Vc-10 Mel

[flash8]

Is a functioning ELRAT part of the MEL?
Any known incidents of its actual use in the field?
Appreciate the response. Thanks.

[BEagle]

VC10 MEL??

No such thing.

ELRATs are checked on Air Test. No way of testing serviceability until you drop the thing, so who knows whether or not it's serviceable.

[Klingon]

Course there is an MEL for the VC10, just we call it a Go,No Go list. You cant get an Airworthiness Cert without one and as the VC10 had a civvie AW Cert then an MEL had to exist.

As Beagle reports the ELRAT is tested on Air Test and presumed servicable for subsequent flights, just as the drop down oxygen and loo flush etc is. If a crew member has reason to suspect any item of equipment is US then a risk assessment against the MEL (Go,No Go) list is made. Usually, as I remember, a captains wet finger in the air.:= Or is it a wet captains finger in the air!

[Eye off the ball]

Of course you'd know whether it was serviceable or not. You'd get an ECAM message and then appropriate advice/checks etc.









Sorry, getting mixed up; it's been a year or two! Klingon is right - I seem to remember it was the wet finger that was the final arbiter.

[flash8]

Thanks for the replies, guess I didn't articulate my question correctly! what I really wanted to know was, if the ELRAT was known to be U/S, what would the "go, no go" list say?

OK.. got the response from EotB, thanks. Surprised though that the VC-10's have ECAM, I thought those things (the 10's) were positively archaic. Thanks.

[Zoom]

MEL, ELRAT, ECAM.............heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllpp me someone!!!!!!! :{

[goldcup]

*makes whoooooosh noise*

There is an ECAM- he's usually wearing a slightly-too-tight flying suit and sits behind the co-pilot.

EotB- how quickly you forget your roots! Not long til you regress to the 1970s again and the sidestick will be but a distant memory....

[BEagle]

MEL - Minimum Equipment List. A requirement for all modern public transport aircraft, it lays down what may be unserviceable before flight and the corresponding limitation. Crews must adhere to the MEL The VC10 pre-dated this requirement; it does not have a 'go / no go' list either, it has a list of recommendations in the Topic 2R1 (or whatever it's called now) which are for aircrew guidance only and not for the groundcrew to think of as a 'no go' reference document.

ELRAT - Electrical Ram Air Turbine. Certain electrical failures require this to be lowered; it provides emergency electrical power because, unlike modern aircraft or even the Vulcan, the VC10 auxiliary power unit cannot be used in flight. It powers a limited number of powered flying control units and other systems. Way back it was also planned to fit a HYDRAT to provide emergency hydraulic power, but this was not fitted to production aircraft.

ECAM - Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitor system. As fitted to all Airbus aircraft, but emphatically NOT the VC10! Any system caution or warning will cause an appropriate chime, description of failure and action to be taken. Boeing have something similar, termed Engine Instrumentation and Crew Alerting System (EICAS). The ancient VC10 has a food-powered systems monitoring system (termed the air engineer), plus various bells, klaxons, lights and gauges scattered around the flight deck.

[FFP]

Catering and the Imprest both appear on the 2r1.
Definate no go items if you are without them !!

[Zoom]

Thank you BEagle. It reminds me of a conversation I had last week with the Orange e-mail help-line. En passant, I asked this nice young lady in Mumbai what SMTP meant, as I had once known and then forgotten. 'It's how you send your e-mails.' 'Yes, but what do the letters mean?' 'You know when you send your e-mails? Well, that's what does it.' 'I KNOW, BUT WHAT DOES IT MEAN?????' Etc, etc...............

[airborne_artist]

Zoom - no doubt you Googled and got to:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Mail_Transfer_Protocol

Massive thread creap, but I love it when TLAs have entirely different meanings in another industry. PR to a media luvvie means public relations, but to a medic it means per rectum :E

[BEagle]

Either that or some leather-and-dungeon-in-Berlin site with big blonde whip-wielding dominatrices!
















Allegedly......

[haltonapp]

I remember dropping the ELRAT (spanish mouse) at circuit height as part of the airtest schedule so that the leckie could adjust the voltage regulator, (panel PA if I remember correctly, sad b'stard that I am). Watching it take over the previously switched off "haystack". I was never convinced of its safety at altitude as the frequency was affected by any slight change in IAS/TAS at this low level, so what it would be like when the TAS was higher? In fact the story of the BOAC FE who was balancing fuel, one tank to four engines, (big wallet no guarantee of big brain) and left the flight deck to chat to a trolley dolly, ELRAT had to be dropped, engines restarted aircraft climbed back up to altitude. The crew was unable to hide their misfortune as the ELRAT had disintegrated!

