View Full Version : Searching for TR 737 partner
Hi guys,
I'm evaluating the possibility to get a TR on 737 and two Training centres give us a little discount if we go there already in two people. Is there somebody interested?
The following are the costs:
- Sabena Flight Academy (special prices "summer camp" until September): 737 Classic 23000 € base check INCLUDED (flight tickets to get to Bruxelles discounted if flying with SN Bruxelles); plus a little discount but not a lot to save for two people cause the prices are already with discount. They also say "about 60 airlines in contact with us to find you the first job" (mah...)
Next start date: 17th July.
- Intercockpit: 737 Classic+NG about 26-27000€ base check INCLUDED and 3% discount if going already in two people. Note: CBT sent to your home in a laptop so you can save hotel money for about 15 days. They have also the Job Engine. Starting date on request.
These are two good offers with high standard training (Sabena and Lufthansa), the first one is very good but no NG differential course (only in september 2007), the second one include the NG with a good price.
Please, I know that paying for a TR without hours on it it's not heaven but don't let this thread become the same as many others. Reply only if interested or with advices for jobs :)
Regards,
Davide
Sandshrew
25th Jun 2006, 12:17
You can find JAA type rating on the B737 for 14400 Euro, hotel included and you don’t need to find a partner.
Are talking about Randhem? I know them, and 14400 is without base check (5000€) only the 737 Classic without help to find a job. But if you guess another one, please tell me :)
Davide
Norrington
25th Jun 2006, 13:35
Randhem has the B737 -NG rating as well.
Yes but are two different course. They don't supply (I know, maybe wrong) Classic + NG with a price less then intercockpit package.
Davide
Norrington
25th Jun 2006, 13:57
Why do you need both?
Just to have more chances to find a job. For the entire course (from -300 to -900 series) it's about 27-28000 all included.
Davide
Norrington
25th Jun 2006, 14:18
If the airline requires you to have both, you only have to do a difference course. And in most case the airline will arrange it for you.
Don’t pay extra for things you don’t need!
You don’t buy an A320 and B737 just to have more chases to get a job, do you? ;)
I know that, but no airlines pay for a differtial course a young pilot! Cause maybe there is another one with your same experience with already th NG.
It's not like 2 type rating, but as in one course you pay less than making first Classic then differential....(the last that surely you have to pay...)
Davide
Norrington
25th Jun 2006, 14:29
I know it's not like two different type ratings, if fact the difference is not that big between NG and classic.
My advice to you. Do the classic rating, (cheaper).
If the airline requires you to have the NG do a difference course, otherwise no
If you want to get a job quick, invest your money on hours on type instead.
One side of the coin could be the right choice, but the other side says that if I apply myself to a NG Airline and other pilots are applying with the NG already printed on the licence, the airline doesn't wait for me to get the differential course....
With only 300 hours you can't say "Ok, I'm more experienced of that guys that have 250 but with NG"..... there is no plusvalue.
But, if I was a 3000 TT of wich 1500 on turboprop, 737 classic TR, I think the airline could tell me "Ok, go for TR on 737 NG".
I DON'T spend money to build airlines hours, never! It's enought depressing to spend money for the TR.
Best regards
Davide
I did a TR on the NG and unfortunately I found out that finding a job isn't easy at all, especially not after 6 months...
So what I would do if I was you; Do the type rating on either the NG or the CL, and then wait and see how the job situation develops. If you still haven't found a job after 6 months, do the difference training. That way you can say that you have been current within the last six months which is a requirement by many airlines.
And by the way; No matter what, you will still have to do some training with the airline before you can fly on-line. E.g. at Thomsonfly you will have to do approx 5 days of theory and a few sessions on the simulator. -And that is the same for everybody, also the experienced pilots, so I am pretty sure that it will count as difference training, if required.
But to give you a real advice on this matter... Don't do it without a job guarantee, or at least the possibility to purchase line training.
I don't know any low timers who have done a type rating on the 737 during the past year who has found a job without paying for line training... And that includes about 10-15 pilots...
I have been fortunate enough to be employed by Tfly on the 757/767 fleet, so I never get a chance to use my rating...
But that’s is just an advice from a fellow pilot who have been down that road as well...
Good luck! ;o)
Where did you attend the TR?
I know instead 3 guys that had the 737 classic employed here in italy (2 of 3 without raccomandation! It's quite strange here :) )
Davide
Hi again.
Well I did my rating with DanFly-aviation. Which was very terrible in my opinion!! However we were moved to CAE in Amsterdam half way through the course, so it turned out to be just fine... But CAE holds the credit for that!
