Feeling 'current'

[modelman]

I got my PPL early in December and since then I have had a very thorough checkout in a 172 after which I am permitted to fly our club's 172.
I also took my son for a landaway ( 1 hour each way) that included a radio-less landing at the 'away' field that i think I handled ok (fixed for the return flight) about mid December.
Since then,commitments and the weather has precluded any further flying although I can now go as soon as the wx improves ( will just be a local flight).
I still feel 'current' but I am concerned that I might be kidding myself.
How long have any fellow low hours pplers gone without flying,without refreshing with a FI?
I don't lack confidence when flying and am very thorough with all my planning/checks but I am always wary of over confidence.
Comments please
MM

[Lucy Lastic]

You will have to obey the club currency rules for one thing. But as an early PPL I would suggest you are showing signs of possible over-confidence already.

>>>I still feel 'current' but I am concerned that I might be kidding myself.
How long have any fellow low hours pplers gone without flying,without refreshing with a FI?
I don't lack confidence when flying and am very thorough with all my planning/checks but I am always wary of over confidence<<

I have around 600hrs P1, but I am feeling rusty already 4 weeks after my last flight....

In your position I would try not to let more than 4 weeks go by without a flight

[Wholigan]

I have people with between 5000 and 25000 hours who are flying light single engined aircraft for me and if they go outside 31 days on my aircraft, they have to have a currency check, even if they are current on their airline aircraft or their RAF aircraft!

Read into that what you will. ;)

[TheOddOne]

Try if you can to at least get some circuits in every couple of weeks in the Winter, weekly in the Summer (unless flying weekly elsewhere)

Even after 25 years and nearly 500 hours I feel the benefit of at least 1/2 an hour or so in the circuit. The first one is usually not nearly as neat as the last, just makes the point to me that my 'currency' isn't what I thought it was.

Yes, I still get satisfaction from a well-flown circuit, even after all these years!

TheOddOne

[172driver]

modelman, first of all congrats to your PPL :ok:

The obvious answer is - fly as much as you can. Now, I (and most here) know it ain't that easy, especially in winter. What I do (after a few hundred hours in various a/c) is to fly X-Plane if I haven't flown in, say, one month. Before going up again, I fly 5-10 patterns, a x-country, an instrument approach, a holding pattern, a SID, you name it. Get's the juices going again. No substitute for the real thing, but you do maintain the 'feeling' of looking at an instrument panel, interpreting what you see, and controlling an a/c.

[drauk]

I think the need for currency can be overstated. There are lots of things which probably shouldn't be done if you're not current, like flying in bad weather, flying through complex airspace, flying with additional pressures (nervous or inquisitive passengers, time constraints, etc), flying a new type, flying a particularly complex type and so on.

But let's say you've not flown your 172 for a couple of months. If you approach an easy flight say to an area you're familiar with, in good weather, use your checklists, etc. what's the worst that will happen? You might forget to retract your flaps after take off (so what?), you might fluff up your radio calls (so what?), you might not do the smoothest landing etc. However, if you keep fuel flowing to the engine and watch your airspeed I would imagine that your basic training will take care of the rest (i.e. keeping it the right way up, pointing in the right direction etc.).

On the other hand, if you ask around I'm sure you'll find a local pilot willing to sit in the other seat to keep an eye on you.

[Whirlybird]

What drauk says about sticking to an easy flight is sensible, and works if you can guarantee that it will be an easy flight. But the trouble is that in any flight, conditions can change. The weather may deteriorate slightly, some little thing may go wrong with the aircraft, the circuit may get crowded, ATC may suddenly want to tell you lots of things.

These may all be things that you would take in your stride when you're flying regularly. But the longer you haven't flown, the more you have to concentrate on the actual mechanics of flying. And so you get overloaded more easily by something else - you simply don't have enough spare capacity.

For example, I remember flying one winter when I wasn't as current as I might have been, and the generator light came on. I stared at it stupidly for a bit, thinking, "What does it mean? What shall I do? Should I be worried". Of course, it didn't take long for me to realise that an electrical problem wasn't an emergency, but flying across the Pennines with it in the winter probably wasn't sensible, and that since I was ten minutes from the airfield, going back and sorting it out on the ground was the best idea. No big deal...though it shouldn't have taken me as long as it did. But suppose I'd been further away? Suppose at the same time I'd realised that the cloud base was lowering. Suppose in that minute or two that I was thinking, some other non-current pilot, head down in the aircraft, had approached......?

A trivial incident, you might say. YOU of course wouldn't be thrown by it, even if you hadn't flown for a while. Well, maybe you wouldn't. What do I know? But can you be quite sure?

