes let alone 20. Wake up you fools! And there are far more professional J class operators than anyone we have. I have come across people at mainline who have been able to memorise every pax name on the upper deck! They have been doing it far longer than us and are very good at their job. So before you believe all this crap that is fed to us as our ship is sinking wake up!

Oh, and one nasty flight attendant does not reflect on the whole company either!

Let's get back on track and stop slinging each other. I look forward to what comes out of this forum today....

[cartexchange]

good and balanced post YONLY

Cheers
CARTEX:ok:

[speedbirdhouse]

I agree......

Nice to see that you don't have a chip on your shoulder YONLY.

[midsection]

To all AO Crew. Hope everything works out for you all.
Great airline and a number made the big move to CNS. Lets hope you get to stay and give that great service you are knowen for.:D:D:D

[Kangacrew]

Thanks Mate!!!:O

Yeh i attended the forum & was a waste of time. Nothing announced!!
As for Jet*Int doing Osaka & Nagoya from Cairns no info given as to what will be given if anything to replace these. So looks like we will have to wait until the Cairns Post tells us. Narendra (no JB) informed us that we will know 3 months prior to these destinations going to conform with QF rosters & lines of flying allocated.
As for any movement wait & see but dont hold your breath. Think we will be lucky to be offered MAM if anything. I hope I'm wrong.

Enjoy what we have today cause whose knows what happen later this year.
Fly safe!!:ok:

[raft rower]

The forum certainly wasn't anything to write home about, personally I got the impression that the base is no longer viable from comments made during the meeting. Time will soon tell people, take the happy snaps while you can! :rolleyes: :confused:

[AOskippy]

I attended the forum too, from what our GM said, my impression was that AO management is working on something with QF route networking; due to business sensitivity, words can not be leaked out yet, and we'll have to wait for another 3 months or so to find out. Therefore, I'm keeping my hopes positive and wish for the best. Happy flying everyone!

[midsection]

Any news from The Far North:O

[YONLY]

I hear today that from April AO will be losing an aircraft. KIX and NGO services to be reduced and excess crew to be transferred to MEL long haul. How credible is this and has anyone else heard anything of this nature?

[Kangacrew]

In relation to AO losing AC come april that will not happen. However we never say never in these times! J*Int will be doing KIX from Sydney (I think) & NGO is not commencing until the 2nd of Aug. But as with all information provided anything could happen. There has been the Melbourne rumour floating around for months if it comes into frution is another story. We'll have to wait & see.
;)

[flitegirl]

the issue is not really dependant upon jetstar's schedule, what we are discussing here is, are our daily services to KIX and NGO being reduced come April, and if so, what will happen to the excess crew.

[RaverFlaver]

Nearly all of my flights to KIX and NGO have been full. The loads have been great, except in J class.

Other crew experiencing the same?

RaverFlaver :)

[goldcoast fa]

For those that may be interested there is a pretty good discussion going on in D and G Reporting In the Dunnunda and Godzone Forum about possibilities for our future.

Title: AOWL

Hang in there guys. Keep smiling and enjoy:)

[airbus_galley_girl]

Quote, JAN/FEB 2007

QANTAS'S JAPANESE SHUFFLE

Qantas will switch services from Cairns to Nagoya and Osaka from mid 2007 from Qantas mainline to Jetstar International because of Jetstar's much lower cost base, making it more suited for the largely suited leisure orientated services.
Jetstar A330-200's will operate six times a week between Cairns and Nagoya from August 2nd, and four times a week from Cairns to Osaka from September 08th as well as the recently announced Osaka-Brisbane-Sydney services which commence March 25.
Under the revised timetable the Qantas group will offer 55 services a week to Japan, ontop of the seasonal Sapporo flights.
Qantas current 767-300 Nagoya and Osaka services are operated by Cairns base Australian Airlines staff under the Qantas brand. The Australian Airlines Cairns based crew will be deployed elsewhere on the Qantas newwork.:D
:} SYD-LH / BNE-LH and MEL-LH watch out, here they come!!!!!

[QF skywalker]

Ok settle down you lot !

The reduction in AO operated services is nothing to worry about. The change in schedule you see on the website is just the 'triangulations ' we used to operate when we were AO. For instance CNS-NGO-KIX (overnight ) KIX-CNS is back.

This happened last year, and the year before that. JQ will as announced will takeover these services from Aug and Sep respectively.

[Sonique]

Can somebody from the LH FAAA or AO management please explain how one of our male AO flight attendants just took a secondment in 'Cabin Crew Scheduling' in SYD ????

How and where was the job advertised ?
Can the rest of us now apply for internal positions ?
Since when have subsidiaries of QF been able to apply for internal positions ? ( NEVER )

If this crew member is able to take this position, then return to his position at AO after the secondment, then I can not see why the rest of the crew are not allowed to apply for other jobs..i.e - LHR base.

[GalleyHag]

1. These jobs are advertised via EQ.
2. Yes, most jobs will say you must be an employee of the Qantas group of companies. If the position is restricted to Qantas employees or other divisions it tells you to speak with your manager or I think peopleconnect.
3. Always - A quick look through EQ today will show you that.

Maybe you do not have access to EQ? If not speak with your manager about internal positions. I just had a quick flick through and quite a few jobs are available to all qantas group employees including secondments.

In the past all internal positions were advertised via a blue notice I think from memory.

The F/A has done nothing wrong, you and every other employee of the Qantas group of companies are able to apply for internal positions. This happens everyday.

Good luck with LHR I hope they do give AO crew the opportunity.

