JAR PPL training:how long untill first landing?

[acuba 290]

Just a question about JAR PPL training system in UK. How long it takes for a student to start with landings/touch 'n go? And how long it takes from your experience to get landing experience? How many hour training?

[DBo]

I was allowed to control pitch roll & flaps during the landing on my trial flight (the instructor sorted out throttle & rudder).We did 1 touch & go and the final landing.

[Confabulous]

My first landing was on my first lesson, and one for each lesson after that. It really depends on the instructor's opinion (correct or not) of your abilities - your own opinion won't count for much that early in your training, as you won't have anything to compare with. Be assured though, it's far easier then you might think. :ok:

[bencoulthard]

With my 1st instructor I took off and landed from day 1. Don't be too worried though, after my 2nd landing I'd have been happy to never do another, I think my instructor was asleep, he wasn't saying anything or correcting me so I assumed I was doing fine until we bounced.

My new instructor I've had 2:30 with and he said I will do my 1st tomorrow, I'll let y'all know how that went in my PPL diary

Ben

[acuba 290]

i started yesterday. first 3 hours we did flying controls, and today 3 hours climb and descend. Instructor don't let me taxi, take off or communication. He said, that tomorrow we make stalls and circuits etc. I don't know wenn we start with landings, so what do you think about it? Is it ok? Our briefing after the flight takes maximum 3 minutes, and i think i have much more to discuss with him, but he has then next student and no time for me...
I spoked with my friend, who is FAA CFI and he said, that in USA his student starts with take off on first lesson etc.

what do you think about it?

[Phil Parry]

Just make sure that the number of landings you do is in direct proportion to the number of takeoffs ;)

[modelman]

Good to see you are flying.
I would consider 3 hours a day a lot at first-no time to reflect on what you have achieved.
I get a good 30 mins briefing with diagrams and a 10 minute debrief plus any other discussion during the taxy back to the apron.
Try to get some idea of the following lesson so you can revise from your books,although your schedule is not giving you much time for this.
I was allowed to taxi from day 1 and radio use soon followed ( I train at an international airport so plenty going on with r/t). I bought an airband radio so I can listen to the ATC for other pilots taxy instruction and check the ATIS so I have a mental picture of likely taxy instructions and wind corrections required well before my lesson.
Being a more 'mature' student,I need every help I can get!

Good luck and enjoy.
Modelman

[acuba 290]

but i just can't imagine, how to fly solo after 25 dual hours, wenn after 6 hours i can not taxi, take off or we are not doing any landing training...
Other problem, that we are not doing any briefing at all...My ins don't have time for it, he has next student waiting at the at the airplane

[modelman]

I solo'd today after 19 hours total:) .
I changed flying schools after 7 hours as I felt I was not getting any real instruction and consider my 'real' training started then.
My current school always runs a bit late but there is a good reason for this-they don't just boot you out of the a/c but will spend the time to answer your questions.
Shop around,this is an expensive thing and you have the right to expect some real value for money.
I spent a whole day visiting new airfields-speak to other students there
I have to drive further to where I am now but what's another £5 for petrol worth if you are happier at a different place.
Modelman

[rjt194]

but i just can't imagine, how to fly solo after 25 dual hours, wenn after 6 hours i can not taxi, take off or we are not doing any landing training...
Other problem, that we are not doing any briefing at all...My ins don't have time for it, he has next student waiting at the at the airplane

Seriously, speak to the chief instructor at your school about this. If they agree with your instructors practice then change schools; otherwise insist on a change of instructor or you'll change schools. You must have proper briefs and debriefs in order to know what you are going to be doing in the lesson and to consolidate your groundschool with your flying. As for not having any control of the aircraft on the ground I cannot understand. On your first or second sortie you should at least be following through with the instructor on both take off and landing unless there is a very good reason not to. After that theres a gradual transition to the instructor following through as you do more of the work.

The bottom line is that if your not happy go elsewhere. It's your money.

[foxmoth]

On your first or second sortie you should at least be following through with the instructor on both take off and landing unless there is a very good reason not to.
I think this will very much depend on the instructor and whilst many will have you taking off and landing right from the word go, others will wait until a bit further on - but most will at least be letting you have a go before 6 hours. I am very surprised though at the lack of briefing and the fact that you have not been taxiing the aircraft. I do not know any UK instructors that would not have you taxiing by the second lesson at the latest.:=

[acuba 290]

thanx a lot for your tips, i will talk to my head of training tonight about all that things...

[Pilotdom]

Ive just completed my 11th hour dual and have been told that next lesson im going solo. I was takeing off and landing from lesson 1 obviously with the instructor watching every move incase anything happend. Taxied on first lesson and radio work started about 3rd lesson. When coming back from the training area i joined the circuit and learned about decending deadside etc etc. I receive a 5 min briefing in the aircraft (before engine start) and also talk about lesson taxi back in and also about 10 mins in aircraft after engine shutdown and also 10 mins back at club house while sorting paper work etc etc.

