Birdstrike

[XL319]

Hawk diverted to Durham Tees Valley after a bird strike over Barnard Castle. Thought to be a Hawk from 100sqn at Leeming. Crew ok

[higthepig]

Car stops at red traffic light, driver and passengers ok.

[XL319]

Idiot!!! Hardly a relative comparison:ugh:

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Now now ladies

Seems a bit odd that a hawk from Leeming would not go back there in favour of DTVA, which is only about 10-15 miles as the crow flies where there are nice shiney RAF fire engines, hawk engineers etc. Unless of course the donk stopped which might have decided it for them!

[Fox2long]

Hawk was a cabriolet model, Pilot with nav stude (with whom he could hardly communicate) chose nearest function on GPS DTVA was the nearest!!!

[orca]

Fox2long.

Many thanks for your posts, both of interest and utterly in keeping with the whole point and ethos of the forum. Sorry you had to pick up such a petulant and unnecessary first reply.

Regards,

orca.

[Runaway Gun]

Seems a bit odd that some members of the forum figure that the aircrew on board the emergency jet probably should have carried out different actions, and gone to different diversions, based on their own knowledge of the world right now, and not what was actually happening in that aircraft at that time.

DS, I hope that you don't run the investigation - because if you are I'm sure that you'd already have decided the outcome. :suspect:

[BluntM8]

Seems a bit odd that some members of the forum figure that the aircrew on board the emergency jet probably should have carried out different actions, and gone to different diversions, based on their own knowledge of the world right now, and not what was actually happening in that aircraft at that time.

A whole big part of flying (and especially flying training) is thinking through what you would do in a given scenario. Discussing it with others is even better...your mates idea might be much better but one you'd have never have thought of in a million years! I don't think that's odd at all.

DS, I hope that you don't run the investigation - because if you are I'm sure that you'd already have decided the outcome. :suspect:

Erm, that sounds like a bit of a dig to me, and maybe a bit unfair. Most people can separate idle speculation on an internet board with the deliberations of a BOI.

Blunty

[Runaway Gun]

Yeah, I bit too hard there I guess. It was a dig.

I'm just a bit annoyed when other crew criticise what the actual operators do, without necessarily knowing all the facts. There is a tendency for guys to say "Well, I wouldn't ave done whatever he did...", which I think is very unfair.

By all means discuss accidents, and learn from them, and prevent others making similar mistakes. But did this crew make a mistake? I don't know, and am not about to speculate. They got the jet down safely, even more importantly they got themselves down safely. Gold endorsement please.

[BluntM8]

Fair one, which raises the question: What would you have done?
Personally, I would have gone for the nearest available, civvy in this case. My thinking is that if you've had a birdstrike you don't really know what's broken, what's about to go and what is okay from inside the cockpit, so land it as soon as possible (as opposed to as soon as practicable, FRC geeks!). I have visions of trying to push the extra 10 miles, only to have a pannel come off at 5 miles and leap down an intake.
Of course, if the nav in the back bangs you out, it's all a bit accademic!
Blunty

[Runaway Gun]

I agree, hence the point of my post criticising Senor Sanchez.

[XL319]

As far as i'm aware the bird cracked or shattered the canopy in the back, so that's maybe why they chose the nearest.

Glad to see it created a sensible debate compared to the first reply.

[sense1]

The aircraft had been on a low level nav-ex when, during a right hand turn, they hit what seems to have been at least 2 birds. The canopy was shattered in both cockpits - blood and meat and feathers all over the blast screen and covered both crew - lots of mess in each cockpit.

I heard that the biggest problem they had was the unbearable noise in the cockpit after the canopy went and 420kts of wind hit them in the face! Communications obviously became a problem in the immediate aftermath - could hardly hear themselves speaking.

In what must have been an extremely frightening few minutes after the event - both crew members kept their cool and let the training do its magic! The stude in the back has a relatively small amount of experience on fast jets and he coped with the situation admirably. I imagine it would be tempting to pull the handle when all you can see is blood and guts (in this case the birds' blood and guts) where your pilot once was! Well done to them both.

