Student feeling like a Muppett

[Nil Flaps]

Went to do some solo circuits the other day. FI came along for a ride before sending me off by myself. He wanted me to get 5 or 6 landings in. My first solo circuit was uneventful, and turning final I made my radio call with intentions to touch & go. My landing was okay and after applying full power, the engine spluttered for a moment. :eek: As soon as I heard it, I decided to pull the power, braked, turned myself round and exited via the taxiway. A bag of nerves, I taxied back to the school and shut the engine down. Or at least I tried to!

I've only ever done this once before, (about lesson 4) but after setting the throttle to maintain 1000RPM, I pulled the mixture full lean to stop the engine. Obviously due to nerves, I didn't wait for the engine to cut out completely before pulling the throttle back to idle, so got into an embarrassing situation where the engine was close to cutting out then restarting again as I kept messing with the throttle!

Luckily someone came and helped me and stopped the engine. He was great about it all and discussed with me what had happened & why it happened. I do know what was happening after the event but at the time, being so rattled after an aborted touch & go, I just couldn't work it out.

Then like a fool I was in a rush to go and see my FI (who was surprised to see me back so soon!) to discuss my failed touch & go and my subsequent shutdown debacle, only for him to point out I'd left the master switch on; the beacons were still going. :uhoh: I felt like a proper prat.

He was very patient & forgiving (as ever), and said I'd done the right thing on my touch & go. He explained to me the engine can gum up a little if it is idle for a while on finals but seemed happy I'd decided not to press on if I thought the engine sounded rough.

He said he was glad for me to go back out again and although nervous, I did want to get back on that horse. But by this time the wind had picked up and he said it was probably better I come back another day, so I've booked another go in a few days time where I bloody well want to get an hour of solo circuits in.

Somehow I feel like I've let both him & myself down... to this point I'd done my first solo and subsequent solo for just 0.5, then this happens and I didn't get any further than one frigging landing!

I'm sometimes a little timid and nervous before my flights but once we're moving I'm fairly confident with what I'm doing. However, this time I'd made three embarrassing errors.

I get narked when I make mistakes but some of these were absolute howlers, so I left pretty annoyed with myself and I'm still feeling pretty ashamed with my last performance. :O

[J.A.F.O.]

If something is new or not practised often then it is very easy to get it wrong. Pilots with thousands of hours sometimes forget the master switch.

Simple mistakes can be embarassing but embarassment is not fatal.

You did the right thing, give yourself a break, you're doing fine. Look forward to 2007.

[possel]

Everyone has been there and done that sort of thing. Don't imagine that my 300 hrs, or someone else's 10,000, makes any of us immune! Most of us are just lucky enough to get away without TOO much embarrassment or actually causing damage or injury.

My best was when I was practising forced landings and ..... no, perhaps I'm not ready to talk about that yet (and it was five years ago)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Reminds me of Pink Aviator turning back from a solo XC because she didn't like the weather, and was worried that people might think she was "chicken" or something ...

seemed happy I'd decided not to press on if I thought the engine sounded rough


Yes. You made a command decision, that's what you're being trained for. It is never wrong to choose to stay on the ground rather than take off.

A decision to stay on the ground might be unnecessary, but it's never wrong.

[Farmer 1]

I felt like a proper prat.Welcome to the club, Nil. We have all done that, and will all continue to do so. It's called experience. A good story with which to amuse your mates at the bar, and one day to pass on to those with less experience than yourself.

[camlobe]

Hey, Nil Flaps, glad you feel confident enough to share your thoughts with us other mere mortals. We make clangers too. And will continue to. Unfortunately, it is part of being human.

Your instructor obviously knows your potential capabilities. Otherwise, he (she?) would have insisted on coming with you. And he is wise enough to advise you to have a few days off before you continue.

Nothing I read in your post indicates to me that you are a fool. Going to discuss the events with your instructor was anything but foolish.

Oh, and don't dwell on feeling embarrassed. Put it in your little book of lessons entitled 'I learn't about flying today from that'.

