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View Full Version : Brief impression of a Diamond DA42


IO540
18th Dec 2006, 07:44
I flew a G1000-equipped Diamond DA42 at the w/e. My views, not in any order of importance:

Pluses:

Looks like something out of outer space; the bird pulling potential must come close to an Italian twin turbine heli and that will sell a lot of planes in today's WW2-scrapyard GA scene.

Much lower noise level than a TB20, which itself is the same (as far as I can tell) as every piston single I have ever been in. At 60% power or less, and at any kind of holding power setting, one could fly it without headsets and just using a handheld mike. However, in probable typical cruise (80%)
the noise level is high enough to require headsets, although still clearly lower than a TB.

Very smooth. Almost no vibration in the cockpit.

Easy to fly, quite similar to a TB20. No more slippery IMO.

G1000 is a very nice user interface, with the best sunlight visibility I have ever seen on any LCD. The data presentation is amazingly good, with the nav screen showing airport runways with runway numbers.

In a total electronical failure case, can be flown perfectly well on the backup instruments (speedo, horizon, altimeter) and a handheld GPS. Not sure about the AI battery endurance though - 30 mins?

Very good all around visibility.

Great range, probably similar to a TB20 (say 1200nm to zero fuel) if flying the diesels at 70% power which is about 140kt IAS. Southern UK to Corfu is feasible (obviously unwise). In fact the speed, at likely owner-pilot operating power settings, is close to a TB20. I am sure the range is in fact a lot better at say FL200; probably 1500nm.

The separate KAP150 (?) autopilot works as one would expect in NAV mode, intercepting the GPS track in an intelligent manner, whereas pressing NAV on the KLN94/KFC225 setup I have makes a complete hash of any intercept (and makes radar controllers wonder if you are being
hijacked) unless the HSI deviation is > 3 divs to start with.

Build quality looks very good, especially in the cockpit interior and
the panel. Much better than it used to be a few years ago when I was
looking at the DA40 and the Cirrus SR20. The instrument panel build and layout is a marvel of design and just as it should be.

Has a large door air vent on both doors - very nice; the TB20GT doesn't have these.

Minuses:

A big aeroplane - the wingspan is something to watch if used to a TB or another typical 10m-span plane like a PA28.

When taxiing, much more affected by crosswind than a TB; needs a fair
bit of braking (in addition to serious pedal pressure) to keep straight, even in a 10kt x/w.

G1000 buttons are small and are likely to be a challenge to press in turbulence. I find the much bigger GTX330 buttons which I have hard enough to home in on.

G1000 doesn't have a very usable GPS actual-track indication; the best you get is a short little line with an arrow, just long enough to align with the flight planned route (the magenta line). This is a massively stupid omission on Garmin's part, IMHO. The track line should be the full length of the display, so that one can track all the way to any waypoint displayed on the screen. The KMD550 I have is a marvel in comparison.

Sea level climb rate is between 50% and 70% of a TB20, which suprised
me. The DA40 is known to be poor but the DA42 has two of the same
engines (260HP total). Obviously higher up, say 10,000ft, the turbo will win over a TB20.

Not, I suspect, all that easy to get into unless one is flexible. The TB isn't that easy either for many elderly people but the DA42 seems to have more potential for losing balance when stepping on the wing. Also, clumsy people will immediately stick their boots into the lower portion of the instrument panel (the circuit breaker panel), which is quite close to the front edge of the seat. The seats do not move; you adjust the pedals instead.

Fuel levels (this was an extended tank version) are not physically verifiable unless tanks are full. Twin owners will smile at this of course but I think this is unforgivable unless you are the sole pilot and thus know exactly what went on before.

No sun visors. This is a key omission and seriously affects forward visibility when flying "south". Some kind of movable/adjustable suction-pad device will be essential.

Operations in the rain will be a problem; the inside will get soaked if getting in/out during rain.

I guess that it will get exceptionally hot if parked in hot places. Lightweight reflective cockpit cover essential.

Not quite as stable as a TB20, and I think will get chucked around more in turbulence. Probably due to lower wing loading.