So yes, if you really know your own abilities and limitations, your own reactions to stress and overload, exactly how quickly your capacity degrades after a lay-off, and precisely how much your thinking corresponds to your actual abilities, then fly alone. But still only do it on a day with good weather, when you're unlikely to have anything else go awry, and stay close to the airfield. But if you're not certain about any of the above, take an instructor, or at least another more current PPL as a safety pilot.

And if anything did go wrong, just think how it would look on the AAIB report........... he hadn't flown for a month, and he didn't have that many hours, but he FELT current, and he THOUGHT it would be OK........

[vancouv]

The whole issue of currency is quite subjective, but if you are questioning it yourself then that's a very good start. I've flown with pilots who are very current and very experienced yet do some very strange things -for example starting a descent from the overhead without getting ATC clearance.

Some people will always be a danger just because of their character, whereas someone more timid may be perfectly safe although rusty just because they are cautious. My club used to have a 28 day currency rule when I started but they then increased it to 60 days which personally I find a bit too long for my own comfort. I've never had a problem during a check-ride, but it's nice to have someone sitting there 'just in case'.

There's nothing to be ahamed of in asking an instructor to sit in with you (especially if you can agree with him that you get the PIC time), but I know if you talk to some pilots they look on it as a failure doing that once you've got your PPL.

Do you what you feel comfortable with and you'll probably be fine.

[172driver]

I think the need for currency can be overstated.


Drauk, I beg to differ. It really comes down to your overall experience. It's not the same if you are (as the OP) a newly-minted PPL or if you have been flying for 25 years with perhaps thousands of hours. It also makes a huge difference if you fly your own a/c which you know inside out or some club plane.

In the case of the OP (and probably many on here, including myself), currency IS important. What Whirly is saying is exactly the point - you may not fly the thing into the nearest hillside, but you will react that little bit slower, take that little more time to understand what's going on, be overloaded easier. Especially if you are low-hours. There are ways around this if you can't go up. Some fly sims (before I get flamed - I am aware of the shortcomings), some go out to the airfield and sit in the a/c for 10, 20 minutes and run checklists. Whatever you end up doing, if you haven't flown in a while (and the definition of 'a while' will vary greatly from pilot to pilot) go up with someone else. Be safe.

[shortstripper]

Currency really is one of those things that comes back to your own comfortable level of risk acceptance (accept in the case of club aircraft where the choice is taken out of your hands). It's a bit like low flying, aerobatics or even just flying ... no matter how experienced you are, there is a risk! The less current you are, the higher the risk that you'll get things wrong. However, I'm also of the opinion that currency can be over emphasised, especially by some clubs (the cynic in me, wonders if a little profiteering goes on in the name of "currency"?). As a aircraft owner the responsibility for keeping current within the legal requirements is placed on your own shoulders. I've never found this a problem and approach the whole thing on how I feel at the time. I have gone months without flying and simply picked a good day, kept the flight simple and felt very comfortable with the whole thing. I have to mention though, that the type of aeroplanes I've owned have all been simple PFA taildraggers with few avionics to worry about and distract attention, which makes staying ahead of the thing easier.

When I was in my twenties I would often go months without flying and have no problems whatsoever checking out (ie, one circuit and off you go) but a couple of years ago it felt a real struggle getting back in the saddle after a one year gap. So age must be one factor IMHO (I'm now 41).
Like others have said, it's not the simple flight that will test you, but rather the unexpected problem that could cause cause you to cock up if less than current. That's why I consider that it comes down to your own assessment of acceptable risk.

SS

[IO540]

Clearly, it depends.

As drauk suggests, if one sticks to short local flights on nice days, then currency is much less important than if one is doing serious flights in real English weather.

An awful lot of GA pilots, the big majority I think, do exactly the former type of flying: short local flights and sticking to nice days. I gather the UK PPL average is somewhere around 10-20hrs/year so there are a lot of people who fly very little.

It doesn't take much to fly a simple plane on a nice day, along the coast and back. Just make sure you stick to the checklist, to make sure nothing has been forgotten.

Personally, I need to be fully current for VFR and IFR and I go up at least once a week no matter what, for a 1hr local flight on which I do various stuff including drilling holes in clouds, and if possible land with an instrument approach. And check out all the kit including the autopilot modes. But then nobody else is flying this plane and you can't leave an engine unused for weeks without getting internal corrosion. That said, in the current weather it is very difficult to get up at all, unless one is based on an airport with an ILS. Together with some long trips into the further corners of Europe, I manage to clock up about 150hrs/year and I regard that figure as my absolute minimum.

[shortstripper]

I wish I earned the same amount as you! :p

SS

[HR200]

I had to have a checkout with an FI on monday because I haven't flown for 4 weeks. I did some circuits with quite a strong crosswind.

I did every landing perfectly on the centerline and everything, but I got a little rusty R/T.