Don't beat yourself up, and look forward to your next session of aviating.

camlobe

[rotorcraig]

said I'd done the right thing on my touch & goWell done, a good decision made.

I left pretty annoyed with myself and I'm still feeling pretty ashamed with my last performance.Get used to it - you will feel that way again, both during and after your training!

Some days everything goes great and you leave the airfield with a buzz that lasts all day. Other times you look back and think "I could have done better if...".

So long as everything stays safe and you learn from your mistakes, then that's all part of the learning process.

Happy flying in 2007!

RC

[wombat13]

NF, that was a good command decision. Imagine how you would have felt if you continued into the circuit only to find your engine was stuffed.
As for the "flapping" having made the decision, you will handle it better next time. As soon as something "non-standard" occurs and circumstances allow, take an extra moment and if possible, reach for the check-list.
The Wombat

PS, what field are you flying from?

[Whirlybird]

Nil Flaps,
Let's calm down, and look at what actually happened...
the engine spluttered for a moment. As soon as I heard it, I decided to pull the power, braked, turned myself round and exited via the taxiway.
A sensible decision. Better to sort out these things on the ground. The last thing you want is to find out it was serious when you had engine failure at 300 ft, just after take-off.
A bag of nerves, I taxied back to the school and shut the engine down. Or at least I tried to! I've only ever done this once before, (about lesson 4) but after setting the throttle to maintain 1000RPM, I pulled the mixture full lean to stop the engine. Obviously due to nerves, I didn't wait for the engine to cut out completely before pulling the throttle back to idle
So, you were understandably stressed out, and forgot how to do the shutdown. It happens. Recently, when hovering with a student, we saw smoke coming out of the instrument panel. He landed, and mixed up the order of shutdown. I took control...and I got it wrong too! I've only done it several hundred times. No harm done, but it's worth knowing and recognising what stress can do. That's why we have checklists. :ok:
being so rattled after an aborted touch & go, I just couldn't work it out.
Yep, been there. Classic stress reaction. Absolutely normal. Everyone in the universe reacts like that. Well, maybe some super-people don't, but I never met them, outside of movies.
I'd left the master switch on; the beacons were still going.
Done that one too. Another classic stress reaction.
He was very patient & forgiving (as ever), and said I'd done the right thing on my touch & go. He explained to me the engine can gum up a little if it is idle for a while on finals but seemed happy I'd decided not to press on if I thought the engine sounded rough.
Nothing to forgive, since as he said, you made the right decision. I'd have said the same thing - and meant it - to any of my students.
Somehow I feel like I've let both him & myself down...
Ridiculous. You haven't let anyone down, and you instructor should be proud of your airmanship...and of himself for teaching you so well.
I get narked when I make mistakes but some of these were absolute howlers, so I left pretty annoyed with myself and I'm still feeling pretty ashamed with my last performance.
NOW you're being a prat! Stop over-reacting and feeling sorry for yourself. With the knowledge you had, you made the right decision. You also found out what happens when you get stressed. Learn from it, so that next time something scares you - and it will, since flying can be scary at times - you'll know to use a checklist for the simplest things, and double-check everything you do.

Now, don't start beating yourself up for over-reacting either. ;) I've done that too. There's something about flying that makes perfectly normal people go completely over the top about little things that they'd take in their stride in any other area of their life, especially in the early days. I don't understand why, but I've done it, most people here have done it, and yours is the umpteenth thread over the years started by student or low hours pilots who make Mount Everest out of a barely visible molehill.

Enjoy your next solo flight....and the next several hundred of them. :ok:

[Eff Oh]

Nil
We've all done it. It's how you build experience. If you do it right EVERY time, how will you ever learn. Every day we make mistakes, the trick is to keep them small, and learn from them. Get back up there as soon as you can! :ok:

[HR200]

As a student, i think you did excellent, ofcoarse you panic when you don't have much experience and something goes wrong.