Among the pilots that I am referring to, are pilots from both Flügschule Berlin and DanFly-Aviation. However the school really doesn’t matter when you have the endorsement in your license. The only thing that matters is any possible arrangements/connections the TRTO's have. However most of the time they are just telling you stories in order to make sure that you enrol on there course...
A good way to see how many pilots who actually have found a job, is to check the TRTO's web-sides as they normally write about any pilots hired directly from there TRTO's, which normally is limited to a very few....
Why don't you try your luck with CTC? That is a much more safe way to spend your money - I think!
Why don't you try your luck with CTC? That is a much more safe way to spend your money - I think!
Why didn't you that?
I'm not sure of their assessments/money unrefundable. I don't want to be moved out and spent 5000€.
But I'll inform for that.
However the school really doesn’t matter when you have the endorsement in your license. The only thing that matters is any possible arrangements/connections the TRTO's have
That's true too.
Did you try to send your CV to ALL airlines with 737? Africa, middle east, Asia?
Davide
Another thing: how many hours had you when applied to Tfly?
Honestly, did you know some important person that helped you? Sorry for this question but I would like to know if out of Italy exist many of this kind of situations.
Davide
Concerning CTC. I didn't try CTC, because I thought doing the TR was a better choice. However this turned out to be a bad call... If I should spend the money again I would definitely try my luck with CTC, as most of the major airlines in the UK accept low timers from CTC.. And you only have to pay 164, 50 pounds for the selection... And I am pretty sure that you won't be offered a space on there course unless they are sudden that you will make it... Because they have MANY applicants..
http://www.ctcaviation.com/wings/0403.html
When I applied to Tfly I had 210 hours, and with no relatives or friends who could help me in. ;o)
And yes I have send CV's to all possible airlines, but most of them didn't even reply.... And I was only invited once, and that was with Tfly...
/BAP
CTC tells on the wings programme that you have to pass the Airline qualification course before advancing to the Type Rating phase (done with the airline that hire you and it pay your TR). As the ACQ cost is about 5500 to 6500 $ (about 10000€), if you don't pass the ACQ you lose your money! I think it's so, if not correct me. On the page "selection" it seems so...
Davide
clearfortheoption
26th Jun 2006, 10:17
If you don't pass the TR then you lose E 28000!!!
The AQC is a course designed to prepare you for the TR.It's a much better scheme than "pay your own rating and good luck finding a job",as it will give you a job at the end of it.
whatever your choice I wish you the best of luck,it's a jungle out there.
Ciao
invisiblemoon
26th Jun 2006, 11:58
Guys, i've already spread my opinion about it but i'll try again and perhaps you won't lose your hard earned money in a useless piece of paper.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
I can only join invisiblemoon on this matter. As already stated I am rated on the 737 as well - There is 4 days left before it will expiry.
I have tried to apply to almost every airline in the world, and most of the times the airlines don't even bother sending you a reply...
And this is the same with the other guys I know...
Fortunately I have now found a job, but not on the 737...
So stay away from the 737. In Denmark the GA market is starting to need pilots, and I guess its the same in other countries. But in order to get these jobs you will have to show up in person... Before I got the job with Tfly, I was employed by a small GA company, working in the administration and as pilot on demand, with the possibility of flying more and more...
So perhaps the good old road to the right seat is starting to be an option again...
Good luck...
Guys, i've already spread my opinion about it but i'll try again and perhaps you won't lose your hard earned money in a useless piece of paper.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
In my opinion: forget the typerating on ANY aircraft unless you are certain to have a job. . People seem to forget that a rating can expire and to keep it valid it will bring extra costs. So just keep your money with the bank and try to find something else in aviation (instructor, towing gliders....).
Good luck to all
Global Pilot
26th Jun 2006, 13:31
"I know it's not like two different type ratings, if fact the difference is not that big between NG and classic.
My advice to you. Do the classic rating, (cheaper).
If the airline requires you to have the NG do a difference course, otherwise no
If you want to get a job quick, invest your money on hours on type instead."
If you only have 300hours total, do a classic rating then no ailine will offer you a differences course unless you have 100hours on type but if you have NG rating then you can do a differences course to a classic model if required by the operator.
"I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed." - Invisible moon, have you and your buddies approached Ryanair? They are hiring people with NG ratings and no hours on type. It wont be advertised on their website but they have taken on guys in a similar situation to you.
invisiblemoon
26th Jun 2006, 13:50
Global Pilot, thank with your advice but i don't know how they managed to get in without hours on type, as they require 100h as an absolute minimum when you are already type rated (NG or not).