To retrieve something from the back seat, without knocking the stick, requires good flexibility, but this is partly a consequence of the very good rear legroom. To climb between front (RHS hopefully :) ) and the back would require even better flexibility.

Verdict:

Hard to say based on a short exposure, of course. Like the TB20, due to internal space this is a great plane for 1 or 2 people going places, and occassional 3/4 usage. I would still keep the TB20 though at this point in time; it goes more accurately where you point it, I prefer a yoke (use a larger kneeboard with various bits of paper attached to it), and the fuel price saving is likely to vanish.

If comparing TKS for TKS, the two have almost identical mission capability for both VFR and IFR (European airways).

My estimate is 10hrs of ground school and 10-20hrs of flying to get used to the G1000, over conventional HSI/RMI type instruments. This is based on my view that a pilot should FULLY understand the kit. Even setting the transponder code is totally opaque unless demonstrated.

There are clouds on the horizon on the avtur front. In the UK, it is likely to go up in price to avgas levels in 2007, wiping out most of the operating cost advantage of a diesel (for people that don't hold an AOC). However, even then, avtur will be much preferred for serious touring around and outside Europe, because the further south you get the harder it is to find airports with both customs and avgas, or any avgas at all.

englishal
18th Dec 2006, 08:39
I spent the end of November flying one around the SW usa. We did a 1200nm cross country to Colorado from Long Beach and got pretty used to the aeroplane (similar distance as Bournemouth to Prague). For three adults with overnight bags and flight equipment it was a very comfortable aeroplane.

In my experience we were getting a TAS of 155 Kts at about 80% power, so although not massively fast for a twin it was only 10 kts or so slower than say a Seneca II.

There are several other big plus factors:

1) FADEC - You can slam the throttles open and closed at will without fear of shock cooling
2) Economy! - Our trip to Colorado cost us 50 USG of JetA - cost was £115, which would be a similar cost in the UK at the moment if not slightly cheaper.
3) High altitude performance due to turbos is nice to have at high density altitude airfields. It hardly made a difference taking off at 7000' Alt.
4) The second engine.....We failed one with three of us onboard and full fuel at 8500', and we could easily have climbed up to the SE ceiling at quite a respectable rate of climb.

All in all a very nice aeroplane to fly. The next generation of G1000 will have the AP integrated, which will mean setting barometric pressure in just two places....

A few vids here if anyone is interested. (sorry about the overshoot on the turn to final :O )
Landing Sedona (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSRQp8lpgAI)
Barringer Meteor Crater in Arizona (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_M2X99D_RLY)
Night Time ILS into 30 at Long Beach (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAOf2bk6hHM)

BlueRobin
18th Dec 2006, 09:21
Thanks for the feedback, I am in the process of deciding whether a CPL/IR on the DA40/42 is for me

That wasn't an overshoot, you were extending the turn to lose height ;)

Review of the DA42 by Richard Collins in Flying
http://www.papa-bravo.com/showdoc.php?org_id=608&doc_id=265

scooter boy
18th Dec 2006, 09:31
I agree with most of IO's assessment above.

A very good friend of mine has one and I have been lucky enough to enjoy flying it with him. It is a good aircraft but would not fit my bill for many of the reasons mentioned above plus:

1, Icing: is the DA-42 TKS deicing certified for FIKI? This was looking prohibitively expensive as a retrofit to my friend's aircraft and would be a huge turnoff for me considering some of the missions I fly.

2, cruise speed. Diamond were saying that it would cruise in excess of 200kts during its development but in reality 150kts is more accurate.


On the positive side it has plenty of power on takeoff and is more directionally stable than any single I have ever flown, and of course the second engine - if you believe it helps!

SB

soay
18th Dec 2006, 10:50
Fuel levels (this was an extended tank version) are not physically verifiable unless tanks are full. Twin owners will smile at this of course but I think this is unforgivable unless you are the sole pilot and thus know exactly what went on before.
The DA42 has the same device for measuring the quantity of fuel in the tanks as the DA40. See page 7-40 of the AFM for details.
is the DA-42 TKS deicing certified for FIKI?
Yes.