I remember the sudden shock and panic I felt, when, on my first flight on my own as a qualified PPL, I thought I broke Manchesters Class A TMA, but after a quick descent, and a check on my map, i just missed it. But it definately gets you going.

Under the circumstances, you did very well!!

:ok:

[stickandrudderman]

Congratulations on beginning to understand what it means to be "in command". It does not mean that you will get everything right every time, but it does mean that you're learning what it is to make important decisions for yourself, which in this case you have done admirably.
Never mind all the rubbish about shutting down and feeling a prat, you'd feel an even bigger prat getting turned away from the Pearly Gates because you ignored the warning and continued with the go-around.:D

The only thing I've read in your post that gives me slight concern is the instructor's apparent willingness to send you off again in the same aeroplane without having first investigated the cause of the "cough".

"It sometimes does that on finals" strikes me as being rather belated and perhaps a little too casual.

[RatherBeFlying]

Don't know what type you were flying or what the temperature and dewpoint were when the engine complained, but carburetor ice does come to mind as the most likely suspect.

I have heard comment that "you don't really need it today", but I always use full carb heat before pulling power and turning base, unless in a glider or behind a fuel injected engine;)

Carb ice is much more inconvenient when you need a bit more power to make it to the threshold:uhoh:

So maybe that was the problem when you tried to take off again.

In any case, I agree with everybody else that you made the right decision to abort and take it back to the ramp.

There will be other times when things go a bit wrong and you get flustered as we all have (at least those of us honest with ourselves).

First fly the airplane and once things are sorted out use the checklist. These are the times the checklist is most needed:\

[Nil Flaps]

Ratherbe... just to put you in the picture more - the type I was flying was a c152, temp was about 32 celsius. Engine didn't complain at all on finals, but I had it idle for some time on approach. I'd had carb heat hot immediately prior to making my base turn and stayed that way until established on finals @ 60KTS with a nose down attitude pointing at the numbers. I used power very sparingly on approach but it was once I used full power after touchdown that I got the quick splutter. Maybe you're right about the ice, I shall discuss with my FI before my next lesson.

stickandrudderman... in fairness to the FI, the chap who helped me shut down (CPL), turned it back on again afterwards to see how the engine sounded, and he was happy there was no worrying sounds. I mentioned this to the FI afterwards which was probably why he was happy to send me up without further inspection. Of course, I wouldn't know if that's wrong or right but I do get the impression he's anything but maverick. Of course I take your advice on board (as well as Ratherbe's) and will ask him about it next time. I will never ignore advice from someone more experienced than myself because I know how inexperienced I am.

Thank you everyone so far all for your advice and the words of encouragement. It does help! Whirlybird, I sure can be a prat... call me anal or a worry-wart, I just hate getting things wrong - but frequently do! Maybe that's no different from any other stude. :8

BTW... I probably didn't word a particular sentence too well in my original post.

I wrote [FI] "...explained to me the engine can gum up a little if it is idle for a while on finals". This should have read that he said something to the effect of ... if the engine has been idle on approach, once you are back on the ground and reapplying power after being at idle for some time, the engine can gum up, hence the momentary splutter.

I see why some have read it as if I had some problems with the engine on finals (my bad!!!) but it was only AFTER I was back on the ground and applying full power that I heard something odd.

Any more advice is appreciated. Thanks :ok: And point taken, I WILL be more reliant on my checklist after something like that happens again.

[Pilot DAR]

My addition to all of the great advice you've got from the others..

When flying, and a decision is needed, take the time available to make the best decision you can, with the information you have. Once you have made your decision, determine what you need to do to carry it out. (bear in mind, that this whole process might take only a split second for many circumstances.

Once you've made your decision, and begun to carry it out, don't change your mind! Even if it was not the best choice, once you've begun to carry it out, you'll mess it up more by changing tactics. You'd rather do a good job of the best thing that you could think of at the time, than a horrible job of the next thing you though of after that, which might not have been any better anyway!

A second in control of a plane can seem like an hour. Give it time...