P.S. At least the bird strike risk in North Yorkshire is a little lower now!


Sense1

[Looking4higher]

There is a similar incident here in Canada with a Hawk during a training flight. Happend during takeoff, Instructor and Stu had to eject. There is a 30sec or so video cut from the cockpit camera. Please check out the link provided.

Cheers.

http://www.patricksaviation.com/videos/Guest/287/

If the link doesn't work, go to the home page of patricksavaiton and search for "bird strike".

[West Coast]

"Idiot!!! Hardly a relative comparison"

No, but it was funny.

[PPRuNeUser0172]

Runaway Gob

If you re-read my post it was idle gossip on the likely seriousness about the incident which made the crew go to DTVA vice Leeming, look on a map at their proximity and you might understand why I made the comment.

Wasn't drawing conclusions or criticising in any way, shape or form

Who sneezed on your pasty?

DS

[Flap62]

My only concern (and without knowing full details, so no criticism - implied or otherwise) is the comment "chose nearest function on the GPS". There's just a hint of "well that's what the kit said so we did it" about that for me.

My concern is not for this crew or incident, as I say I don't know enough details, but someone please tell me we're not going down that path.

[Always_broken_in_wilts]

Come on Flaps, you have just had your sun roof kicked in your world is going to hell in a hand cart and you have a simple choice to make.......

Follow the kit or take a steer from the nav............it's a no brainer really:E

all spelling mistakes are "df" alcohol induced

[Fugazi1000]

A question from a civvie.

With regards to an earlier posting about the student keeping his head and not ejecting I am now wondering - If one of the crew chooses to eject, does this automatically eject the other?

I'm also guessing there must be some sort of 'phasing' to reduce the risk of both seats/crew affecting each other?

[Lone Kestrel]

For the Hawk it depends on where the Command Eject lever is. 100 Sqn, or rather the Nav Training Unit (as was the case in this incident it would appear), has had a couple of similar incidents to this in the past. The first one ended with the nav student ejecting the pilot because the Command Eject Lever was in both (as apposed to Rear) – the normal is position is ‘Both’ unless there is a non-aircrew passenger in the back seat.

The has been a great deal of discussion on the position of the Command Eject Lever in RAF FJ ac. I believe it is now left up to the Captain where he wants to put it, but for my money always have it 'Both' unless there is a non aircrew bod in the back seat.

There is phasing and also each seat is cantered off to one side.

[Razor61]

RAF jet is damaged in bird strike

An RAF jet was forced to make an emergency landing after its canopy was damaged in a bird strike.
The two-man Hawk T1A fighter jet landed safely at Durham Tees Valley Airport, after the incident above Barnard Castle, County Durham, on Tuesday.

The aircraft was on a routine training flight from its base at RAF Leeming in North Yorkshire.

Both crewmen were unhurt. Police helped to recover fragments of the canopy from fields in the Barnard Castle area.

An RAF spokeswoman said the jet's canopy suffered "considerable damage", but that the rest of the aircraft was undamaged.

A spokesman for Durham Police urged members of the public to report any remaining fragments, but not to touch them as they may been needed for a subsequent investigation into the incident.

He said some fragments of the canopy, which resemble a car windscreen, and measured up to 1ft in diameter, had been recovered so far.
(bbc.co.uk/news)

I saw on Teletext last night that some of the fragments came down in the streets of B.Castle...

[Fugazi1000]

Many thanks Lone Kestrel - a very complete reply.

[Colonal Mustard]

Fair one, which raises the question: What would you have done?
Personally, I would have gone for the nearest available, civvy in this case. My thinking is that if you've had a birdstrike you don't really know what's broken, what's about to go and what is okay from inside the cockpit, so land it as soon as possible (as opposed to as soon as practicable, FRC geeks!). I have visions of trying to push the extra 10 miles, only to have a pannel come off at 5 miles and leap down an intake.
Of course, if the nav in the back bangs you out, it's all a bit accademic!
Blunty


Banged out over the sea.......Thus getting my MB Tie...what a great story in the pub....

