Food For Thought For The Old And Bold

[markerboy]

Have recnetly seen the new fitness test levels. At least a complete level rise for most and approx level 7.5 for the 50-54 age group!

So, how is this going to further affect morale which has already plummeted tremedously. The cinical amongst us will just see this as a further way of reducing the number of RAF personnel, but I'm sure is something alot more serious (Career Push for some O).

When will somebody realise the REMFs are actually in charge of the Air Force.

:ugh: :=

[Jobza Guddun]

No doubt the 50-54 range will be doing more than the youngest RAFW.

Wouldn't be so bothered about it if I didn't have to do the training all in my own time-probably unlike the apology who makes these decisions.

JG

[Captain Kirk]

Markerboy,

The AFT to date has set a pathetically low standard - the only embarrassment is that some pers still fail. The answer is to address the fitness and motivation of the failures - not lower the standard. Raising the bar is a step in the right direction for a combat service - I thought you would agree given your disdain of REMFs (though I challenge you to identify them by branch in the current climate).

Perhaps if recruits had to genuinely strive to achieve a standard, rather than passing out without ever having met an embarrassingly low one, then they would be proud of their achievement and maintain a level of fitness - vice leaving training and adopting a sedentary lifestyle based upon chips; no wonder the AFT then becomes a problem. Based on my experience, it will not be the 50-54 age bracket that provide the bulk of any failures.

And dear boy - use a spellchecker!:rolleyes:

[SASless]

Chairborne Troopers have always been in charge....no matter which military you refer to.:(

[Pontius Navigator]

Do the Abbey Wood warriors do the tests too?

The other 'out' is to be overweight and unable and unfit to do the fit test.

[brickhistory]

And while it doesn't help your RAF situation, for any comfort, the USAF has had the same low standards that most of us struggle to pass due to not giving exercise the time it should.

Our standards went up a couple of years past, still the lowest (and brunt of most jokes in the DoD) of any service, but as the years whizz by, I am glad that I am the PT monitor/test giver for my little group! :ok:

[It's Not Working]

As a 50+ year old I take my fitness seriously and managed to give myself a hernia while on the rowing maching. 'No problem,' thinks I, 'the medics will sort me out.' How wrong can you get? Four months to get an appointment at my local hospital, another 5 months (minimum) to have it fixed leaving me in daily discomfort since Feb. At the time I thought private medical insurance was a waste of money - no longer.

Yes personal fitness is a must but so is a standard of medical care that no longer exists. God help those getting hurt under training or on ops.

<Oops, almost had a rant there - sorry>

[BEagle]

It must be such fun to be in the RAF these days - supreme grasp of the non-essential seems to be the over-riding order of the day.

I don't recall the oldies pulling anything less than their weight when I was on my first tour - and a happy and instructive bunch they were too! Nor did they keel over with heart attacks every few minutes.

Whilst I avoided the bolleaux of the utterly stupid and totally pointless jockstrapping test as far as was reasonably possible after it came in, when I PVR'd at the age of 52 I breezed the RAFFT and discharge bollock-fondling to make sure that no-one could accuse me of being unable to meet the contemporary requirements. Nonsense though they undoubtedly were.

Saw a documentary on the 1960s V-force not so long ago. How things were more civilised back then..... And, funnily enough, 50 year olds weren't expected to behave like a bunch of labourers from the SWO's working party....

[Skeleton]

They can raise the bar all they want, until they do something about the people that fail it will remain a meaningless waste of time.

By do something I would suggest extra PT until they can pass. If they still can't pass then surely there unfit to carry out there duties and should be dismissed. They won't do that though because they have invested lots of the queen's shillings in you.

Writing on a ACR he did not pass his fitness test but showed a positive attitude because he actually attended, does nothing and is the easy way out.

[16 blades]

there unfit to carry out there duties
It depends on what their duties are. You do not need a high degree of physical fitness to fly an aircraft - it is a sedentary job. In 20 years I have never been required to run anywhere in the performance of my duties - I've never even been required to walk very far - transport takes me to and from the aircraft.

