Where are our 'Allies'

[mlc]

So, our gallant NATO allies have refused to supply any troops or support for Afghanistan.

If it wasn't so sickening, it would be laughable! What's the point of the organisation now?

[Letsby Avenue]

Don't remember Afghanistan actually invading a member country of NATO :}

[SRENNAPS]

[QUOTE=mlc;2879830]So, our gallant NATO allies have refused to supply any troops or support for Afghanistan.

Maybe our NATO allies are unsure of who the enemy is these days. After all, only a few years ago Russia was our enemy and Afganistan was one of our allies. Maybe our NATO allies cant embrace the "rate of change" the way we do!!!!

[RileyDove]

Maybe our Allies don't see the point in killing a never ending supply of Taliban and the fact that the poppy trade is worse now then it was under them.

[SRENNAPS]

Maybe our Allies don't see the point in killing a never ending supply of Taliban and the fact that the poppy trade is worse now then it was under them.

hammer nail and hit seems to spring to mind there.

[ZH875]

the poppy trade is worse now

Why can't Uncle Sam deploy his best FBI man on this task....

..You know him....



Agent Orange.:)


If that doesn't stop the poppy trade, nothing will.

[ORAC]

It is UN approved, it is NATO approved, it is nationally approved.

If the only thing they want NATO for is against the possibility against an attack on their own nation, and an offer of help against the same against ours, and the light of the present threat..... isn't a total waste of money and, as the Russians say, a provocative remnant of the cold war?....

[High_lander]

But to point an obvious (perhaps STUPID) point, *whispers* Afghanistan isn't near the North Atlantic.:confused:

Is it to do (as described below) because of the AQ attack on 11/9/2001?

*Digs trench**Dons tin hat**Ducks*

[Squirrel 41]

Don't remember Afghanistan actually invading a member country of NATO

Letsby,

The Taliban regime was hosting, and refused to surrender, al Qaeda before and after 9/11. The North Atlantic Council (NAC) enacted support to the US on 12 September 01 under Article 5 (an attack on one is an attack on all) for the first time in NATO's history.

There was an armed attack. We are still attempting to deal with the consequenes in Afghanistan, and for the first time since 2001, we're actually trying to do so across the whole country, and with sufficient development and hearts and minds projects to win for the long term. (Should've done this in 02 rather than creating new AQ training camp in Iraq IMHO, but there you are. :* )

Best to all out there and soon to go... it's a invaluable job under ****ty circumstances. God speed and good luck.

S41

[Letsby Avenue]

Quite right.. Best of luck to all involved. Unfortunately it doesn't quite matter what the NAC say - people are not convinced and they are not sending troops to the party (Shouldn't we have invaded Saudi Arabia anyway?)

If we kill all the Taliban - is it ethnic cleansing? :confused: As for the poppy crop why don't we just buy it?

[Two's in]

Ground - Check, Situation - Check, Mission - Che...hang on, what was the military mission again. Drop that down on an orders card, and NATO will be right on it I'm sure.

[mbga9pgf]

Quite right.. Best of luck to all involved. Unfortunately it doesn't quite matter what the NAC say - people are not convinced and they are not sending troops to the party (Shouldn't we have invaded Saudi Arabia anyway?)
If we kill all the Taliban - is it ethnic cleansing? :confused: As for the poppy crop why don't we just buy it?


Why dont we just make the poppies, them and their kids just glow in the dark? We have got the technology, and they sure as hell wouldnt hold back if they had it. I get the general feeling governments these days lack the balls and nouse to get the job done.

[RileyDove]

Squirrel - Al Qaeda is generic - it can be transfered to any group of like minded people around the world. To think you can freeze Afghanistan at a period of relative safety and hope it will stay that way is a dream. Do we stay in Afghanistan for twenty,thirty years in the hope the Taliban don't regroup? As for buying the poppy crop - we did try that but the people running the programme ran out of money and some of the farmers ended up with nothing for their crop so they now do their own thing!
As for the attack on the U.S being an attack on a member state of NATO - indeed it was . However was NATO ever bought into play to help in the fight against terrorism in Europe during the 1960's and 70's? The fact that the attack caused destruction on a massive scale was unfortunately a clear sign of the increasing sophistication of the terrorist in the late 1990's and possibly driven by America's policies in the Middle East.

[Load Toad]

A couple of hundred years ago some Brit governor or such of India advised Her / His Majesty's govt that Afghanistan formed a natural buffer zone twixt Russia and The Empire and that nothing good would come of interferring inside that country.

Whenever foreigners try to sort that place out they come away with bloody noses.

And here we are again.

We should stop thinking that 'democracy' is the panacea for the worlds ills - if they don't want to get better leave 'em to it. If enough of them want to get better they will.

[buoy15]

Why not give this poppy crop to the British Legion to sell on to the public to celebrate Nov11, in memory of that butcher Haig, who wasted so many men in his efforts to move his drinks cabinet forward another few yards?
Are we there again?

[El Grifo]

Simple solution, perhaps too simple for the Global warriors. After all, where would the arms industry benefit :ugh:




http://www.globalideasbank.org/site/bank/idea.php?ideaId=5887

Key points being :-

- The farmers in Afghanistan would get a fair price for their crop.
- It would stop farmers joining the Taliban.
- It would reduce the price of morphine.
- It would address the morphine shortage.
- It would help stabilize Afghanistan.
- There would be a dramatic drop in Heroin reaching europe.

[Letsby Avenue]

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,3-2381896,00.html

Says it all really.. Don't suppose our glorious EU leaders are behind any of this? How dearly they would love to see the demise of NATO and the end of those meddlesome Americans :suspect:

[Letsby Avenue]

Here we go again... :rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5395928.stm

[phil gollin]

Because the other NATO countries understand the disaster that is "mission creep".