[Whirlybird]

acuba,

I'm a helicopter instructor, so things are a little different, but not that different. And I do have a PPL(A) as well.

This is a very difficult area. The first few hours of training are extremely important. Some instructors rush through it, but in my experience, if the student doesn't really understand fully what each control does, and secondary effects too, then he/she will struggle later on. Similarly with being able to do each exercise. If straight and level, turns, climbing and descending isn't pretty automatic, you'll struggle in the circuit, and learn bad habits that will be difficult to correct later on.

Now, to make things harder, students vary hugely in their aptitude and how quickly they pick things up. Some, you show them once, and they can do it. (Lucky sods, I never could. :( ) Others, you show them a dozen times, and they still can't remember the carb heat on descent, or they still drop the nose in a turn.

There's no shame in being like the second type of student, though training might take you a bit longer. But it can be demoralising for the student, and hard for the instructor to know what to do. Some students just can't handle doing lesson 6 - yet again! So you let them do a bit of radio, or take-off, or landing, giving them a bit of help to make them feel they're progressing. Or maybe doing something different will actually help get them out of the rut; that works sometimes too.

Then again, people teach differently; there's no one "right" way. Some of us do it by the book - lesson 4, then 5, then 6, and so on. Some prefer to do a bit of everything, with some students, if not all. Some vary the way they teach for all sorts of reasons. The weather, and in particular the wind, may come into it too. so may the airfield - you'll teach landing earlier at an airfield with a long, wide runway, than a short, narrow field between hills with a main road on the undershoot.

However, one or two things in your posts do worry me. One is the lack of briefings. Your instructor is probably horribly busy - we all are, at this time of year. But he should MAKE time for at least short briefings. Secondly, I worry about the lack of communication. Not on the radio, but between you and your instructor, or you and someone at the school. You need to have a word with either your instructor, or the CFI, about how you feel. I recently told a student about why I felt we should do a bit more of climbing and descending etc, as I sensed he was getting fed up. But not all instructors pick up on a student's worries, especially if they're busy, and the student is not that communicative. So you do have to say.

If you don't feel that any of this will work, or even if it does but you're still concerned, try another instructor, or even another school. That might give you a bit of perspective on the whole thing.

Finally, please, please try not to compare yourself with others, as to your progress. We're all different, and we all learn flying differently. If it's taking you a longer time than someone else, don't beat yourself up over it. Firstly, you'll get so stressed that it'll take you even longer....been there, done that. Secondly, the rate you learn says nothing about how good or bad a pilot you'll be in the end, really; trust me on that.

[Fuji Abound]

"Finally, please, please try not to compare yourself with others, as to your progress. We're all different, and we all learn flying differently. If it's taking you a longer time than someone else, don't beat yourself up over it. Firstly, you'll get so stressed that it'll take you even longer....been there, done that. Secondly, the rate you learn says nothihg about how good or bad a pilot you'll be in the end, really; trust me on that."

Acuba - I can only reiterate what wise words these are.

What ever you do the rate of progress or the order of progress should not be the sole reason for changing instrcutors.

[acuba 290]

Ive just completed my 11th hour dual and have been told that next lesson im going solo. I was takeing off and landing from lesson 1 obviously with the instructor watching every move incase anything happend. Taxied on first lesson and radio work started about 3rd lesson. When coming back from the training area i joined the circuit and learned about decending deadside etc etc. I receive a 5 min briefing in the aircraft (before engine start) and also talk about lesson taxi back in and also about 10 mins in aircraft after engine shutdown and also 10 mins back at club house while sorting paper work etc etc.
thats exactly the way i was expecting actually! congratulations with solo permission;)

ps i've been flown with other instructor today, we made 3 type of stalls and already maked my first landing after 9 Hours...Tomorrow we'll start circuits...

[Pilotdom]

AS has been said above, every instructor and student have different ways in which they teach and learn. I am a believer in having 1 instructor throughout training as I have found this the best way. You build up a realationship and almost friendship. My instructor is not shy in telling me if I had a s**t landing,he tells me straight and next time I do it better. Also I can say I dont understand something and he explains again. We also have a laugh and joke and it makes for a much more relaxed atmosphere. Nobody can get on with everybody and you just have to find the instructor you get on best with and it will all fall into place. Congrats on starting circuits,a feww hours in the circuit and you will soon be landing and takeing-off no problem,touch and goes,Engine failures after take-off,glide approaches etc, enjoy!

[Felix Saddler]

I just had my first Lesson and i did everything apart from R/T - even preflight while FI booked out!!