[air doris]

Hi everyone just want to add my comments. It is absolutely frustrating out on line at the moment. I keep hearing all sorts of stories like we will be offered LH here or there, MAM or flying here or there, the latest I heard was Canada, but honestly (and I'm not intentionally being rude) but where on earth do you actually get this information from? Does someone have an inside informer? I know this is a rumour web site but people are actually taking posts here as truth when in reality it is pure speculation. I'm serious, I have worked with crew who actually seem to take what they read here or hear elswhere as gospel. It's fine to speculate but I have noticed amongst crew, especially those that read this site that these "rumours" are being taken in the wrong context and causing anxiety. The fact is "Yes" something is brewing, that is obvious due to the loss of flying and no announced new flying (as yet) so lets just wait until we hear facts from QF management, there is no use speaking to our management because they are in exactly the same position we are. QF management will decide our future or fate and they are the only ones who hold the truth. Unless there is a "leaker" in the ranks I wouldn't believe or assume anything you hear. Enjoy your job as you always have, assume business as usual until you hear otherwise from the correct source. Mind you in our case it probably will be the Cairns Post and we will get an official letter the next day, however I hope you get my point.

Sorry to put a dampener on things but as I said it's every flight now I hear something about our future and I do know it's worrying and I know it's great to gossip about the latest speculation but thats really all it is.

Another thing, I read a lot of comparing "us to LH". I don't get it. We all do the same job, both departments have a cross section of employees, we both have extremely proffessional crew, we both also have a very small percentage who don't pull their weight. Unfortunately it's a fact of life in any job. It may be that we have experienced some bad crew on LH but we also have bad flights, however we are not even nearly subjected to the rosters that our LH collegues are. Our flying is easy, in fact the easiest on the whole network and the most lucrative. We have had it good for a long time. I would be very wary about future comments about comparing us to LH because as "speculation" has it you may just end up working with them.

[RaverFlaver]

Canada. WTF? Hilarious - I hadn't heard that one.

I'm sure we will all find out in the not so distant future.

Happy flying all :O

[mid assist]

Canada, that's a good one. air doris, great post. My thoughts are your thoughts.
Let's wait and see.

Mid assist

[airbus_galley_girl]

There is a rumour of an annoucement to be made end of this week or early next week~ Anybody got any ideas????:8

[flitegirl]

Just updating the thread.....

Word is that Jetstar international are currently interviewing and applicants are being told that positions are based in Sydney, Melbourne and CAIRNS.

I guess it was inevitable. On the positive side, I guess it means AO boys and girls wont be required to hang orange in their wardrobes once again. Phew:cool:

[Sonique]

They are probably hiring some initial CNS base JQI staff so that they can be trained. Then of course, with their whole 4 months experience of flying will train the AO crew when they are forced into the JQ polo shirts.

Australian Airlines rocked.....I still can't believe what they did to the great airline it was :\

[flitegirl]

I'm not convinced that theory is all that logical. They will not require anywhere near the amount of crew as AO have. Remember their schedule (and I realise it will change in the future) out of Cairns will be 10 departures per week.

[Sonique]

so tell us what you think will happen then flitegirl...........

[Sonique]

Again I am hearing the whole AO operation is moving to BNE. This time from quite a reliable source.

BNE-CNS-NRT
BNE-HKG
BNE-MNL-SYD

[AOskippy]

Sonique,

Sounds reasonable. Just can't see why they want to keep CNS base after NGO/KIX are gone. But I guess until AO techie's EBA is finalised and signed off, our future is still in the limbo. Simply wish the company pull their fingers out, waiting is no fun any more, it's killing everyone's morale.:ugh:

[RaverFlaver]

I think Sydney could be a possiblity too. There seems to be more 767 flying out of there than BNE.
Another strong rumour is SYD - CGK.
Really once NGO and KIX are gone we will only have NRT out of CNS. Why keep the base operating up there for the sake of one destination which can be crewed from the destination of origin being BNE and SYD.
Personally I think NRT will go to J*I as soon as they have an aircratft spare to throw on the route, given JAL has approved for code sharing on J*I.
I'm sure we will find out in the not so distant future.
RaverFlaver :)

[qcc2]

the MEL base needs 400 F/a's for LH. Bne has too many in LH, as has SYD. Add ongoing LSL allocation and MEL looks like the logical choice for you AO guys. start packing some jumpers. At least there is a bit more choice.:rolleyes:

[lowerlobe]

I understand how frustrating this is because I have been with QF for 30 years now and have seen them dithering time and time again.

You might go to Mel or Bne or anywhere for that matter however nothing is going to happen until (IF) the take over goes ahead.

Sonique..it does not matter how good you or your division is or are all that matters is how much money they think they will spend (save) and what their crystal ball tells them that day.

They are more than likely to move all of you to Mel and then 6 months later offer you are Cairns basing....nature of the beast.

Enjoy Cairns and make the most of it because it is a good spot to be and we know because we used to fly there and because of that we understand the only certainty in this job is that nothing stays the same for ever..unfortunately

[mid assist]

It just doesn't add up maintaining a base in CNS for 2 outbound international flights.Change is inevitable! Too what extent........ who knows.

[air doris]

With all this talk on here about us going to BNE or MEL LH do we really believe that QF will employ us on mainline conditions and pay especially when the whole agenda at the moment is to "diminish" LH mainline conditions, especially with an EBA up for negotiation soon? My point of view only is no they wouldn't. The last thing QF management would want is another 200 or 300 so additional crew on those conditions (don't get me wrong I would love it) but I just cant see it. However I guess there is nothing to say that AO crew cant be relocated to any other base in Australia and we could become another employment agency just like MAM, hell we are pretty much like that anyway, except we cost more than MAM and have benefits, at least until the end of the year when our EBA is up too.
I still believe that what we are hearing is only speculation (as I said in my above post), however we have to remember that our pilots are "safe", regardless of what happens to AO, they slip back into Qantas. We as a team of cabin crew are the ones that have the most to lose. AO cant operate without pilots and as we all know all our pilots come from Qantas and we cant hire external pilots. AO Cabin Crew don't have a lot to fall back on if they close us down. I believe we will have a job somewhere but certainly not on LH pay and conditions. If we were to be relocated to say BNE or MEL as AO and cross crewing on different a/c types etc what happens to our CSM's? Understandably I can't see a great deal of respect from local based crew's who are waiting for that position only to be bumped. Will they have to go back to FA? I'm sure many would to keep their job.