[Hampshire Hog]

My club rule is that you have to fly with an instructor if you haven't flown a club plane in the last 3 months; and let's just say my club is fanatical about quality and safety. I think the 30 day rule that some clubs operate has more to do with their cash flow than your safety.

Having said that, I haven't flown for 2 months and my next session will definitely be back with my instructor - that's as a 65 hour ppl. Seems safest to check I'm up to scratch before flying myself or taking passengers again - if this damn weather ever clears up!

HH

[modelman]

Thanks for all your useful comments.My original intention was to take my wife up in a 152 but that was before all the waiting.
I can still take her but I will do it in a 172 with an instructor in the RHS.
That way,I get to fly with two great buddies!

MM

[Gertrude the Wombat]

The club rule where I fly is 21 days. Personally I'm certainly lots worse after four weeks without flying than after three weeks without flying.

[shortstripper]

The club rule where I fly is 21 days. Personally I'm certainly lots worse after four weeks without flying than after three weeks without flying.

Maybe so, but unless very green, do you think that 21 days is not just a little over cautious???

SS

[Pilot DAR]

I am of the opinion that a lot of "being current" is the ability to recall and apply in a timely fashion, what you were properly taught some time ago.

Short of actually hiring an instructor to fly with me in my plane, I take every opportunity I can to have a check ride. I occasionally fly different types of light aircraft for design change approval test flying, and when I can get a check ride, I certainly do. Sometimes it does not work out though. Test flight of a modified light aircraft is generally permitted minimum crew only. Light plane = 1.

Last summer I was asked to test fly a modified Cessna 185 floatplane (including spinning it at gross weight and both C of G limits). I asked for a check ride, (hadn't flown one in nearly a year) but it was not possible. I sure spent some careful time doing a review of everything before I took off. I took it all really slow and careful (I was not paying by the hour, what's my rush?), and had no skill problems (the plane was a different story, but it eventually passed).

Personally, I'm more worried about the affects of complacency on the quality of my flying, than failure of skill. Until you cheerfully retire from flying on your own terms, never think that you know it all, or have it all under control. Stay ever cautious - but not reluctant to fly. If someone is offering to let you fly their plane, and you feel okay to go, you're probably current. If you're uneasy about something, ask. There's nothing wrong with that. You're probably nearly current, and wise.

If it's your plane, "current" is between you, your insurer, and maybe government requirements. It amazes me how little annual flying my insurer will accept as being current!

If it's someone else's plane, I guess you have to follow their rules...

Cheers, Pilot DAR

[IO540]

I am sure 21 days is way over-cautious for most people who fly reasonably regularly and have done so for years, but there is a broad spectrum of pilots out there, and the aircraft owner can't just walk up to one particular renter and say to him "I don't thing your flying is up to standard". It would be taken as offensive - even if it's true.

So, the owner has to set tight limits which hopefully take care of the least able, the least careful and the least current, and hope that the plane doesn't get wrecked. Or at least doesn't get wrecked too soon; anything rented out to "anyone" is going to get wrecked gradually anyway.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I am sure 21 days is way over-cautious for most people who fly reasonably regularly and have done so for years, but there is a broad spectrum of pilots out there, and the aircraft owner can't just walk up to one particular renter and say to him "I don't thing your flying is up to standard". It would be taken as offensive - even if it's true.
Indeed. It's the other way round - the aircraft owner can tell a renter that they're sufficiently experienced that a longer limit will be applied to them personally.

[IO540]

Sure, but that is then telling other renters that they are not considered good enough.

It's a difficult exercise in politics, don't you think?

To do this properly, every renter would need regular check flights with an instructor. Somebody has to pay for that, whereas under the "usual" system if a renter flies regularly enough no instructor is ever needed for him. But he might still be a totally crazy pilot, bending the plane every time he lands.

[Fuji Abound]

If you do check flights with a spectrum of pilots you will know two things matter.

Total hours
Time since last flight.

Low hour pilots should not leave too large a gap between flights. I suspect with less than 200 hours, 30 days is about right, 500 hours, 60 days, more than 500 hours, 90 days. That assumes the hours were accumulated relatively recently, and excludes instrument conditions.

I can guarantee a pilot with 500 hours, familiar with type, and in reasonable conditions, after a two month gap, will do almost as well as a pilot far more current. I use to believe, as many do, that much more recent currency is required - I dont now.

Of course there will always be the exceptional (or as my children would say, special) pilot, whatever guidelines are proposed.

[shortstripper]

Fugi Abound ...?

What about age? As I stated earlier, when I was younger, I found getting "back in the saddle" so to speak, far easier. Also, those who learn at a younger age, tend (again, I think?) to be far more "natural", so currency, whilst important, may not be quite as important as for those who learn later in life. It certainly seems to be this way with drivers ... agree/disagree?

SS

[Fuji Abound]

SS

Age, experience (instrument rated, use to complex types, flown a variety of types etc), aptitude, maturity, they are all factors.

