PPL Air Law, help please!

[speedbird268]

i am going to ask some questions that i had in an exam that i have just done.

Q1. in order to fly internationally, who do you need a licence issued by.

I said ICAO

Q2. searching of an aircraft in another state.

a)may search if they have notified you before hand
b)have right to only search contraband
c)have absolute right without delaying aircraft
d)have no right

Q3.To go into another state what permission do you need.
is it only scheduled services that need prior permission

Q4. How do states manage their airspace, do each state have full soverign of their airspace or regional agreement

Q5. Regarding customs in another state are spare parts and oil subject to duty.
or oil but not spares exempt

or all temporarily exempt

or exempt if next flight is out of state

Q6. Is QNH given as

Flight level
Height
Altitude
Elev

NOW on this one i would say that well a qnh can be given below a FL and also you can set QNH to 1013 for a FL and it cant be elev so i went for height because if it was ALT then that would say that you cant use a 1013 qnh for a FL

Q7.Medical certifate is under the provision of JARFCL 1,2,3 or 4

Q8. info about transferring a ppl to another JAA state

Q9. To maintain recency you have to do 3 t/offs and 3 landings
what is the time period

Q10. To revalidate do you complete a 2 hour flight or something more

Q11. In SAR who is responsible for alerting atsu units
ATCU
Operator of aircraft
Rescue
Comm

BIGGEST QUESTION

Do i just swap halfway through and do the FAA PPL instead becausemy books are 1998 and i have no idea about JARFCL info.

Will it work out cheaper to do it FAA then convert after ATPL

Thanks for reading

[BlueRobin]

So you have just done a JAR PPL exam on Air Law using an out-of-date book? :eek:

[speedbird268]

So you have just done a JAR PPL exam on Air Law using an out-of-date book? :eek:
YES:eek: but i thought mos of it is the same. But would you say the FAA is best would they have less JARFCL CODE 123224333 jgdsjo type of questions.

[Whirlygig]

Air Law at PPL level is not hard but it is dull. Depending on your future aspirations and where you intend to use your licence, I would suggest you get an up to date Air Law book and re-revise. Also, if you are currently flying, much of the air law becomes second nature as you are using it i.e. QNH for altitude, QFE for height. 3 take-offs and landings etc in last 90 days - this sort of thing will become second nature if it's a JAA licence you require.

Cheers

Whirls

[speedbird268]

Im doing a 3 week course in usa and that Q. qnh is altitude but you can use a qnh of 1013 for FL, that is where i then cosidered the answer of height:ugh: I am really tired of the us school and i really want to go home and do the exams there where i can study longer and better. But i have spent so much money coming over here and i did have an extra $600 until they robbed it off me on the additional additional expenses that they didnt put on the additional expense list. i dunno i just dont like beong at the mercy of a school that knows you have to stay there and bite their bullet and pay them.

So would you know the other answers for when i do it again or would it be best to get the up to date air law

[Whirlygig]

You do not use a QNH for Flight Levels; you use an altimeter setting of 1013 - I think you are getting the two terms confused.

An Air Traffic Controller will tell you to use a QNH of (for example) 1005 meaning the altimeter will read altitude about sea level. If the Controller says QFE 1005, your altimeter will read height above ground.

I do know the other answers but, as you have paraphrased the questions and not necessarily given all the correct multi-choice answers, I would be reluctant. As you can guess, the exact wording is very important. In addition, it is unlikely that you will get the same questions when you resit.

You could order Trevor Thom's Air Law book online and could be with you in a few days if that helps!

Cheers

Whirls

[BlueRobin]

would it be best to get the up to date air law

First of all please stop trying to do it all on the cheap, you will end up costing yourself more money!

Yes get the latest book! You need to pass all the theory exams. Beg, steal (well perhaps not) or borrow. There's bound to be either a source out there selling British books or a student may have haplessly left a copy behind.

Some schools, though not a legal requirement per se (let's not go there people), prefer you to have your medical and Air Law passed before sending you solo. Have you gone solo yet?

[speedbird268]

First of all please stop trying to do it all on the cheap, you will end up costing yourself more money!

Yes get the latest book! You need to pass all the theory exams. Beg, steal (well perhaps not) or borrow. There's bound to be either a source out there selling British books or a student may have haplessly left a copy behind.