Obviously spelling isn't part of your duties. But at least you can run 5 miles - well done.

16B

[RAF_Techie101]

Anyone know what the new standards are for the individual age groups...?

[Skeleton]

Yawn 16B :)

Surly u hav beter thiks to do with your tim?

[Pontius Navigator]

Back in the 50s Charles Mawghan of the London-Paris air race used to train by jumping from his quarter bedroom and doing pressups etc on the front lawn.

In 64, as OC IX, he ordered the RCAF 5X Plan. They arrived at one of the many secret Lincolnshire airbases where their importance in the maintenance of morale was recognised and they were locked up securely and subsequently shredded.

By about 1973, the C Med O wrote and said aircrew were not fit enough. By now Charlie was COS and instituted a quarterly 1 1/2 miles run but only for aircrew.

There was a sporadic takeup however 18Gp, realising that its aircrew needed to be fit to survive the rigours of combat etc were most enthusiastic. I did the run once, passed, half the crew failed, and as suggested earlier nothing happened.

For the next couple of years I submitted a signed list of times to the PEd staff every quarter as no one was allowed leave until they took their test. I didn't cheat. Anyone who failed the first test always failed the other tests albeit I would shorten their times if they looked fitterand lenghten them if they had got fatter :) .

Unlike Beags I did not have that end of service medical; anyway I needed a fail to get my 'unfit' bonus which I duly got thanks to the RBL. - Pass my ear trumpet and walking sticks.

[BEagle]

Back in the late 70s or early 80s, some young thruster ordained that all aircrew of a certain large aeroplane squadron based not far from Burford were to complete X laps of the sports field.

Having first elicited what a sports field was and, more importantly, where it was, the old gents duly turned up. Complete with overcoats, dogs, walking sticks, the odd hip flask and pipe of tobacco. Then strolled at a leisurely pace, as befits a gentleman, for the requisite number of laps. It took all morning, but the thrusting racing snake who had come up with the idea had to stand and shiver in his jockstrapping kit whilst the old buggers slowly strolled about. "Come on chaps, let's run for a bit" was duly greeted with looks of astonishment and "Dear me, what an appalling notion. How very undignified!"

[Mr C Hinecap]

We are now a different air force and that change will only continue. We will never operate at our MOBs again - we will train there then mount from there and do our stuff elsewhere.
We will operate in hostile environments and further from the 5* than I find comfortable, but it is happening and will perpetuate. We therefore need to be a fitter force to cope with the additional hardships operating in somewhere crappy at 50 dec C brings. We do not need the chubby wheezy Chief on the pan there - we need someone who can hold it together. In many ways, we are operating more like the Army, especially with the cycle EAWs brings.
None of this should detract from the lack of ability to put PT into the weekly programme and do it properly!

[Cpt_Pugwash]

PN, re your #5,

Yes, the bleep tests etc. are held monthly in the ABW sports hall, Thursdays between 11 and 12.

[South Bound]

It depends on what their duties are. You do not need a high degree of physical fitness to fly an aircraft - it is a sedentary job. In 20 years I have never been required to run anywhere in the performance of my duties - I've never even been required to walk very far - transport takes me to and from the aircraft.
16B

Absolutely stunned by that one, do hope there is a certain amount of tongue-in-check about it. Don't need to be fit to fly it, rather you need to be fit to survive and escape and evade if you have to put it on the ground. You are an expensive asset and you are required to maintain yourself in teh best possible shape so that the taxpayer stands every chance of getting you back if the worst happens. :ugh:

As to the pathetically low standards, they were set against predicted failure rates that the numbers of RAF PTIs could offer remedial training. Unsure where the influx of new PTIs has come from to deal with increased failures of both RAFFT and OFT.

[Pontius Navigator]

We are now a different air force and that change will only continue. We will never operate at our MOBs again - we will train there then mount from there and do our stuff elsewhere.
We will operate in hostile environments and further from the 5* than I find comfortable, but it is happening and will perpetuate. We therefore need to be a fitter force to cope with the additional hardships operating in somewhere crappy at 50 dec C brings. We do not need the chubby wheezy Chief on the pan there - we need someone who can hold it together.