A great deal can be made of whether you fly a circuit as precisely when you are current, as after a 60 day break. It is no different from flying competition aeros - the more current you are the better your performance will be. If you are flying circuits every week, after a 60 day break your circuits will not be quite as pretty. Who cares? However, that is not the criteria that should be applied to currency.

Are you likely to be able to safely compete the task you have set? Are you likely to be able to handle any emergency that might occur at least very nearly as well as if you were a bit more current? Give yourself a PFL - it is a pretty good test of how much rust has accumulated.

However, I believe the two key factors are those a gave earlier that most effect the average pilots ability to take a break from flying.

[_Coolhand_]

And now let me tell you something about a good friend of mine that perhaps can add something to this interesting discussion...
He obtained his PPL 14 years ago and flew 3 or 4 hours after that. Then he stop flying. Four years ago, he decided to renew his PPL after a gap of 10 years without flying at all (yes, 10 years). To add some difficulty, he decided to use a completely different aircraft for his renewal.
On his first flight, he managed comms fluently on a busy airport, he took off, made some manouvers, some stalls and all this stuff, and managed to land the aircraft almost on it's own, with very little intervention from the instructor. Only two flight hours later he was passing the verification flight and regaining his PPL.
He, with 43/44 FH total time, was able, after 10 years of no flying at all, to complete a flight on a new aircraft type with very little help, and was flying solo 4 flight hours later.
Perhaps he is especially gifted for flying, and surely he wouldn't have been able to cope with an in-flight emergency in his 'first' or 'second' flight, but.... what do you think about this?
(I don't know if this can be relevant at all, but to be honest I have to say that he kept 'flying' with MS Flight Simulator during these 10 years)

[Tight Slot]

I know for sure that if I've not flown for 3 or more weeks I have to pay lots more attention on whats going on. The scan goes, the natural feel of things is not there. Going more than a few weeks can make a very diff feel to being "at ease" up there...

[Pilot DAR]

In an earlier life, when I was a 200 hour renter at one of Canada's busiest flying clubs, I flew their C172RG on a regular enough basis to be regarded as "current" on it. One day, it had unscheduled unavailability, so I said "no problem, I'll take a 172 instead". To my great dislike, the dispatcher (who was not a pilot at all) informed both me, and my passenger to be, that "I was not able to fly the 172". Wrong choice of wording, to say the least! I complained to the CFI without delay.

Their normal policy was an hour a month, or check ride.

He took me to his office, and jotted my name on a on a card, which he then presented to me. He told me that upon presenting this very little publicized card to the dispatcher, I would never be challenged again as to my currency. I was responsible to him to maintain my proficiency in the way I though most appropriate, and not to take the twin (no ME rating yet).

This completely resolved my upset, and the CFI never had a reason to be concerned about my currency. I took my responsibility to him seriously!

I'm sure that this policy of earned privilege must be available at other clubs. Perhaps a few more will consider it.

Cheers, Pilot DAR

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Wholigan
SKOTAS, LAPIFC


Join Date: May 1999
Location: Sunny (or Rainy) Somerset, England
Posts: 698

I have people with between 5000 and 25000 hours who are flying light single engined aircraft for me and if they go outside 31 days on my aircraft, they have to have a currency check, even if they are current on their airline aircraft or their RAF aircraft!

Read into that what you will.

Do you charge them for this check ride? :)

Do you make any exceptions?

[NNB]

:ooh:Whirls and others are on the right track re currency.
in my world if you have to think before you react, you are not current.
Whether you fly a C150 or a twin turbine or something in between, know your aircraft backwards and get into the sky as often as possible.
Even if you can't get into the sky, get into the aircraft and go over your checks and procedures - even make aeroplane noises (it worked for me) this way when the skies n' cash permit, your brain is in the right space to enjoy.
so endth the lesson according to me
blue skies and safe flying to all
NNB:ok:

[Fuji Abound]

"in my world if you have to think before you react, you are not current."

Sounds very dramatic!

I wonder exactly what events or situations you have in mind then - in your world?

[Chuck Ellsworth]

There can be no hard and fast rule for getting recurrent check rides.

A lot depends on the background, ability and the mindset of the person involved.

We are in the warbird rebuilding and flying business, quite often after getting a machine airworthy we must test fly it, generally there is no one avaliable who is current on type.

So what should we do, leave it sit and just admire it?

Then there is recurrent training for our clients, they park the airplane in the fall and come spring we are called to do the required recurrency check rides....now we once again have the chicken and the egg problem.

I see one poster here requires a re check every 31 days, so what are we supposed to do with this airplane that no one has flown for six months?

Chuck E.

[matelot]

... in my world if you have to think before you react, you are not current ...

And not thinking lucidly before you react i.e. panic, can put you 6' under.