Things to do with a PPL(A)

[PPL152]

Hi guys

I recently got my PPL however I'm wandering if there is anything you guys recommend me to do or at least try, so that my flying fees get reduced or at least get paid for...

My only ideas are... traffic observing for a local radio station.... erm that's it I guess!!

Any ideas? Merci

[gcolyer]

I don't think there is anything you can do to get your flying for free as that would mean you are receiving reward for your flying which is against the law for a PPL.

You could take your mates for a trip and charge an equal share of the fuel cost to each of them.

[pistongone]

Traffic spotting is AOC stuff so not on. But you can drop parachutists, need to get a sign off i think, but it didnt sound like much work. You can tow gliders with the same deal as above. Tell your mates how great it is to fly yourself and get them along for the ride(cheque book or Master card in hand of course:uhoh: ) Or become an instructor and let someone else pay, only trouble is you will get dizzy going round and round in circuits:} Or stick a quid on the lottery and hope you dont have to worry about the finances:D :D If you take the last option, dont post your numbers on here as we would all win and the jackpot would be worth, well, jack all:=

[PPL152]

Lol yeah, ain't that lucky to win the lottery I'm afraid...

But hey, becoming an instructor requires CPL right?

[dublinpilot]

PPL152,

Your location is given as Malta.

Be very careful of the advice you receive here, as most or the participants will be working from UK legislation, which will not necessarly be the same in Malta.

dp

[pistongone]

Yes you do have to do a course of more training etc etc to become an instructor. But if you want to fly for free, even get paid(though not a lot in the good old UK:confused: ) then its an option! If your not a large person, like under 14 stone, then why not buy something like an Evans VP1? £3500 to buy and then about £25-30/hr depending on utilisation etc!

[PPL152]

No offence... Evans VP1 is just not my type of aircraft!
In Malta it costs somewhere around 150 euros to rent a C-172. I don't know how that relates to flying in UK, but I consider that quite expensive, considering I'm still a student too!
I'd be interested in doing the CPL though.... not for now

[gcolyer]

You don't need a CPL to become an Instructor.

However if you only have a PPL and an Instructore rating you will not be able to get paid for Instructing and you will not be able to get your Instructor restriction lifted, which means you will not be able to sign students off solo's or navex's

But you would get free P1 hours from the club that is willing to let you instuct for them..although it will be going round and round in circuits, stalls, slow flight, steep turns and PFL's..

[IO540]

UK context: a PPL can get free flying, by flying on the business of the company (which does not have to be a limited company) which he is an employee of, provided he is not contractually required to fly and can instead choose to drive, etc.

The company can provide you with the plane, completely free of charge to you. Or you can use your own plane and charge the entire cost of it to the company (Annuals and all).

For the taxman you have to account for business and private mileage separately; that a whole issue but it is separate from the legality of flying on business.

Gcolyer - why would you be stuck in the circuit? I know this is rare (because most people want to do a PPL at the minimum cost) but if a student wanted to fly to say Greece, why can't a PPL/FI come along?

I've wondered about this. I have little time and absolutely no time to do a JAA CPL, but I could certainly fly with PPL students and show them a few useful things. I did an (unofficial and unpaid) radio nav x/c flight just now.

[gcolyer]

Gcolyer - why would you be stuck in the circuit? I know this is rare (because most people want to do a PPL at the minimum cost) but if a student wanted to fly to say Greece, why can't a PPL/FI come along?


Legally you would be able to do everything post solo sign off, so you wont be restricted to the circuit, I did mention that :bored:

However the first hurdle is to find an FTO that will take on a PPL/FI (I have heard it is almost impossible) And if you do find an FTO that will take, I bet they will impose club restrictions on you so you couldn't do the further afield flights..at least until you gained quiet a few hours as PPL/FI and for them. All speculation though.

[IO540]

Hmmm... interesting if perhaps academic.

The whole issue is mixed up with the fact that most schools dislike any PPL, never mind a PPL/FI, taking "their students" up. If a PPL/FI works free of charge (which he has to) that just robs their remunerated instructors of work.

I can't see any school being happy with this - unless the whole place runs on free instruction.

Incidentally, can any JAA instruction (by "instruction" I mean a flight which the student can log as PU/T) be done outside a flying school (an FTO)? If not, where is the reference for it?

Of course, anybody can go up with a PPL and learn from it; he just can't log it. And he better not tell his school about the flight, either :)

[Arrowflyer]

UK context: a PPL can get free flying, by flying on the business of the company (which does not have to be a limited company) which he is an employee of, provided he is not contractually required to fly and can instead choose to drive, etc.

The company can provide you with the plane, completely free of charge to you. Or you can use your own plane and charge the entire cost of it to the company (Annuals and all).

For the taxman you have to account for business and private mileage separately; that a whole issue but it is separate from the legality of flying on business.
That's interesting as my accountant told me the whole lot would be a benefit in kind or taxed as per Company Car at n% of the value of the aircraft. I'm keen to know more, got any pointers?

[dublinpilot]

AW,

In the case that your accountant is talking about, the company owns the aircraft.

In the example that IO540 gives, you either own the aircraft, or hire the aircraft yourself from a third party, and charge these expenses on to the company. It's similar (if not quite the same) as charging the company a mileage rate for using your private car for work.

IO540 also adds the example that the company can also hire the aircraft from a third party and give it to you specifically for making the business related flight. Similar to a company hiring a car for a day, so that you (who doesn't have a car, but does have a drivers licence) can visit a client who is some distance away.

dp

[IO540]

To add to Dublinpilot's post, I now believe (could be wrong - always check with an accountant specialising in businesses of this type) that under the current aggressive "screw anybody with more money than me" Revenue approach to these types of "dual use" assets, the only way for one's business to own a plane, and not have the proprietor get done for BIK, while permitting the proprietor to do business flights, is to do an explicit agreement with the tax inspector first.

Then, private use will be OK too; you just agree a certain percentage, say 75% business / 25% private. With appropriate reimbursement of private flying costs to the company, this will avoid BIK entirely. We don't get to hear about this much because every businessman/pilot who has done this is keeping quiet about it.

The other way to avoid BIK would be for the proprietor(s) / Directors / employees to be contractually barred from using the plane for private purposes, and then you have to hire an outside pilot to do the flying.

There may be other ways for one's main business to own a plane, while not getting done for BIK, but I don't know what they are.

[floppyjock]

"But you can drop parachutists, need to get a sign off i think, but it didnt sound like much work."

It must be hard work as the BPA have changed the rules. You cannot start jump flying now if your 55 years old or over. But the good news is you can still go off and get an ATPL and fly for the airlines.

Floppy:rolleyes: