Ferrying a single across the Atlantic

[turniphead]

Does anybody have any recommendations (or dire adverse warnings) about Ferry Pilots or specialist companies willing and able to fit ferry tank and fly a Cessna 172 to the UK.

[egld0624]

Hi TH,

Check your pm's.

Regards,

EG:ok:

[fernytickles]

Was doing a search for a company I spoke with last year, and came across this website - http://www.ufly.com/acf/ferrying.html Some useful info there.

I think the last comment the writer makes is very important - "If you ever run into a ferry job where the owner seems to care more about his machines than about your life, there is only one solution. Run -- fast! "

[Pilot DAR]

Hi Turniphead

I used to position singles in the United States for trans Atlantic ferry, and and went across in a few twins with that pilot. Thus I have a little experience over the ocean. With this little experience, and a lot of experience flying 172's, my advice tends toward the dire side. Hire a container, put it on a ship.

It can be done, but just. The 172 does not have the capacity to allow comfortable range and choice in alternates. Suitable landing areas across the Atlantic are too few and far between for lonely 172's. It also takes a lot of emergency equipment and knowledge to satisfy Transport Canada (who regulate these flights). Look here: (602.39) http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/Regserv/Affairs/cars/PART6/602.htm#602_39

You will find pilots willing to undertake this flight, but that is not an assurance that it is an ideal way to get the plane across the pond.

There is guidance material available for ferry tank installations if the pilot is insistant on this kind of flight.

Think it over carefully,

Cheers, Pilot DAR

[QDMQDMQDM]

www.aceflight.co.uk

[sierracharlie]

Wings of Eagles International Aircraft Delivery (http://www.weflyplanes.com/).
One of their pilots, Stuart Mills, is very experienced. See some of his work here (http://web.mac.com/stuartrmills/iweb/site/Welcome.html).

[twizzle]

Fritz Schoder / FERRY FLIGHTS INTERNATIONAL FL-USA +(561)242-0574 + (401)777-1477

http://www.ferryflights.org

Fritz flew our aircraft over last year via Denmark. did the last leg with him to UK. Very experienced ferry pilot.

[turniphead]

Twizzle

That is very good info. I think Fritz will be the man and i might join him in Goose Bay or Reykjavik.
Presume you did the Danish VAT EU Import route.???

I think more SEP a/c get here by ferry rather than by container.
I go with the view that Engine Failure is an unavoidabe risk but acceptable with survival aids.
All other disasters are usually avoidable such as fuel and icing and nav failures with good planning and refusal to be rushed. Sit it out till favourable winds and weather prevail!

TH

[Flying Lawyer]

Obviously there are risks but, if you're prepared to accept those, it's an experience of a lifetime.

i might join him in Goose Bay or Reykjavik
Joining him in Reykjavik would mean missing out on the best part of the flight.
Join him at Goose and route via Greenland.
I guarantee the memories of flying low level over the ice-cap and close-up views of stunningly beautiful icebergs floating around the coast will stay with you for the rest of your life.

Go for it! :ok:
It's a rare opportunity and you'll regret it if you don't.

FL


(Edit)
I'd recommend joining him before Goose so that you see more of Canada from the air.
If free time is a factor, you could always fly home schedule from Reykjavik. There's nothing but water between Iceland and Scotland, and you'll have seen lots of that. :)

[Flying Lawyer]

Forgot to say ...

Re Reykjavik

Icelandic food is an acquired taste (I assume ;) ), but I can recommend a restaurant called Jonathan Livingstone Seagull. Good food and good atmosphere.

I went there years ago, but I'm told it's still there

[Cowboy-76]

I guarantee the memories of flying low level over the ice-cap and close-up views of stunningly beautiful icebergs floating around the coast will stay with you for the rest of your life.

Go for it! :ok:
It's a rare opportunity and you'll regret it if you don't.

FL




I agree aeroplanes should be flown, not taken apart and put in boxes.
Plus it will be the experience of a lifetime.

Go for it:ok:

As a regular North Atlantic Pilot I have seen some amazing views like the ones below that I have taken on past trips.

http://www.pilotcast.com/phpBB2/files/ferry_pictures_567.jpg

The top two pictures are Iceland & the Approcah to Reykjavik. The next two are at Kulusuk in Eastern Greenland. Third row is over the Ice Cap in Greenland. The last is the capital of Greenland Nuuk where you can just see the runway above and to the right of the town.


CB-76
If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined.

[smarthawke]

Totally agree with the others - a real trip of the life time. Acted as engineer/co-pilot taking a Navajo from UK to Barbados via Wick, Reykjavik (all the ugly people seem to have been exported out of Iceland!), Narsasuaq (Greenland), Goose Bay (Canada), Bangor (Maine), Richmond (Virginia), Freeport (Grand Bahamas), Turks & Caicos Is, Antigua, Barbados followed by a week of R&R in the owners hotel...