Agree with some of this post but NOT 'We are now a different air force'. In the 50s and 60s aircrew were deployed to the Far East and regularly came down in the jungle. Rescue could be a week or two.

In the 70s onward the Harrier Force did not operate from MOB.

In FI in 82 the RAF groundcrews did not sit in an nice secure MOB during the campaign.

'Fit to Survive' was written in 1974 or thereabouts. The directive came down from on high but, as BEags said there was absolutely no incentive or interest at the bottom, or even half-way down.

For over 30 years we needed to be fit but their airships never grasped the nettle. Now we still have overfed, overweight, unfit SNCOs but doing a 'simple' annual test is no substitute for actually being continually fit.

It really all went down the tube when the V-Force dropped Wednesday after noon sports because it interfered with the flying programme and the chinagraph became king.

The problem is how to turn it around. It is 'easy' with new recruits, you set the standard as part of their employment and then make them stick at it. With the old sweats OTOH there is a proceedure but is would take well over a year to retire someone who did nothing to get fit and probably impossible if someone 'makes an effort' by turning up and failing.

It could take another 20 years before the shape of the air force changes.

[Mr C Hinecap]

OK - we area different air force to the one which emerged blinking from the HAS at the end of the Cold War.

There is no way I was comparing to the earlier days of the NEAF etc. There are few enough still serving who can remember those days. My boss who retired this yr was the last Boy Entrant still serving, so I have an appreciation of what tha RAF was like over 40 yrs ago. Harrier & rotary were always special, but they have also changed. It still does not take away the need to bring fitness into the daily effort - taking new recruits who never did much before, training them, then putting them with old sweats who can't find time in the day is still not going to work.

[neilmac]

Im in a job which unable to get away for circuits, OFT training which all are in work time generally, my lunchtime is 45 mins so cant do that circuits. Struggle to do fitness test, little sprinting not really my thing(5ft nowt lol). Yet always came up trumps for dets whether Bosnia or Iraq, didnt find them particular tasking for fitness even in the 50 degrees C of Iraq. So after 19 years if they chose to kick me out due to say failing a test I would be a peeved, though maybe its a good way for MOD to save money from my pension! .............damn just given them the idea!

[jindabyne]

Not an original view I know, but I reached that point long ago when if the need arose from guilt to perform some form of physical exercise, I would go and lie down until the feeling wore off. Making sure of pulling copious G's each day was one way of strengthening the old ticker. Recently in a rash moment I bought a bike in order to convince myself that this would provide some increased level of fitness to and from the pub - having now fallen off twice on the return leg, I am considering making more use of the bus pass.

Puddy Catt had it about right.

[BEagle]

He did indeed!

But once jumped (yes, really!) off the steps after met brief at Brawdy and sprained his ankle. "That'll teach me to commit bloody sport", he boomed.

[Rossian]

I think what really got up one's nose was the sanctimoniousness of those administering the process. A navigator chap of my acquaintance once came in on a stand down to comply with bicycle test for the elderly amongst us. He arrived in the gear in which he'd cycled the 5 miles from home to the Gym ie brogues, cavalry twills and a Barbour jacket of suitably worn appearance. Leapt onto bike and was about to get going when the PTI asked why he hadn't changed. "No need " says our man and proceeds to pedal furiously to the point where the PTI said he had exceeded the requirements and now MUST stop as he (PTI) could no longer accept "resposibility " for "what might happen". He (PTI) then announced he was going to fail our man, NOT because he was "unfit" but that he wasn't demonstrating the "correct attitude" to the whole testing process.
One also became P***ed off latterly by being unable to find people at work because they were "at the gym" "circuits" "five-a-side " "out for a run" all of which were deemed suitable reasons for absence from one's job space.
The Ancient (and still fit) Mariner

[WhiteOvies]

Not intending to upset people but the RAF seems a bit behind the drag curve on this issue. If the brass want you to stay fit, they should allow an opportunity, during the working day, to provide it.
The RN went through this a while back and came back with the mandatory requirement of:

A minimum of 1 hr per week(for RN, 3 hrs for RM) in working hours, for physical training

The oppurtunity to participate in organised sport or challenging recreational activities for 2 1/2 hrs per week, during standard working hours.

