Non-airline professional flying

[BOHEME]

I'm just starting a King Air 200 type rating at Flight Safety international Paris-Le Bourget and no opportunities confirmed.
I'm 24, living in London, currently load planner at LHR, and I ask to everyone if somebody knows where I can possibly get a job in UK as first officer on King Air.

Regards.

[MIKECR]

BOHEME,

www.gamaaviation.co.uk

Mostly charter stuff in B200's and I think they still have the Air Ambulance contract aswell. Someone correct me if im wrong??

You could always try them with a cv.

[spitfire747]

I know Dragonfly here at Cardiff are recruiting for type rated FOs and Captains



http://www.dragonflyac.com/default.asp

Goodluck

http://www.dragonflyac.com/default.asp

[smith]

Try Air Charter Scotland based at Prestwick, they have 2 King Airs

[18greens]

Forgive me for asking, but I need to understand the thought process that leads you to do a King Air rating and then ask who has a King Air. Is a King Air rating an easy way to enter the pilot market with a low cost type rating? Why, for instance, don't you do a 737 rating , there are more of them and Jet pay is better than turbo prop. Or better still, do a sstr with sleazy or ryan.

Just curious.

[european champion]

Boheme how much was the cost?

[speedbird145]

Just to confirm Air Charter Scotland only have one King Air and are not recruiting.

[AIRWAY]

London Executive Aviation (LEA) I believe has a few Kingairs, when i was flying @ Stapleford i use to see 1 sometimes 2 parked over there.

[BOHEME]

OK,

first, thanks to everyone for answering back.
I've already tried Gama by email, phone call, mail and even to meet them at Farnborought, but nothing back.

Somebody asked me how much was the cost :
21 000euros (13 500£), expensive for a King rating but this is FSI.

Why I'm doing a King Air type rating, instead of Jet rating (737or320) ?, because I'm a low hours pilot (300hrs), and I'm confident I won't get a job on 737 with my small flying experience.
I just try to be realist.
I've seen to much people with few hundred, thousand hrs and a jet rating without a job during the first year of your rating. What does that mean : between 20 000£ and 30 000£ lost. (anyway, I haven't got such money)
I may be wrong, but this is what happens for some of us.

Yes, I think a King Air rating could be an easier way to enter the pilot market and get a first experience, even if my pay at the end of the month is ridiculous. I don't care about that at the moment, I'm 24. I just want to do what I want to do, which is the most important !

Finaly, why I'm asking who has a King Air, because I'm from France and the french market is not a good idea at the moment.
Currently working in London since few months, I want to try in UK which is probably a better idea.


Hope you understood my english.
Rgds.

[Fair_Weather_Flyer]

There was a thread on B200 type ratings a few weeks ago. The question was whether it was worth sponsoring a B200 type rating. The general answer was probably not the one you want to hear.

[AIRWAY]

G'day,

I haven't got statistics, my opinion is purely for what i see around in aviation, i strongly believe that either a B737 or an A320 TR (even though i don't agree with paying for TR's is the way to go, you will have more chances with those two than a Kingair rating where there is not many around and jobs are few.

Just my 2 cents...

I wish you the best.

[BOHEME]

Anyway, what is done is done. I'm not gonna change the type of my rating now.
If I was right, time will tell.

Thanks once again for those who answered my question.

[portsharbourflyer]

The employment situation in the UK probably isn't any different than that it is in France, there is already a stack of UK national pilots unemployed / looking for the first job.

However a King Air still keeps alot of options open, ie that is by doing a 737/A320 type rating you are ruling out gaining employment with turbo prop operators, also it is multi turbine experience (How much value airlines may give to this? I am not qualified to comment).

However you may still find it useful to do an instructors rating, one to maintain currency while searching for a job, secondly alot of King Air "second pilot" jobs may only be pilots assistant positions, therefore the hour building from instructing may still be required to build hours to the insurable minimums.
I was looking a doing a King Air Rating myself, but have decided to wait 12 months and if I do go for a type rating it will be on a Citation.

At 20000 for euros you could have done an ATR 42 type rating for about 22000 Euros; I know of five people whom have gained employment on the ATR after doing the ATR rating in the last year. Anyway good luck.

You may want to look at going to Africa, I believe alot of operators in Africa operate the King Air. Pool Aviation at Blackpool are also King Air Operators.

[BOHEME]

I have to say something I haven't say yet.
I'm french, and I applied in 2004 with my national airline, and I have to wait for 3-4 years (the same for everybody) since I applied for the Air France Professional Pilot Selection. So, if I have to pay for a 737/A320 type rating, it won't be before know if I get through it or not, because if I'm successful, AF will sponsor the type rating and everything.
I've been already waiting for that for few years, and I'm really hoping to get through.