Anyway, lets not get too excited, time will tell and one lesson I have learned in this industry is it is completely out of your control.

[lowerlobe]

Air Doris...The company has 3 options..

Things stay the way they are...possible but unlikely

You are shut down.....Which I hope is unlikely and because there is still flying that you do.

You are relocated to another base...I believe this is the most likely.

I don't think your award is an issue as S/H and L/H both cross crew with different crew on different awards..some cheaper than the other.

MAM work with permanent S/H

AKL and Thai based crew work with L/H

In any case our EBA is also up at the end of the year so it's not impossible that we all end up on the same award and fly together....

As I said before the company does not know on a Friday what they are going to do on a Monday.

[mid assist]

Yes Lobe, for once you might be onto something. With a possible new owner, you might find yourself working for a "NEW L/H" . One that starts getting back all international ops because it's cost base is competitive again.

[YONLY]

Heard a pilot who's contract is up for renewal in the next couple of months asked one of the 'pilot managers' that in order to decide he needs to know more about what's going to happen with AO. Managers response was apparently all will be revealed before time to renew contract...

Also heard that certain cabin crew manager was in the big smoke discussing viability of Cairns base. Possibility of southern city becoming AO base.

Heard all this before though! Happy travels all...

[lowerlobe]

mid assist...I think your beginning to understand...Both of us are in the same boat when it comes to cost base.

Unfortunately the company has found other ways to reduce this.This is why L/H is losing flying ,S/H is being diluted with casuals (MAMS) and AO is no longer with us...

The company has no problem finding people wanting to fly and who are willing to accept less pay for it.

We all might find ourselves in a new division or maybe if we end up on S/H conditions maybe just one !!!!

My point to Air Doris though was to sit back and enjoy the life up in Cairns..

[flitegirl]

If we were to be relocated to say BNE or MEL as AO and cross crewing on different a/c types etc what happens to our CSM's?....Will they have to go back to FA?

Air Doris, I like your thought process. There's a small proportion of CMs at AO who could benefit from a down grade in category as they perhaps shouldn't have been there to begin with:D

[goldcoast fa]

Australian Airlines does have a different EBA and work conditions than those of other groups in the Qantas network and yes it is possible that they can all work together, but the difference at AO is that we have a different AOC.

Under our present format we are unable to cross crew and can only fly with our pilots and our slightly different procedures.

If we were to move to another port and personally for me I would love it, we would have to stay together as a group at present.

Thats not to say that things cant or wont change.

When is the big announcement of our 2 new destinations, which everyone seems to know about going to be officially announced? We keep hearing at the end of the week- but that has been going around for 4 weeks now.

[mid assist]

I'm sure you would love to be based in SOUTHERN QLD goldcoast fa! Hang In there mate, Qantas will show their cards. My bet is for it to happen after the sale deadline.

[Tropicalchief]

Spot on flitegirl, however I would be more uncharitable and suggest that 90% of CSM's should not be there particularly in short-haul. They are the worst.

[mid assist]

Ok, I'm not going to get into a debate on who shouldn't be a CM (csm) and who should be at AO. The point I would like to make is, why would QF want to get rid of, or downgrade 45 CMs' earning much less than mainline CSMs' doing the same job. AO will continue to operate it's own AOC whilst the labour savings and a flexible EBA is still in place.

[YONLY]

This is all just pure speculation. The only reason CSM's would be demoted is if we merged into Qantas, which is about as likely as an immaculate conception! I totally agree with mid assist. And when it comes to the qualty of our CSM's, sure there are a couple that shouldn't be there but the vast majority of them are fine.
Come on guys is there any credible news on the future of AO...?

[flitegirl]

I heard yesterday that the company is about to offer more VR to AO crew. Not sure how many though.

[sydney s/h]

Tropicalchief,

As i shorthaul CSM i take great offense to what you are saying....

"I would be more uncharitable and suggest that 90% of CSM's should not be there particularly in short-haul. They are the worst."

90% is nearly every CSM in SH. Thats a big call.

I would presume then, you have flown with nearly every CSM in the SH division - SYD, BNE, MEL and PER bases. Only 10% rate in your books. So literally hundreds of CSM are "the worst".

Gee i would like to meet you and have you on my crew one day. You would think i'm "the worst" person in the world by the time i'd finished with you.

[AOskippy]

Hi all, just got an email from our Cabin Crew Manager advising us that JQI will be advertising for their CNS based crew, and we are welcome to apply like any other QF groups. What is that suposed to mean? We should look for jobs while we can? Still not a word about our future!!! Personally, I couldn't careless about the FA position with JQI, not interested, don't want to work for them, don't want to be in CNS any more, just want to contiue flying for QF. AO managers, pull your fingers out, please!:ugh:

[YONLY]

Everyone have a BACK UP PLAN! Our "managers" are going to do nothing for us! They take the chocolates and fruit off our crew snacks to meet their KPI's!

On that note everyone should voice their concerns over this matter either to the union or the JCC. This has happened across the board at Qantas. We are not Qantas though! Now whilst we are QF in uniform and product we do not get the same crew meal as them, we get a nutritious economy tray. The old AO crew meals were far more superior to this! Why should we receive less nutrition than our QF counterparts? Are our needs less than theirs because our pay is less? The answer is because we never say anything! We just take it....

I notice that there are still two chocolate bars and two pieces of fruit for the tech crew!

[australian boy]

:) Best of luck to all (AO) crew, hope it all works out for the best for all the Cabin Crew team in Cairns. I started my flying career with (AO) when it was launched in 2002 and have to say that the Cabin Crew were the best I have ever worked with in the industry. Hope QF recognise the support and dedication you guys have put in since (AO) started and look after you all.