Time in working hours for physical training is the Command contribution to fitness preparation and maintenance as a constituent element of personal Operational Capability.

I know not everyone has the oppurtunity to take this up but it showed the buy in from the highest level that people ought to eat less pies and do more phys. A pass or fail result to the fitness test is also mandated on the annual report, with reasons in the comments if it is a fail. Maybe the RAF should follow suit with something similar (just don't tell the brass that the Navy did it first!)

[glum]

And while we're at it, how about we bring back some training for the annual CCS instead of hoping people read the notes, and setting the tick test so easy that you'll pass it even if you can't be bothered to gen up?

I remember when it was a 3 day course, which INSTRUCTED attendees in the art of chem warefare, field craft, first aid etc.

Being able to fill bags with sand and crawl under barbed wire whilst wearing a flak jacket is sod all use to a non pongo who's mate has just had a mishap and is in need of a bit of medical attention.

[charliegolf]

As one who was a PE teacher prior to my RAF days, I can hardly whinge about people wanting their workforce to be fit and active.

However, a strong memory of squadron life in Germany was of how much time off the 'serious' jockstrappers had due to sports injuries. Funny old world innit?

CG

Oh, and the 'We seek afar' boys always dicked the zoomies in the annual aircrew swimming race!

[South Bound]

I still want to know how they think they are going be be able to train some of our shorter (was going to say vertically challenged but am fed up with being PC) colleagues to lift a fairly heavy box onto a platform of a fixed height - when they can barely reach it.

I don't understand the concept - if they want a strength test, fine, there are lots of ways of measuring strength, but this test is meant to simulate loading a 4-tonner. Isn't that why we are all encouraged to use our heads? Surely those unable to reach the tailgate would carry the boxes to the vehicle for the taller person to load, or be on the vehicle to stack them? They are still pulling their weight. God forbid we allowed them to use their initiative and stand on one of the boxes so they could reach! IIRC, didn't the Gurkhas struggle with the test and then just cheat by having one of their mates crouch on the floor as a step? Initiative, like it!

[BEagle]

Why would an officer be loading 4-tonners?

[South Bound]

Abso-bloody-lutely

[charliegolf]

Get his or her wallet home?

Sorry, had to.

CG

[South Bound]

Good point, more push-ups required, off down the gym now!

[Gericault]

Puddy Catt had it about right.

So what happened to Puddy when the fog finally rolled in for the last time at Brawdy? I've been down to Little Haven a couple of tmes but he wasn't in his usual corner of the pub.

[Pontius Navigator]

OK - we are a different air force to the one which emerged blinking from the HAS at the end of the Cold War.
There is no way I was comparing to the earlier days of the NEAF etc.

I was trying to suggest that nothing has actually changed in 40 or more years. We have always needed fit although fat works well in survival if not in evasion.

Mind you a sleek well fed member of eating command might 'slip' unobserved amongst the well fed when a lean mean racing snake might stand out.

No, as alluded to earlier, there has never been any top down committment to actually getting people fit. True modern fitness suites proliferate but these are invariably intended for off-duty and not as duty. The 'lunchtime' weekly fitness sessions in the gym are again a poor substitute. Lunchtime is for LUNCH not gym. I am mandated to take a minimum 20 minutes LUNCH break but no more than one hour. OK I have no fitness requirement now but where that one hour lunch break is available to a serviceman it is only long enough to do one thing or the other.

They want fit, they should train fit and it should not be a duty add-on with a session from 7.30 to 8 but properly scheduled. Then we could learn to stretch properly and avoid overstretch :)

[airborne_artist]

We have always needed fit although fat works well in survival if not in evasion.

Two guys on my Aircrew Combat Survival course stand out:

#1 - Cheerfull, chubby chappie (and a PPruner) - was carrying about 2 stone more than needed. Laughed his way through the cold, damp week in Feb., and lost about 20 lbs.