[Trent 900]

You have to remember the King Air is a single pilot a/c. Unless you are working for the likes of Gama, Flight Precision, it is unlikely you will be able to log the hours (left hand seat). I was told that the CAA have allowed these two companies, maybe others but not all King Air operators to log both pf and pnf due to the nature of their work!!!

I know it too late for you to change, but you should have gone for an ATR 42/72, not King Air.

I hope it works for you mate.

[the goon]

Re: Air Charter Scotland. Indeed they only have one BE200 at the moment, with a high probability of another one being operated on their AOC, however I`d certainly advise sending your CV to them once you have your rating.

Good Luck

(PS: Not recruiting eh??)

[B200Drvr]

Boheme,
Good for you mate, you have chosen well and will learn alot flying a 200. South Africa(contracts) has jobs a plenty for King Air co-pilots. These are contact jobs where you can fly up to 100 hrs per month on various contracts around the world. I am sure most of them would be interested in talking to you with a type by FSI. At least you have the chance of doing some real flying before you end up in and airline seat, dont rush to the airline, you are 24 and have your whole life to do that. Get out and see the world in one of the most succesfull machines ever made.

[european champion]

Im also interested in doing the training for the rating but im looking for a cheaper option.Anyone knows where i could do it cheaper?

[Trent 900]

I think there is a place at Norwich Airport that does BE20 ratings. Worth a shot, not sure of cost!!

[BOHEME]

Thank all of you for your advices. I'm glad to hearing from people who try to give a help.
I will take in consideration the operators given above, and maybe change my mind by thinking to move to another continent as well. But I haven't got any contact out of Europe at the moment.
I don't mind to move out, I came to London to improve my english actualy which was not easy, so of course I can go to another continent for flying.
As I said I will always try to do what I would like to do, and you are right "B200Drvr", what a nice aircraft !
Thanks once again, and wish you the best for the new year !

[unimuts]

Check your pm's, will try to give you some help

Unimuts.

[Trent 900]

Best of luck with the rating. Give me a shout when you have completed!!
I work for flight precision, I'll see what I can do!!!

[viabon]

Hi Boheme,

Have you tried, with MANAGAIR in France, I heard many weeks ago, I was
seeking for one KINGAIR pilot, give him a call or door knocking.
:ok:

[B200Drvr]

EC, 43rd Advanced in South Africa do them, both B200 & 1900 P2 for about 3K, Not sure on the P1 only price as they are done together for the contract market.

[european champion]

Thanks for the info B900.What about that 43rd school,arethe JAA approved,could they add the rating to my JAA license?

[speedbird145]

message to the goon where are you getting your info on air charter scotland?

[Phil Brockwell]

We us BFC (admittedly our parent company) to train our BE20 pilots) 01275 474601

Phil

[B200Drvr]

EC, not to sure about the JAA/JAR addition, give them a call, they are at Lanseria (FALA) in South Africa, They are 43rd Advanced training. Dont have a number with me as I am in Pakistan at the moment.

[Mr R Sole]

BOHEME

I personally think you have made a wise decision with regards to your King Air rating. Your chances of picking up a King Air job will be far higher than with a 737 or a A320! I simply can't understand why people are so hell bent on getting a B737 or a A320 rating when certainly in the UK the employment opportunities are limited if you don't have any line experience!

If I were you I would go onto the CAA website and go to the aircraft registration database and find out exactly who has B200s. This method will also allow you to see the details of any privately owned B200s.

Remember with regards to logging flightime - you can log anything you wish but you have to bear in mind when it comes to licence issue (ATPL) what you can count. For the B200 the CAA need a letter from your operator to certify that the aircraft was flown in a 2 crew environment for any multi crew hours to be counted.

Look abroad as well since your chances will be far higher than probably in the UK.

All the best.

[Phil Brockwell]

IMHO you have either made a good move, or a bad one depending on your total time and previous experience.

The Kingair is a single crew aircraft, fact. The insurance companies require that you have a reasonable number of hours to fly one (1100-1500 minimum dependent on which operator I think). If you have these hours you should be able to get a job relatvely easilly as piots with those amount of hours are taken by netjets and the majors. If you do not have that many hours you can not fly the aircraft for insurance reasons unless it is either under instruction or the operator is one of the very few with 2 crew ops. Just because you see 2 guys with white shirts and a flight case get off an aircraft does not mean it is being operated 2 crew as far as logging the hours is concerned.

