Flying in Egypt?

[IO540]

It looks like avgas is available only at Luxor, another airport about 100nm N of Luxor, and one more near Cairo (which curiously lists 100LL only).

Does anyone have any recent experience of Egypt?

There is very little GA there; just a few business jets flying around, and I am told (having just been there) there are some local pleasure flights around Luxor which is why Luxor has avgas.

The choice of alternates is rather poor, even with a TB20 with a 1200nm zero-fuel range. I might have to fill up at Iraklion at Crete.

I am looking at going down there later this year, via the Yugoslavia route; then back via Libya and Malaga.

Quite a lot of people have done flights down there with some complicated logistics, having avgas shipped ahead in drums.

[stickandrudderman]

I am looking at going down there later this year, via the Yugoslavia route;

Hmmmm, I think you'll need to replace the TB20 with a Tardis to achieve that one!;)

[A and C]

I would use LGSA rather than LGIR, as the civil side is much more compact and Avgas is avalable without having to wait for a "bowser slot" because of all the airline movments, the down side is that you have to get clearence from the Greek MoD via the Greek CAA to use the place.

Egypt is much improved over the last few years and you can now almost understand most of the controlers but the VHF coverage below FL150 is a bit suspect so a relay via airliners might be required.

What the airports will make of a TB20 I don't know, I suspect that they will try to rip you off, get a letter agreeing the airport charges before you use the place.

[IO540]

I suspect that they will try to rip you off

Nothing new there then :) Normal practice in that part of the world. I would do the usual "due diligence" before going to Egypt: faxing every airport.

Last time I looked at LGSA (Hania/Chania) which was in 2005 it was 10 days PPR, which was a bit of a problem as back then I was VFR only and the PPR was for a specific date only.

For refuelling only one could also use LGST (Sitia) which is a very sleepy airport, above a very nice town where I have stayed. It had avgas in drums. It has no Customs but AFAIK that should be OK if one remains airside only.

[flyingfemme]

Last time I asked (about 2 months ago) the avgas at Luxor was around $14 per usg - but you don't have to buy it by the barrell!
Luxor is not (AIUI) mandatory handling but doing it yourself is tedious and time-consuming; taking bits of paper here, there and everywhere.
It is generally around $500 landing/handling etc, etc which gets it all done quite rapidly. They also get good rates at the hotels and will take you there and back.
Our usual handlers at Luxor are v efficient, use email and can arrange things at other airports if needed - you don't always get an answer to faxes south of the Med; even when you can get through.:ugh:

If you are down that way, Sharm is quite a nice stop.

[IO540]

FF

Given that petrol in Egypt is 20 UK pence per litre, this is interesting :mad:

Your price works out to £1.90 per litre which is not outrageous - if you have no other options...

I did ask about handling and the officer said a handling agent is mandatory. Obviously this needs checking.

Could you please PM/email me the handling agent contact details? Thank you.

[mzoheir]

I suspect that they will try to rip you off

Nothing new there then :) Normal practice in that part of the world. I would do the usual "due diligence" before going to Egypt: faxing every airport.

Last time I looked at LGSA (Hania/Chania) which was in 2005 it was 10 days PPR, which was a bit of a problem as back then I was VFR only and the PPR was for a specific date only.

For refuelling only one could also use LGST (Sitia) which is a very sleepy airport, above a very nice town where I have stayed. It had avgas in drums. It has no Customs but AFAIK that should be OK if one remains airside only.

Dear Sir,

I must say that I am very offended by the post above, being an Egyptian or let me say "from that part of the world" I ask you.... what do you know about Egypt ? and I mean on a professional level such as aviation, have u ever been there ? where u "ripped off" at an airport before? and please spare me those stories about a friend who had an eperience at a bazzar when trying to buy souvenirs etc.. etc.. cause that's the way it it in "your part of the world as well" if you had an experience with a similar case to that of the original poster, then share it and let him know what to avoid, if you have never been there, then I seriously doubt that your opinion should be of any weight!!

[PCentR]

Dear Sir,
I must say that I am very offended by the post above, being an Egyptian or let me say "from that part of the world" I ask you.... what do you know about Egypt ? and I mean on a professional level such as aviation, have u ever been there ? where u "ripped off" at an airport before? and please spare me those stories about a friend who had an eperience at a bazzar when trying to buy souvenirs etc.. etc.. cause that's the way it it in "your part of the world as well" if you had an experience with a similar case to that of the original poster, then share it and let him know what to avoid, if you have never been there, then I seriously doubt that your opinion should be of any weight!!
I visited HELX in '04. They would not guarantee fuel 2 days prior, other than to say it was available at the present time. I had a handler that met me on arrival, one of the fuel fellows asked quietly if I would like to help make sure everything came out well, hand out, another $20 away, despite $500 to the handler and a promise that there would be no other fees or bribes required.
At customs, I was sold a visa. I showed them the visa I had obtained pre-arrival, but they said I needed the second one for some obscure reason, no refund.
At the Winter Palace, I was offered a better room, but the cost was very difficult to discover (don't worry....). When pressed, it was going to be about 3X my initial room.
I found Luxor to be pretty decent over all but I felt constantly wary of offerings and prices. My weather briefing was given in the ATC lounge, the controller intermittently talking to aircraft and discussing religion with me.
Perhaps I should have known- as I flew over the N Africa coast, my cell phone got a text message- Welcome to Egypt, would you care for a guide?

