Mode s transponder

[Possum3]

Could someone tell me where to reference the situation regarding the mandatory (or not as the case may be) fitting of mode S transponders in light a/c? A CAA publication reference would be ideal.

[IMC007]

Within the UK FIR, Mode S Enhanced (EHS) has been mandatory for all aircraft flying IFR as GAT within notified Mode S airspace since 31 Mar 05 (with a 2-year transition period until 31 March 2007), as per AIC 49/2005 (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/810/DAP_SSM_AIC492005.pdf)(YLO 171). It is now proposed to mandate carriage of a Mode S Elementary (ELS) transponder within remaining UK airspace by 31 Mar 2008. It is likely that there will be a 2-year transition period until 31 March 2010, to allow for any implementation difficulties. A Regulatory Impact Assessment (RIA) for the Mode S ELS proposal will be launched shortly.
If you have any queries regarding Mode S equipage, please do not hesitate to contact us at [email protected] ([email protected])

[Possum3]

Thanks for the reply, I have read the AIC and I think I understand the requirements, am I right in thinking that WEF 31/3/08 microlight a/c will need a mode S txponder to fly in uncontrolled airspace?

[Rod1]

My understanding is this is not finalised.

There is a consultation process to go through.

It depends on the cost of the kit.

It depends on research into the LAST portable unit.

It depends on attempts by the PFA and BMAA to get exceptions.

It depends on the health and safety position regarding emissions on non-metal aircraft.

It is also the beginning date, which has a two-year compliance period, taking us to 2010.

I have probably missed out one or two, but you get the idea!

Rod1

[Possum3]

Thanks for that Rod1, sounds like we won't have to shell out the 5 grand just yet.

Possum3

[IO540]

It won't be £5k anyway.

The Garmin GTX330 lists at about 2k plus VAT. The installation should be £500 or so assuming somebody has to make some holes.

[robin]

...and the RIA is due (possibly) in June with a 12 week consultation period.

[trevs99uk]

There is the LAST device... Basically a low powered transponder.
There was a handheld version on show at the FLY show.
Sit nicely on your leg or velcro to the dash.
When they get approval they hope to sell it for between GBP 1000 - 1500

trevor

[robin]

Still too much cost

As AOPA are saying, the price has to be affordable for the Evans VP1 pilot and the microlight pilot. £1000+ for a questionable benefit for these pilots is a high proportion of the value of their aircraft.

The other (slight) problem is that the LAST solution may not be acceptable for use in European airspace.

[bar shaker]

As Robin said... the LAST is not ICAO compliant, whilst it may get UK approval, it will be useless elsewhere.

The big question is do NATS want us all using these? A controller I spoke to said he did not want it, as he would spend too much time turning off everyone's idents, so that he could see the traffic he was controlling.

The current situation, whereby it is required for airways, class A, is fine. Class D access could be by PPR for non transponder traffic and that would be fine too. Class G neither needs it nor would benefit from it.

Unless, that is, Class G starts getting full of commercial traffic :uhoh:

[DubTrub]

I'll be alright...I've no power source for the panel-mount one, and the LAST is not approved in Europe, and I don't have £1000-£1500, so I'll forge the log entry and operate illegally from the bottom of the garden.:}

[bar shaker]

Dub Trub

A 'Peasants' Revolt' seems very likely.

[QDMQDMQDM]

Oh yes, there will be a peasants revolt.

This is an awful intrusion of bureaucracy into our lives for no obvious benefit.

QDM

[robin]

..but note the CAA line - they anticipate that a Mode S will be subject to check at regular intervals and if not fitted, then the CofA/Permit won't be issued!

QED

[QDMQDMQDM]

You don't have to switch it on, though, do you? What are they going to do, send a police car round to the place they think I may have landed in remote North Devon?

QDM

[DubTrub]

CofA/Permit won't be issued Unregistered aircraft don't need a CofA/Permit.:)

[slim_slag]

Somebody recently made what he claims was a simple mistake over his CofA and it cost him £17k. Private pilots don't appear to get sympathetic hearings from the CAA or the magistrates courts, it would be a brave man not to put a Mode S in if it was mandated.

[A and C]

In the USA a lot of people are fitting mods S despite the fact that there is no mandate for it................. why ?

It is because they see the advantages of ADS-B, TIS and real time weather information all via the mode S data link.

So what do we get for fitting mode S............. sweet FA ! (and may be charges for using the air)

What do you all expect from the people who have just started to investigate an approach system that has been in use in the USA for fourteen years ?.

The bottom line is the CAA have not got the first idea of what is happening in GA today and are stuck in a time warp but see mode S as a way to suport there life style by charging us to use class G airspace, the sooner EASA puts the whole lot of them on the dole the better.