I am aware of 5 Kingairs being imported onto the G regster this quarter, so there should be no problem with jobs if you have the required hours.

Let me know how many hours you have total.

Phil

[Ingo1]

I am also considering doing a rating on the B200. At the moment I am doing the technical course but after that I haven't decided If, where and how to proceed.
As far as I know I could either take the check on the right side as F/O or as PIC. I guess the smartest thing is to do a PIC check so that you are not limited in any way when applying for a position even though you'll probably end up on the right side.
Here in scandinavia I think the operators mainly fly 2-crew but I am not sure.
What are the chances for a foreigner to get a job in UK flying B200?
My hours are 1200 TT with 300 Multi and 300 Turbine. I am mainly flying skydivers at the moment.
Regards,
Ingo1

[angelorange]

Ingo1 just apply to the usual suspects: GAMA, Dragonfly, Flight Precision Ltd - do a google search for contact info or join a group like IPA / BALPA and get info that way.

[B200Drvr]

Phil,
Beech 200 is certified for one or two crew. Thats in the manual. It is also very evident by the cockpit layout.
Ingo1 make sure you can pass the P1 check and that you know the machine, dont base your decision on what you can do with the rating, base it on how well you know and can fly the aeroplane.

[Phil Brockwell]

B200,

I know the aircraft is certfied for 1 or 2 crew, but in the UK nearly every operator has a single crew AOC on this aircraft. Therefore it makes the hours as an FO / Safety pilot unloggable. If you can't log it it's not going to get your career going very far.

Phil

[B200Drvr]

Phil,
I agree

[angelorange]

Actually Public Transport the a/c is 2 crew - talk with GAMA, TITAN and the like. For Calibration work, under ICAO Annex 10, above average crew required for Multi Crew operation - hence Flight Precision Ltd fly 3 crew (Capt, FO and Flight inspector - although only front end can log the hours)

Cheers

[Phil Brockwell]

Angelorange,

Saying the BE20 is a 2 crew aircraft is like saying the Seneca is a 2 crew aircraft. It is a single crew aircraft, however some operators choose to operate with 2 crew.
Phil

[angelorange]

Please check my other posts on the subject - I am not trying to claim this to be a two crew a/c. See JAR for MPA and SPA listings. There the Be90/100/200 and even the much heavier Be1900 are SPA because they were certified that way. On the other hand, the Jetstream 31/32 is MPA but lighter than a Be1900.

So, where an a/c is SPA, it is HOW that machine is operated that determines crewing eg: PPL VFR, Aerial Work, Public Transport or specialised flying - different rules apply - it is not just an SPA/MPA airframe certification issue. See also CAP 393 ANO part 4 , section 25. para 4 a through c.

[BOHEME]

Angelorange is 100% right !
You can operate a King Air with 2 crew, 1 pf and 1 pnf, only if it is WRITTEN like that IN the Operational Manual of the compagny for this aircraft.
It doesn't depend of how this aircraft is certified.

[Woof etc]

Boheme - with a B200 rating from FSI and speaking French, I am sure that you would be able to find something in Africa.

Its a small step from the 200 to the 1900, and lots of 1900s out there at the moment.

[Gotta_Hope]

This is my first post and I am looking for some info on flying other than for professional passenger airlines. It is incredibly difficult to find any kind of info for these kind of jobs as all careers sites lean towards only Airline Pilot positions. I've always wanted to work in an airline but the various threads that tell how difficult it can be to get one of these coveted jobs have put that dream to the back of my mind, as more of the ultimate, long term aim than it was before.

So, I'm looking for info (any kind would be appreciated) on those kind of jobs at home in the UK or abroad, primarily as a paying way to get a good number of hours notched up. I don't have any licences at this time but I can't see any problems in getting them. I presume, going by common sense, I will need a CPL for a paid flying job. So just a few (hopefully quick) questions:

1.What jobs are there for commercially licensed pilots other than the obvious, e.g. instructors

2. What do they involve? What are benefits/downsides?

3. Do many of these kinds of jobs need certain amounts of flying hours?

Any answers to these questions would be greatly appreciated, as would links to sites with help with articles more varied than Airline Pilot, Airline Pilot, Airline Pilot, Airline Pilot, BA pilot :mad:


Thanks a lot to those who can help people like me with a - hopefully - more realistic approach to eventually perhaps becoming the Airline Captain I dream of being :ok:

[UltraSonic]

Well, i have to say you have the right attitude :)
Start small and grow as you go.

You are right about the CPL/IR, you'll need it.

