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scooter boy
23rd Aug 2006, 10:03
Last week I flew from Plymouth to Palma de Mallorca and back IFR in airways between FL090 and 130.
My aircraft has a service ceiling of FL200 (which I have never flown at - I usually choose 090 to 110 in order to minimise the need for oxygen) and if possible I try to dodge CBs by requesting 20 degrees left or right or clear the tops by requesting a level change.

However in both directions last week I ended up needing to penetrate very broad walls of cumulus cloud (too wide to route around) which were going from ground level up to well above my svc ceiling (too high to climb over). They were an unpleasant experience to say the least and I picked up significant ice and turbulence (I have TKS de-icing and my mooney is certified for flight into known icing conditions). Neither of these "fronts" had been predicted on the weather forecast and the en route controllers I spoke to did not have met radar available. The heavier high altitude traffic was all routing around it by requesting steers one way or the other - presumably by either being high enough to see the Wx more clearly or by virtue of onboard Wx radar. I had no idea about the intensity of the weather other than how much rain was hitting the windscreen and how bumpy it was.

The reason for this post is that my stormscope showed me little useful data in that all I got was an even spread of mild activity all around the aircraft and the outer limits of this activity were very exaggerated when I was within the CB - (it looked as though the Wx was going as far as my destination which it actually was not). Admittedly I wouldn't be here posting this message if I had encountered severe activity but it was bouncy enough for me to be unable to press the buttons on the panel without a few tries and holding straight and level without the autopilot would have been very tough - in fact new underpants were very nearly the order of the day.

Previously in other situations when crossing fronts the stormscope has been awash with lightning bolts in comparatively very mild weather with little convective activity (in both strike and cell modes).

I find the weather data presented to me in the cockpit from the stormscope is never anything like the images that the manufacturers show which usually demonstrate discrete cells of activity that one can keep clear of. All it seems to show is some electrical activity somewhere out there.

What are other people using? What else could I have done to find out the extent of the rough stuff and which course to request to get through it asap? I listen to the volmets so I knew the destinations were OK and that local airports were landable - is met radar available to european controllers?

My G1000 is able to accept data liked weather and I would have really like the ability to look at a superimposed weather radar image on both flights.

Does anyone know if this is in the pipeline in Europe?

:ouch:

IO540
23rd Aug 2006, 10:32
Sounds like you know what you are doing so this is just brief:

The only product I know of which offers in-flight weather radar is this one

http://www.moving-terrain.de/index_de.htm

which has a very substantial entry cost.

Otherwise there are some weather radar websites, best is the last one

http://www.buienradar.nl/home.aspx?r=.peter2000.co.uk&jaar=-3&soort=loop1uur
http://www.chmi.cz/OPERA/ (used to have weathr radar links but they have just been removed)
http://www.eumetnet.eu.org/
http://www.meteox.com/h.aspx?r=.peter2000.co.uk%2faviation%2flinks.html&jaar=-3&soort=loop1uur

Then there are "stormscope" sites, such as

http://www.blitzortung.de/index.php?mode=6&map=3&lang=e (download the java viewer)
http://www.sv2bzq.gr/hystory_weather/stormvue.html

and many more.

A stormscope (I have a wx500) will show nothing unless there are discharges. So a CU/TCU is unlikely to show unless it gets going properly.

It's best to use a website like

http://pages.unibas.ch/geo/mcr/3d/meteo/ (animated soundings)

to get an idea of forecast cloud tops and then file a flight plan above that. On the day, get the SigWX which indicates more cloud top data and indicates areas with vertical development. Plus TAFs, METARs etc all along the route which should show really dodgy stuff.

Obviously you need oxygen :)

scooter boy
23rd Aug 2006, 10:40
Thanks IO, I'll try those sites.
Do you fly with weather radar or data linked WX?
Anything to cut down on the brown underpant requirement.

SB

Wrong Stuff
23rd Aug 2006, 13:05
As you say, the best solution appears to be to either route over or under, remain visual and just keep out of the bu**ers. Other than that, I haven't found any panaceas either.

I did once watch a very useful DVD (I think a Richard Collins one) which gave some interesting examples of a stormscope in use. I'll see if I can find it and let you know which one. I've found that sometimes the stormscope does give the well defined storms you see in the examples, and then it can be very useful for strategy planning. Sometimes, though, it lights up like a christmas tree all around you, even when you're flying visually in some quite benign stuff. I think it can get confused by strong storms which lie outside its normal range.

I don't know about the rest of Europe, but I believe the London TMA radars specifically have the weather filtered out as much as they can.

If you're a member, I'd recommend posting this on the PPL/IR site. There are people who post there with lots of practical experience. If you're not a member, I'd thoroughly recommend joining.

scooter boy
23rd Aug 2006, 13:18
Wrong Stuff,
I am a PPL/IR member and will post this to their site.

The reason for my enquiry about ATC being able to see the Wx was that I have been vectored around the worst weather cells in the past in UK airspace and also have been given useful steers in the USA, even with details of the expected intensity to be encountered.

Thanks,
SB

IO540
23rd Aug 2006, 13:36
London Control has no weather radar whatsoever (according to them). The only way they know where there is bad weather is from lots of airliners asking for "30 degrees right" etc.

This isn't the USA :)

A stormscope is good in the sense that if it shows clusters of strikes, you really don't want to go there. But then one should plan the flight level so as to be in VMC - right up to close to the aircraft operating ceiling if necessary. Then you can avoid CBs visually.

Personally I would not fly in IMC, with CBs forecast, using the stormscope for CB avoidance.

cjboy
24th Aug 2006, 09:33
Perhaps I'm an old jaundiced cynic, but the only believable thing I've ever seen on a stormscope screen is the interference from the wingtip strobes, and a load of static discharge on landing. Wish my landings were so smooth that I could claim that to be of some use!! :O

IO540
24th Aug 2006, 09:43
cjboy

You need a new stormscope :)

And sort out the wingtip strobes. Lots of peoples' radios are inaudible because of whistling from the strobe inverter. I can't believe they are unaware of it.

cjboy
24th Aug 2006, 12:47
cjboy

You need a new stormscope :)

And sort out the wingtip strobes. Lots of peoples' radios are inaudible because of whistling from the strobe inverter. I can't believe they are unaware of it.

The same indications were present on two totally different aircraft, a Trinidad and a T303, and neither had audio interference from the strobes. I also did some flying in a Citation 2 which didn't show the strobes or the landing gear, but it never showed storms either! It was a while ago now, and I suppose things might have moved on, but I remain unwaveringly anti stormscope

IO540
24th Aug 2006, 13:40
Things have definitely moved on, I can confirm first hand.

Anyway, a WX500 costs about £3k or so while weather radar is a) not available to most sub-turbine singles and b) costs about £50k.

For the information value there is no contest.

ormus55
24th Aug 2006, 14:20
ive just reread richard collins book, the perfect flight.
hes a very strong advocate of the stormscope.

bearing in mind that the book is 18 yrs old.