The only pilots who have not embarrassed themselves in a plane, are about to...

In a decade or so, with 5000 hours in your log, you won't even remember this ('cause probably there were a few more embarrasing events along the way!)

One day, you'll be giving this advice to some other new pilot, that's how I got it 30 years ago.

By the way, the sputtering problem was most likely your too rapid movement of the throttle. Even with an accellerator pump on the carb, (which all 152's would have, though it might not be in top condition), you can still make nearly all carburetted engines stumble if you jam the throttle. Some much older planes (like Piper Cubs etc.) will just quit with such throttle management, because they do not have an accellerator pump. That can assure a landing moments after a go around attempt - been there, done that! In a 152, the stumble is very likley to fix itself if you leave everything alone for a few seconds, but I sure understand that they can seem like very long seconds rolling down the runway on a touch and go! Try slower movements of the throttle, and the engine will be more happy. You'll look like a pro too!

Cheers, Pilot DAR

[Nil Flaps]

DAR, check your PM's. :ok:

[Flyin'Dutch']

Full marks for you mate for stopping when you were not happy to proceed.

Takes a bigger person to stop than to carry on regardless.

:ok:

However no marks for your instructor not to teach you to stop the engine by this stage in your flying training and nil points for him not to check the aeroplane out before letting you go again.

:=

[Whirlybird]

the type I was flying was a c152, temp was about 32 celsius. Engine didn't complain at all on finals, but I had it idle for some time on approach. I'd had carb heat hot immediately prior to making my base turn and stayed that way until established on finals @ 60KTS with a nose down attitude pointing at the numbers

Hmmm..... I hesitate to say too much, or this thread will turn into yet another discussion of carb icing. And if you ask ten pilots about use of carb heat, you'll probably get eleven opinions at least. However, basically you can get carb ice in almost any weather conditions in the UK, and almost any power setting. But you are MOST likely to get it at low power settings, ie on base and final. So you apply carb heat at that time. Now, some pilots and instructors, in some aircraft, reckon you should then leave it on till you land, while some recommend putting it in on short final. But the ONLY reason for putting it to cold again is so that you have full power if needed for a go-around. And you could still get carb ice on final, so you want to leave putting it off till pretty late...maybe the last 200 ft or so.

I'm not questioning the way you've been taught. It's just that there's no substitute for knowledge in the flying game. Read and understand a bit about carb icing...and everything else. I know, too much to do, isn't there. :ugh:

For the record, the second or third time I flew a C150, with way more flying hours than you've got, I had to wait in a queue before taxying. At some point when doing this, the engine died. I taxied back, went into the flying school, and loudly and vociferously complained that there was something wrong with their aircraft. An instructor told me it was carb ice. It can't be, said knowall little me, it's too cold and dry, and I hadn't been waiting that long, and it's never happened before. So he took me out and showed me the differences between the engines on a C150 and C152, and why the C150 was so likely to get carb ice at any time. And yes, I felt like a prat. But I learned something that day.

Sorry to have called you a prat. ;) I was simply trying to make the point - maybe too strongly - that you should stop worrying, and instead look at what a good learning experience you'd had...far more so than if you'd just flown a few circuits.

[stillin1]

Nil Flaps
A lot of good replies here.
My only addition would be to get the check-list out and go through it methodically after an incident like this.
With the stress that an incident places on you it is all too easy to miss / mix / do the incorrect actions. IMHO, after an "incident" and if it is safe and sensible to remain in the ac - Get clear of the runway (if safe / sensible). Tell ATC that you will be holding for a couple of mins, take a couple of deep breaths and get the cards out to check that the ac is set up correctly for the app & landing and to ensure that the post landing and taxy back checks are correct (and the shut down checks once "back on the chocks").
It has saved many a co@k-up for me after the brain has gone wibble post an "incident" (& I have thousands of hours in the fast pointy metal as well a puddle-jumpers).
Overall mon brave, sounds like you made all the correct decisions:ok:

[rustle]

I hesitate to say too much, or this thread will turn into yet another discussion of carb icing. And if you ask ten pilots about use of carb heat, you'll probably get eleven opinions at least. However, basically you can get carb ice in almost any weather conditions in the UK, and almost any power setting.