There are many jobs outthere other then airline jobs. Some examples: foto shoots, runway ILS calibration, small package delivery, medical flights, and so on and so on....
As for where to get them i would try a few small local airports, once you have your CPL in your pocket visit them from time to time, know what's the "word on the street" if you know what i mean.
Most of these jobs do not require a high amount of flight hours, most pilots use these jobs to do time building.

I hope this helps.

[Maude Charlee]

Try http://www.pilotjobsnetwork.com/tcontactlist.html as a good place to start.

[learboys]

Hi there

Just to give you an idea there are alot of different types of flying.
Charter operations-Small executive and corporate jets
Bush pilots- flying folks to lodges, islands(island hopping taxi services).
Flying for freight companies like DHL with smaller aircraft, Grand vans.
Flying for aid, Red Cross and United Nations.

I've been around small aircraft(cesna 402, barons, senneca's, kingair 200, 1900 series) and smaller Jets (lear 24-25, hs 125 series) and Helicopters(bell series)
It's been a whole lot of fun, I dont think I would even consider going to the airlines. The places I've been and people, its a way of life, never a dull moment.

I have taken time off and currently doing my ATPL so I can go Captain a small jet aircraft some day. You have to have an ATPL as jet aircraft are classed above 5700kg.
I personally feel the airlines are a rip off, as young pilots have to pay large amounts of money to get rated and the salary are low, you have to wait a long time for promotion and a long time before you start earning a good salary. Not saying you shouldn't try for the airlines.

Please note alot of pilots flying for Charter companies do move over to the airlines from time to time. The airlines require Pilots with hours they fetch them from the Charter industry, so don't give up your dream.

Bottom line is just start enjoy your flying, dont worry about the hours or ratings they will come, who knows where you will be in 10 years from now.

Good luck

[Gotta_Hope]

Thanks these have been great help, really appreciate it, but what is the average time scale and price range for getting a PPL and a CPL? I know it varies according to ability, school etc., but what about, for example, someone training full time passing the majority of exams first time?

Some more answers to my first question (top of page) would still be very welcome, thanks.

[wings87]

:ok: Totally agree with learboys.
Done most of my flying flight instruction + air taxi between caribbean islands and other places, great experience!!Now 35 decided to come back and just finished my licence conversion. Hope i will get a job soon in that same category in the Uk, if anyone ready to help please feel free to contact me.
Good luck everyone and remenber that not only airline job is a flying job!!

[WX Man]

Aerial survey

Advantages: basically 6 months on, 6 months off. The 6 months off is the advantage.

Disadvantages: not many hours (300 a year if you're lucky), difficult to find full time job that pays through the winter and long days during summer. Oh and the money's sh*te compared to airlines (but more than instructing).

Certainly not a career job- and that's coming from me who is probably one of people most likely to be cut out for this as a career. But give me a decent paying airline job any day.

[potatowings]

Some posts here are obviously from disgruntled people.

Looking at it realistically you need to think outside the shiny tube. Speaking as someone with experience working my way through the system into the right hand seat of an aircraft I decided I wanted to fly over 5 years ago, I can tell you it is possible.

If you would like some tips then either e-mail or PM me.

[stefair]

potatowings - Why PM or e-mail? Why not posting it here so we can all benefit from it!? :confused:

[MrHorgy]

In slightly the same vane as the above...

How the job market for Freighter pilots? Do they take many low houred guys? Wouldn't mind working for UPS of ChanEx if the opportunity arose...

Horgy

[badgerpuppy]

Dudes,

If I had been offered a job on an airliner having graduated from the OATS long couurse in late 2001 I think I would have taken it and not looked back. As it was, those jobs at that time were just not around and I was forced to go and get myself an instructor's rating.

From being a 1000hr flying instructor / instrument instructor / multi engine instructor, I became a seneca driver flying public transport last minute freight and pax. This was all over europe, day, night, crap wx.

At 1300hrs, I had command of a BE20 Super King Air, single pilot with the same company again flying all over europe and doing some really interesting stuff.

At 1800hrs, I had command of a multicrew light jet zipping about at 40,000 feet doing the med, FL100 positioning from airport to airport empty, flying just enough, but not too much to get bored of it! Best of all I get paid on a par with or if not better than my contempararies who work for the likes of easy or ryan.

Flying Corporate is actually what I had in mind when I signed on to this ridiculous fiasco of an industry. The nightstops in wonderful hotels, the company credit card, hanging about in beach bars, not six sectors per day to alicante or some other hideous destination taking people who frankly give me a rash to places they can't pronounce for 42 quid.

Most of the guys I know at airlines are bored silly with this. In three years I have been to 1250 odd airports across europe and actually have been able to get out of the airport for a few days and look around.