We flew across in May (41 hrs over 8 days) and had excellent weather once leaving a gloomy Scotland and Iceland.

Very brave people in the singles crossing the water but what a great trip!

[turniphead]

What wonderful photos.
I am much stimulated by the prospects and will go for it as soon as negotiations over purchase, sorting out a N reg trustees company, working out the Danish VAT system and waiting for better weather.Should therefore be about March time which ought to be OK.
All viewpoiints much appreciated and many thanks to all.
T.Head

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Landfall Greenland, direct Kevflivik-Narsarasuq.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ChuckEllsworth/pic3.jpg


Arrival Narsarasuq.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e353/ChuckEllsworth/21Cferryflight118.jpg

Great trip in good weather............

[BRL]

That arrival picture is stunning mate, lovely scenery. :)

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Yeh, not bad considering I took it with a 2.1 megapixel camera.

[Flying Lawyer]

smarthawke Very brave people in the singles crossing the water but what a great trip! Our engine only stopped once (embarrassingly, our fault) and didn't start again immediately (again, our fault). Too busy to be scared at the time, but we did heave a sigh of relief when it fired up again - and then had time to think about what might have been. :eek:
I share your admiration for the ferry pilots who regularly cross in singles. We were chatting to a pilot shortly after we arrived at Goose - still thrilled (and a little pleased with ourselves) at having "done it!" He was en route home to the UK in a C172.
Is this your first time? (Trying to sound casual)
No, I've done it a few times.
Really. How many?
Oh, let me think. 1, 2, 3, 4 ............... 8 times ....
(That was enough to bring us floating gently down to earth, but he brought us down completely when he continued)
"..... this year".
He'd been ferrying for 15 years - put our effort into perspective.

turniphead
While you're thinking and planning, I recommend trying to get hold of a book called 'Ocean Flying' by Louise Scacci, an exceptionally experienced ferry pilot. It's out of print but you'll probably find one on the internet. It's pre-GPS (as was out flight) but still worth reading IMHO. She crossed the Atlantic so many times they named a road in Gander after her.

cjboy
I can only assume traditional Icelandic food is an acquired taste - I'm told you have to be born there to acquire it. ;)
The fish was good at the JLS.

Chuck
You've probably done it more times than you can remember, but I vividly remember flying up the fjord to Narsarsuaq for the first (and for me only)time. It was reassuring when we could (just) make out the famous sunken freighter - confirming we'd chosen the right fjord. Then, flying around a corner and seeing the airfield - with a large iceberg on approach. Wonderful!


Great pics by Cowboy & Chuck. :ok:
Mine are pre-digital. I'll have to dig them out and have digital versions made one day.

(Edit)
In the meantime, here's a picture of the aircraft.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v146/FlyingLawyer/SF260-1.jpg



This thread makes me want to do it again. :)

FL

[rotornut]

And don't forget Lindbergh who did it with no navigational aids, strictly DR, over open water most of the way!
I highly recommend his book "The Spirit of St. Louis".

[Heliport]

There's an interesting thread about flying in to Narsarsuaq (Bluey West One) and the famous sunken freighter 'landmark': Here (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=101357)

H.





BTW, if you know anyone who would like to learn to fly or to obtain further qualifications as a pilot, and needs financial assistance, point them here >>> LINK (http://www.gapan.org/careers/scholarships/schols07.htm)

[flyingfemme]

And don't forget Lindbergh who did it with no navigational aids, strictly DR, over open water most of the way!

As did all ferry pilots until the 90s when the Trimble Transpak arrived!

[stickandrudderman]

Nice looking aeroplane, what is it?

[turniphead]

hi Flying Lawyer,
Thanks for al the encouragement.
I know that plane!!
gh@os??

[Newforest]

Nice looking aeroplane, what is it?
A beautiful plane, Siai-Marchetti F.260, previously F-BUVY, so why would it have been crossing the Atlantic?:confused:

[Flying Lawyer]

so why would it have been crossing the Atlantic? Because it was there. :)
And because the owner wanted the engine blue-printed by a specialist engine-builder in Arkansas. As Cowboy-76 says, "aeroplanes should be flown, not taken apart and put in boxes" and an excuse to fly the Atlantic was irresistable. He asked me to do the flight with him and I jumped at the offer.

