PPL In USA Advice?

[bakoo]

Hey, i am looking to do my PPL at the end of August this year, i have a budget of no more than £4000, is this possible?

I have looked at loads and loads of ads in Pilot and Flyer but i am so confused on who is the best on where the hidden fee's are. What hidden fees should i be looking out for and what schools, if any, are no no's.


Thanks for any help...

[tangovictor]

think, long & hard before training in another country, what if, you need extra hours, to complete your training ! your return flight has been pre booked, or you arrive back in the UK, still needing some training, even if its radio procedure, Learn where your going to fly,

[Seagull61]

Learning to fly in the country where you are going to fly isn't always an option.

For example, i live in Norway, but am a British Citizen. I speak a little of the local lingo, but by no means enough to sit the PPL exams. Thus, i am off to AAA in September to take my PPL and then to transfer my license to Norway upon my return.

I am however having regular lessons at the local club here, which is introducing me to the flying in the area where i will eventually fly - but i cannot complete the course here.

[bakoo]

Hey, maybe i am looking at it wrong, but the way i see it, it will cost around £500 less in the USA, which aint much, but i get a four week holiday and can use that £500 to get 6 hours back in the UK. Plus i can get a Night Qual with OBA. It is £3800 then add £120 for an extra week as i am sure it will take a week more than the 21 days. There is also a £20 cleaning fee and i am assuming when UK flight schools quote £4700, etc they dont include JAA Medical, JAA Licence issue fees etc? Any alternatives around Europe?

[night hawk 150]

i get a four week holiday

you can't do the training and have a holiday as you will be working so hard on the ppl to even think of a holiday.

I have looked to do my ppl in the usa however when you get back to the UK you still have other things to pay for which would use you excess money you save.

The only good thing is a great location to fly with go weather, i must add that if you choose to do your ppl in the USA, just remember to go over your RT for the UK and have a check ride or two.

Craig

[mcgoo]

I have looked to do my ppl in the usa however when you get back to the UK you still have other things to pay for which would use you excess money you save.
Craig

like what?

[Henry Hallam]

Learning to fly in the US isn't exactly a 4 week holiday but it's still a hell of a good time and I think a worthwhile experience. I have absolutely no regrets about going that route. Once back in the UK, in fact even after a 3 month gap, I was converted from C152 to C172 and signed off by my club in 3 hours.

[Florida mud wrestler]

I don't think that you will be getting a holiday because, make no mistake, doing a PPL is not going to be a breeze, but, you will have one heck of a good experience. Funny thing, the people who insist that the USA route is the wrong route are the people who have trained in the UK. Well, I suppose that they have to try to justify the wasted time and money somehow!:\

[BroomstickPilot]

Bakoo,

I note that some people have suggested you should do your PPL in the UK. I disagree: I would say don't. Go to the US. You will not need to get your FAA PPL exchanged for a UK one at all. You can fly perfectly legally in the UK on an FAA PPL indefinitely, because both the UK and the USA are ICAO countries, (ICAO means International Commercial Aviation Organisation, a body set up by the UN to regulate commercial aviation internationally). ICAO countries automatically recognise one another's PPL licences. You only need the licence of the country in which you intend to fly if your intend becoming a professional pilot. Even then, you can go direct from your FAA PPL straight to a JAA ATPL, without having to get a JAA PPL.

I have just revalidated my British PPL in the UK after many years of being 'expired'. I had thought it would cost no more than £4,000 and take a couple of months. In fact, despite being available to fly full time, despite having all the money required on tap and despite being based in the relatively much drier South of England, it still took 20 months and cost in excess of £7,000!

Admittedly, some of this was due to poor instructors: I walked out of two clubs last summer and had to start all over again at a new club each time. By far the worst obstacle, however, was UK weather. At least two thirds of my bookings were cancelled from that cause alone. In 2004, between July and December I booked a whole week's flying six times and cancelled it all, one day at a time; and that was in 'dry' Central Southern England, Northern weather was much worse!

My advice would be to go to the US, where you will have an FAA PPL licence within six weeks. (It doesn't matter which country issues the PPL as long as it is an ICAO country, and the USA is an ICAO country). Then at least, you will have a valid licence 'in the bag'. It won't be a holiday; it will be damned hard work, but enjoyable and worthwhile.

You should then be prepared to put in a further several hours at a British club on your return before being allowed to exercise the privileges of your licence. You will need this to learn to cope with UK weather and our extra complex airspace and busy radio. It sounds convoluted, but will be very much quicker and cheaper in the long run.