Believe me, it's not for everyone and you can pick holes in any job you get offered but really,this is fantastic, and lets face it they are your hosties and your company ink, not mine.

tata.

[buzzc152]

WX man, there are jobs around for survey pilots that pay a decent full time salary, give plenty of good multi flying and all the usual benefits. Granted, they're not easy to come by but the do exist ('cause I've got one)....... just need to get out and visit the right companies.

[angelorange]

Want to really hone those flying skills try: www.flightprecision.co.uk

[Davidils20l]

No luck searching the web, so checking with you all out there.
Wondering if there were any air taxi, charter flight companies running from spain. Turbo would be great, but right now even C402 or Navajo would please my desires.

Also are there any regional turbo operators, apart from Nostrum operating in Spain.

Alot of these small fields are expanding, e.g. Malaga, Granada, Seville. Must be work there somewhere!

Thanks

[Fokkerdriver]

DenimAir is looking for pilots

[Girl Fly-day]

Hello

Please could anyone help me with the following?

I'm on the verge of deciding whether to go for my commercial licence and am trying to get a feel for job prospects - the area I haven't explored yet is that of the lower paid jobs such as aerial photography flights, research flights, tourist flights etc? This might be a good route in to build experience before applying to airlines. Does anyone know of a directory of such companies, or can anyone offer some useful tips please?

Thanks! :)

[Addy]

Denim Air have just told me on the phone that at the moment there is no recruitment going on

[badgerpuppy]

dudes,

sometimes there are jobs, sometimes not ( on jets i mean), usually there are jobs on something somewhere, if you have a licence and no particular ties also having done the right thing and planned to pay for an intructor's rating straight out of school, you have no excuse for being out of work. When i graduated very shortly after 9/11 thats what everyone with half a brain did, and i and my mates have not been out work for a single day since. There is som much more to this industry than getting a licence and then flying a bloody airbus up and down europe until we are retired. Granted, that's what most of us end up doing in the end but it's such a painful and competetive move to make with 200 hours. If you do this and get a licence, the answer is that you will get work if you really really want it, the nice thing about our industry is that it's so easy to just keep going, a year instructing, a year air taxi, a year single pilot turboprop, a year light jets, right hand seat big jets, command big jets. Simple really.

[Girl Fly-day]

Hi

Thanks for that, it's really good to hear. Not much said around about these other 'smaller' jobs but I am so willing to do anything to get on the ladder. For me, it's about the fun of flying, not necessarily flying passengers up and down. Don't care what it is, where I fly etc

Do you know where i can start finding out more? Any useful recruitment agencies, air taxi directories, etc?

Many thanks!

[mach2moose]

Try www.pilotjobsnetwork.com and look under small operators.

Good luck

[Girl Fly-day]

Thank you!

[usedtofly]

I have been out of the loop for last two years. Are there still any jobs available for single pilot multi IR stuff ?

Does anyone know what kind of demand there is for freelance pilots these days?

Much obliged

UTF

[Mercenary Pilot]

There are jobs....if you've got hours.

[MVE]

Try Centerline, p!ss poor pay but you'll build hours....

[Chinchilla.612]

Definately jobs around, but generally short notice and prefer you to have experience and be current. As far as demand for freelance pilots goes......I'm currently freelancing for 3 companies so I'd say there's a good demand!

I believe Centreline may still be looking for a PA34 pilot, and although the pay is certainly not good, it could be a good way back into it?

What experience level are you coming back to it from?

[wigwag]

Use small operators on www.ppjn.com for a list, centerline are advertising on pprune for pa34 pilots.

Dont know what the deal is but heard they pay very very little, but if you need the hours call them

Bristol International Airport,
North Somerset,
BS48 3DP

Phone 01275-474357/Fax 01275-474851

WW

[winch launch]

can someone remind me of the minimum experience required to fly single pilot multi IFR under an AOC or maybe centreline operates their PA34 as Air Taxi and not AOC?

Thanks

Winch

[WX Man]

Air Taxi needs an AOC just the same as every other bloke and blokess flying for hire/reward does. Only Aerial Work doesn't need an AOC (for the moment).

Centreline have it stated in their AOC that commanders may have 400 hours etc etc. Most other air taxi bods have the minimum set by the CAA as 700 hours.

Centreline are still looking I believe (the ad is still at the top of this page). The job was offered to a colleague of mine, but at £12K per year he wasn't tempted to jump ship from our mob...

[Phil Brockwell]

People,

What would you expect to be paid as a PA34 driver.