Some schools, though not a legal requirement per se (let's not go there people), prefer you to have your medical and Air Law passed before sending you solo. Have you gone solo yet?
No, thats why i rushed the exam today but i would have got them right if it wasnt for the JAA bits that are not in my copy.

[BigAl's]

Further to Whirls' comment, absolutely agree, an up-to-date Trev. Thom / AFE book is a must

I would also recomend getting a PPL confuser (lists lots of practice questions, along with explanations of the answers). This is invaluable as it gives you a chance to practice exam stylee questions but also you can find some gems that the Trevor Thom book one cunningly neglected to mention!:rolleyes:

The confuser is updated anually (I think), and covers all the PPL subjects. :ok:. Have fun!

BigAl

[speedbird268]

Thanks again, i have about 3 days to study because im doing the whole usa jaa thing

[wbryce]

From someone with experience...

I bought a Air Law book from Ebay before I started flying, none the wiser about all the changes...the book was around 10 years old, I studied it, sat the exam and failed...got a new air law book, passed! wasted alot of time! quite funny thinking back about it all! wern't laughing at the time tho! :}

[IO540]

I don't think some of the questions posted are from any PPL air law as I have ever seen it, e.g.

Q2. searching of an aircraft in another state.
a)may search if they have notified you before hand
b)have right to only search contraband
c)have absolute right without delaying aircraft
d)have no right

[maxdrypower]

Try article 16 of the chicago convention Each state has the right to search aircraft from other states on landing or departure and to inspect documents

[englishal]

See, this is typicall bull JAR questions. As a PPL who really gives a toss if spare parts / oil subject to duty? Why does it even concern us?

Get to the ATPL's and you'll learn the British Standard number of JAR approved sunglasses......:ugh: Seems like they go and bung in questions for the sake if it!

What is wrong with:

"What is the meaning of Rule 5 with regards to low flying"

or

"When two planes are on final for the same runway, who has right of way"

etc......

Who cares about excise duty and oil :hmm:

[rustle]

Who cares about excise duty and oil :hmm:

International inspection rights and excise issues are probably important if a PPL wishes to exercise their right to fly internationally.

Living on an island where going "international" takes less than an hour (from the SE) it is probably prudent to know this stuff.

I can understand why the FAA PPL population couldn't give a **** though ;)

[cessna l plate]

Got to agree, some of the questions are silly in the extreme. One question I got was about admin changes to the AIP, what clolur are they printed on?

What the :mad: hell has that got to do with being in the air? It might be something that you need to be aware of, but to be fair that sort of thing is on the ground where there are people to ask. I am not about to start consulting the different coloured pages of that document with another aircraft approaching me head on at 300 yards am I?

The best solution would be a 2 part exam, part "book in" and part "book out". So what direction do 2 approaching aircraft turn, or what colour is the port wing light are good examples of book out. You need to know these things in the air. What colour is the admin update should be book in, prove that you can find the information if you need it.

Personally I am studying for the nav exam. From looking at the confuser I would describe it as an exam in how to use a whizz wheel. That piece of equipment was around in the last war, we can put a man on the moon, but cannot use technology to navigate! The mind boggles

[IO540]

International inspection rights and excise issues are probably important if a PPL wishes to exercise their right to fly internationally

OK, let's see what PPL air law has to say on this subject:

(1) G-reg landing in France
(2) N-reg landing in France
(3) F-reg landing in France
(4) D-reg landing in France

Tell me which of the four is permitted under the EU VAT directive (or whatever it is called) to have its VAT status queried (meaning: to be turned over by a bunch of Frog policemen and have to cancel one's onward flight, while passengers are mightily miffed off having to hang around some dirty airport lounge, and I am not even getting onto the subject of certificates of free circulation).

Then tell me whether the answer is more, or less, relevant to real life than e.g.

Q5. Regarding customs in another state are spare parts and oil subject to duty.
or oil but not spares exempt
or all temporarily exempt
or exempt if next flight is out of state

given that probably 95% of UK PPL holders are renters and will never get near an aircraft "spare part" in their entire flying career (i.e. a year or two). 99.9% of them will never need to know the import duty status; that is handled by the import chain and it just appears in the price you pay.

In fact the last example above is a load of b0110cks (for an exam paper) anyway because one can potentially get an End User Certificate for aircraft parts.

No need at all to have a cheap snipe at the FAA pilots. They have to be much more clued up than G-reg ones, and most of them are.