[Loopdeloop]

Eees a hamstaa meester Fawlty

[Dan Winterland]

However, I do remeber that when there was a problem with the ELRAT voltage regualtors a few years ago, they were limmed "For Emergency Use Only".

Was I missing something? :ugh:

[BEagle]

I think that was after the one which caught fire on me in 141, Dan, during a supplementary air test. The aircraft had been 'stored' at RAF St. Athan and the ELRAT's voltage regulator had become corroded - hardly surprising, given the environment. The original air test had to be cut short because yet another voltage regulator had died on us during the shut down and relight section, giving that well-known VC10K loss of 1 & 3 busbars and no flight instuments. Until we got the engine going again, that is. Never seen so many MIs cross-line, pretty lights and warning flags!!

The ELRATs were then lim'd as you said - but only until they were re-inspected and a fleet-wide ELRAT-dropping session had been completed.

[stickmonkeytamer]

Don't know VC-10 Mel- once knew a Fastjet Jen though...;)

[FFP]

Ah yes FastJet Jen . . .. .


. . .. "That's funny. I'm the boss of that Sqn and I don't know you !":ok:

[Stretchwell]

Are VC10s really still flying? I thought they were all in museums years ago !! :rolleyes: :D :=

[Art Field]

They are, it is called the Royal Air Force.

[Stretchwell]

I know.............................and it's called taking the piss !! :D

I quite often see the Brize Norton Memorial Flight (BNMF) flying about near my abode in Wiltshire.

Oh, I'm still in the Royal Air Force too in my spare time - until my sense of humour completely runs out !! :ugh:

Regards.

[MrBernoulli]

Stretchwell
Pilot? Living in Wilts? You drive dirty smelly Hercs?:ok:

[The Gorilla]

Stretch

You volunteer to give up your spare time to Air Farce. Oh boy do you need help!!

[Stretchwell]

Thay all depends on whose terms it is on - definately mine !! Makes a change from charging around the world and I get plenty of time off in which to do it. Maybe it's because I only did 9 and a bit years in the RAF and I've still got a good sense of humour !! :ugh: :D When it's no fun I'll give it up.

[adrian mole]

Beags,

You are the expert and I do not want to cross horns but I am sure on My TriStar training that the ELRAT was defined as Emergency Lowered Ram Air Turbine??

Basically used to teach the guys never to walk under airframe near the thing as stowed under pressure and wouold severely injure if deployed....

[ORAC]

I wouldn't be the first time two manufacturers have used the same acronym for different things. In this case BEagle would appear to be correct: VC10.net (http://www.vc10.net/abbreviations.html).

[Jhieminga]

Simple answer to the acronym situation. Back in the VC10 days ELRAT stood for ELectrical Ram Air Turbine to make sure it wasn't mistaken for the HYRAT which was the HYdraulic Ram Air Turbine. (see photo here with both deployed: http://www.vc10.net/Memories/Images/Elrat.jpg, ELRAT on right) In the end the HYRAT was never fitted to the production aircraft but the main reason for the ELRAT was to provide power for the flying controls which, as Beagle pointed out, were electrical. Since then almost every airliner or large transport (the Tristar is of course less prehistoric than the VC10) has had hydraulically powered flying controls and so the main purpose for a RAT became provision of hydraulic power. The name must have stuck though.

(Thanks for the plug ORAC, but it did remind me that I need to update that page one day ;))

[1553]

ELRAT Voltage regulators had a problem with a bank of capicitors in them. Cant remember the exact Lim but it was only until they had all been changed. As for testing there was a test for on the ground using a great big rig with a fan to blow the thing round. Never saw it used but it was in a hangar at Brize some time in the early 80's when all the ex BA tens whre brought by MOD PE.
And yes Panel PA is where the Regulator sits. Not a nice job setting it up while flying circuits as I remember.

[The Helpful Stacker]

Are VC10s really still flying? I thought they were all in museums years ago !! :rolleyes: :D :=

You've got to feel sorry for the WAFU types though, their highest performance a/c are in their heritage flight.:rolleyes:

[Saintsman]

Back to the MEL or Go - No go.

I once had a VC-10 captain sat with an aircraft full of passengers who refused to take the aircraft unless someone turned up with lemon for his tea.

Of course he got it.......

[BEagle]

I'm sure that the stewards were able to find something suitable to add to his tea....

No wonder people used to have disdain for the shiny fleet!

[haltonapp]

Funny old thing, I saw in last weeks flight that the the A380 will be fitted with a RAT to provide emergency electrical power to one control service in each axis. Very forward design the old Vickers Fun Bus