Well spotted. It's a Siai Marchetti SF260 - and it flies as well as it looks. 160 kts cruise at our 8000 feet (about 10,500 feet over the ice-cap) and +6g/-3g envelope for aerobatics - although not with ferry-tanks installed! It's certified 4 seats, but the max load on the rear seat/baggage area makes it more of a 2+2 'coupe'.
There aren't many SF260s in the UK (2-3 maybe) and that led to an interesting exchange with a BA 747 mid-Atlantic. We didn't have HF so relayed reporting points/obtained destination weather via passing airliners. With limited range, there's a crucial 'point of no return' between Iceland and Greenland. ie If the wx isn't good enough to land at Narsarsuaq (a sea-level airfield deep into a fjord and surrounded by 9-10,000 feet mountains) you have to turn back to Iceland while you still have enough fuel to get back. Imagine our surprise when, while one of the 747 pilots was speaking to Narsarsuaq for us, the other said "G-MACH, you're a very long way from Thruxton for a little aeroplane." The a/c was based at Thruxton at the time, and he flew GA from there. Small world!

turniphead
"gh @ os??"
Yes. But if you know GH, please resist the temptation to tell him about this thread. He's forgotten I've still got his copy of 'Ocean Flying'. ;)


Tudor

[stickandrudderman]

I want to do that!:ok:

[turniphead]

Flying lawyer

I'd you a deal.
You let me read Ocean Flying by Scacci
and I will return it to its rightful owner afterwards with saying how I got it!

Will be good reading before epic flight...although I have done it before both ways ...but in a twin which does not really count as an adventure. (how's that for being controversial?? Stand by for flak)

[flyingfemme]

although I have done it before both ways ...but in a twin which does not really count as an adventure. (how's that for being controversial?? Stand by for flak)

Sort of depends on the twin.....or the single......

New Caravan vs old TwinCom? :E

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Risk wise weather is more of a problem than mechanical failure when flying the North Atlantic.

An airplane that is running perfectly will not allow you to land somewhere you can't see the ground.

[spittingimage]

Only just seen this one - hence late response.

For those perhaps contemplating transatlantic themselves and a trip up the fjord into Narsarsuaq at low level - an unforgettable experience in good weather (and even more so in bad :eek: ) - please be aware that a set of cables has recently been strung across Skovfjord near the village of Narsaq. They run from about sea-level on the north side to some 1000 ft or so on the south side and are damn near invisible. They are marked by strobes at each end but are otherwise unannounced, either in the Greenland AIP or NOTAMs as far as I am aware.

Caveat aviator.

[PorcoRosso]

To those who think crossing the pond in a twin is "not an adventure" I suggest they check the single engine climb perfs of a Seneca or Seminole X-atlantic equipped (survival stuff, ferry tank, HF ... ) Then , reconsider this comment.

I did 3 ferry flights, 1 in a seneca, and the 2 others in Kingair . I reckon this type of twin is far more reliable than the PA34 . But wx was a major concern (winds, vis & ceiling in Iceland ... ) ..and it had a smell of adventure if you ask me .

[turniphead]

Porco Rosso,

Your comments about weather and winds and ceilings in Iceland are very interesting. I think we are all agreed that by doing the crossing in less than very favourable conditions is inviting trouble and creating an adventure where one need not have existed with a more cautious attitude to actually when to fly.
The moral is quite clear. It is a pretty safe bet in a single that is well prepared for the trip and if the the pilot is really prepared to wait and wait and wait for the right weather.

[PorcoRosso]

Bonjour Turniphead

Couldn't agree more ! ;)

By the way , do you know what is a hero ?

A Hero is a man who can overcome a situation where no normal person would put himself in ;)

No problem with ferryflying single or light twins, but as you mentionned earlier, preparation & patience are the keys ... no need to hurry .

Take care

[spittingimage]

Sorry to resurrect this thread again, but the risks are real; very real ...

Fritz Schoder, well-known and experienced ferry pilot mentioned in a couple of the posts above was ferrying a Cirrus SR20 from Goose Bay, Labrador, to Narsarsuaq, Greenland, on 02 February 2007 when the aircraft suffered engine failure. He ditched in the Greenland Sea but tragically did not survive.

Great bloke : RIP Fritz.

[PCentR]

February 17, 2007: Two hours after leaving Natal, Brazil for Dakar, Senegal today, Earthrounder Frank Hettlich had an engine failure in his Seneca3. Although he survived ditching in the ocean some 40 miles from Fernando de Noronha Island, and made it into his life-raft, he has tragically perished as a result of injuries. Frank and his wife Dorise had recently been travelling in Brazil, Argentina and Chile on holiday but he was undertaking the Atlantic crossing back to Africa alone, headed eventually to Capetown. Our heartfelt condolences go to Dorise and daughters Malaika, Bianca, Claudia.

[Herbie-TZ]

Frank, you were a great guy, a motivator and a skilled pilot.

RIP

your Dutch/Tanzanian friend