Well i was flying along at about!!!!!!..........:E

[foldingwings]

Voice of Reason Speaking

I appreciate the desire to discuss circumstance with regard to air accidents or incidents here on PPRuNe and I am grateful to those who have done so eloquently in the case of this Hawk incident and once some of the facts have come to light. However, I wish to sympathise with higthepig in that, whilst his retort was unnecessary, it did highlight the frustration that many of us feel with regard to the sensationalising of air incidents that routinely appear on PPRuNe.

On the face of it, XL319's initial post did nothing but mention a routine occurrence for aircraft operating at low level; it had the appearance of 'sensationalism' and a desire to be the first to post this 'earth-shattering news'. Only subsequently, have we unearthed the facts (as far as we know them; another gripe of mine about PPRuNe) which gives this thread any value.

So, my point:

When an incident occurs, let's not get carried away by our speed of response but more await the facts or, if these are known from the outset, post them initially.

Now, pompously (but not arrogantly) returning to my lunch.

foldy:=

[XL319]

It was a purposeful vague statement in order to create a wider discussion(this is a forum for open debate)!!! Seems like it worked bar one reply! I rest my case:ugh:

I wonder why so many forum users are hell bent on turning a thread into a slagging match about other people thoughts or posts!! Reading between the lines it seem's that you enjoy causing friction amongst members whilst hiding behind the illusion of a very well thought "constructive" comment.

[foldingwings]

It was a purposeful vague statement in order to create a wider discussion(this is a forum for open debate)!!! Seems like it worked bar one reply! I rest my case:ugh:
I wonder why so many forum users are hell bent on turning a thread into a slagging match about other people thoughts or posts!! Reading between the lines it seem's that you enjoy causing friction amongst members whilst hiding behind the illusion of a very well thought "constructive" comment.

XL319

That aimed at me? If so, no! No attempt to cause friction!

More the opposite actually; oil on troubled waters is the phrase I think!

I just get concerned when non-specific details about aircraft incidents are thrown on the page in order to invite wider discussion

Scant detail of the kind you posted originally was asking for a sarcastic response (and got it)!

Foldy

PS. Looking at your profile and your previous posts, despite your 'Serial Number' title, I conclude that you are not ex or active military, probably a 'spotter', possibly a wannabe and having seen the Hawk land wanted some gossip.

PPS. Am I right or wrong?

PPPS. After 38 posts you really ought to amend your profile so that we all know from what position you speak on this forum; you have provided no detail.

[XL319]

A spotter? That's the funniest thing u've said to me all day. It was good to know I provoked a reaction in the fact that you had to look at my previous posts. My previous post got to you more than i expected.

If your post is a sad excuse of dragging me into a slanging match then it hasn't worked. End of matter!!!

[foldingwings]

End of matter!!!


No it's not!

[VigilantPilot]

Don't really want to be drawn in, but in all honesty and irrespective of the discussion that has subsequently occured, my reaction when I read your initial post was exactly the same as higthepig's and I fully understand where foldingwings is coming from.

Especially when I reviewed other one liners you have posted:

"BMI from MME to LHR engine failed as it was taxiing towards the runway when the Engine failed. All ok "

[Gainesy]

Picture herehttp://www.thisisthenortheast.co.uk/display.var.891102.0.shattered_by_a_bird_at_500mph.php

[212man]

He's a Vulcan:confused:

[XL319]

The point was taken 10 posts back, its getting a little boring listening to the same thing time and time again. Thanks for pointing it out tho....

[boswell bear]

Hawk jockeys should be thankfull for any birds they get ;)

[Rotorbiggles]

"Last night, aviation experts and RAF officials praised the pilot and co-pilot for landing the plane as a 500mph wind screamed through the shattered cockpit."

500 mph on landing... musta floated like a bxstard....

:eek: