Garmin 496 - any good for terrain warnings?

[IO540]

This new unit is only just becoming available over here. It's very expensive especially as the weather link won't work in Europe. However it has an interesting feature: terrain clearance warnings.

This feature is said to work well over there, but then over there the topography (and all aviation chart data) is public domain. Here it is mostly Ordnance Survey copyright (especially so if you include surveyed man-made obstacles) and other European countries are just as bad.

If this box works, it's a lot cheaper than the Honeywell GPWS which is about £10k and which is actually no more than a GPS with a bit of software on top, driving a loudspeaker. Plus a piece of paper with rubber stamps on it, of course.

This Q is not in the context of the DIY approaches thread at all, BTW.

[IO540]

I've just noticed the Avmap EKP IV advertised (in the US AOPA magazine) as having TAWS too.

The Avmap is a very nice unit (I have played with one at an exhibition) but despite being made in Italy it appears almost totally unsupported in Europe.

Incidentally, do any of these units have a quick way of waypoint (or DCT waypoint) entry?

[drauk]

As I understand it (could be wrong), the European 496 doesn't have the XM receiver in it. I am sure I read that somewhere though I don't recall where, but witness that the list price on Garmin's website is $2995 for the American version and $2395 for the European one. Of course, in reality, I imagine that they both have identical hardware internally and a single thing has changed to enabled/disable the XM receiver - either a software thing or a jumper on a PCB.

The 496 has a jack for audio output to give audible terrain alerts. The mapping resolution is said to be higher than the 296 and the 496 includes obstacles which the 296 does not.

The general polish, particularly the graphical maps, are much better than panel mounts that cost 10 times as much. Usability is about the same too - pretty crap, but hard to get much better with so few buttons.

Not quite sure what you mean about a quick way of entering waypoints. You flick through the letters, one at a time, just like a panel mount. If you've got a waypoint somewhere (e.g. in a flightplan) you can highlight it and hit direct. Did you have something more specific in mind?

[IO540]

What I had in mind was an on-screen touch keypad, like one gets on a tablet PC running say Flitedeck :)

BTW I have never actually found a way to do this on Flitedeck, but it must be there somewhere...

Last time I made enquiries about XM weather, I found out that the satellite coverage doesn't go as far as Europe, so even if one had the receiver, and European weather data was actually transmitted, one still would not be able to receive it. There are bound to be sidelobes on the sat transmitter but one would need a much better aerial to pick those up.

[Brooklands]

Altough XM weather isn't available in Europe at the moment, satellite radio services might be on the way according to this article (http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/articles.php?title=Subscription-satellite-radio-to-launch-in-20092010), so there's a possibility that an associated weather service might show up

I wouldn't advise holding your breath though :}

Brooklands

[englishal]

The 496 unit looks pretty good. I believe the TAWS function will work in the UK as well as the obstacle database - their advertising seems to point to this. The dB's are provided by Jeppesen.

It also seems to have the final approach waypoints so you can sequence a GPS (or other - GPS overlay if you like) approach, not that you would as it is not IFR certified, but it would be good to back up traditional nav gear with ;)

I was looking for a 496 simulator on the Garmin web site but can't find one. The thing I like about the Garmins is that the way the software operates seems pretty standard between the different models i.e. 496, 430, 530, G1000 etc.....which makes moving from aeroplane to aeroplane pretty straight forward (as someone who rents G1000 equipped aeroplanes)....

[IO540]

Brooklands

Interesting link. I can't say whether there is a market for sat radio in Europe but there is unlikely to be one for an in-flight weather service to GA.

Only the UK, Germany and perhaps France has any significant GA population, and only a tiny fraction of that does flights that could benefit from this. It's a far cry from the USA and its huge IFR GA population.

On top of that, European pilots (and UK pilots specifically) don't like paying for anything.

I've posted this before but this outfit

http://www.moving-terrain.de/en/index_en.htm

is selling in-flight weather radar, using their own hardware. I don't know what system they transmit the data on, but I spoke to them and the entry level is high, about £5000. The annual sub is very reasonable, about £90, but that is far from the whole story of how much this lot costs.

Getting back to the 496, it looks like a nice unit for VFR and it might be OK as a backup for an IFR GPS if it does airways acceptably and with a fast user interaction. ATC give you a DCT to an intersection and they want to see you turning to it within 10-20 seconds. One can ask for a vector I suppose...

A tablet computer does much more of course but the cost of replacing the HD with 16GB of flash (so it works at airway levels, where the air is too thin for the HD head to float) is as much as buying a Garmin 496.

[drauk]

The 496 certainly has no touch screen. You select a waypoint just like you did 10 years ago in a Garmin handheld.

I realise that XM weather isn't available in Europe - which is precisely why they're selling the 496 in Europe more cheaply.

The handheld x96 doesn't "do" airways, just like their GNSx30 panel mounts don't. They don't have proper approaches in them either, just a FAF. They do have intersections.

In my experience the 296 is fast enough in terms of screen updates, though faster, as the 496 is, is always better I suppose. User interaction is as fast as you can bash out the name of the intersection, unless it's one of dozen or so nearest in which case you can probably get to it in about 10 seconds. I certainly think it is fast enough to keep ATC happy in that respect.

Other plusses to a X96 over a tablet PC I would say are robustness, battery life, reliability and not getting so damned hot. But obviously you won't be reading your email or watched a DVD on it.

[scooter boy]

I am loving all this (at least) talk about satellite weather services in Europe, Brooklands.
I have been pestering the wx:xm guys for a while - figure if I send enough e-mails requesting european coverage they may think there are enough pilots over here to justify a satellite just for the likes of us - cool!:cool:

wrt terrain awareness - the G1000 I fly on has a superimposed terrain warning feature but no obstacle database for europe - so you will clear the mountain but hit the TV mast on top of it! (feature only possible outside the continental USA)!!
Terrain really paid for itself crossing the Alps at night last autumn while flying Plymouth - Milan Linate - pucker factor :\ was acceptably low.

Get pestering the wx:xm people - 200 messages each per day should do it and we can wrap it up in a month,

Yours optimistically,

SB

[dublinpilot]

IO,

PocketFMS has a "relative terrain" feature. Not quite GPWS, but none the less very useful. You already have all the required equipment.

http://img65.imageshack.us/img65/7706/image1cc0.jpg

In this case green= more than 1000ft clearance, yellow =more than 500ft clearance, but less than 1000ft clearance, and red = less than 500ft clearance. These amounts are user adjustable.


If using the PDA version, you also have the quick input method you require. It pops up a large button keyboard (not the usual PDA tiny keyboard). It's rather like a calculator keyboard.

The on screen keys are like those of your mobile phone, with 3 letters on each, and you input the waypoint with a method similar to predictive text on your mobile phone. It works quite well. Sorry I don't know how to do a screen shot from my PDA for the keyboard.

dp

[Tim_CPL]

Another thing missing from the European version would be WAAS. If it were possible, I would buy the US one an load the European map onto it, assuming you were also going to use it from time to time in the US....

- Tim

[IO540]

I read somewhere that the European EGNOS should work with the 496, but have no way of checking this.

[Pudnucker]

I have a 296. It does have WAAS, I find it really easy to use (buy the training DVD though). Terrain avoidance is also on the unit (have never needed to use it but a nice to have I guess). Considered an upgrade to the 496 but simply cannot justify it - unless they bring wx coverage over here. Been using the 296 for over a year now with some interesting flying on the continent and in Scotland. Wouldn't be without it!