If you must train at a UK club or FTO, I would say do it in the Winter. The weather between October and March is much more stable and it is easier to control a light aeroplane without being thrown about by thermal activity. You will also have much less flying cancelled owing to bad weather.

Forgive me mentioning this, but since your training budget is so tight, are you sure you are going to have enough money available to keep yourself 'current' after your return. Don't answer this question on this thread; just recognise that this will be an issue to which you need to have an answer that satisfies you.

Good luck: I hope you are successful.

Broomstick.

[aw8565]

I have read all of the above and found it most helpful so my thanks to all who have contributed, Broomstick especially.

Just wondered if anyone had any comments about UKFT? They have a school at Lancaster (open only for PPL(H) for the next 6 weeks apparently) and one in Long Beach which is where I'm hoping to go in August. I've got about 25 hours and just want to get the PPL done as I started AGES ago!

Anyone's personal experiences or any hearsay would be greatly appreciated...

Andy

[MOCA]

I have both UK CPL and FAA ME/I and I would suggest the following:
By all means do your PPL abroad - you will save money - however it will cost a LOT more than you think it will - its likely you will need more time and there are a lot of hidden extras that they don't advertise suck as tax and fuel surcharge - but it will still be cheaper in the USA.
Do not do an FAA PPL - it is much harder that the CAA PPL: you only have one written exam, fair enough, and they do publish all the answers, but not only will you have to learn a lot of regulations and stuff that you don't need, much of it will be of no use to you outside America. The hardest part of the FAA PPL is the oral exam - you have an unlimited 'test' with an examiner who can ask you whatever they like - and they can fail you without even seeing you fly. My oral exam was nearly an hour long - and most of it about USA regulations which are useless for you flying in the UK - and there are a lot of them, buy a copy of FAR/AIM and find out, you m,ight as well as you have to learn it.
True, there are more CAA exams - however these are relevant to flying in the UK - the oral will be almost non-existant and the flying test will also be much easier than the FAA test - various exercises such as turns around a point and S Turns aren't required by the CAA.
Whetever you chose. budget for more time than they say you'll need and expect to spend some time with an examiner here when you come back - schools will not hire a plane to you unless they've checked me out, and believe me eyou will need a couple of hours with an instructor here even if you do a CAA PPL - much more time will be required if you do an FAA PPL.
If you do the CAA PPL take all your exams here before you go: that's one of the most time consuming elements.

[Henry Hallam]

I really don't think the FAA oral exam is very hard, I haven't taken the JAA tests but would say it's probably easier than those. And only perhaps 1/4 of it is US regulations. It's not as if a single mistake will fail you, as long as you have a reasonable examiner. Mine was very friendly and it was more of a discussion than anything else. He is mainly wanting to make sure that you have a sensible understanding of the information needed to fly safely, and that if you don't know something, you do know where to go to find it out.

The FAA written exam is multiple choice and basically common sense, I tried the practice test and got a passing mark without having done more than a cursory read through the textbook... I did learn it more thoroughly before taking the real thing and got about 95%.

My "UK conversion", combined with C172 conversion and de-rusting after 3 months of not flying, took 3 hours.

Advantages of FAA PPC: Available at a lot more US flight schools, includes mandatory night training (and grants night priveleges), can fly on an FAA class 3 medical which is not as strict as a class 2, lower minimum no. of hours (though you will probably need more than this).
You can later add an FAA IR for instrument priveleges, allowing you to fly IFR in airways etc in an N-reg aircraft and with similar priveleges to an IMC rating in a G-reg aircraft.
You *CAN* fly a G-reg aircraft internationally on an FAA private ticket. (check the ANO)
No minimum no. of hours flown to keep your rating, but you should be doing plenty anyway for safety.

Disadvantages of FAA PPC: have to return to the US every two years, or find an FAA instructor in Britain, to revalidate your certificate with a "flight review". But if you miss this deadline there is no penalty unlike the JAA licence where you must take a much more comprehensive test if you don't revalidate within 24 months.
Similar restrictions to get a tailwheel signoff.
Can't attach UK IMC rating, but you can get an FAA IR for similar money.

In the end, for a private pilot with no immediate commercial intentions, the decision of FAA/JAA PPL is not as critical as whether to learn in the states or the UK. IMHO - I would recommend FAA, in the states.

[MOCA]

Having done both, from experience I can say that the CAA is easier.
Regardless of this, if you are going to fly you should not take the easy option, you should take the one most appropriate for the country you will be flying in.
It is pointless to learn all the FAA regulations if you will be flying in the UK.