IO540
18th Dec 2006, 11:31
I will pass on the fuel measuring comments, thank you. Note this version has extended tanks, not the standard tanks.

It may be certified for flight into icing on a G-reg but it's worth checking this is the case on N-reg. The FAA is a lot more strict than the CAA on icing cert. I don't know the cert rules for G and don't know anybody else who does (and has written down a concise summary) but I believe there is no such thing as "known ice" outside the FAA context; the certification is for flight into specified icing. The likelihood of any enforcement is another matter; in Europe you would have to do something pretty stupid.

Diamond were originally talking about 207kt cruise and +700fpm SE climb but this clearly has not happened.

englishal
18th Dec 2006, 11:55
I believe the extended tanks have a probe in the tank which will only tell you when they are empty and also to switch off the fuel transfer pumps. It is the first time I have seen the fuel gauges rise during flight ;)

It is certified in N reg land, the one we flew had the TKS. Adds a few knots to the speed believe it or not - something to do with the shape of the LE of the wing. It amazes me that those holes don't get blocked though....

scooter boy
18th Dec 2006, 12:31
Englishal, I am surprised that you have found that a TKS equipped DA-42 goes faster that a non-TKS aircraft.

My Mooney has a factory installed TKS system and cruises about 8-10 kts slower than a comparable non-TKS aircraft. More to do with the rubber boots/slinger ring installation at the root of the propeller blades interfering with the aerofoil than any aerodynamic effect of the laser drilled titanium panels on the leading edge (according to the factory).

Having said that though I was very happy to have a tankfull (6.3 usg) of TKS fluid with me yesterday when I flew back from Milan Linate to Gloucester over a cold front solidly covering the entire lower half of France. I was above the clag at FL180 and -22 C and in fact never needed to switch the TKS on - but it was there just in case. Those significant Wx charts were spot on with the cloud forecast - within 500ft.:ok:

SB

englishal
18th Dec 2006, 14:06
I believe it is because the TS without TKS has some funny leading edge or blanking strip on the wing?? When TKS is fitted this is removed and the profile of the wing is more efficient or something.........Thats what I was told anyway ;)

One thing which was quite startling about the twin star engines is that they are mounted on rubber engine mounts. If you grab the spinner on the ground you can wobble the whole prop from side to side. I thought it'd setup odd vibrations in flight, but it doesn't and makes for interesting viewing during turbulence :ooh: Incidentally the TS handles turbulence very well. We were flying around the San Bernadino mountains when the Santa Ana winds kicked up. They were up to 70 kts through the moutain passes (so we didn't fly that day, there were many Urgent PIREPS for severe turbulence ;) ) but even coming through them in 20-30kt winds, it handled beautifully.

I'd love one in Europe, it is a real go-places machine, well designed, safe and nice to fly. Accomodates 3-4 adults pretty comfortably even on 4 hour, 600nm trips (Bournemouth to Nice for example), and you still have half your fuel remaining when you arrive.....best I get that lottery ticket.....

sternone
18th Dec 2006, 14:40
Minuses:
.

Maybe the very very very long delivery time ? since it's such a huge success, and this plane sells 'himself' ...

Delivery slots costs 10.000.- euro and delivery is for 2009 ?

IO540
18th Dec 2006, 15:54
You can probably purchase delivery positions - this is usually the case in this business. A lot of people who bought a position run out of money before the delivery and want to sell out.

Kit d'Rection KG
18th Dec 2006, 16:01
Graunch, grind, cough, splutter, bang, brrm, brrmmmm, brrrmmmmm, purrrrrrrrrrr. Grind, bang, couch, splutter, brrrm, brrrm, purrrrrrrrrr (but louder now)....























Oh, not THAT sort of impression....

englishal
18th Dec 2006, 17:28
who bought a position run out of money before the delivery and want to sell out.
OR they ordered the Twin Star to give them a good position on the D-Jet ;)