Happy Flying

Australian Boy :)

[AOskippy]

Yonly,

You had a valid point there, but at the moment, is it that important to ask for our chocolate and fruit back? Personally, I'd rather be knowing the big picture of our future. If loosing chocolate and fruit guarantees our future with QF, I'm quite happy to comply. There are more urgent agenda to be discussed other than food, just my 2 cents worth of opinions.

[YONLY]

I realise that fruit and chocolate are very small scale things but if we cave in to everything then we may as well apply to JQI as our conditions will be the same! Where does it stop? Does voicing our concerns to the company have a detrimental effect?

This company is never going to provide us with a secure future scenario because it keeps everyone scared and willing to say yes to anything. The less we know the more scared we are about our future and the better position the company is in. So don't expect any announcements any time soon.

We got done once before, let's give make it harder to happen again!

[flitegirl]

Skippy,

I agree, it does seem like they are trying to thin out the ranks! I have also recently heard that VR is on its way again for AO crew - plus this latest memo, it's does seem like they are encouraging us to apply. They never distributed such memos when Sunstate or Jetstar domestic were recruiting in Cairns. Does anyone else smell a rat? oh yeah, it's on the tail.

[RaverFlaver]

I think it's obvious what that email means. They need to down size our base. Maybe things aren't looking so promising with this latest news. I would have thought they would keep the number of crew we have with the 2 new apparent destinsations coming. Maybe that's not happening now???

Like last time folks, sit back relax and read about it when the papers hit the racks.

Raverflaver

[lowerlobe]

Interesting development in Saturday's paper.....Read the last line!!!!!!!

"The warning was issued as Transport Minister Mark Vaile announced that Middle Eastern carrier Qatar Airways would be allowed to operate daily flights to Melbourne and start daily services to another major airport from 2008.

In return, Australian airlines would be able to use Qatar as a hub for flights to Europe"

Perhaps some of you will be able to move to the sand box.Is this the rumour some of you have talked about?

At the very least you seem to have new destinations or is it AUSTRALIAN airlines meaning an airline that is Australian.

[Kangacrew]

Don't get too carried away! With Qatar flying into (Mel) Australia the article in the Australian newpaper is implying that Australian carriers will be able to fly to Qatar as a reciprical agreement.

Looks very interesting that we have been offered to apply to Jet*int again as with the previous VR's. Looks like there is movement in the air. Can't imagine anyone wanting to apply unless they are the japanese crew wanting to keep flying to Japan to visit their family or those who call Cairns home now.
If we are part of the Qantas group & offered Jet*Int then why have we not been asked to apply for the London base?? Interesting....

Anyway sure something will come out of this soon enough so we call plan our lives.
Fly safe!!:D

[flitegirl]

lobe,

I am sure the article is referring to Australian airlines, meaning VH reg. carriers in general. Or were you just being funny and I missed the gag - because that was pretty funny.

[RaverFlaver]

Rumour of QF LH VR. Another reason I suspect the base is going.

[mrpaxing]

the deal between the australian and qatar government means qatar airlines can fly daily to mel(via bkk,good for stafftravel) and from next year syd (why would they go anywhere else). in return Qf can go through qatar to europa ? not qf mainline but maybe J*.:rolleyes:

[flitegirl]

ok, let's get back on track here. I think we all know AO will crew will never be flying to the middle east. This thread is to discuss our cabin crew's concerns regarding the future of our operations in Cairns.

Back to business.

[raft rower]

I guess we can now see the reason behind yesterday's 4pm email to crew regarding Jetstar Int'l positions in Cns, with the ad for these positions being in this weekends cairns post. :uhoh: :ugh:

[mid assist]

Don't look too much into the memo. I think someone was trying to communicate to us crew, before we read Saturdays' Cairns Post. There is a write up about JQI hiring 70 crew for their CNS base operation. All Qantas group employees are welcome to apply as is the general public. Let's wait and see what happens!

[qcc2]

sounds like qf and J* management trying to shift some of you guys across to J* at reduced conditions.my bet still stands you guys be offered the mel /syd/bne (in that order)base. what to do with your CM's? thats the sticking issue as you only work on the 767? interesting times. i am sure there be a second and third option coming. good luck;)

[RaverFlaver]

Is there any truth to the rumour of more VR being offered to QF LH?

[twiggs]

Still just a rumour, or maybe wishful thinking.
I've flown with so many people lately who are ready to go now, but were not last year.

[roamingwolf]

Boys and Girls
You gotta laugh don't you.
What a company to work for with people hoping to be made redundant.
The story was that there was to be a package in March and people in the office probably love starting those rumours.Thats why we like them so much.
But there is still a week or 2 to go

[lowerlobe]

Not good!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[goldcoast fa]

Yes. Not good. But there is nothing new here.

We have known this is happening for the last few months which is why we know that something has to change for us.

When Jetstar Int start out of Cairns we lose 50 % of our international flying from Cairns. At this stage we will have twice daily NRT, the connecting flights to SYD and BNE and our services to Manila ex SYD and BNE.

The rumour is that we are getting additional services to compensate for this loss but nothing said yet!

And if so, from what port and how viable does the basing in CNS become!

Already every Monday we have 23 crew paxing on the domestic CNS SYD for positioning to MNL and EPS. They cant keep that up if the new routes are ex BNE or SYD.

We just have to be a little bit more patient I suppose. Maybe this week!

[Tropicalchief]

Personnally, I would like to see AO crews absorbed into QF long haul as all my experiences with them, as with QF long haul have been vastly superior to those on short haul services. Professional and obliging, extending service instead of waiting to be asked a la short haul. I'm talking business class here.

On a recent lunch-time flight from Sydney, the S/H crew did not emerge from behind the curtain until 45 minutes after take-off. There seems to be a general reluctance by them to serving drinks because they are rarely offered, and if you dare ask for another you subject yourself to the risk of being harangued by some middle-aged, over-wrought, suburban hausfrau (CSM) on the evils of the demon drink. I think, sydney s/h, the last sentence of your post says it all .