#2 - Lean racing snake, liked XC running and rock climbing. Got hypothermia on night 2, not at all a happy bunny 'til he was back holding a beer.

I suspect that if we'd been bounced by the Hunter Force on night 2 then #2 would have been in the pen long before #1.

Moral - put on weight before any likely deployment/conflict.

[stillin1]

If you can not pass the 50+ fitness test you really do have to question your fitness for use as the politicos say, it is pretty easy after all!:p

[Krystal n chips]

Back in the "different Air Force " days, late 70's, Abingdon:ok: had a brief flirtation with the idea of compulsory running. The idea had one slight flaw however when it came to the FRS --or 71MU whichever term you prefer--as we were scattered across the UK and thus unable to attend on the designated Friday--the names being kindly published in advance thus allowing the troops to be stuck in traffic etc, etc. Those on base however, duly complied and er, headed for the end of the run which was a well known hostelry not a million miles from the main gate--pointing out that no specific start / finish point had been designated in the first place ! :E

The really disturbing bit however, and here the mindset never changes it seems, was that some:mad: bluntie had diligently gone through the 1771's and ascertained when the troops were back on base---in theory shall we say ;) This did cause the odd cash flow problem for a while of course, but the running bit at least was quietly dropped----pdq !.

[Pontius Navigator]

#1 - Cheerfull, chubby chappie (and a PPruner) - was carrying about 2 stone more than needed. Laughed his way through the cold, damp week in Feb., and lost about 20 lbs.


I hope you have fully recovered and the weight loss was not permanent.:}

[airborne_artist]

I hope you have fully recovered and the weight loss was not permanent.

He did, and is now serving in the RAF, would you believe, despite having started out in the Dark Blue.

[Toddington Ted]

He did, and is now serving in the RAF, would you believe, despite having started out in the Dark Blue.

Indeed! I do regret that the weight loss was not permanent and I'm still carrying 2 stone more than I should but I have no difficulty with the current RAFFT; as for the proposed new one, we'll wait and see (as I'm over 50 I trust they won't be too hard on me!) To be honest I'm more concerned about the health aspect than the fitness as such these days:ok:

[Pontius Navigator]

Ted, at least you can't be like the boomer crews I saw once. They were either wearing kapok bouyancy suits or someone had sprayed their shirts on.

[Dundiggin']

CHinecap.........a slight correction to your post; your Boss wasn't the last Boy Entrant to serve - I was a Boy Entrant and I'm still here - albeit as an Auxie and still doin' the biz.........

BTW over 50's are exempt the fitness test - certainly in my neck of the woods and a bloody sensible idea too!! I don't need to prove to the system that I can survive or do the job properly by jockstrapping my way round any fields - personal pride & adrenalin are wonderful things! :p

[LateArmLive]

Just because 16 blades has never had to run to his aircraft doesn't mean that others don't. I have also seen plenty of officers loading 4 tonners and carrying out plenty of hard physical graft on ops. If an officer can't pass his or her fitness test without a valid medical reason he or she should be discharged. What kind of example are we setting to the lads if those in charge can't be bothered to keep fit in a fighting force?

It's a sad indication of the way society as a whole is going, how many percent of the UK population is medically obese these days? Pretty sickening. :yuk:

[Training Risky]

I can't think of many aircraft types to which you get wheels to deliver you to the cab... all except for the golden-ticket, easy livin' AT fleet :=

[airborne_artist]

There are numerous situations where fit to serve may need you to be fitter than fit to do your primary duty.

In the RN the most obvious was fighting a fire/damage control. No 999 on the briny.

For aircrew I'd suggest that E&E in a warzone needs pretty high levels of fitness. - fat/unfit and in the bag with electrodes on your b@lls, or fit and picked up by CSAR - :E

[Antelope]

I don't disagree with the fact that they're changing the fitness test levels as I've personally never found it that taxing and you can generally spot the people that are going to have trouble, and undoubtly be declared unfit for ops anyway should the time arise. I do find the OFT pointless however.

