Military To Civil Crossover - Is The Grass Greener?

[waldorf]

I am a military controller who has the option to leave the Service in June 2008 (will be aged 38). I love controlling, wish to continue doing so, and am exploring the possibility of pursuing a career as a civilian controller within the UK. I am aware that my military controlling experience counts for little within the civilian controlling environment, but for background I have 15 years of radar experience at both Area and Terminal units.

I realize ATC training is expensive but am exploring the possibility of self-financing an Aerodrome course at one of the ‘approved’ training providers, with a view to obtaining further (AP/radar) training funded by a future employer. I would appreciate advice on the following areas:

a. What if any variation is there on the quality of training offered by the approved providers? The respective websites yield little information and I would appreciate views from former customers on value for money Vs quality of instruction etc!

b. Information on ‘Bonding’ agreements would be very welcome as I have been unable to glean much via these threads and would appreciate feedback from current Bondees!

c. The forecast state of the controller recruiting market during 2008; does my timing stink? I do not intend to seek employment with NATS (not sure they would want me) but would like to work at a radar equipped unit.

Grateful for any words of advice, especially from those who have ‘jumped’ before me.

[atco112]

Why not go to NATS? There where older ex RAF controllers than you on my course with NATS it was 6 years ago so dont know what the current situation is.

By 2008 I should imagine there will still be a shortage of controllers, proably worse than now. Many non NATS units, who in the past have relied on NATS cast offs ie. people with ADM but no radar, have had that supply cut off and will therefore have to fund more controller training. As you are experienced you will be much less of a risk of failure on the expensive courses I am sure someone would take you on. Try serco or individual airfields. VT aerospace would definetely considers you if they are short in 2008 which will probably be the case.

In regards to the bonds, even though they are not worth the paper they are written on, the consensus is that you should not break them because onther units would not employ you. Personally I am not sure this would be the case but really if a unit spends all that money on you I think you owe them a few years. However the bonds are only for 2 or 3 years so not really a problem.

[Number2]

I thought a certain ex(ATC) Wg Cdr is looking to recruit ATCOs for civil courses for Serco. I could very easily be misinformed but this is a 'rumour' network.

Worth a call maybe?

Good luck either way

[Wee Jock McPlop]

Waldorf,

As someone who did the 'crossover' to civil ATC I may be able to offer an insight.

1. I joined NATS, so can only comment on the quality of the courses/instruction at Hurn. I did an APC to enable me to start on the 2nd part of the aerodrome course and thereafter went on to do the approach radar course. Some of the practical/theory stuff you will already know and you might find some of that a bit repetitive. However, I actually found it helped me no end as I attempted to get to grips with the civil way of doing things. Helped this old dog learn new tricks! The quality of instruction (in my humble opinion) was pretty good. Tales of people with a grudge against ex-mil guys/girls proved way wide of the mark. That said, your attitude goes a long way to determining the level of extra support you will get and sometimes need. The old "i've been there, seen it, done it and got the T-shirt" attitude will just serve to piss people off.

2. I am 'bonded' to NATS for 3 years from the commencement of my training at my new unit. I don't find this a problem and view it purely as a means to an end and part of the deal of joining NATS. Would I have wanted to challenge it? Not really, as I'm doing a job I thoroughly enjoy and am pretty well rewarded for it. The last bit is purely a personal opinion and other NATS guys reading this might disagree!! ;)

3. The civil ATCO market is I believe pretty strong and whilst the self-funded route may be a good initial step on the ladder, I would not discount the option of trying to join NATS. They have an existing 'experienced controller' program, give you the appropriate training and will fund you through that training - albeit the student salary is not what it used to be. You will, I believe, also have to do the full course/courses as the APC route is no longer available through NATS. Although i'm sure others reading this may know more about that bit.

Overall, is it worth it? Well, after 19 years in the RAF, I had a straightforward choice. Sit behind a desk til i'm 55 or bog off whilst I still had good memories of the Service and try to continue doing the job I thoroughly enjoy. It was a big risk at the time and you have a lot of things to think through before you make that decision. However, I would recommend it. It's hard work, make no bones about it. But it is worth it in the end. You'll miss the good bits about the RAF (i'm sure there still are good bits despite the Chancellors best efforts), but your new career will make up for that.

Best of luck with whatever you decide to do,

WJMcP

[waldorf]

Many thanks for the replies.

Atco112,

I have almost discounted seeking employment with NATS due to the associated upheaval which will be caused to my family. In leaving the Service, I hope to enjoy a period of relative stability with my family without having to endure frequent moves, long separations and weekend commuting for years on end. As far as I can see, the NATS route would entail up to 18 months commuting to and from the College with no certainty as to where I will eventually end up working.

Thanks for the steer on VT. I am aware that bonds are not legally enforceable but am used to giving and keeping my word; anyway, I would imagine that word would soon spread if an individual reneged on an agreement with an employer!

Number 2,

Thanks for the steer on SERCO; yes, I had heard.

Wee Jock McPlop,

When I first began considering a career morph, I decided that the best way forward was to start at the beginning again and undertake the full process via the College; indeed, I was looking forward becoming an ab-initio again! However, I would prefer to self-fund in order to minimize both the training time and family disruption. As for bonding, I was after more info about the actual mechanics of such agreements themselves; how long do typical bonding agreements last for? What if any other tie-ins are there etc.

[waldorf]

Any feedback on the relative merits of the approved providers product would be gratefully received. I am led to believe that the standard of instruction might vary and, as I am putting my own hard earned money on the line, I want the best quality training I can find!

[Number2]

'I am putting my own hard earned money'
I thought you said you were still in the military?! :)

[leavingonajetplane]

I'm currently in the middle of the changeover thing. PM me for info.:}

[Flying Squad]

WJMP

I remember when you told us never to call you that!! Check your PMs. :)

[Flying Squad]

WJPM

Sorry, mis-ident (never done that before)!! :sad:

[leavingonajetplane]

anyone know how to contact mr moss?

[Flying Squad]

Send me a PM, I have his number.

[Wee Jock McPlop]

Waldorf,

I can only speak from my own experience as far as 'bonding' conditions are concerned. I am tied to NATS for 3 years. If at anytime during that 3 year period I choose to leave, then I would have to re-pay the cost of NATS putting me through the Approach Radar Course. Up until a couple of years ago, the sum involved 'might' have been worth paying if the job you were going to was very well paid. Bearing in mind that I had also paid for the cost of my Aerodrome 2 Course as well. :{ The cost of these courses is now just way too high. That said, it would be interesting to know the experiences of anyone who has left NATS and told them to stick it where the sun don't shine.;) Has anyone done that?


FS,

Don't worry mate! I think we've all been guilty of that at some time or another! :E