[mid assist]

Thanks for the compliment Tropicalchief. That Australian artical is nothing new. JQI seems to be on a role. Let's see if they can reverse the trend on a declining market for the Japanese.

[airbus_galley_girl]

The Future of AO?? What’s management saying?

Crew would be aware of the recent advertising of 70 cabin crew positions for Jetstar International to be based in Cairns, including a preference for Japanese speakers. The head of the FAAA, the Divisional Secretary, Michael Mijatov, contacted Qantas management about these positions in Cairns. Qantas management has again stated that it is committed to the AO base in Cairns and the advertising of these positions does not affect that commitment.

The FAAA will maintain an on-going dialogue with the company regarding job security for Australian Airlines crew in Cairns. We will continue talking to and pressuring the company for information to let crew plan for their futures.

Duty Free
Many crew have contacted the FAAA regarding accounts they have received from Alpha In-Flight Retail (Duty Free). Duty free sellers have been asked to make up revenue shortages. As per current policy, crew are taking the money and any vouchers to Travelex when returning to Cairns.
However, the content of the wallet is not being verified with the Travelex teller!

Ask yourself – When was the last time you went to any bank in Australia and didn’t get a receipt for funds you deposited into an account?

From now on ALL FAAA members are instructed to have the contents of the wallet verified. You should ask the Travelex teller to count the money and verify number of vouchers and travellers cheques whilst you are present to observe. The Travelex teller then should stamp and sign the pink copy of the Inflight Sales Trip Record (ISTR) and return it to you. All vouchers, currency and travellers cheques should be notated as being accounted for.

All crew should also keep the tear-off portion of the Inflight Sales Revenue Wallet (ISRW). This will be returned to you by the Travelex teller with the date, Travelex staff number, branch and the teller’s signature on it.

All crew should keep the ISTR and ISRW for a minimum of 6 months. Should Travelex query the revenue, you will have the correct documentation and procedures in place – Happy selling!

Accommodation
Crew should be aware that all hotels we stay in are to provide NON-SMOKING rooms as per our EBA.

There are problems with some hotel rooms:

Mercure Sydney
in the vicinity of the lift wells;
in the vicinity of the atrium on level 13 (area with lounges);
that have access doors to the rooftop pool; and
that are near the staff cleaning/room service access door.
The FAAA is again receiving copies of crew ICANs regarding sub-standard bathrooms, with smells of sewage, mould and hairs (nice one!).

Narita
In the main building – Near lift well – Rooms ending in 01 and 14; and
In the annex wing – rooms near lift well and rooms near the train crossing (rooms 2220 and 2320)
Manila
Rooms overlooking the pool/entertainment area; and
Rooms near the lift wells.
If you are allocated one of these rooms, please ask to be moved.

DUDE! Where is my token!
Most crew would be aware that Crewnet was a major company initiative for the last EBA.
We have now passed 19 MONTHS since the EBA was certified! But the company promised to make Crewnet available long before that – we thought the EBA was just confirming that commitment!

It is a little distressing and entirely frustrating that we still do not have access to Crewnet, whilst the company has had the full range and extent of the concessions that crew made to the company in the EBA since the EBA was certified. One company email from December 2004 claimed that Crewnet would be available from any computer with internet connection!

To access Crewnet, cabin crew have since been told that they will require a token which the company is yet to issue. Whilst dates have been set and documentation has been provided, we still have no tokens and no Crewnet! We call on management to rectify this EBA promise now!!

Annual Leave Allocation
Many crew have expressed their dissatisfaction with the current random allocation of leave numbers.
Whilst it is not going to be always achievable to get special events like Christmas and Easter off – We need your input to achieve a better system. Please email us with what you think should be the appropriate method of allocating leave fairly to crew. All suggestions welcome.

WHAT – NO CHOCOLATE??
Crew would be aware that in the last month that all chocolates and bulk loaded crew fruit is no longer loaded for crew. We are pursuing this issue with management and will report back to crew shortly.

The pre-departure snack now consists of a sandwich with no vegetarian option. Additionally, the main meals all contain meat with no vegetarian option. We consider that crew should be provided with 2 vegetarian options out of the 7 crew meals provided. While the tech crew receive a full business class meal, cabin crew receive a regular economy tray.

Cabin Crew Brief
Recently management issued a Cabin Crew Brief to crew reportedly outlining the details of an incident where a crew member suffered URTI during a tour of duty. We are disappointed that management chose to put these details to crew, as the crew member involved was upset and the details were not correct. In this case, the crew member saw a doctor before reporting for duty but was told they would be okay. This was not the case, but the details in the Cabin Crew Brief were incorrect. The crew member here tried to do the right thing for everyone!

We believe that management can always put out a reminder to crew to be careful about sickness, but there is no need to issue details to everyone. We are sure that management wouldn’t appreciate any mistakes they make being broadcast to crew in an FAAA newsletter!

Did you know??
The FAAA does not automatically receive copies of your ICAN. For us to find out what is really happening, you need to inform us!!

How can you inform the FAAA?
There’s the green FAAA box in crew lounge. Photocopy and drop your ICANs off to us or leave other information.

Email: [email protected] or [email protected]

Phone the Sydney office 1800 267 952 or Shane Wade on 0421 917 830
Write to FAAA: Reply Paid 83423 Mascot NSW 2020

Your Rights at Work!
Your Rights at Work is a campaign organised by the Australian Council of Trade Unions (ACTU). The FAAA is a member of the ACTU and fully supports the campaign to defeat the draconian so-called “WorkChoices” laws of the federal coalition government. These laws seek to defeat the union movement with their direct attack on both collective and individual employment rights. Now it’s more important than ever for crew to remain members of the FAAA and encourage the few remaining crew who are not members to join.
Check out the website for more information: www.rightsatwork.com.au

[QF skywalker]

27th March 2007 Attention all Australian Airlines Flight Attendants

AUSTRALIAN AIRLINES NEWS UPDATE

The Future of AO?? What’s management saying?

