Booking out at small airfields

[wrathchild666]

I'm going to be sitting the PPL skills test soon(when this bloody weather settles down!), and i was just wondering, with regards to booking out at smaller airfields(which my instructor has always done on my behalf). For, let's say a one hour VFR flight, do you just trot into the tower and tell them of your intentions? This may seem daft at my stage of training, but it's always been done for me. Even dafter when i've already booked out at a major international(ish) airport when on my cross country qualifying.

Also, is it always necessary to do it on the ground for relatively short flights, say for sightseeing?

[Hampshire Hog]

You should check your club's/instructor's line on this.

However, I have found it depends on the airfield/airport - each has its own process and the only way to find out is to ask when you pay the landing fee on arrival.

For example, at Wycombe, we book out by completing a book in my flying club reception. They then pass the details by phone to the tower, whilst we are getting the aircraft ready. There is no further need to check if the tower received it. If they don't have the details, they ask over the radio.

At Blackbushe, I usually know how long I'm going to be staying. I pay the landing fee and book out - by phone - from the 'C' point in advance. i.e. I simply call the tower, give the registration and say I'd like to book out in advance for - say 45 minutes time.

At Bournemouth, albeit a larger airport, booking out is done by Bournemouth Handling using their computer system.

At Goodwood, booking out by anything other than requesting airfield info and taxi is unnecessary.

And so it goes on. It's always been a bit of a mystery to me why it is necessary to book out a VFR flight, but the process is a definite case of feeling your way and asking around.

Hope this helps.

HH

[LowNSlow]

Look for the big black C in a yellow box on the wall of an office. Wander in there and you should find the booking in/out book there. If you are lucky there may even be a pen there! We all book in/out on the little grass strip I operate from even if it's just a local flight. I'm not sure if it is a legal requirement or not. Have a search around in Pprune as I'm fairly sure this has been asked before.

[wrathchild666]

Thanks for that, i fly from Cumbernauld and the tower is next door to my FTO. It's probably just as easy to wander in and tell them where i'm going, especially as i'd be asking them for the QNH prior to leaving for calculating pressure/density altitude.

Cheers

[Dave Gittins]

At Fairoaks it is accomplished by the first radio call to Info simply to say e.g. " .... Circuit detail 1 on board".

At Luton it involved a call to the tower by phone because they (grnd freq) would give a formal clearance by radio as you were taxing out - it being class D " .. cleared a VFR departure via Pirton not above 1500 feet squawk .... "

At Coventry it was necessary to fax a copy of the details and request to the tower from the "C" point.

I recall once at Chester ... many years ago, trying to book out on the radio and being sent back to the club house to telephone them, first.

Horses for courses ..... :ok:

[Russell Gulch]

It is a legal requirement, but I can't find the reference now.

As stated earlier, ask at the "C" how to book out.

And for those who fly from fields where the standard is to book out over the radio, please don't assume that's the same everywhere else (you Nottingham pilots take note).

[S-Works]

It is a legal requirement, but I can't find the reference now.
As stated earlier, ask at the "C" how to book out.
And for those who fly from fields where the standard is to book out over the radio, please don't assume that's the same everywhere else (you Nottingham pilots take note).


I would indeed be keen to see your reference for booking out being a legal requirement. I am pretty sure you are wrong...........

[Dave Gittins]

It may be a requirement (such as in my post earlier) where a clearance is required or it may be a requirement of the field operator. But as far as being a legal requirement .... where there is no more than an A/G operator you can theoretically fly off - at your discretion - without a word to anybody.

So whilst it may not be a great idea .. I am not sure about the legality.

[Bigears]

MATS Pt 1, Section 1 Chapter 2 Page 7 under Aerodrome Traffic Zones.....
"Booking Out
Pilots who do not file a flight plan, either full or abbreviated, are required to inform the
air traffic service unit at the aerodrome of their departure. This is referred to as
booking out. The air traffic service unit is to record the departure. No further action is
required."
Hope this helps.

[Talkdownman]

Take a look at Rule 20, CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations

Notification of arrival and departure:

20 (1) The commander of an aircraft who has caused notice of its intended arrival at any aerodrome to be given to the air traffic control unit or other authority at that aerodrome shall ensure that the air traffic control unit or other authority at that aerodrome is informed as quickly as possible of any change of intended destination and any estimated delay in arrival of 45 minutes or more.

(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit
at the aerodrome.