My point really is that they also need to address the other factors around the issue, the removal, some time ago, of Wednesday afternoon PT being one. For a Force that needs to be fit time should be provided during working hours for training to be completed.

Also I can't speak for all bases but the Aircrew Feeder where I am serves up stuff of the category Jamie Oliver tried to get banned from schools and should you want say lettuce you're almost charged by the leaf (different but connected debate I know). Meals in the Mess aren't to dissimilar either. Not exactly complimentary to a healthy lifestyle.

My point is until they address the issue as a whole, fitness training, time availabilty, diet, etc I can't see much changing.

Ant

[ShyTorque]

There are numerous situations where fit to serve may need you to be fitter than fit to do your primary duty.
In the RN the most obvious was fighting a fire/damage control. No 999 on the briny.
For aircrew I'd suggest that E&E in a warzone needs pretty high levels of fitness. - fat/unfit and in the bag with electrodes on your b@lls, or fit and picked up by CSAR - :E

If only it was that simple... E & E is much more than a running race! :hmm:

[airborne_artist]

ST

Agreed, the cunning of the fox is also required to evade successfully, but it helps if you can use both speed and wit. Also helps if you are fit when you get into TQ.

[Kitbag]

AA

I think you have a very valid point, if you don't have effective CSAR does that mean you can stay fat and unfit?

[Mmmmnice]

nice to see a familiar buoy again - with all the usual suspects going around it!
frankly - if the prospect of just thinking about doing such a low level fitness test gets one sweaty, perhaps it's time to leave the pointy end of the military. on the other hand, if there is a clutch of fatties on hand when we go downbird; then there will be something for the angry villagers with pitchforks to chase around. either way i will make other arrangements and be welcome for the smokescreen. but i guess this whole debate is being had by folks who don't have to worry about such trivia on a day-to-day basis - whatever........

[Mead Pusher]

Interestingly, one of the most common complaints from recruits about basic training at Halton is that they get told to eat healthily in their health and fitness lessons, but the food in the Mess is really unhealthy, so they can't!

I'm not saying that there is any excuse for failing the basic fitness test - there isn't - but we could do better in supporting people, as has been said before.

[BellEndBob]

I am staggered by the number of fat recruits we are getting, both Officer and troops. The training machine seems to have gone soft, lots of Powerpoint presentations on healthy eating etc but very little sweat. A significant number of our LACs have never passed a fitness test at all and yet still graduate.
When I went through Cranwell I was given hell for being about half a stone overweight. :eek:
It has taken me 25 years of hard slog to become a plump weazy git:p I still pass my fitness test with ease though (beep not bike:= ) but am amazed at the number of teenagers and those in their early 20's who drop out, some at the very early stages. The PTI said that the current stats show a 65% failure rate in that age group.
I agree with earlier posters who say we need a grown up approach. PT etc should be part of the working routine. If not, then things will remain the same. I remember, as a Flight Commander, trying to introduce Wednesday afternoon sports a few years back. I was called in by my boss who said I obviously had too much manpower and invited me to submit an amendment to my LUE so that we could get rid of the excess. Either that, he said, or you are all not working hard enough. With attitudes like that, we are on a hiding to nothing.

[c17age]

AA
I'd like you to see you tell Mr Mc and the boys they were fat/ unfit as they unfortunately ended up with the sparky nads treatment. A good coms kit is as essential i suppose. Run around all you like but you cann't beat a radio to get out of the poo.

[snowball1]

And while it doesn't help your RAF situation, for any comfort, the USAF has had the same low standards that most of us struggle to pass due to not giving exercise the time it should.

Our standards went up a couple of years past, still the lowest (and brunt of most jokes in the DoD) of any service, but as the years whizz by, I am glad that I am the PT monitor/test giver for my little group! :ok:

RAF bleep test partly takes its levels from the usaf version.

[airborne_artist]

c17age - Mr McN and I wore the same cap badge. The reason he and his patrol got caught is because the regt had forgotten the lessons of the regt's founders in 1942. Putting lads on foot on the ground in the wide open spaces of the Iraqi desert was asking for trouble. The later, vehicle mounted, patrols had far fewer problems.

I didn't say that fit people don't get captured, because they do, but unfit/fat people are more likely to get captured first/sooner. McN evaded capture for a long time, you will recall. A few of hours of freedom might be all it needs for a CSAR task to be successful.

[Vim_Fuego]

NEW FITNESS TEST SCORES
MALES OLD NEW
17-24 9-10 9-10
25-29 8-10 9-10
30-34 8-03 9-04
35-39 7-04 8-09
40-44 6-01 8-03
45-49 5-01 7-07
50+ N/A N/A

FEMALES OLD NEW
17-24 6-01 7-02
25-29 5-06 7-02
30-34 5-03 6-08
35-39 4-07 6-04
40-44 4-03 5-08
45-49 3-09 5-04
50+ N/A N/A

These could be them......WEF from April 07

[Could be the last?]

The only incentive to get some of the wardodgers deployed is to remove the X-Factor, because if they haven't got the motivation to pass the test then they don't deserve it. If they haven't sorted it out in 12 months and there is no valid medical reason then they should then be discharged.

Questions:=

[BEagle]

What colour is the sky on your planet?

[Vim_Fuego]

It should be noted that the highest level a female has to achieve...and this could be a 17 year old from the Halton depot. or a slightly older version from Sleaford tech is 7.02.....I type again 7.02.

There's equality for you...Even the boy Hawkins is in with a shout at that level...

[evilroy]

I have to admit, it is pleasant to be getting old uniforms out the closet because my newer ones are now too big.

For my routine, I work through lunch and then spend the last hour of the day at the gym. I figure that if fitness is a service requirement, then it should be done on service time.

Actually, I'm looking forward to when I turn 45 so I can move into a lower PFT bracket! I really do hate it; my idea of hard work is walking to the fridge for another can. There are only two reasons for physical exertion IMO: lovemaking, and running away from nasty situations.

:ok:

[Antique Driver]

NEW FITNESS TEST SCORES
MALES OLD NEW
17-24 9-10 9-10
25-29 8-10 9-10
30-34 8-03 9-04
35-39 7-04 8-09
40-44 6-01 8-03
45-49 5-01 7-07
50+ N/A N/A

FEMALES OLD NEW
17-24 6-01 7-02
25-29 5-06 7-02
30-34 5-03 6-08
35-39 4-07 6-04
40-44 4-03 5-08
45-49 3-09 5-04
50+ N/A N/A

In these days of equailty why should I have to reach level 8-09 when the useless bird at the navs desk on my flightdeck only has to reach 6-04. We're on the same aircraft in the same theatre:mad:

[Mad_Mark]

In these days of equailty why should I have to reach level 8-09 when the useless bird at the navs desk on my flightdeck only has to reach 6-04. We're on the same aircraft in the same theatre:mad:

There lies the problem with all those that say its all about being fit to do your job or deploy. Why should a 49 year old male have to run more lengths than a 17 year old female to do the same job?

I also know of a few peolpe that struggle or even fail their beep test, though pass the sit-ups and press-ups with flying colours, simply because they are not runners. Yet they have still deployed many times to the sand pit and been more than capable of doing their job out there.

MadMark!!! :mad:

[evilroy]

We have just introduced the beep test as an alternative to the 2.4km run or the swim. People say the beep test is a doddle, but one PTI reckons it's actually quite hard..:hmm:

[enginesuck]

Im a bloater (seriously) i passed the fitness test but have failed in the past, and when i do pass its a struggle. I can however run 5k at a steady pace no problem. I can deploy and work 24 hour shifts, lift big bits of engine on my shoulder and fit them to the a/c in 50 degree heat.

What does 9-10 on a shuttle run prove??? Lets get these racing snakes lifting a C.S.D.U onto a spey in the desert.:cool:

[buoy15]

Know of 5 people who've killed themselves trying to keep fit at lunchtime over the last 5 years - One was an RAF Squash champion!