Arguably correct, but the thread starter flies in Australia (WA IIRC), not the UK.

With +32C and humid it is possible but unlikely to have been carb ice, and much more likely to be what Pilot DAR suggested, or perhaps even plug(s) fouling as your FI suggested.

Have you been taught to lean the mixture at all when the ambient temps and humidity are high?

[cessna l plate]

No need to feel like a muppet, not at all.

You have shown a classic example of the one thing that you can't be taught, "airmanship". Otherwise known in civvy street as common sense.

You didn't like it and made a quick decision on a safety basis.

The only thing to say is Well Done You

[davidatter708]

Well done good descision.
If you look at it the other way and your engine quit at 300ft and you did a bad forced landing and ended up in the hospital you'd still feel a prat but for different reasons wishing you had stopped turned round and gone in.
Well Done again
David

[BEagle]

I agree that your aborted touch and go was a sound airmanship action and precisely the right thing to do.

As others have said, the interruption of your mental plan would have been very likely to lead to your omission regrading the battery master. Always have a look at brakes/mags/master when getting out!

Incidentally, as for the cause, there could have been a problem, perhaps, with the primer? An FI at my club once landed early and snagged an engine for rough running - the cause was obvious when I checked....the primer wasn't fully locked!

Well done - and thanks for the help/reassurance that your tale will have provided to others!:ok:

[RatherBeFlying]

Lots of good advice here.

According to this carb ice chart, the likelihood is pretty faint at 32C, but not totally impossible. Don't forget that the temp in the air was likely cooler.

http://www.faa.gov/ats/afss/newyork/ENROUTE.htm

You may have been taught to take off the carburetor heat on short final so that you have one less thing to forget if you have to do a go-around. I have several memories of being whacked upside the head whenever I did not push it in before advancing the throttle.:ouch:

As for your throttle movement, unless you have taken to advancing it more rapidly solo than with your instructor, the accelerator pump should not be an issue.

[Nil Flaps]

I won't thank you all personally as it would take too long but seriously, I do appreciate every last comment you have all made. Although I admittedly still have a long, long way to go, your contributions have made me a little wiser and best of all, I don't feel like such a muppet now!!!

You've all taught me (besides the obvious) that it's good to get your mistakes out in the open, not just because the forthcoming advice makes you feel more at ease with the decisions that you made at the time, but because it makes you more informed and more prepared if there is a next time. :D

I know my FI is there to do this (and always does, I hasten to add) but it's nice to get feedback from non-biased sources!

If people still have points to make, please keep them coming. It helps me no end and no doubt will assist other studes who may have experienced similar situations to my own.

I have another slot booked this weekend for some more solo time (if weather and FI permits), - hopefully it won't be so eventful this time! Watch this space. :}

RatherBe, that's a surprising link you just posted. Cheers.

[Crash one]

There was nothing in your decision making that makes you a prat
You heard something unusual & acted on it correctly,
I am in the early stage of my training & it is easy to forget lots of things, but to remember & act on the important things is all that is necessary.
I would commend your instructor for getting you into that state of mind rather than the "it's probably ok" mode. Our overshoot / EFAT area up here is a flooded quarry, if I had a warning while still on the runway I would certainly feel a prat if I found myself scrambling up them rocks, if I were able to!
Well done Captain.

[Shunter]

Fairly soon after passing my PPL (still under 50 hours TT at that point), I had just taken off from Leeds to fly to Blackpool with a friend. Climbing out towards Keighley the engine coughed 3 or 4 times, then started to run smoothly again. Not a tough decision really; runway 5 miles behind me, or Pennine hills 5 miles in front...

I called a Pan, turned round and held my 1500ft until a mile from the threshold to avoid the vortex from the 737 that was still vacating the runway. The engine ran smoothly all the way back... ATC going 10 to the dozen, fire engines charging about....