(3) Without prejudice to the provisions of rules 27 and 31, before taking off on any flight from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom, being a flight whose intended destination is more than 40 km from the aerodrome of departure, the commander of an aircraft of which the maximum total weight authorised exceeds 5700 kg shall cause a flight plan containing such particulars of the intended flight as may be necessary for search and rescue purposes to be communicated to the air traffic control unit notified for the purpose of this rule.

(4) Without prejudice to the provisions of rules 20(3), 27 and 31, the commander of an aircraft who intends to fly or who flies across any boundary of airspace notified as either the London or Scottish Flight Information Region other than the boundary common to each, shall before so flying, cause a flight plan, containing such particulars of the intended flight as may be necessary for search and rescue purposes, to be
communicated to the appropriate air traffic control unit within the London or Scottish Flight Information Region.

[S-Works]

MATS Pt 1, Section 1 Chapter 2 Page 7 under Aerodrome Traffic Zones.....
"Booking Out
Pilots who do not file a flight plan, either full or abbreviated, are required to inform the
air traffic service unit at the aerodrome of their departure. This is referred to as
booking out. The air traffic service unit is to record the departure. No further action is
required."
Hope this helps.


Still not a LEGAL requirement. No air traffic services of any description at my strip....

[S-Works]

Take a look at Rule 20, CAP 393 Air Navigation: The Order and the Regulations
Notification of arrival and departure:
20 (1) The commander of an aircraft who has caused notice of its intended arrival at any aerodrome to be given to the air traffic control unit or other authority at that aerodrome shall ensure that the air traffic control unit or other authority at that aerodrome is informed as quickly as possible of any change of intended destination and any estimated delay in arrival of 45 minutes or more.
(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit
at the aerodrome.
(3) Without prejudice to the provisions of rules 27 and 31, before taking off on any flight from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom, being a flight whose intended destination is more than 40 km from the aerodrome of departure, the commander of an aircraft of which the maximum total weight authorised exceeds 5700 kg shall cause a flight plan containing such particulars of the intended flight as may be necessary for search and rescue purposes to be communicated to the air traffic control unit notified for the purpose of this rule.
(4) Without prejudice to the provisions of rules 20(3), 27 and 31, the commander of an aircraft who intends to fly or who flies across any boundary of airspace notified as either the London or Scottish Flight Information Region other than the boundary common to each, shall before so flying, cause a flight plan, containing such particulars of the intended flight as may be necessary for search and rescue purposes, to be
communicated to the appropriate air traffic control unit within the London or Scottish Flight Information Region.


I still see nothing in there that makes a legal requirement to book out. References quoted so far are for CAT. Do I have to get air traffic at my strip now in order to book out.......

[Talkdownman]

"(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit at the aerodrome."

Not a legal requirement, then?

[S-Works]

"(2) The commander of an aircraft arriving at or departing from an aerodrome in the United Kingdom shall take all reasonable steps to ensure upon landing or prior to departure, as the case may be, that notice of that event is given to the person in charge of the aerodrome, or to the air traffic control unit or aerodrome flight information service unit at the aerodrome."
Not a legal requirement, then?


Not that I see for booking out. But I stand ready to be enlightened.

[Talkdownman]

I still see nothing in there that makes a legal requirement to book out. References quoted so far are for CAT. Do I have to get air traffic at my strip now in order to book out.......CAT? Civil Air Transport, Clear Air Turbulence, China Air Transport?

It seems to me that you simply need to take all reasonable steps to ensure prior to departure that notice of the event is given to the 'person in charge of the aerodrome'. In the case of 'your strip' that would probably be to yourself. Seems 'legal' enough to me.

[S-Works]

CAT? Civil Air Transport, Clear Air Turbulence, China Air Transport?
It seems to me that you simply need to take all reasonable steps to ensure prior to departure that notice of the event is given to the 'person in charge of the aerodrome'. In the case of 'your strip' that would probably be to yourself. Seems 'legal' enough to me.

It seems sensible enough to me but not LEGAL enough for me. But in preperation for being corrected I will have myself cloned ready to be informed when I am leaving the strip!! :p

[Whirlybird]

The longer I fly, the more I seem to ask questions. I phone airfields and ask if they have special procedures for helicopters, or if the circuit is as I think it is. I arrive, and ask where to go, and where to park. And then what to do, and how I should book in, and out.

In the early days, I thought I was supposed to know all this stuff, so I didn't like to ask. Now I know that no-one knows, and it's different everywhere, and anyway, no-one minds telling you.

One of the most useful things for me was a jumpseat ride, way back when you could, from Sharm el Sheikh to Gatwick. We were taxying at Sharm, and the Captain said to the FO, "Have you ever been here before". "No", said the FO. "Neither have I", said the Captain. And neither of them could understand the ATCO's horrible English, and they didn't know where to go, or what to do. So they bumbled along, and asked lots of times, and worked it out. And I watched, and realised that even airline pilots were only human, and didn't know it all either.