Crew would be aware of the recent advertising of 70 cabin crew positions for Jetstar International to be based in Cairns, including a preference for Japanese speakers. The head of the FAAA, the Divisional Secretary, Michael Mijatov, contacted Qantas management about these positions in Cairns. Qantas management has again stated that it is committed to the AO base in Cairns and the advertising of these positions does not affect that commitment.



The FAAA will maintain an on-going dialogue with the company regarding job security for Australian Airlines crew in Cairns. We will continue talking to and pressuring the company for information to let crew plan for their futures.



Duty Free

Many crew have contacted the FAAA regarding accounts they have received from Alpha In-Flight Retail (Duty Free). Duty free sellers have been asked to make up revenue shortages. As per current policy, crew are taking the money and any vouchers to Travelex when returning to Cairns.

However, the content of the wallet is not being verified with the Travelex teller!



Ask yourself – When was the last time you went to any bank in Australia and didn’t get a receipt for funds you deposited into an account?



From now on ALL FAAA members are instructed to have the contents of the wallet verified. You should ask the Travelex teller to count the money and verify number of vouchers and travellers cheques whilst you are present to observe. The Travelex teller then should stamp and sign the pink copy of the Inflight Sales Trip Record (ISTR) and return it to you. All vouchers, currency and travellers cheques should be notated as being accounted for.



All crew should also keep the tear-off portion of the Inflight Sales Revenue Wallet (ISRW). This will be returned to you by the Travelex teller with the date, Travelex staff number, branch and the teller’s signature on it.

All crew should keep the ISTR and ISRW for a minimum of 6 months. Should Travelex query the revenue, you will have the correct documentation and procedures in place – Happy selling!



Accommodation

Crew should be aware that all hotels we stay in are to provide NON-SMOKING rooms as per our EBA.



There are problems with some hotel rooms:

Mercure Sydney

o in the vicinity of the lift wells;

o in the vicinity of the atrium on level 13 (area with lounges);

o that have access doors to the rooftop pool; and

o that are near the staff cleaning/room service access door.



The FAAA is again receiving copies of crew ICANs regarding sub-standard bathrooms, with smells of sewage, mould and hairs (nice one!).

Narita

o In the main building – Near lift well – Rooms ending in 01 and 14; and

o In the annex wing – rooms near lift well and rooms near the train crossing (rooms 2220 and 2320)

Manila

o Rooms overlooking the pool/entertainment area; and

o Rooms near the lift wells.

If you are allocated one of these rooms, please ask to be moved.



DUDE! Where is my token!

Most crew would be aware that Crewnet was a major company initiative for the last EBA.

We have now passed 19 MONTHS since the EBA was certified! But the company promised to make Crewnet available long before that – we thought the EBA was just confirming that commitment!



It is a little distressing and entirely frustrating that we still do not have access to Crewnet, whilst the company has had the full range and extent of the concessions that crew made to the company in the EBA since the EBA was certified. One company email from December 2004 claimed that Crewnet would be available from any computer with internet connection!



To access Crewnet, cabin crew have since been told that they will require a token which the company is yet to issue. Whilst dates have been set and documentation has been provided, we still have no tokens and no Crewnet! We call on management to rectify this EBA promise now!!



Annual Leave Allocation

Many crew have expressed their dissatisfaction with the current random allocation of leave numbers.

Whilst it is not going to be always achievable to get special events like Christmas and Easter off – We need your input to achieve a better system. Please email us with what you think should be the appropriate method of allocating leave fairly to crew. All suggestions welcome.



WHAT – NO CHOCOLATE??

Crew would be aware that in the last month that all chocolates and bulk loaded crew fruit is no longer loaded for crew. We are pursuing this issue with management and will report back to crew shortly.



The pre-departure snack now consists of a sandwich with no vegetarian option. Additionally, the main meals all contain meat with no vegetarian option. We consider that crew should be provided with 2 vegetarian options out of the 7 crew meals provided. While the tech crew receive a full business class meal, cabin crew receive a regular economy tray.



Cabin Crew Brief

Recently management issued a Cabin Crew Brief to crew reportedly outlining the details of an incident where a crew member suffered URTI during a tour of duty. We are disappointed that management chose to put these details to crew, as the crew member involved was upset and the details were not correct. In this case, the crew member saw a doctor before reporting for duty but was told they would be okay. This was not the case, but the details in the Cabin Crew Brief were incorrect. The crew member here tried to do the right thing for everyone!



We believe that management can always put out a reminder to crew to be careful about sickness, but there is no need to issue details to everyone. We are sure that management wouldn’t appreciate any mistakes they make being broadcast to crew in an FAAA newsletter!


Did you know??

The FAAA does not automatically receive copies of your ICAN. For us to find out what is really happening, you need to inform us!!


Written by Shane Wade - Divisional Councillor and Victoria Skinner - National Industrial Officer
and authorised by Michael Mijatov - Secretary International Division

[speedbirdhouse]

It was actually someone elses assumption made on the D&G forum.

http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269987

[airbus_galley_girl]

So the next question is when are they going to make the annoucement to transfer AO's crew to MEL, SYD or BNE Short Haul???
:D

[cokecropduster]

Rumour is that the next 3-4 months will be interesting...

[YONLY]

Sounds to me like the future of AO may have been decided! Hope we find out something soon and can all get on with our lives.
Just read the press statement on the website and it differs to the Australian article a little:
"Four Boeing 767-300 aircraft from our international fleet that were due to be sold from mid-2007 will now be transferred to domestic operations."
Whilst JQI would be a pay decrease those who want to stay flying and in Cairns should consider it... Anyone willing to move this could be the start of something great!
Happy flying all. Enjoy those joyous Japanese overnights while you can!:)

[GalleyHag]

Airbus Galley Girl

Good luck with those bases more like Perth!