The 12k mentioned above was for 2-3 days pre-rostered flying per week, accomodation and car thrown in, plus £150 per day for any additional ad-hoc flying!

I think that is in line with most air taxi ops?

The role is not designed to tempt anyone to jump ship, we are looking for new guys who are happy to up sticks and build some hours on a fair package.

Phil

[Chinchilla.612]

Winch Launch,

The minimum hours are set (I believe) in the AOC for each company, and some have lower requirements than others depending on the arrangement with the CAA when JAR was implemented.

Centreline have one of the lowest requirements around, BUT you need to remember that even if you meet the hours you still need to pass the OPC and LPC (harder with less experience). Although I'm sure Phil Brockwell can correct me if I'm wrong here.



Phil,

It was me that Wx Man is talking about.



And for everyone else reading this thread,

It wasn't that the pay was unfair for the work in question. Moreover that there wasn't enough work (and thus pay) to make it financially viable for me personally.

However, for someone looking for their first job, it does seem an ideal entry point to a respectable air taxi company, with good prospects in the longer term. And as Phil said above, the pay is pretty much in line with other companies (for the amount of work you would be doing).

Also worth bearing in mind that it does come with accomodation (shared with the other crew) and a car (for to/from airport travel only), which is more than a lot of companies will offer. Keep tax implications in mind though!

If you're looking for your first job......seems a good one to try for.

Safe flying to all.

Chinchilla.

[Phil Brockwell]

Chincilla,

Thanks for making that clear to everyone, I wouldn't like to get the reputation of paying "p!ss poor" wages.

I'm quite surprised that we got such a poor response, 10k per year for 2 nights work with accomodation supplied seemed a good deal to me, guess there are just too many jobs out there for low houred guys!

We jigged it around and managed to get one BFS based guy to run 5 nights a week, with the occasional BRS pilot easyjetting up to cover him.

So he'll see mid £20's with car and flat for working mon-fri. Not bad for a Seneca guy I think.

Phil

[EGBKFLYER]

I'm a little surprised that you got a 'poor response' Phil - wonder how many people didn't apply because they didn't meet the requirements you asked for (me for one).

[Phil Brockwell]

Not having the minimum requirements didn't stop many people applying, we had loads of applications, unfortunately if you haven't got the minimums the CV's go straight in the bin (a frustrating sifting process).

While I'm on this subject a couple of points.

Sim time is not part of your Total Time.
Just because you once met Martin Barnes you still need the minimum hours.

Phil

[EGBKFLYER]

Not having the minimum requirements didn't stop many people applying - we had loads of applications, unfortunately if you haven't got the minimums the CV's go straight in the bin (a frustrating sifting process).

:) Which is as it should be - otherwise why have minimum requirements?! Unfortunately, some of your recruiting colleagues elsewhere in this industry seem to say one thing and do another, which leads to people ignoring what is asked for - if they ignore their own minimums, why shouldn't we? Makes everything very grey and confusing and leads to your paper bin becoming full:ugh:

[Phil Brockwell]

Slightly different to the airlines using hours requirements to limit the number of applications, our limits are based on the fact that below these hours we cannot employ you.


Phil

[EGBKFLYER]

Yes true - but how many knew that difference in your case? Not many, judging by the number of inappropriate applications sent... I bet that even if you stated the reason for the minimum requirements on the ad, many would not have believed you, such is the game-playing that seems to go on in the industry.
My previous comment was not a criticism (quite the opposite in fact) - I'm just lamenting the fact that recruitment in this game sometime seems to be a black art when it could easily be a science. :\

[Sensible]

It seems that somebody is advertising on PPRuNe for very low hour pilots - well, 400 hours for a Seneca driver is low isn't it?

http://www.pprune.org/centrelinead/centrelinead1.html

No, I have no connection whatsoever, only commenting on the remarkably low hour requirements!

[Piltdown Man]

Throw loads of money at KLM's flight school and speak dutch and you too can get at job at 250 hours or so (and owe the banks €140,000). :cool:

[LDG_GEAR _MONITOR]

Phil,
shame i didnt haave the 40 hrs multi ifr p1 you need - i met all the other flying requirements and also licenced engineer on your types (could be of use down route!) but if you get stuck im still interested in upping sticks to coventry or liverpool !!

[wigwag]

Pre 9-11, 200 - 300 hours multi engine would have got you noticed and prob a job too in the airlines.

Now with the need to gain 500 hours multi-crew time, I wonder if this has put many pilots off applying.

Why fly multi-piston when all the airlines want Yes, type rated hours on type, but seemingly 500 hours multi-crew ? Therefore better to fly a bizjet or TP greater than 5700kg, get your full atpl.