Perhaps they know some highly experienced captains working there.
As far as the online application form is concerned, I don't know wether to apply or not without the minimums because i don't want to be dismissed from employment but i think i should reconsider, what do you think about it ?
Please PM if you've any additionnal info
boogie-nicey
26th Jun 2006, 14:06
If you buy a TR then think of buying some line training/experience too. Like electrical devices you still have to buy the plug to make it work or a camera without memory is of no use. When considering TR think how am I going to make it effective? Without some or even any time on type you have little chance of progressing further.
However once you go along the type rating path and also factor in line experience time then the true cost will equal or suepersede your original fATPL costs! Think very carefully, it's no good closing your eyes and thinking it'll be different for you because why would it be. One thing is for sure and that's the large cost/debt and that isn't going to go away for anyone.
If people can pay for TRSS then why not gain 1000hrs by instructing and even if you get paid nothing for it then at least you can live on the money that you would have spent on the TR. Just a thought I personally will go along the TR and Line experience but that's because I can afford it without going to the bank, I realise that not everyone is in that circumstance so tread carefully and please, please THINK before being allured into what you may or may not need.
Good luck to all.....:ok:
If I tell you I find something like:
737 NG+Classic = 22000 euros (all included); and the possibility to do line training for FREE, and if not doing line training or fund a job within 1 year, the first Proficiency check for keep it valid for the second year will be FREE; How do you think about that?
DAvide
boogie-nicey
27th Jun 2006, 08:52
Dmax: Please do ellaborate on that, line training included as part of the package, wow ! Where...?
:}
I'm still waiting a reply with details.
You know how saying goes; If it sounds too good to be true, then it probably is. :suspect:
I know :suspect:
But once you put a signature on a contract that include all you request, legally you are right.
Just informing better.....
Davide
Hogbergs
27th Jun 2006, 11:17
Sounds like Flugshule Berlin....
A320rider
28th Jun 2006, 00:42
Guys, i've already spread my opinion about it but i'll try again and perhaps you won't lose your hard earned money in a useless piece of paper.
I have a 737CL+NG TR since march when employment market was even better than it is today, three of my closest friends have the same rating and we are ALL still unemployed.
I have send approx 80 tailored letters all reviewed by english natives (i'm not) to avoid any spelling or grammatical mistakes, so nothing's wrong on my side.
Sad but true some TRTO are also selling hours on that type. Guess what ? The waiting list ist endless, about 1 year long.
The actual situation on the 737 market ?
TR without hours = no chance at all
TR with 100h = not better, in fact only ryanair could employ you
In my opinion you should try another type (turboprop especially) because the 737 TR is so "cheap" nowadays that everybody is jumping on it.
Actually this rating is totally useless unless you have hours on type in a fairly large amount (probably 500 on type but i would'nt bet on it). Believe me, i'm on the 737 market right now, so i know what i'm talking about.
I really don't know what to expect with +500 on type, i suppose you *could* find employement in a 6-12 month timeframe.
maybe you should change your attitdue. It is hot about employment ,here in UK (scroggs' theory).
the best employer is eaglejet for a net salary of 35'000$.try them...
(salary you have to pay to their boss, ahah!!)
do not pay for a t/r with no job guaranty!and having an expired t/r does not help very much...
and still, TRTO are full of students who wont find a job and will be in deepest problems with their bank, family,...!!!
Norrington
11th Jul 2006, 09:39
If I tell you I find something like:
737 NG+Classic = 22000 euros (all included); and the possibility to do line training for FREE, and if not doing line training or fund a job within 1 year, the first Proficiency check for keep it valid for the second year will be FREE; How do you think about that?
DAvide
Where did you find that?
The lowest I could find is this one:
737 NG+Classic = 22 700 Euros. (base check included)
17700 type rating + 5000 base check. /www.randhem.com
animal2k6
24th Jul 2006, 18:54
How can anyone justify spending in excess of £50,000 GBP in order to gain a job , are you crazy ??
Even having completed your training your chances of employment remain unchanged. If pilots are desperatly required then more airlines would run sponsorship programmes to accomodate for the increase in vacancies.
This forum consists of a significant number of people who all seek the same thing , a chance to become a commercial airline pilot. Having completed your training you all resort to a forum then surely the airline industry isn't looking as promising as your training partners are expressing.