[flitegirl]

Or none at all. I don't know if it will be that simple:*

[airbus_galley_girl]

Australian Airlines emergency procedures slightly differ from mainline. It's easy enough to be re-trained (could do it in 2 days) and at the same time endorsed on other aircraft. I.e SH 737, 330 etc....

:bored:

[stubby jumbo]

'hate to be the bearer of bad newz.

BUT I just read online in the SMH that Gregg is going to beef up the Domestic capacity by 20% by moving 4x763's off International flying to Domestic.
Also JQ are to get 6 additional A-320's to counter Tiger.

Reason: Go where the cream is and wack in more capacity.

International crews' again are sidelined.

I can smell a wiff of another VR coming on :ugh:

[flitegirl]

Just so we are all on the same page, here is the official media release from the Qantas web site.

Qantas Group Boosts Domestic Fleet Latest News
Sydney, 29 March 2007
Qantas Airways said today it would acquire nine additional Airbus A320 aircraft for use by Jetstar.

The Chief Executive Officer of Qantas, Mr Geoff Dixon, said the new aircraft would be deployed on domestic and short-haul international routes.

"The aircraft will be delivered over a 15-month timeframe from late 2007," he said.

Mr Dixon said Qantas would also boost capacity in the Qantas domestic operations.

"Four Boeing 767-300 aircraft from our international fleet that were due to be sold from mid-2007 will now be transferred to domestic operations.

"The additional capacity for both Jetstar and Qantas, along with previously announced plans for QantasLink, should enable the Qantas Group to maintain its 65 per cent share of the Australian domestic market."

Mr Dixon said the additional A320 aircraft would enable Jetstar to grow on some of its most popular leisure routes including Cairns, Gold Coast, Perth and the Northern Territory.

"Jetstar will also use the new aircraft to look at new destinations within Australia."

[gnieob]

A friend called me today to say there is an ad up in the AO cc sign on room for interest with jobs with Jetstar CNS base????? They said it was from the cc manager? Any further details from anyone who paid closer attention to what it said? It seemed a bit strange to be posting a notice advertising job opportunities in the crew lounge when you haven't even been told what is happening with AO. Very happy to be corrected if this is wrong - otherwise yet another very good example of how little respect our QANTAS/AO management seem to have for our staff morale.

[airbus_galley_girl]

Has anyone actually applied or interested in applying for JQ Int. from AO?:eek:

[YONLY]

You are right! There are two notices in the crew lounge. One is the advertised position and the other is a letter inviting AO employees only to an info session today at 1pm (from memory) at the domestic airport in Cairns. The letter states they are looking for people with Japanese language skills, cabin crew and potential managers.
Am interested to see how many apply...

[Sistema]

:eek:
hopefully a few people in the office will be washed away.. then they will just have to let the news slip!

[QF skywalker]

Although I have been trying to avoid the constant talk in the galley as to what is going to happen to us (were we not in the same position exactly 12 months ago ??? AO-QF ) I am still hearing that CNS-NRT-PER-NRT-CNS is an pattern on the cards - URRRGHHHH !

As for jobs with JQ. I am digging my heals into the QF full service operation. They will have to remove me with force.

[RaverFlaver]

I don't know of any crew who have applied.

I recieved not one but two emails from Jetstar themselves asking me if I was intrerested in a CNS base position.

They must be desperate considering I never even applied.

Raverflaver :)

[left-right-out]

Hey guys! I wouldn't hold my breath on the PER - NRT pattern as Perth base have them back in the bid packs starting next month and these will be once again be operated on A330 aircraft.
As for moving to Perth base, I would love to see you here, but we have just been told that Perth is "at optimal capicity" for cabin crew. Thats not to say that things won't change!
Good luck with everything and stay strong! Don't let them wear you down! You all do a great job!:ok:

[Sistema]

what is the possbility of qf keeping a SH base in cns?

AN had one years ago...


:ooh:

[QF skywalker]

Turning our base into a shorthaul base would prove 'fruitless' for the cabin crew unless we got DTA. ( Now there is an idea for our next EBA )

There is no money in s/h flying for us, we are only paid meal allowances, and i can guarantee you would always be in the air when the clock ticked over to lunchtime-therefore meaning AO provide a meal and eliminating the need to pay an allowance. Remember the DPS-PER-DPS and DPS-SIN-DPS shuttles we did as AO ? Full days work and no allowances to show for it, as they provided a meal onboard.

Bring back CNS-SIN !! I still can't believe the only way to SIN is via DRW.

[parakeet]

A little off the thread (not too far though)...

Has anyone heard of what is planned for the people still 'on hold' for AO?

I've been on hold for a couple of years now and have not heard a peep for a while, either negative or positive. Wondering why they just haven't called me and said 'bad luck buddy'!!!

Is there even a contact person to email/call?

I'm imagining that it's a fruitless position to be in given that AO is losing half of it's roster to JQ Intnl...... just interested?

[mid assist]

Anything is possible parakeet! Though all our flying is being taken away from us bit by bit, things will get very interesting come December. L/H and our Eba s are up, and i'm predicting a fight between L/H and Qantas. That's where we come into it. There are flexabilities we offer that mainline don't. I believe that QF will want to bridge the gap.
What do you think Lowerlobe? (be nice now)!

[samford]

To bridge that gap further, short haul would be an obvious place to put you guys. Siimilar destinations (along with quite a few more), higher hours and reduced pay. Make sure the FAAA explore every avenue if this becomes an option because once you have the domestic FAAA representing you..... well, you just don't want that :ugh:

Good Luck guys.... I'm optimistic something good or at least no worse will come of it, surely?

[ditzyboy]

left-right-out -
What PER-NRT patterns are you talking about? Have you seen the bid books for May or something?

The April bid books contained quite a few NRTs through SYD and MEL (or both), all patterns of three on the 330. There was one pattern with a NRT-PER pax sector. All PER-NRT-PER flights are currently ops by 763 using LH crew (imagine that - LH crew on a LH route!?). The have not been in the PER SH bid book for around 18 months now.