[rustle]

Your first example, it is obviously going to be the N reg which is queried.

In your second example I can name several people who have uploaded oil whilst travelling internationally, and some that have had repairs done internationally (who would therefore be affected by this).

Pot-kettle-black regarding FAA/JAA -- all I am doing is redressing the balance a bit. Most of the noise comes the other way, as can be seen in your last sentence...


SoCal App -- Good point. I forgot the 0.001% of American PPLs that venture south of the border ;)

[IO540]

who have uploaded oil whilst travelling internationally, and some that have had repairs done internationally

How many people are going to be concerned with duty on oil?

People do fuel duty drawback in the UK. Are there similar provisions for other countries, when exporting fuel? So, let's say I fly from the UK to Germany, then fill up and fly on from Germany to France. I can claim duty drawback in the UK, and how do I claim duty drawback in Germany? There is no use teaching general rules without backing it up with sufficient detail to be useful.

If you have done repairs internationally, in what circumstances would the pilot be concerned with the duty on parts fitted?

All knowledge is potentially useful; the clear point here is that there is other stuff which would be of much more benefit to a private pilot instead.

[rjakw]

Thanks again, i have about 3 days to study because im doing the whole usa jaa thing

Have a look at http://www.airquiz.com/ . It might cost you a few quid (£3 -> £20) but it's instant, up-to-date and obviously British (JAA) oriented.

[llanfairpg]

An Air Traffic Controller will tell you to use a QNH of (for example) 1005 meaning the altimeter will read altitude about sea level. If the Controller says QFE 1005, your altimeter will read height above ground.

Whirls

Did you pass your aviation law exam then?

[llanfairpg]

who have uploaded oil whilst travelling internationally, and some that have had repairs done internationally

How many people are going to be concerned with duty on oil?


If you have done repairs internationally, in what circumstances would the pilot be concerned with the duty on parts fitted?

All knowledge is potentially useful; the clear point here is that there is other stuff which would be of much more benefit to a private pilot instead.

An aviation law examination is a test of your knowledge of the rules regulations and procedures, not on what is going to useful on your next cross country flight. The role of the instructor is to concentrate on what is of most benefit to the pilot.

Examinations are supposed to be comprehensive tests of the ability to assimilate information as well as content knowledge.

Understanding the aim helps with the result, as in all instruction

[IO540]

Examinations are supposed to be comprehensive tests of the ability to assimilate information...

Well, it's good to know I have been missing the point of learning all along.

Why not get the student to learn chess? Might be a good test for the ability to make enroute decisions?

Or learn Mongolian? Might be handy for doing the radio.

So far, nobody has answered any of my questions though.

Your first example, it is obviously going to be the N reg which is queried

I think that both F- and N-reg can be queried, in France. In Germany, D- and N-reg could be queried. Etc.

Outside the EU, I guess that any reg, local or foreign, can be queried under basic ICAO provisions but they don't have VAT then :) Which just shows how out of date (at best) and irrelevant (at worst) these exam questions are.

[HR200]

Q6. Is QNH given as

Flight level
Height
Altitude
Elev

NOW on this one i would say that well a qnh can be given below a FL and also you can set QNH to 1013 for a FL and it cant be elev so i went for height because if it was ALT then that would say that you cant use a 1013 qnh for a FL

This one has me slightly worried being a pilot myself.

QNH gives the barometric pressure at MSL at a given point. Now, you don't set 1013QNH to get FL. You set 1013mb on the altimeter sub-scale (it is not 1013QNH, but just 1013mb as it is used as a datum for FL given by ISA.

It is not height as that is QFE, which is the barometric pressure at ground level, thus giving you the 'height' above the ground.

QNH is the barometric pressure above sea level.

So, to recap, if you want to fly on flight levels (so you need to be above the transition altitude, in the uk this is typically 3000') you need to set 1013mb on the altimeter sub-scale, which then you are on flight level. Sorry if this seems complicated, im not the best at explaining things.

But no offence, looks like to me you need to get the Trevor Thom Air Law book and do some proper revision.

[HR200]

Q9. To maintain recency you have to do 3 t/offs and 3 landings
what is the time period


No, to maintain recency or to remain current as it is known, you need to do 12 hours flying per year minumum (I may have that slightly wrong).