Can you name me another career that people pay in excess of £50,000 gbp in order to successfuly gain employment .... hmmmm
You are willing to pay a ridiculous sum of money which offers no future guarantee of employment in order to fulfil a "dream" .... become a glorified bus driver . I commend you :D
hixton
25th Jul 2006, 04:13
Ha Ha,
wheres the glorified bit in getting up for a 4am shift?
carbheaton
25th Jul 2006, 10:58
Can you name me another career that people pay in excess of £50,000 gbp in order to successfuly gain employment .... hmmmm
Animal2k6 - Off the top of my head try surgeon, doctor, anaesthetist dentist, psychologist, psychiatrist, optician, barrister, solicitors, accountant, surveyors and anybody with a third level degree higher than ordinary – Masters, PhD etc.
If you aim low enough, the state might just provide you with a shovel or brush. After the revoloution you might be able to demand a right seat for free but for now you have to pay
Kazakhstan
25th Jul 2006, 12:08
To Carbheaton
Good Call. Animal2k6- it seems you do not have all the facts to hand. Being a "glorified bus driver" is one of the best jobs in the world. I have worked in the airline industry as crew, true it is not as glamorous as it used to be however it's still a good way to make a living. The airline I worked for was good, we were catered for positioned and provided with hotels such as the Hilton with discounted food and drinks while on night stops and stop overs.
I also have spent some of my life working in offices, from the impression I get from you, no offence ment but, that is where you seem to belong. I have met one or two pilots who have told me that spending the money was not worth it but then they don't enjoy the work and they too should go back to 9-5 monday to friday packed into hot and stuffy tubes, where the only thing you look forward to is getting so drunk on Friday night that you forget how crap the week has just been.
The benefits of being an Airline Pilot are, from my point of veiw:
1) Working within a team of people who love what they do and choose to be there. We have a lot of laughs both at work and out of work. I have made a lot of friends, we all share the same interests and aircrew know how to enjoy themselves and have fun.
2) The smell of JET A1, great!!!
3) Turing up for work knowing that you are going somewhere different. Being able to say today I went to Sharm-El-Sheikh. You will most likely only spend 1 hour on the ground for the turn around but 15 mins of sun on your face helps make it a good day, when everyone in England is cold and wet.
4) The view out of the window, you get to see many things that will amaze you and take your breath away. Best office view in the world, bar astronauts.
5) Not having to spend the entire day staring at a computer screen stressing about meeting deadlines and not looking forward to the long que at the sandwich place.
6) Not having to take our work home with us. when we get home we can chill out and go out for dinner.
7) not having to say I am going to work, its not work its fun!
8) discounts at hotels and bars all over the world, they like aircrew. Miami is great place to go.
9) Discounts on flight, be it on more of the major operators however there are organisations that sell discounted tickets. First or Business class on 10% airfare, can't complain.
10) Good pay with most airlines.
11) Good amount of holiday.
12) most good airlines will give you a roster a month to half month in advance, so you can make plans, jut make sure not to make plans during standby days.
13 the list is endless and I can't be bothered to name the rest.
To round off I have spend about £45K by now and it is worth it!!
DMAX, I know a few people who have been in aviaiton for 40 years and have given me some advise. DO NOT go to Sabena, it is not as good as you hear it is. Go somewhere else. I will not go there!
At Farnborough CAE said they were trying to solve gloabal pilot shortages. They train pilots for Ryanair in Amsterdam, I am waiting to hear from them as I am looking into paying for a type rating with a view to being placed by the training organistation. At the moment I do not have the luxruy of being able to wait two to three months for a sim check with an airline. so I am looking around. I also have been told not to go with any Belgian companies other than those linked to Lufthansa.
I would go Classic / NG less time the airlines needs to spend training you, plus some people take time converting to glass cockpit and find the FMS hard.
I would not rule out the Airbus family or the 757 as there are position out there for 75/76 people.
Again no one can offer a gurantee of placement because it is down to the person, are they employable they might have all the licences but the wrong frame of mind.
I know a few people who self funded a type rating, they did have job offers at the end but they had to pay for it themselves. They self funded the whole course around £100k in total with living expenses, and now they have jobs and are gaining experience, so it is worth spending the money as no one else in this country is going to help you. The government does not see general aviation as an industry so no help from them. However become a nurse, doctor or lawyer and you will get a lot of help form the government so maybe the peole who think airline pilots are just bus drivers with wings should seek those industries plus soon you will be able to buy a chep house on a flood plane in Kent, excellent!
Good luck to all those who take a chance to change their lives, if you truely love it, it will be worth it when you succeed.
All the best, Borat.