Liverpool to Le Touquet

[Brian304]

Hey everyone

Just wondered what the best way is to travel to Le touquet by?. maybe by following the different VOR's down, or going past luton and stansted for the stapleford VOR?. Or maybe anyone with experience and better ideas?.

Thanks

Brian304

[Keygrip]

I'd say part of the answer would be in the question "What is the purpose of the trip?".

However, I used to do the run almost every weekend....Whitegate, Lichfield, Daventry, Lambourne, Brookmans Park, Detling, Dover, "Point Charlie" (on the FIR boundary), Koksy, turned left direct Oostend.

I know you said L2K, but we always found EBOS to be better/cheaper for what we needed/wanted (IMC rating training). I'd consider the same route, but with a right turn at KOK for L2K.

Forgive me if I got any of those in the wrong order - not flown it for some 16 years and was working from memory (no map to look at).

Always took us 3 hours in a PA28 (each way).

BTW - was discussing just last night - can a trip like this still be VAT free and claim fuel drawback?

[pumper_bob]

I take it your not going to Paris now then? Also i would have thought the question should have been "how many kilos does it weigh?" Tonnes might be alittle bit inaccurate? Dont you think? Also flying liverpool to any french airfield in a TB10 would come to about £600-£700? So 20- either way on that landing fee wont make much of a difference surely?
Have a nice flight though and watch the weight and balance if your picking up wine or beer!

[GK430]

Whatever routeing to DTY - CPT - GWC - DCT (all the way at 5,0 from DTY)
saves ducking under the TMA.

[JUST-local]

You will have to pay the Vat as normal if you are renting, unless its a business trip etc. and you are going to claim it back through your own company or similar.

You will get duty back if you fill the form out, about £50.00 on a TB10 or similar on full tanks! :ok:

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/

use form HO60

[Brian304]

Dear all

I have had various replies, but just want to know a specific route from flying from liverpool, with full codes, with not like L2K or anythign like that, as I have not had that much experience flying in UK, because my PPL was done in the states. So if everyone could make the routes more specific.

Thanks and keep e'm comin in

Brian304:ok:

[S-Works]

OK well if it was me going....

I would route LIC BPK DET LFAT

Lichfield NBD, Brookmans Park Detling Le Touquet

[Fuji Abound]

EGGP EGBK EGSC EGSR EGMC LFAT

Maybe this is what you have in mind.

It would be an easy route to plot on the map or GPS overhead a number of smaller airfields.

The route avoids class D so is all in open FIR so no hassle there - albeit a little tight around Stansted so stay a little more to the East. It also avoids any more tricky transits - you could save some time following the VFR corridor over Luton or going between Stansted and Luton, but more accurate navigation and / or clearances are required.

Finally you could route direct to Cap Gris Nez and then along the coast to LFAT if you want to minimise the time over water.

About 2 and half hours at typical Warrior speeds in zero wind.

[Dr Eckener]

Whatever routeing to DTY - CPT - GWC - DCT (all the way at 5,0 from DTY) saves ducking under the TMA.
If you mean F050 you might want to check again. Will take you into the tma and is the incorrect level for that direction anyway (for the sections a FL is appropriate!).

[stickandrudderman]

BTW - was discussing just last night - can a trip like this still be VAT free and claim fuel drawback?

It most certainly can, but it requires some form filling, previous fuel bills for internal flights etc, and it takes about 5 months to get the cheque!

[JUST-local]

No It can not be VAT Free if you are hiring an aircraft from the UK! It is a service from a UK based Vat registered company end of storey, I have asked them!

You are correct with the UK paid duty on the fuel, you get it back in a few weeks as said before.

JL.......

[Keygrip]

I have asked them
You've asked "who"?

Student used to rent the aircraft from a VAT registered company, fly it across the international boundary to either Southern Ireland, Holland or Belgium and NOT be required to pay VAT on the rental (as well as getting fuel drawback).

Brian304 - as L2K is the ONLY non standard abbreviation in my message you are now educated in the shorthand for Le Touquet.

Are you grateful for the original answer? Doesn't sound like it. Apologies if I've wasted your time - I just enjoyed the typing.

[IO540]

There are some strange answers in this thread.

Firstly, the original poster, apparently being a novice pilot, should plan for the lowest workload and the greatest probability of being able to fly the route he planned, and that means planning it outside controlled airspace. Because VFR flight does not come with any sort of enroute clearance (neither does IFR flight outside the airways system, for that matter) you have to ask for a transit from every piece of Class D, and since they can refuse you have to plan the flight outside CAS anyway....

Planning the route on VORs gives a highly desirable companion to visual navigation... as would a decent GPS of course.

Regarding duty drawback, yes you can claim back drawback (approx 28p in the pound) for all fuel exported from the UK i.e. all fuel carried on a flight which terminates in a non-UK landing. Under current regs, even if some of the fuel on which drawback was claimed is still in the tank upon return, or if most of the fuel consumed was actually consumed within UK airspace, you can still claim back the whole lot as described. A lot of people think this is overly generous and "must" be wrong, and some Customs officers have given advice that differs, but this is the current legislation!