The idea in Afghanistan was that the US would support the government and fight the Taliban (thus getting themselves into a mess in trying to deal with the "warlords".

NATO forces would NOT priarily fight the Taliban, but would be peace keepers and try to control the poppy growing and bring reconstruction into effect.

Now, spot where the problem is !

NATO countries (other than Canada and UK) are quite rightly saying they do not want to step into the morass of doing the US's job - they are happy to do the peace keeping and reconstruction, but not the anti-taliban stuff.

If the Taliban won't co-operate and only attack the US then you have a typical international mess. The other NATO countries can see what will happen if they don't hold out for what they agreed, why doesn't this get commented on by Blair and co ?

Now if this was a normal situation, the UK's politicians and armed forces would be shouting "mission creep", but heaven help them if they had so much sense when so much spin is involved.

That is why that rather strange statement was made so many months ago about being happy if no shots were to be fired, because the original mission wasn't what is now occuring.

[El Grifo]

Any feedback on the poppy to morphine point, or is it as I postulated, a tad too simplistic and not in line with militaristic objectives.

[Stafford]

Absolutely right everyone, lets get the eff out of Iraq and Afghanistan, blame ourselves, especially the Americans, for the massive increase in world and Islamic terrorism since the 70's and wait for the "peace dividend" when we get to the negotiating table with AQ, the Taliban, Hezbollah, Army of God, etc etc etc

I'm sure their terms will be reasonable. :zzz: :E

[ma109]

Spot on Stafford.

The increase in terrorism has got absolutely nothing to do with the US support for Israel and all the Middle eastern "democracies" such as Saudi Arabia, Algeria, Iraq (pre 1991....)

Now if only I could work out why AQ and the rest of the fundamentalists don't bomb Sweden, Norway, Germany, Italy,:confused:

[mbga9pgf]

I'm sure their terms will be reasonable. :zzz: :E

Why, has anyone spoke to them to actually find out what their terms are?

Dialogue does not necessarily mean appeasement.

[El Grifo]

Terms = World Domination last time I checked :suspect:

[Stafford]

Waiting for the next Caliphate Grifo = Same thing. The eradication of all free thought, death to all "unbelievers" (including Aston Villa fans, the greatest believers of all :E ) and total submission to their perverted Islamic fundamentalist beliefs.

mbg - I think you'll find that anyone who falls into their hands finds it very difficult to talk with their throats cut. :=

[mlc]

AQ have targeted Norway, Denmark, Germany, Spain, Indonesia etc etc. It's not just the 'obvious' countries.

They're intention is to destroy all things 'Western'.

They've also got a contract on Khofi Annan....although I'm not sure that's a bad thing!

[mbga9pgf]

Waiting for the next Caliphate Grifo = Same thing. The eradication of all free thought, death to all "unbelievers" (including Aston Villa fans, the greatest believers of all :E ) and total submission to their perverted Islamic fundamentalist beliefs.
mbg - I think you'll find that anyone who falls into their hands finds it very difficult to talk with their throats cut. :=

Well, quite easy to solve that one, extridite anyone in the west back to their beloved eastern homeland that preaches "perverted ISlamic Fundamentalist Beliefs" and Prevent anyone getting in that POTENTIALLY could have sympaties to that. We dont need to go over to their homeland to teach them western "Extremeist" Neocon Ideals about "freedom", "Democracy" and "liberty" to achieve our strategic goal over there. (whilst G.W. personally authorises transgressions against the Geneva convention as he sees fit) But then again, Bush and Blair would have been better placed to have based their global ambitions and Grand Strategy after reading "The art of War" instead of "The Bible".

As far as I can tell, the only terms I have heard is they want western interests out of the middle east. Fair one if you ask me, its their hole smelling of camel dung.

Oh, nice to see the Def Sec was looking after tones political asparations instead of challenging the Status Quo..

Independent article (http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1777868.ece)


"Despite clear advice that a "significant" withdrawal of troops from Iraq was needed before a new mission, Mr Reid went ahead with the Afghan deployment after coming under pressure from Tony Blair. The advice, prepared by military planners and endorsed by the Chiefs of the Defence Staff, was given to Mr Reid on his arrival as Secretary of State for Defence in May last year. Despite the warnings, he went ahead with the deployment in January."

[El Grifo]

How come I was sent :-

Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************

---Quote (Originally by Stafford)---
Waiting for the next Caliphate Grifo = Same thing. The eradication of all free thought, death to all "unbelievers" (including Aston Villa fans, the greatest believers of all :E ) and total submission to their perverted Islamic fundamentalist beliefs.
mbg - I think you'll find that anyone who falls into their hands finds it very difficult to talk with their throats cut. :=
---End Quote---

Well lets get them to state that then throw small pots of sunlight their way. As I said previously, they might learn to shut up if their kids are glowing in the dark. If they intend to mess with the west, they better be willing to reap our full wrath as well.
***************


Not quite the same thing really mbga9pgf :hmm:

[mbga9pgf]

How come I was sent :-
Not quite the same thing really mbga9pgf :hmm:

Edited after toungue in cheek impetuous statement that was meant to show the futility of our actions:ouch: :yuk:

[El Grifo]

Right! - - been there, done that, got the bruises to prove it :ok:

[RileyDove]

Stafford - Funnily enough if you read todays papers it seems that our Army has negociated indirectly with the Taliban for a withdrawl from a part of Helmand ! As for terrorism - did they find a link with Iraq ? It seems Al Qaeda was as welcome in Iraq under Saddam as George Bush is now!