What would you do in the event of a crash?

[Bat-Off]

I've been running over this situation in my mind; What are the steps you would take if a Helicopter crashed in your immediate vicinity?

Call the EMS? Run over and try to drag people out?

:confused:

[SASless]

Go wake Thibodeuax up.

[Dis-Mystery of Lift]

Been in that situation,First there with Fire extinguisher,pulled pilot out,shut off fuel etc and all turned out well except for written off Helo and dented pride:{ not mine I must add:ok:

I thnik if your close you have to get there and see what you can do and let the 2nd or 3rd people call fire service etc.

[[email protected]]

Call the emergency services first, then go and help. That way if you get hurt helping or the people you pull out are injured beyond your help, the rescue services are already on their way.
Beyond that - shut down the engine if it is still running and turn off the fuel and electrics.

[The Hustler]

When it comes to shutting down the engine and fuel/electric systems, how easy is it for Joe Public to do this if they come accross a downed helicopter? I know in the world of motor racing (all disciplines) there is a sign pointing towards the cut-off, and if someone comes accross a car crash and the engine is running, it's fairly obvious how to turn it off. In a helicopter, however, if you are trapped after a crash and in no fit state to help the would-be rescuer, what clues do they have?

The military have "Rescue" arrows and signage on all their birds . . .

[What Limits]

More and more cars have unconventional start / stop systems - my Renault has a transponder 'key', although it does have a big button that says 'Engine Start Stop'.

No military or civilian aircraft I have flown has clearly marked cut off switches and none of them has an intuitive system for closing them down.

Perhaps it is time for a clearly marked cut off switch.

[The Hustler]

Just remembered that even public transport buses in the UK have marked fuel cutoff switches - some friends of mine used to stop traffic in Bath by hitting the cutoffs on two buses while they were stationary next to each other :E.

At least in a helicopter you're unlikely to get people hitting an external shutoff while you are hovering OGE :hmm:

[treadigraph]

No military or civilian aircraft I have flown has clearly marked cut off switches and none of them has an intuitive system for closing them down

Saw a thread on another forum recently which included pcis of a C-124 Globemaster that had crashed and been destroyed while landing in Alaska in the 50s. However the port wing and u/c leg was still relatively intact and one of the engines (the inboard one I think) complete with prop continued running for quite a few hours afterwards. Can't remember whether it stopped through fuel exhaustion or if somebody found a way to stop it, but quite impressive. I believe all the crew survived OK by the way.

[The Hustler]

I stand corrected - I was familiar with the military signage warning of canopy and rescue points, as well as things to avoid. I thought there would be something for the rescue crews as well, but I suppose those guys are pretty well trained and drilled in what to do anyway . . .

[CyclicRick]

Go for the instruments, you'll get most for them. Don't bother going through the pilots pockets, if I'm anything to go by there won't be any rich pickings there! :}

[Heli-Ice]

CR

You can get $7k for the Garmin 430 :E

[Grainger]

Quickly scribble a story to sell to the local rag:

For maximum journalisitic sales potential, be sure to include the following phrases:

"pilot struggles heroically with controls"

"copter plunge terror"

extra bonus points for using any of the words: "doomed", "plummet", "stricken", "horror".

Don't forget to describe the tail rotor as a "propeller" . . .

. . . and if it can have narrowly missed a housing estate and a school playground, so much the better.

[MightyGem]

When it comes to shutting down the engine and fuel/electric systems, how easy is it for Joe Public to do this if they come accross a downed helicopter?
Probably nearly impossible if my experince is anything to go by. It took me quite a while to find the fuel cut off, or twistgrip(long time ago, so can't remember which one I used), in the mangled cockpit of a jet ranger, despite having just landed in the same type. :(

[SAR Bloke]

It depends on the type!!

The SAR guys (should) get a hazards brief on the aircraft type (and indeed that particular aircraft if it is known) and this information determines their response. Some aircraft use extremely hazardous materials and should only be approached with the correct PPE and, in certain cases, breathing apparatus is highly recommended.

If it were a composite aircraft that has crashed and is on fire, I probably won't go anywhere near it.:uhoh:

[Letsby Avenue]

Before you do anything (in the UK) consider fully the implications of any Health & Safety legislation - Having considered the matter fully, stand back and watch the bugger burn....:}


Grainger - Do you work for RAF PR?

Wahaaay. 250 posts....I need to get a life.

[Creaser]

Experts say fight the fire first, but in reality the average portable size fire extingisher isnt going to have much effect on 200 gallons of jet fuel.

The interesting question to ask is how many pruners have experienced a crash where fuel tank ruptured but their was no fire?

Usually if there is a fire it starts immediatley?

So do you prepare a casualty for extraction, but don't him move unless you suspect a fire will start?


Creaser

[mini]

Search their pockets, steal their watches and walk off whistleing or you'll be talking & writing for months...:E

[jessie13]

Having seen a few crashes over the year (Sea King, Black Hawk, Scout, Wessex, UH-1H), There are as many ways to shut a helicopter down as there are types. Some need DC power, some AC, some need to shut a HP cock or wind down a throttle or retard a PCL. Jo Public is not going to know or even try. If the crew are that incapacitated, its very likely that (A) the cockpit is inaccessable (B) the engines have fodded and have shut down anyway or (C) there is no-one alive to rescue. I've been trained in the Fire Fighting side of helicopter crashes and we dont attempt a rescue until the fire is out or engines off. It would be a very daunting task to attempt to shut an aircraft down with no knowledge, a possible fire hazard and an engine whining near by. In regards to fires, none of these aircraft I saw caught fire but fuel was prevelant at all except the Black Hawk crashes. The Black Hawks crash worthiness really comes into play because the fuel tanks were still pressurised!