[atb1943]

IO540

That's a very nice project you have in mind, and with a bit of careful planning (plus a few good contacts) you'll have the trip of a lifetime. I took part in an organized rally to Egypt and Jordan back in 2001 and am still buying books on the area even now.

We were over a dozen aircraft ranging from a Cessna 170 (!) carrying our wonderful (French) engineer, to our organizer's Twin Comanche, a Cessna push-pull and several Bonanzas. There may even have been a TB20 along, I'll have to dig up the paperwork.

We came together in Cannes, moved on to Corfu, from where we were due to refuel in Iraklion, but they backed out at the last minute quoting all sorts of reasons (except perhaps the real one). Most of the singles went via Mykonos who agreed to take them after several phone calls by Kerkira ATC. We were able to get to Cairo direct, where we landed at the brand-new October airfield, to be welcomed by the Min of Tourism and a Slovak TV team! The Hotel was in Giza in sight of a new high-level road which blocked the view to the Pyramids, but we would see enough of them eventually. In fact, the briefing that evening, ably assisted by a member of the local flying club, was all about next day's trip from October via the Pyramids (one circuit only please) to Cairo city, where we flew up and down the Nile at low level (at least, below the tallest buildings, the TV team getting footage of us from above! I recall at least three circuits of the P's, which we would also visit later by bus, plus Son et Lumiere in the evening. Sightseeing, museum, mosque, and many other items were also on the itinerary.

Departure to Luxor was suddenly intervalled such that several aircraft overheated, in spite of our having been joined by two Katanas from Alex and October who were going to be with us the rest of the Egyptian part and who tried to reason with ATC. But they were only acting on instructions from Cairo main. Cairo was very busy and my crew were intent on flying down the Nile at low-level, which we did, and very nice it was too. ATC had obviously given up! After Luxor came Abu Simbel, then Aswan, followed by a 3 hour long scudding of the Nasser Sea up across to the Sinai, where we were denied a landing at Sharm because Arrafat had beaten us to it, so we had to land at El Tur, meaning a bus to the hotel in Sharm, and no possibility of a flight to St. Catherine to visit the monastery. We did it by bus, an awful journey, but well worth being there.

Amman was next on the list, then we took Aqaba. The flight home via Rhodes went via Hurghada to refuel and clear customs outbound.

What I don't know is whether fuel had to be organized but I can find out for you. Current contacts with the civil aviation school in Cairo may also prove useful.

I'll be happy to do a bit of digging for you so let's email shall we.

cheers
atb

[IO540]

Thank you ATB; I know you have my details. It sounds like there was a lot more avgas about than Airport -> Properties in Flitestar indicates, or they had some shipped ahead.

It will be worth knowing little tips which might cause problems, e.g. when I went to Mykonos for fuel in 2005 the bowser would accept cash only. This is pretty obviously "irregular"; I don't see the Easyjet pilot doing that. That kind of thing in turn means a great deal of cash must be carried.

[172driver]

IO, this (http://www.ferryflights.org) guy should be able to help you, check out his site.

[IO540]

Luxor seems doable from Crete in about a 5hr flight, so enough reserve to fly all the way back to Cairo if necessary, and has avgas. Near Cairo there is just one place that lists avgas: "6th October".

However, Luxor ground temp can reach +50C around the summer months and that is seriously hot.

Alexandria etc is doable from Crete (LGSA) without a refuel (TB20)...

Time to look at turboprops :) Unfortunately they are all pressurised, and cost far too much.

[S-Works]

<Dear Sir,

I must say that I am very offended by the post above, being an Egyptian or let me say "from that part of the world" I ask you.... what do you know about Egypt ? and I mean on a professional level such as aviation, have u ever been there ? where u "ripped off" at an airport before? and please spare me those stories about a friend who had an eperience at a bazzar when trying to buy souvenirs etc.. etc.. cause that's the way it it in "your part of the world as well" if you had an experience with a similar case to that of the original poster, then share it and let him know what to avoid, if you have never been there, then I seriously doubt that your opinion should be of any weight!!>

Don't get a hump on! I lived and worked in Egypt for 3 years, in Sharm, Hurgharda and Safarga as well as time at Dahab. Not all of your countrymen are as honest as you obviously are. Notwithstanding this IO may have been a little harsh expecting to get ripped off.

IO I still have a number of contacts that may be able to help.

[IO540]

I will email you bose-x, thank you.

Apologies for being one of those suggesting Egyptians are a bit "sharp". I've been to Egypt (not in a light aircraft though) and while I think Egyptians tend to be very straight, proud, and honest to their own countrymen, there is a tendency among many to regard tourists as absolutely fair game for any con trick and if you are gullible you will get dozens every day just by walking down the street. This is common to much of the 3rd world and one has to watch it. It's bad enough in some places in Greece where you have to pay cash in hand for avgas - at an international airport and this is an employee of Olympic Handling.

I'd expect international airports are generally OK because they have to be secure, but it's next to impossible to find out whether they have avgas for example. I always fax, but often the reply bears no relation to reality. And a thick wad of US $ is the best thing of all.