WW

[WX Man]

Something that puts me off applying for this (and anything similar) is that the more single crew stuff you do, the less attractive you seem to become to airlines.

That being said, it doesn't seem to be much of a problem to bizjet types... many of whom won't look at you if you have less than 1000h.

[Aerofoil]

Hi all

I just wondered if anyone could answer this question....

Some Air taxi companies now have dispensation from the CAA (centreline air charter being one of them) for lower hour requirements.
I believe this minimum is 400 hours total but i wondered if anyone could tell me what these hours must consist of i.e x amount multi IFR etc etc?

[flightlevel550]

Aerofoil,

300 hours P1 , 40 hrs P1 M/E under IFR. But that's pretty darn minimum! Air taxi work is :mad: hard work, and a tough start if its your first commercial job with low hours and single pilot!

It is a bloody good start though and significantly improves ones piloting skills - i.e. stick+rudder and decision making. It also provides valuable customer relations experience, as you are the face of your company, and it is you who makes the difference between a repeat business or not!

If you don't like paperwork ........:ugh:

flightlevel550

[Troy McClure]

The only question is how you get 40 hour multi-engine IFR without working for an air taxi operation (without paying £12,000 for the privilege). It's the old chicken and the egg thing...

[WX Man]

Generally by getting your foot in the door with someone like AirMed, Capital or Centreline and sitting in the right hand seat with someone who's nice enough to let you log the hours on empty sectors.

[winch launch]

Hi there,

Skydiving season is about to end I am afraid, and so is the flying with it :(
I am a JAA CPL/IR/MEP/MCC pilot with a total of 650 hours, 200 of them being as a PIC on the cessna caravan. I am trying to find a job on the van anywhere in the world but it' s not always easy to find informations on the internet as it's usually small operators using them. If anyone has any idea of where I could apply, I would appreciate any help. Or maybe informations about companies that are looking for pilots with turbine experience even if it' s not to fly the caravan.

Blue skies

Winch

[papazulu]

Hope this can help a bit...

http://www.ebanhandbook.com/hb_front.html

Use the AIRCRAFT search option and then SE TP country by country. I was surfing it today and found many operators all over EU, especially in Spain. I would give an arm and a leg to fly the Van in Southern Spain but I cannot afford the rating :{ and over there you need the "enchufe" to get in...:{

Wish I got my Porter TR when I had the chance but I went for the FI route. Big mistake, so far...

Wish you all the best.

PZ :ok:

[Supermattt]

Hi all,

Is there anyone out there who is not aiming for a 'proper airline job'? Much of the discussion and advice seems to be about how to get an ATPL and then how to get into an airline flying turboprops or jets. I would love to do that, however I am also very interested in the possibility of single pilot ops, perhaps in some remote area hauling cargo (does this exist).

Are bush/remote area pilots generally very high hour, very skilled pilots that are in high demand and could you only get a position after years and years of flying or is this type of job viewed more as the kind of thing operators can't get anyone to do and consequently is easier to get into? Is it at all viable to do a CPL and get taken on low hours at some small outfit in the middle of nowhere who only fly boxes of beans and blankets?

With thanks
Matt

[ThermoMan]

Question for anyone currently working in air taxi / charter or (dreaming I know...) biz jet operations.

At the recent recruitment forum it was suggested that there were jobs to be had on some of the twins (King Airs and the like) if you knew where to look.

Question I have is how many hours experience would usually be required for this type of work as it's mainly single-pilot IFR? What sort of person would these operators be looking for?

[Wodka]

A figure often thrown around for air taxi is 700hrs TT to get a start (many companies have this due to insurance etc)

BUT ... I've heard of many guys with far less than that getting jobs and this usually comes down to the old boy network "i'll sort you out son!" or the classic being in the right place at the right time.

Why don't you phone some companies to find out? :eek:

[Chinchilla.612]

The minimum requirements for Air Taxi MEP pilots with the company I work for are 700 hrs total and 200 hrs MEP. Most companies on average seem to look for 700hrs total with 100 MEP, but some (like Centreline) have as little as 40hrs MEP. You still need to be capable enough to pass your Operational and Line Checks though.
If you're lucky and talk to the right people at the right time, you may get work in the right hand seat to gain experience, and fly the "dead legs" (non public transport) to bring your hours up. This is what our newest pilot is doing at the moment, (but he has worked in ops for quite a while to prove himself 1st).
If you don't already have the experience, it does largely come down to being willing to take whatever you can find at 1st and do lots of networking. Be prepared to work hard, be available as much as possible, and bear in mind most smaller companies won't bother with your cv if you don't already live locally to them.
From my own experience each subsequent job was a result of people I'd met whilst working for the previous employer, and none of them were advertised positions.
All the best with the job search.
Chinchilla.