The point is that it's quite alright and normal to feel stupid when you're firmly on the ground, perhaps even melodramatic and maybe even a timewaster. I would have felt a hell of a lot more stupid (and probably quite a lot more dead) if I'd carried on over some pretty nasty terrain and things had gone pear shaped.

As it happened my cautious anality was vinidicated; although the aircraft had already flown 3 hours that day, and my fuel drain had revealed nothing untoward, there was water in the fuel system from it being sat outside in the rain at another aerodrome for the previous 3 days after a mag problem.

If in doubt, land and get out.

[phillpot]

Nil Flaps, good thread lots of good replies just to repeat what every one else had said good decision better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air rather than the other way round.
As for the fluffed shutdown drill why did it happen ?welcome to the key to safe flying, my pet subject human performance and limitations or HPL.

I wont try and explain the whole subject but basically you have something called the stress/performance curve because of your limited experience you would have already been right at the top of the curve the engine splutter forced you over into brain meltdown teritory which is why you failed to shut down the engine properly,take it as a good lesson.
Engine failiures dont kill people they kill themselves because they panic,stall and hit the ground, read accident reports " the aircraft engine was heard to stop shortly after take off then the nose pitched up then dropped the aircraft the desended into the ground" basically the engine quit and so did the poor souls brain shortly after, instead of shoving the nose down and getting some glide distance they paniced (easy for me to say sitting on the ground I know).

But HPL truly is the key to safe flying use it in your nav planning think of your workload not just the route use it when joining the circuit to a new airfield eg 1 stage of flap 2100 rpm 80kts slow everything down give yourself time and most importantly learn to spot the early signs of brain shutdown and address the issue by reducing workload.

You have enviromental stress eg flying itself and induced stress which is what we bring on ourselves for example trying to be to perfect or having unreasonable goals.

I could waffle on all day but listen dont worry about he other day we all have our stories to tell, learn from it HPL factors the importance of check lists etc and dont forget the important fact that your reactive decsion eg aborting the touch and go was spot on you cant teach people that split second decsion making they can either do it or they cant.

happy and safe flying to you all.:O

[Whirlybird]

rustle,
the thread starter flies in Australia (WA IIRC), not the UK. With +32C and humid it is possible but unlikely to have been carb ice

Thanks for that. I didn't notice that he was in Oz!!! Who's the muppet now? I like to think I'm more aware than that when I'm flying.

However, I'm pretty sure that at 32C and with high humidity you definitely can get carb icing. We had it that hot here last summer, and I certainly had some signs of it in the R22. Though of course, other reasons are possible too.

[kala87]

Well done Cap'n, you did nothing wrong! All part of the learning process. Wait till you start flying retractable gear a/c and the instructor (hopefully) reminds you that you forgot the "3 greens" check on final and you are about to belly-flop on to the tarmac. Then you really do feel like a muppet!

From our first flying lesson, we are taught that perfection (or as close as we can get to it) is the only acceptable standard. No wonder that we tend to castigate ourselves over every memory lapse or mistake. But I think you have learned something very important: when you are stressed, it's much, much easier to make mistakes and errors of judgement. The aviation accident reports bear this out time and time again. So you now know that when you're feeling stressed about an incident during a flight (or by a non-flying event prior to flying), it's a red flag to be extra-careful and triple-check everything (such as the gear really is down and locked). Yes, I've been there....luckily the instructor was more vigilant than I was.

[Nil Flaps]

Just went for a fly. Perfect conditions; still as. Managed 0.8hr solo this time after a circuit check. Loved every minute of it.

Confidence back up again, even with a few minor but corrected mistakes. Circuits could have been tighter, landings could've been a little lighter, (more hold-off needed) but I'm still here to tell the tale.

Glad to report I had no hiccups with the engine this time, applied power more gently, left carb-heat on until later on finals, even managed to shut down without looking like the prize pr1ck, everything like you guys told me. On yer :ok: