FAA airmans certificate

[gcolyer]

Some not so good news if you want to get an FAA license based on your JAA license. This is an email sent to me from the person who issued my FAA license. I have obviously X'd out numbers.

Hi Gary!!
The info that I provided to you when you called was that OKC "issued" the
permanent certificate on XXXXXXXX and when the date shows up in our
database, all requirements for that certificate have been met and the
certificate is sent. I do not know why you have not yet received it but I
suggest that you contact Airman Certification Branch in OKC 405-954-3261 -
ask for an examiner and give them the exact date of issue on the temporary
(XXXXXXXX). It showed up in the database as being issued by OKC on
XXXXXXXX. Your temporary is good for120 days (until XXXXXXXX).

If you know of anyone who is considering obtaining a US Certificate on the
basis of their foreign license, please let them know that there will be no
appointments available until further notice.

You can call me at the number below if you need any further information or
help. I will be in the office this week from 6:30AM-4PM Monday-Thursday!
Best regards!!
Colleen M. McGrady
Aviation Safety Technician
Operations
XXX-XXX-XXXX

[S-Works]

Which FDO was that? Friend of mine is going to North Perry next week and had no problem with the Fort Lauderdale FDO.

[gcolyer]

The FDO is use is Albany N.Y

The stop issue is because of the recent scare. You can verfiy this with Oklahoma (HQ for Airman Certification)

This is bad news if you want to fly for fun in the US on your JAA license. basically you be able to unless you only want to fly as student.

I am glad i have my FAA ticket as well. I fly a lot in the US.

[IO540]

I would always recommend doing a standalone FAA PPL to anyone working towards the FAA IR (the most common reason for an FAA PPL in the first place).

One can knock off both in the same load of training in the USA. The PPL should only take a day or two.

You can fly a G-reg worldwide on an FAA PPL, and you can let all the UK licenses/ratings/medicals lapse.

However, I wonder if people with existing piggyback PPLs are affected by this. That would be very bad news!

[MichaelJP59]

Maybe it's to do with the increased security for FAA offices causing scheduling problems for non-essential work.

http://www.faa.gov/news/updates/security_increase/

Can't see why the current "plot" would have anything to do with JAA/FAA airmen certification issues.

[dublinpilot]

I would always recommend doing a standalone FAA PPL to anyone working towards the FAA IR (the most common reason for an FAA PPL in the first place).


IO,

I'd suspect that simply being able to rent something in the USA would be a more common reason for getting an FAA PPL in the US, rather than working towards an FAA IR.

dp

[gcolyer]

Thats exactly why i have an FAA PPL based on my JAA PPL.

[Keygrip]

Now - wouldn't that put the cat amongst the pigeons!!

Imagine - if the FAA decide that they are going to ignore international agreed principles and not allow a European to fly in Federal airspace with an ICAO licence - then it would seem fit that all those flying in Europe, on an FAA PPL (having let all the medicals, ratings etc. expire), could be grounded when Europe decides not to accept the now non-reciprocal arrangement, too.

[IO540]

After all IO540 suggests that a full FAA PPL can be done in a weekend based upon a JAR license- so why not the reverse to get a Euro license

A standalone FAA PPL can be done in a weekend if

- you sit and pass the ground exam beforehand (a few months' study)
- you get the FAA medical beforehand
- you meet all the FAA training requirements (which include various bits not done under JAA, night x/c flying in particular)

In the context I was writing in, i.e. doing an FAA IR, it will only take an existing experienced pilot a couple of days in the USA to sort out the PPL.

To do an FAA PPL from scratch is just as hard, possibly harder, than to do a JAA PPL. IMHO the flying requirements under FAA are a bit harder.

it is not in the FAA's interests to be responsible for recording and monitoring non US residents/citizens certificates

Since they never expire, this is not exactly hardship for the FAA.

There is more to this than the view of some FAA official. Politics comes into it heavily. Maintenance of the FAA scene is a component in US foreign policy and overseas goodwill and influence. It's like the "kick out all N-reg planes from the UK" thing - if that is ever decided it won't be decided by some DfT official; it will be dealt with at much higher level. Allowing US registered planes to park in Europe is a component of UK foreign policy too. That's before we get to ICAO....

As a 'resident alien' myself, when I want to take additional ratings, I have to be checked, fingerprinted, confirmed as being who I say I am, Flight school verified, Social Sec checked etc... and I've lived here for 12 years and pay my taxes..! It's almosty enough to make me want to become a citizen...!!

One has to do more than that, with the TSA/M-1 Visa stuff, to train in the USA.

Personally, I don't see it happening, but all the same it's a good reason to get this sorted out sooner rather than later. The thing is that in GA there is always a cloud on the horizon. Always some scare story going around. Some will come true, most won't. If one worried about every one, one would never start flying in the first place, and stick to the entertainment which is guaranteed (Big Brother, sex, porn, MacDonalds, Daily Mail, etc).

[englishal]

if the FAA decide that they are going to ignore international agreed principles and not allow a European to fly in Federal airspace with an ICAO licence
You already can't unless you are flying a foreign registered aeroplane. To fly in US airspace in an N reg, as you no doubt know, you must hold an FAA certificate....issued on the basis of a JAA one, or standalone. The FARs don't distinguish between standalone certificates and full certificates. It is the FAAs form of "validation".