[54.98N]

With Centreline you need 40 hours logged MEP instrument time I think.

[Island Hopper]

Yes, and those 40 hours have to be PIC, so unfortunately apart from the test, the multi hours on the IR don't count.

IH

[Big Kev]

Good website that was sent by a friend to me about flying in outback aussie land in kanunurra.

Nice 210 shots too....

http://users.tpg.com.au/adslsttq/website/index.html

[Craggenmore]

Nice site and what a great flying experience! Nothing like that in the UK Im sorry to say...:)

[redsnail]

Yep, did that for ~2 years. Although I flew for Alligator Airways. :ok:

[Christa]

Can anyone tell me what the requirements(ie - hours, ATPL??) are for SAR(Search and Rescue) pilots or aeromed, air medical, organ transporting, that type of thing?
And the name of some companies, i've been looking on the internet but haven't had much luck finding many.

Cheers!
:ok:

[portsharbourflyer]

Most companies involved in rapid freight or organ transport are air taxi companies, therefore 700 hours including 40 hours p1 multi would be the minimum required for single pilot ops, though these companies often ask for 1000 hours total time with 100 to 200 hours multi (as stated in one of the posts above).

[YYZ]

Most taxi/medivac/S&R places I know seem to have the 700 hour rule, along with 100 MEP PIC IFR... however, there is still the "who do you know" factor in there, get out and network and you never know what could happen?

Good Luck
YYZ

[dabeuk]

hey, can anyone who knows any thing about fixed wing firefighting in canda and what kind of flight experience is required. im in new zealand at the moment im gonna go over there in a few months and have a look around see what happens. any info would be greatly appreaciated

[andychuck]

Hi all,

Just thought I would share my experience of the past 6 months...

spent that past 2 years converting my nz cpl to a uk cpl, shelled out the appropriate ammount of money and jumped through all the hoops to finaly get the blue book. After a few months of fruitless cv sending was approached by the owner of an aerial photography outfit - to see if I would like to fly the 172 up and down the country, said yes of course. The result is that I've spent the past six month flying all over the uk and into ireland having an awesome time, have seen most of the big airports and alot of the really small ones in the uk. Really demanding flying though - I did about 500 hours (which is below average) and most of that was in the height of summer - and you've got to have good handling skills. Anyway - my time has come and I'm off to fly twins now.

Just thought I'd share it as it's an alternative way into the industry and a relatively low cost one.

cheers

[Finals19]

hey, can anyone who knows any thing about fixed wing firefighting in canda and what kind of flight experience is required
Dabeuk..

Conair, based in Abbotsford, British Columbia is one of the biggest firefighting outfits out here.

www.conair.ca

Requirements are 3000hrs with ATPL and a huge amount of PIC time due to the nature of their work. Your start of on their "bird dog" aircraft before going onto their Convairs.

[hakim]

Hello,
I'm 21 now, I have always dreamed of a flying career (I read lots of people in this forum do). Until now I do not poses any kind of licence except a hang glider licence, some sail plane hours and countless model plane hours. I am not intressted in getting an airline job as I want to fly rather then press buttons. I am not sure about the route I should take, I am very intressted in a "bush flying" job and a like. I do not care much about the wages, I'd work for bread and water, I'm also 100% flexible about location and working hours.

What would be the best route to get into this kind of flying? privatly finance the CPL? Are there other routes? I guess sponsorship is out of question, What kind of school history do I need?

What other alternative flying jobs are out there? Until now I know of banner towing, anti hail flying, tourist tours, photo flying and agrar flying.

I would very much appriciate any help,

Hakim

[HMCG]

Basically what he said, but with no hang gliders and more powered hours...

There's not a hope in hell of my ever affording an ATPL (or flying my dream Gooney-Bird), so what's available out in the big bad world with a CPL, or are they just a commercial equivalent of the NPPL? What is Australia like for jobs? It's big, they must need pilots...

Oh, and hi, everyone. First post and all that.

[PatTheDog]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum guys but if anybody can help!

I am a newbie flight instructor in Australia and due to work opportunities will be doing a conversion to work in the UK.

As with anywhere in the world small time pilots are struggling to grab those first jobs, so I was wondering how many hours will be required to be snapped up over there?

Also anything on conditions would be greatly appreciated.


I will be looking for work in a King air or similar.

Regards,

Pat