[flitegirl]

Let's ge back on track (again). This thread is about Australian Airlines, not what is and isn't in the Qantas shorthaul bid books.

[lowerlobe]

mid assist......Who knows what is going to happen.

You are right about one thing and that is both of our EBA's are up at the end of the year.

However there are many variables to be considered.

1:Will the takeover go ahead?

If so will the new owners take the easy way out to recoup the massive amount of money they are borrowing?

Will they sell Jetstar and AO and other parts of the group to get immediate cash?

2:Will Darth stick around?

3:What happens with the Federal election?

The water is going to be muddy for some time yet and if you had a crystal ball and knew what is going to happen you could make a lot of money!

What we do know is that the domestic FAAA will sell just about anything to keep or gain flying.Just look at the VB EBA they tried to sell cabin crew and it was voted down by nearly 90%.

We also know that QF S/H is cheaper than both L/H and AO and will continue to be so with the increasing numbers of casuals.As far as the flexibilities that AO have is concerned I wouldn't think too much about them because as I said S/H are even more flexible.

Unless you are prepared to do what S/H are or have then you are in the same boat as us with the exception that QF mainline have a historical advantage and public sympathy simply because QF has been around longer.

Make no mistake though as Darth has said on a number of occassions that he would like to close us down and have overseas bases.The problem with that is that the rumours about the LHR base losing money refuse to go away.

As far as L/H industrial action is concerned ,it would depend on who is in Government and what the EBA is like that the company wants us to accept.

You may only have to wait around 14 days to see what happens with the takeover then some of the fog around AO ,Jetstar and QF will clear a bit and we might have a better idea of which way the dice have rolled.

[mid assist]

Thanks for the reply Lowerlobe. S/h mainline seem to be the golden child at the moment. However come next year I believe the tide will turn. All crew know that we are in for change. The APA bid will go through. If they want it so badly they will get it! Once it does as you mention, we should soon see what plans they have for Qantas. One thing I know is they will need front line staff, though at what cost!

As for AO let's wait and see! I'm sure we will lose some crew to JQI. The ones who want to remain in CNS. The others' should buckle up as the next 6 months is going to be a rollercoaster ride with plenty of twists and turns.

Hang on!

[flitegirl]

AO Rumour #1,025,147

Management received "the call" from the big boys in Qantas at the end of this week just gone. Post-August-new-destinations have been canned.:eek:

So where does that leave the crew?

[mid assist]

AO will most probably loose about 20-30 crew to JQI cns base. Still confident that the operation will continue to run. Fleet will downsize to 4 a/c use from 5. That means less cabin crew needed. Numbers should be ok, so no job losses.

There is too many flexabilities in our EBA. We will be used as bargain power come December. I believe there will be no negotiation period. It would be take it or leave.

Time will tell. let's hope it's sooner rather than later.

[flitegirl]

If AO are not picking up any new flying from August/September, that is 2 whole aircraft not required. Considering we only utilise around 4.6 aircraft now...... well.... we have about 300 cabin crew so you do the maths.

[RaverFlaver]

I only know of 2 crew attended the JQI seminar, and providing they get interviewed they still have to be accpeted.....

All rather interesting.

Weren't we told that we will find out our new destinations when March came around. Apparently some bull$hit timing about when Qantas announce their schedules.

Well we are into April now and still waiting......

At least we are getting closer to crunch time. The closer it gets to August / September when JQI take over NGO and KIX the sooner we will know.

RaverFlaver :)

[mid assist]

Hi Raver,
Have heard that not many attended the information sessions, however there are a few who have applied, and will make a decision if they make it through. One thing I know is JQI isn't for me. I'm taking the roller coaster ride.
flitegirl, The writing has been on wall for AO for years, We're still here!
At the end of the day it will come down to dollars $$$$

[flitegirl]

Being overstaffed by 50 - 100 crew doesn't look good when it comes down to $$$

[mid assist]

Yes Flitegirl you are correct. At the end of the day, we have a management team that will do its best to make sure we are looked after. They have since day one. That's the culture they created. I believe in destiny. If we keep our jobs (somewhere in the group.... great) If we don't, then so be it!!!

life goes on.

[galleyslag]

Maybe QF will get AO to become mid-haul?

[qfmike737]

Hi everyone!

I was booted out of AO like ages ago...i felt so bad about it I really believed I had great stuff to contribute but didn't feel I was really given a chance to be understood anyways I kinda went mental after it all...actually I had a breakdown. I was sooooo young! TOO YOUNG!

I've had many other chances to redeem myself afterwards as crew in the industry and I took the opportunities and had so much fun. I did really well and had an amazing time!

I dont care about who was right or who was wrong. There's always going to be rumours and now when you can laugh about it all its soooo FUNNY but I am so glad it has F^$#^KING happened to me back then at AO! Farout you know when people say things are meant to be or you end up where you should be it's so true. You dont relise it sometimes but my god what was I actually thinking? People bend over backwards to desperately get themself into this industry in search of their dream lifestyle or dream career which is great you know but when its' all over if you dont know what you REALLY really want it life it can be a total bitch wondering what to do next? You might as well know what you really WANT in life now because when it ends some of you might be sitting around bitching wasting time...I know I did! If I quickly got back into the industry I'd be one of those tainted freaks that carry on and whinge. You know the type?

This industry isn't like it used to be for those enjoying it well great enjoy every bit of it and if it's over well it's not so bad. There is so much else out there! If you're ever sitting there wondering if you'll be around the next year dont just sit there do something about it. Decide what you want and just go for it. If it means leaving to go onto another career go for it. The knowledge and experience you have gained at AO is going to help you alot.

If anyone says you dont fit in or you're just not good enough listen to what they have to say. I'm not gonna say YOU CAN DO IT! I'm just saying if you're not liking it just get out it's NOT worth staying because you are SOOOO much better! and im not talking about getting back into the industry!