What you cannot do is claim back the duty twice on the same fuel, obviously, and Customs have arranged their application forms so as to make it more apparent if somebody did that. It is quite likely to be done accidentally on a club plane where nobody knows or cares where the previous renter took it. Obviously this leads us to the ethical issue of who should keep the drawback; if you claim it and still leave half a tank in there, then the next person can't claim it and you in effect got a cheaper trip than he is going to get. When I used to rent mine out, one person (an instructor!!) flew to L2K, claimed back the drawback on 240kg of a full tank, pocketed the lot, and the drawback paid for his entire fuel bill there and back! Of course it meant that one had to make sure that the 80% of the tank which he came back with had to be used up in the UK, which was a little unfair on myself or subsequent renters. I changed the rules after that, into a straight discount to anybody going abroad, and that was fair to all. The degree to which different clubs care about this varies, but do check with the body you are renting from before claiming the drawback and pocketing the lot.

Regards VAT, this is more complicated. I know of one airfield that sells VAT free fuel if your stated destination is overseas. I have no idea if this is legal. In normal export (goods/services) one does not charge VAT, unless the customer is in the EU but cannot supply his VAT number in which case you do have to change VAT... I have never heard of claiming back VAT on exported fuel.

[JUST-local]

"I have asked them" my local Vat office.

Taking the Vat off the fuel for export is also incorrect (I belive) as well, I have had this done on picking up a few extra litres prior to leaving the UK they automatically took off the Vat! (no Vat no suppled!) This is also a service (suppliying the fuel that is) from a UK based and Vat registered company provided here in the UK.....

IO540
yes there are three lines on the drawback form for you to prove that your tanks contain uk duty paid fuel, amounts place of uplift etc.

I am by no means a tax/Vat pervert just have asked the questions before, I'm sure that someone will have definitive answers if anyone really cares.......

JL.

[Keygrip]

It's an interesting, and obvious, move on from what I was saying - but I'd never thought of buying the fuel VAT free (or claiming it back).

We just used to fly the aircraft VAT free for rental (assuming we actually made it across the FIR) and had fuel drawback exactly as explained by IO540.

If the aircraft was (for round figures) £100 an hour plus VAT (so 117.50 an hour) and we flew it for the six hours planned, we paid £600 (not £705) - then we got the duty drawback which could be another 30 to 50 pounds (depending on how much fuel had been uplifted since its last FIR crossing, again as mentioned by IO540).

It used to save the students a heck of a lot of money, made NO difference to the school revenue and, was never criticised by HM Customs who were fully informed of our plans.

If the crew also bought duty free whilst in Ostend - that was another saving.

The landing fees were £2 sterling at EBOS for an "SEP". Curious to know what they are now.

[IO540]

I am not saying the VAT concession doesn't exist, but I have never come across it myself. If it does still exist, it must be a well guarded secret :)

OTOH, if you do export something out of the UK, and take it out personally via a port of entry, and have the VAT receipt handy, you can get the VAT back from Customs on your way out. This is pretty standard around Europe, though the degree of difficulty varies greatly and in some cases you have to apply by mail and the refund arrives some months later. However, in this scenario it is obvious the goods are being exported, by the fact that you are physically on your way out of the country...

[Brian304]

Well thanks for the help everyone, I have found the most efficient route now, as it is my first flight internationally. But hopefully should all go well.

Thanks again everyone.

P.S I have a group shared aircraft, so don't think I can claim back any VAT, even if I did it would all have to all go back to the group.

Thanks

Brian304:ok:

[Fuji Abound]

B304

I think you can claim back the VAT. It is you who put in the claim and it is you who is one of the owners of the aircraft - you are simply a joint owner.

What route did you decide on?

Let us know how you got / get on please.

[Brian304]

Actually fuji abound i'm going to follow the route that you've given me, as it seems the easiest and the only one that makes sense to me. But anyway I have another problem now, I need the VFR approach plate for LFAT. Has anyone got a photocopy or any ideas, or would I really have to spend an extra £40 for just that one plate.

Thanks again everyone

BRIAN304:E

[Cusco]

. Has anyone got a photocopy plate for LFAT or any ideas, or would I really have to spend an extra £40 for just that one plate.
Thanks again everyone
BRIAN304:E
Do you have access to a fax number:? alternatively PM me your email address
Safe (and stress free) flying
Cusco.;) ;)

[Tall_guy_in_a_152]

The official source for French VFR plates is the SIA website here (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/html/frameset_aip_uk.htm).
Select "VAC aerodromes", then "VAC aerodromes in force" and type LFAT into the search. You will get everything you need for free.

[denhamflyer]

Try the french SIA (http://www.sia.aviation-civile.gouv.fr/default_uk.htm) site (in english) it has all the latest plates.

Go to the AIP, select AIP and then type in LFAT, highlight the box on the left (Le Touquet-Paris-Plage) and then "OK" select the VAC (Visual) or IAC (Instrument).

Ooops - sorry missed the previous post.