Just before I retired, my AFT was reduced to walking a length of the Gym in about 20 mins to meet the bleep test - bit of a joke!

Average fit people run 100 mtrs in 30 secs and look to get the heartrate back to normal in 1 min (68), your fit! - the Canadian, Johnson, who ran 100m in 9.2 secs and was still breathing through his nose at the finish was accused of hanging back for the semi-final!

[akula]

Looking at the new levels through a slightly cynical eye would lead me to believe the Air Force is looking shot of all the over 35's. The level increases seem to be targeted in a precise manner with a sliding scale incrementing the ammount of change as you get older. It seems a bit odd, that overnight, a 39 year old will expected to be able to achieve the same(OK 1 shuttle less) level as a 25 year old whipper snapper on the current system:suspect: :suspect:

ALWAYS assume NEVER check

[NoseGunner]

Remember

1. Passing the RAFFT has nothing to do with being able to do your job.
If you really want to argue the ridiculous E&E bit then you could equally argue that all aircrew should be fat because if you bang out into the sea survival times are much higher - and that is much more likely than running a mile 30 secs quicker saving you!

2. Sexual equality does not mean having the same pass scores for male and female.

3. You cannot lose the x-factor just because you fail the RAFFT.

4. Wg Cdrs and above don't have to take the RAFFT (they can if they want to).


Don't get me wrong - I think a basic level of fitness is important, but some people need to take a deep breath, a step back and a reality pill (if you can do all 3 at once!)

[Rev I. Tin]

Gents,

I'm sorry, not taking the p*ss. I just don't know, but could anyone explain in small words why a 49 year old male does more than a 17 year old female.

Is a 17 year old female's heart/lung aerobic fitness capacity, combined with a lower body weight, really worse than a 49 year old male's?

Most grateful for a sensible reply.

Cheers

[cooheed]

Unsure as to why a 49 year old bloke has to go further than a 17 year old bird however, but their standards are lower for valid physiological reasons. Their hearts are on average 10% smaller than a blokes so have to work harder even if they are slightly lighter, haemoglobin levels are around 11% lower so less O2 being carried and they are, in general, a lot shorter than blokes so they need to make more strides to cover the same distance. So in effect, they have to work as hard as a bloke to achieve a lower standard. And no, I'm not a woman or a PTI!

[Rev I. Tin]

Cheers for the explanation.
I suppose one is buggered if one is a small male, or indeed a distinct advantage if one is a tall female, with a big heart and lungs (and dare I say it, big hands, strange voice and an adam's apple:E )

[Climebear]

4. Wg Cdrs and above don't have to take the RAFFT (they can if they want to).

Yes they do - I think your confusing this with the requirement for CCS. Although they have to undertake CCS if they have a deployable role or, indeed, if they believe that part of leadership is the ability to set an example (yes I know that it is a very big 'if they believe').

[NoseGunner]

Apologies I stand corrected.

[ORAC]

Australian Heavy Infantry....

Torygraph: Australian army gets heavier infantry
By Nick Squires in Sydney

The image of the lean, bronzed Australian infantry "digger" may require a radical update after the Australian army announced plans yesterday to accept overweight, asthmatic recruits to address an acute shortage of soldiers.

Former drug users and the middle-aged are also likely to be recruited as entry requirements are drastically lowered.

The new criteria have prompted jokes about the infantry, which earned its laurels at Gallipoli and Tobruk, turning into a Dad's Army of the old, unfit and infirm.

"Sure, some people might be a bit overweight, but we're good at getting people fit and taking the weight off them," said Lieu Gen Peter Leahy, the head of the army........

People in their 40s and 50s may be employed in non-combat areas.

[cooheed]

Cheers for the explanation.
I suppose one is buggered if one is a small male, or indeed a distinct advantage if one is a tall female, with a big heart and lungs (and dare I say it, big hands, strange voice and an adam's apple:E )

A small male will still have a higher VO2 Max and a tall female (albeit with big hands and an adams apple) will still have a haemoglobin defecit due to a lack of testosterone :)