[nosefirst]

Irrespective of where you learn, I would say that a budget of £4000 is very optimistic. I have just completed my FAA PPL and I would estimate that including all my flights, accommodation etc I spent around £7500. I have now flown 90 hours. In my case it would have been less expensive to stay in the UK.
However, the USA is ideal for basic training for a few good reasons:
Good weather means an intensive course is possible, less time spent revising earlier flights because of weather delays etc.
No landing fees, which is great for circuit practice and getting the hang of those landings. I did 188 of them in the month I was there which would have cost me a fortune at my local airfield :mad:
It is good to be able to shed your daily life for a few weeks and concentrate on just one thing, but as others have said, its no holiday.
Pros for the UK
Er... weather. Flying in clear blue skies all the time makes you very wary of flying in marginal conditions in the UK.
Airspace and RT rules and regulations are very different in the USA so you will need to revise these with an instructor when you return to the UK. If you will do most of your flying in the UK then it makes sense to learn here.
Good luck whatever you decide :ok:

[172driver]

Bakoo,
I note that some people have suggested you should do your PPL in the UK. I disagree: I would say don't. Go to the US. You will not need to get your FAA PPL exchanged for a UK one at all. You can fly perfectly legally in the UK on an FAA PPL indefinitely, because both the UK and the USA are ICAO countries, (ICAO means International Commercial Aviation Organisation, a body set up by the UN to regulate commercial aviation internationally). ICAO countries automatically recognise one another's PPL licences.
Broomstick.

If only...:( While Broomstick is correct that the UK recognizes an FAA PPL, this is not the case in other countries. If you want to fly a/c registered in another European country you will need a JAR license or a certificate of recognition, which varies in cost and validity from country to country.

That said, I wholeheartedly concur with Broomstick, it's a lot better to do the license in the US - you simply learn more (tin hat now on....), including night VFR.

Then, after you've flown a while (I think it's 100 hours), you can pretty easily convert your FAA to a JAA (CAA) license.

A holiday, mon cher bakoo, it won't be, however. If you intend to do a PPL in 4 weeks, then you won't do much else other than studying and flying. Then again, that's what you want, don't you ! I would suggest you do as much studying at home before going to the US, say while waiting for your visa (you can buy the study materials at Transair or similar outfits), and sit the written asap after your arrival in the US. This way, you've got this worry out of the way (or, in the unlikely event that you fail, you got more time to re-take it) and can concentrate on the actual flying.

I wouldn't worry too much about learning regulations that are pertinent only to the US - the underlying principles are similar worldwide and local regs (UK or otherwise) will then be very easy to absorb / adapt to.

Where to go is a tricky question. While the various outfits in Florida advertise heavily in the UK, I would definitely look at schools in California. This is probably a slightly more expensive option (starting with getting there), but you will be exposed to a wider variety of flying (anything from sea fog to 40 kt winds in the desert via some pretty serious mountains). Also, especially in the LA area, you will be exposed to a lot of ATC, so will learn to fly 'in the system' from day one.

HTH and good luck !:ok:

[mcgoo]

Irrespective of where you learn, I would say that a budget of £4000 is very optimistic.

not really, i did my JAA PPL at OBA in november and it cost me a little over £4300 on the warrior including flights accom and night qualification, everything really, but there has been quite a price hike now because of the fuel increase

[Keef]

The FAA PPL oral is tough. That said, it does make sure you're a competent pilot. It also includes US regulations, some of which aren't relevant to the UK. But it does allow you to fly in the USA. I have a CAA PPL (pre-JAA) and an FAA one (with an IR attached). The writtens for the JAA are tougher than the US written, but the oral and the flying standards are harder for the FAA.

Once you get back to the UK, you can fly here on your FAA PPL - but you can't leave the UK (for example to go to France) without a JAR-recognised PPL, unless you're in an N-reg aircraft. There aren't many of those available for hire here these days.

I'd be surprised if you could do the FAA PPL for £4k now: I got back from two weeks of flying round California last month, and fuel was around $4 a US gallon in most places ($5.60 in Palm Springs!). The "surcharge" made it expensive to rent an aircraft.

You also need a visa, TSA clearance, and a flight school that's authorised to issue M1 paperwork. Many claim to be so, some of those aren't. Check carefully!

[Henry Hallam]

Once you get back to the UK, you can fly here on your FAA PPL - but you can't leave the UK (for example to go to France) without a JAR-recognised PPL, unless you're in an N-reg aircraft.


Not true!! Check the ANO and LASORS section A7: http://www.caa.co.uk/default.aspx?categoryid=175&pagetype=68&groupid=780

The FAA Private certificate is a "licence rendered valid" under the ANO and with it you can do anything you can do with a basic JAA PPL - you can't attach ratings to it, but you *CAN* fly overseas in a G-reg aircraft.