[jr51xx]

Having seen a few crashes over the year (Sea King, Black Hawk, Scout, Wessex, UH-1H), There are as many ways to shut a helicopter down as there are types. Some need DC power, some AC, some need to shut a HP cock or wind down a throttle or retard a PCL. Jo Public is not going to know or even try. If the crew are that incapacitated, its very likely that (A) the cockpit is inaccessable (B) the engines have fodded and have shut down anyway or (C) there is no-one alive to rescue. I've been trained in the Fire Fighting side of helicopter crashes and we dont attempt a rescue until the fire is out or engines off. It would be a very daunting task to attempt to shut an aircraft down with no knowledge, a possible fire hazard and an engine whining near by. In regards to fires, none of these aircraft I saw caught fire but fuel was prevelant at all except the Black Hawk crashes. The Black Hawks crash worthiness really comes into play because the fuel tanks were still pressurised!
Actually the Blackhawk fuel system was designed to be very crashworthy. The fuel cells are not pressurized during operation but instead the engines utilize a negative pressure to draw the fuel from the tanks into the engine. When the engine is no longer running the fuel hopefully remains in the fuel cell
and the negative pressure in the system returns to ambient.

[Minty Fresh]

What would you do in the event of a crash?

"Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."
- Cpt Blackadder

[helopat]

The Black Hawks crash worthiness really comes into play because the fuel tanks were still pressurised!

Fraid not Jessie...Blackhawk (and Seahawk, for that matter) don't have pressurised fuel systems...all suction up to the fuel pump...but no pressure within the fuel cells.

As Jesie mentioned, most helicopters 'shut themselves down' in spectacular fashion when they crash...if its still in one piece aircrew will normally shutdown and self extract.

HP

[Awright]

The few things I remember from a First Aid training I received quite a long time ago are fairly simple and apply to any kind of accident:
1- Protect the area, the people who might be around the scene, any traffic (especially in urban area), hot cables and stuff that might make things worse.
2- Alert the Emergency crews: have a look at the "victims" (are they conscious/unconscious, responsive/non-responsive, injuries...), taking all the necessary precautions (any rotating blades, fuel leak etc.), to inform the medics BEFORE step 3.
3- Rescue: the bottomline here is to not overestimate your skills, if you've been trained to do anything then do it but if not, don't make (again) things worse by releasing a pilot with a 1000 pieces broken leg for example, the qualified people will do it properly.
Basically the idea is to secure the scene to wait for the rescue team.
As a helo pilot, I would be very cautious as to intervene on the chopper, even if I knew how to fly it. A crash situation is a completely different than just starting/flying/shutting down the thing...
My 2 cents...

[jayteeto]

I wouldn't lose too much sleep over this one, the chances of you being at the scene of a crash, alone, on the day are millions to one!! Use your time to learn first aid generally, much more chance of a 'hero moment'.

[SASless]

The crashes I have been around were simple to confront....notify the Fire Brigade about the brush fire and suggest they notify the Coroner, Cops, and Aviation authority or comparable sources of assistance.

At the Raleigh NC airport years ago, a DC-9 over ran a C-172 on approach. The 172 got hung up in the landing gear of the 9....until the Wind Sock....the right wing sheared off the 172 and it did a vertical dive into the ground at about 150 knots. One big puff of flame and smoke and it was all over. Hovered over to the crash and checked the two occupants and confirmed the worst. Then took off and did an inflight check of the airliner and reported all looked well except for a fair sized hole in the belly and side where the 172 prop did some digging. The 9 landed safely.

Many years ago....watched a Chinook go inverted at 300 feet and crash with a slingload of howitzer ammo. No need hurrying to that one either.

Watched a mid-air between an Air Force FAC and a Cobra....Cobra went straight in from 1500 feet and the Air Force crew ejected.

[jessie13]

helopat, jr51xx- I do realise how the Black Hawk fuel system works (I'm a Black HawK Tech instructor) but what I was trying to saying is that the break away valves and the fuel vents did their job properly and during the recovery when the fuel cap was opened, the tank was pressurised due to temperature expansion in a sealed enviroment. I hope that clears it up.

[NickLappos]

The amazing thing about suction fuel systems is how easy it is to make them - just demand from the engine manufacturer that the engine pump be powerful enough to lift the fuel without a boost pump. Every Sikorsky model from the 1970's on has had suction fuel, and with great success. The S-70's, S76's, and S92 are all the same that way, and the effect on post crash safety is quite terrific. I do not know why no other manufacturer has chosen to make suction fuel systems standard!

[lup]

Check there is no chance of fire, strap myself in the Pax seat,hold my neck with a painfull expression on my face and wait for the para medics.

Then call one of the numbers on the telly that ask "have you had an accident"?, retire and enjoy myself!