However, if you want to fly with PAX (passengers), then you must have done at least 3 t/o and landing within 90 days.

[HR200]

Q1. in order to fly internationally, who do you need a licence issued by.

I said ICAO


To fly internationally, i think you need to have a licence that is to the standard of the state you are over flying, and you have to fly an aircraft that is registered in the same state as your licence, for example;

If you have a PPL issued in the UK, then you must fly a G-reg aircraft etc.

[englishal]

International inspection rights and excise issues are probably important if a PPL wishes to exercise their right to fly internationally.

Living on an island where going "international" takes less than an hour (from the SE) it is probably prudent to know this stuff.

I can understand why the FAA PPL population couldn't give a **** though
But is it important at PPL level? I get in my plane, fly to france, have lunch, maybe top up with fuel, check the oil, maybe buy a litre if I need it, add a bit, take off and come home. I have already filed my FP's and any other documents required by the UK / France.

So I don't care about the duty on oil. As far as I'm concerned if a litre costs me 10 Euro, it costs me 10 Euro.

When someone is training for a PPL, why do they need to know this rubbis for an air law exam. It is not air law at all.....

PS I don't have an FAA PPL, I do have a JAR PPL though ;)

[englishal]

To fly internationally, i think you need to have a licence that is to the standard of the state you are over flying, and you have to fly an aircraft that is registered in the same state as your licence, for example;

If you have a PPL issued in the UK, then you must fly a G-reg aircraft etc.
Not strictly true......ICAO licences are ok. Go and ask the DGAC in France if they will accept an ICAO (FAA/ South Aftican etc...) licence in a G reg plane.....

[IO540]

Go and ask the DGAC in France if they will accept an ICAO (FAA/ South Aftican etc...) licence in a G reg plane.....

Actually the DGAC has no say in this. The CAA decides what, if any, privileges an ICAO license has in a G-reg :)

And the CAA has decided it's every bit as good as a UK issued PPL.

I don't think the DGAC is as generous for its own (F-reg) planes.

But this is all practical stuff. One would never expect a PPL to learn anything practical.

[rustle]

One would never expect a PPL to learn anything practical.

Takeoff, S&L, landing, steep turns, stalling, navigation, some radio nav, 180 degree turns, forced landings, weather decisions, flight planning, landing, weight & balance, fuel calculations, radio use, taxiing, Captaincy.

Nah.

Nothing practical there at all. :rolleyes:

[jai6638]

Not to be pedantic but clearly from the start of this thread, some students are confused by this. QFE - height above the airfield in question - not simply height above ground. If you are 5 miles out over higher terrain..... Fortunately we don't use QFE in the US. :)

If such an ambiguity exists, then why do people use QFE?

[BEagle]

Because for countries without aerodromes at high elevations, it is perceived as being safer to know your height above the runway than your height above sea level (or rather, altitude).

I am astonished that anyone would be stupid enough to prepare for an exam using an out of date reference book. That's like using an old highway code before your driving test.....

Incidentally, 'recency' refers to the '90-day rule'. There is no definition of 'currency'.

[IO540]

The problem with QFE is when doing a missed approach; you have to rewind the altimeter back to QNH for obstacle clearance / procedure altitudes and then wind it back again to QFE for the final.

It's easy to kill oneself; I did it a few times myself on a simulator.

That's why the rest of the world doesn't use QFE.

And if flying in VMC, there is arguably no need for an altimeter during terminal operations anyway.

[BEagle]

Which is why, when I was first an IRE, I used to take my candidates to Lulsgate. After an engine failure on the go-around, trying to reset the altimeter to QNH whilst following a MAP on 3-engines was always quite interesting for them....

[aviatorchina]

I am in aussie ,air law is really tricky!

[jai6638]

Because for countries without aerodromes at high elevations, it is perceived as being safer to know your height above the runway than your height above sea level (or rather, altitude).


Interesting.... Field elevation could change in a short distance so how would a person compensate for that when flying on a cross country? or is QFE only given for a particular "aerodrome"/airport?

[jai6638]

Ahh I see.. Thanks for that.. Makes sense now.... QFE doesn't seem to make a big difference...Probably helps because it avoids having to do FE+1000 feet everytime...

[IO540]

In fact you can't wind the altimeter that far back anyway.

I recall there is a procedure for high altitude airports, say 10,000ft elevation. What is it?