Actually I wouldn't blame the FAA if they decided to enforce ICAO IR rating (or other) holders from sitting an FAA IR "conversion" test ....we do it already in Europe. At the moment the Feds are good enough to trust JAA IR holders and only make them sit a simple written paper (which if you read the books it easy).

IO has a point. If you are at sufficient standard to pass the FAA IR, why not take the FAA PPL in the same flight test? Once the instrument element is complete, the examiner will test you on the private privileges (or vice versa), which after all you should pass. You may pay an extra couple of hundred dollars, but it is worth it. If you can't pass the FAA private, then you have no place flying under instruments in the USA!

From AOPA:

For general aviation pilots flying in U.S. airspace,
no new security measures are anticipated, although pilots may encounter
additional security on the ground at airports with airline service, most
likely tighter controls at the airport perimeter and on the ramp. "While
this latest threat isn't directed at GA, pilots should still be vigilant
for any possible threat," said Andy Cebula, AOPA executive vice president
of government affairs.

[IO540]

Actually I wouldn't blame the FAA if they decided to enforce ICAO IR rating (or other) holders from sitting an FAA IR "conversion" test ....we do it already in Europe

This is now moving onto morality rather than probability, but (of course I never write anything cynical ;) ) the reason the JAA IR is so hard to get is

- to protect European flight training business (flying schools really hate the FAA and N-reg and constantly moan about it)

- to create/protect all the admin jobs in CAA/JAA/whatever-agency-we-have-today

- to maintain the "we Europeans are morally and intellectually superior to the Yank cowboys" position

If the FAA did a revenge action like that, they would be taking on board the same stupid reasons which drive European policy in this area. I don't think there is much precedent for that. The FAA IR is right for its purpose, amply supported by the evidence of running within by far the biggest GA population in the world.

[slim_slag]

IO has a point. If you are at sufficient standard to pass the FAA IR, why not take the FAA PPL in the same flight test?Not one that stands up to scrutiny though. Have you seen people who have just completed their IR course? They don't know how to look out of the window anymore. Cover the AI and they struggle completely with a steep turn. The FAA PPL requires ground reference manouevers that your JAA PPL has probably never seen. The PP and IR test totally different skills, just because you are good at one doesn't mean you are good at the other.

[MichaelJP59]

The FAA PPL requires ground reference manouevers that your JAA PPL has probably never seen.

That's interesting - what are those?

[Julian]

IO has a point. If you are at sufficient standard to pass the FAA IR, why not take the FAA PPL in the same flight test?

Or instead of doing that why dont you get your FAA CPL. You can go for it if you already hold an ICAO PPL which if you already have your JAA then you do!

THe checkride is a tougher PPL checkride with a few extra manoeuvres thrown in.

Saves having too many PPL and its a stand alone licence.

Julian.

[IO540]

Apart from the usual person picking on me each time, I don't get the point being made about not looking out of the window.

There is no real difference between

a) a current JAA PPL pilot (who flies a fair bit of VFR) doing an FAA IR, and

b) a current FAA PPL pilot (who flies a fair bit of VFR) doing an FAA IR

Neither is going to be looking out of the window under IFR in IMC. Neither will be doing very much looking out under IFR in VMC - even though one should be this can be quite difficult in a single pilot situation depending on what one is doing at the time.

The FAA PPL has extra manoeuvres, e.g. flying a square pattern in the presence of crosswind. After proper briefing, these are easy enough for anybody who actually flies a plane. There is also a soft field takeoff and a short field takeoff; these are rarely taught under JAA. The biggest challenge, I found when doing mine, is working out what the FAA examiner wants - for example he wanted me to fly very proper rectangular circuits, not anything oval. The circular slide rule was not required at all under FAA but when he gave me a diversion he wanted me to calculate (not estimate) the new leg time.

Much more to the point, the FAA PPL has significant additional night flight requirements which most JAA PPL+night holders won't have done.

Plus if the plane happens to be fitted with a GPS and an autopilot he will want you to show you can use them both - this p1sses off a lot of UK pilots (who have been conditioned by the CAA/JAA system to turn them off and never even mention them for fear of being banished to burn in hell for ever, and now they have to get the manuals out and work out how this stuff works, or get extra instruction) but it is IMHO a master stroke by the FAA which ensures that pilots with modern planes have at least basic avionics knowledge, without this being officially in the PPL syllabus ;)

Good point about the CPL. An ICAO CPL is potentially very valuable even if the commercial privileges cannot be exercised in most UK situations. But there is a pretty significant amount of exam study (I've done it; mostly good practical stuff).

[slim_slag]

That's interesting - what are those?The FAA PP-ASEL Practical Test Standards (http://www.faa.gov/education_research/testing/airmen/test_standards/pilot/media/FAA-S-8081-14A.pdf) (a PDF) specify what's expected. The three ground reference maneuvers required are on page 49. You have to get your track across the ground right, and it requires techniques that only a few people will get without tuition and practice. They don't teach these techniques during the FAA IR, or as far as I am aware, the JAA PPL :)

[englishal]

No, but my point was that anyone who is competent enough to pick up an IR should be competent enough to pick up the additional FAA requirements for the PPC. ;), especially high time JAR boys and girls.
Saying that though, I passed my IR check ride first time, my MEIR rating first time, my ME CPL check flight first time but failed the SE CPL check flight first time around (JAR would call it a partial pass ;) ) due to the bloody Chandelles:O After that the instructor made me chandelle all the way from LA to Catalina and back, which got them sorted :)