So don't worry; just ask. The same way you would if you weren't a pilot, and were just...going in or out of a car park, or something.

[maxdrypower]

I dont think it is a legal requirment but Im sure when it comes to your skills test you will be required to do it.This would probably come under the flight planning phase of the test . I certainly had to , but I did mine at Liverpool

[englishal]

;) So you have to know in advance what rules to play by.
Thats what the AFD is for

[muffin]

When I depart I am the only one there and the same when I return. So who on earth am I supposed to inform?
I suppose it all comes down to the definition of an aerodrome.

[tmmorris]

The ANO is a law, so that requirement is law. How you do it is up to you; you could argue that if the owner has given you carte blanche to operate at will, then that constitutes notification.

I'm sure I saw somewhere, though, a requirement for aerodrome operators to keep some kind of record, hence the prevalence of signing in/out books at small farm strips with a caravan. I'll have to have a dig. Where's Bookworm when we need him?

Tim

[Talkdownman]

Booking out is required by Statutory Instrument SI 1999/1323. If that isn't law then I don't know what is. I havn't found it a problem for the last 40 years......it's not difficult.

[metar]

At Cumbernauld you book out with your initial radio call:

Cumbernauld Radio G-BLAH request radio check and airfield information for a 1 hour flight to the north, 2 persons on board.

So in fact you have been booking out previously!

[GBALU53]

Well Metar. you seem to have missed out one of the most immportent things on booking out (endurence for the fuel carried)?

So it should be

Booing out = POB + Fuel + Detail with time for the detail.:ok:

[UV]

Seems to me that a lot of people have forgotten about (or not heard of) the saga of Michael Bentine's son (the actor) ....and the consequent highlighting by the CAA, at the time, of the wisdom of booking out, even for short sight seeing flights as mentioned by the first poster.

For anyone who doesent know the story Michaels son (whos name I cannot remember) went for a short jolly with a tug pilot at Lasham, in one of their tugs, and failed to return. The aircraft was not missed for several days and due to lack of information (not booked out) a subsequent search failed to find any wreckage. Eventually, the Super Cub was found some months later in a forest near Petersfield. Both occupants were still in the wreckage.

So, although not a perfect system, isnt it a good idea, legal or otherwise??
UV

[barrow]

I don't know how you do it in uk, but in the usa, we don't have to deal with any of this crap. kick the tyres, light the fires, call the man in the tower, so the man in the plane can give it the power.

[EvilKitty]

I don't know how you do it in uk, but in the usa, we don't have to deal with any of this crap.

So you don't have to sign out in the US?

call the man in the tower

Ahh.. that'll be it then.

What happens at strips with no ATC (in the US)? Is there really no procedure for logging the flights?

[EvilKitty]

It is a lot less controlled here - less paperwork and no "jobs worth" types.

I'm looking forward to flying there more and more each day :cool:

[Halfbaked_Boy]

Does it really matter how 'legal' it is to 'book out' (or not)? It's just a little something called common sense that tells you it is part of the planning process of any flight, and the better your planning, the safer and easier the flight will be.

[englishal]

How do I book out when the radio man had gone home, and there is no one else about? ;) As far as common sense goes, I tell someone "I'm going flying" and roughly where I'm going. If I don't come back, then hopefully someone will miss me :)

[englishal]

Delusional - you could lose your medical with thoughts like that !!!
:) :)
Morning, guess we're on similar time zones;)

[barrow]

booking out, must be same as filing flight plan in us. not required [vfr] but recommended. having a hard time understanding English terminology [caa]. In USA, we have FSS, [flight service station]. you can call them on the phone, file flight plan, get weather brief, notams, all info regarding flight. you can call them in the air on dedicated freq's [rco] I could fly from sanfrancisco to new york, [2,800 statute miles] and stay below 18,000msl and never legally have to talk to one solitary controller, even when i got to the NY Hudson river, flew at 500agl looking UP AT THE SKYSCRAPERS, then flew east, passing JFK 4 miles to the south along the beach, and keep on truckin out to KFOK [gabreski] where i learned to fly in 1992 i never have to say a word to nobody. 1200 on txpndr, stay above, below or beside A,B,C,D airspace and nobody cares. when i was a kid growing up in BARROW-IN-FURNESS, my mother nicknamed me ZERO, cause she said "you'll never amount to anything" ha, if only the old girl could see me now :}