Flying in a storm last night?

[SkyHawk-N]

I was visiting Cricklade in Wiltshire yesterday and while I was there, at around 6:30/7:00pm, a large thunderstorm came over. VERY dark grey VERY low clouds, torrential rain and forked lightning. During all this I heard a light aircraft flying over quite low, I looked up and saw what I think was an Auster or early tail dragging Cessna. I couldn't see it too well due to the mirk, but it was flying dead South right towards the heart of the storm.
If this was anyone on the forum I would be interested in hearing your experiences of that flight! :eek:

[Computer says NO!]

He obviously didnt make it!! :} :eek:

[Johnm]

Hmmmm. That's what caused me to abort a trip to Compton Abbas and Kemble last night and scuttle off back to sunny East Anglia:{

[fltcom]

I flew back from Liverpool on the day in question, arriving o/head stockenchurch around 17.15 (local) We could see the the CB's from much further north and they were obviously reaching very high altitudes.

It suddenly went very dark as we passed beneath them - got a bit bumpy too. Then the extreme rain came accompanied by lightning all around. I have to admit to seriously considering my options. My passenger seemed to be enjoying it, so we pressed on and passed into much clearer conditions by the time we approached Farnborough.

First time I have considered the benefits of weather radar.

Flt.....

[Dude~]

My passenger seemed to be enjoying it, so we pressed on

Nice logic fltcom, care to re-word that?!:)

[UL730]

Stunned silence.
:(

[Say again s l o w l y]

fltcom, I take you are are just in wind up mode!! If not....:ugh:

[fltcom]

Skyhawk wanted to hear about the storm.......end of story

[Computer says NO!]

Eh? What kind of reply is that fltcom?

Another case of "Press-onitis" then!:sad:

Its all good fun until it goes wrong! :rolleyes:

[fltcom]

Sorry.....I dont do 'press on itis' kindly keep your ill judged opinions to yourself

[Final 3 Greens]

I have to admit to seriously considering my options

Would be interested in what your options were.

[neilmac]

I was gonna pick up a friend from Benson but canx due to the forecaster saying the storms would arrive late afternoon. So I drove to Benson and whilst looking at ok vis and a little cloud build up wishing I had taken the plane since I got caught up in A34 car park. My 2 hour round trip took 4!! However better that way than being bold and getting caught in storms!

[Aussie Andy]

Re- fltcom's post -- we don't know anything about the aircraft type, equipment, experience etc perhaps so I guess we shouldn't judge too harshly. Having said that, it didn't read well...

Anyd :ok:

[Say again s l o w l y]

Alright, if he was flying "metman" or was in a C-130 going out storm hunting, then fine, but somehow I doubt that!.....

CB's and light aircraft are not a great combination!

[Aussie Andy]

somehow I doubt that!..... ...all I'm saying is we don't know :ok:

[Computer says NO!]

"It suddenly went very dark as we passed beneath them - got a bit bumpy too. Then the extreme rain came accompanied by lightning all around. I have to admit to seriously considering my options. My passenger seemed to be enjoying it, so we pressed on and passed into much clearer conditions by the time we approached Farnborough".


Well, its madness IMHO!! Who would honestly fly under CB's as described above in fltcoms post? "Extreme rain" "Lighning all around" and then the best bit- "My passenger seemed to be enjoying it so we pressed on" This has to be a wind up!! :D

Or if not a wind up, perhaps a re-read of Mr Thom's met book under the heading 'Thunderstorms' or the PINK AIC is required! :rolleyes:

[Final 3 Greens]

Well, I reckon his one of his options was to exit FS2004 and do some work :-)

[3FallinFlyer]

IIRC it is the recommended procedure in the US if you 'inadvertantly' enter a thunderstorm in a light a/c to fly straight through and out the other side maintaining a level attitude and wings level. Do not try to turn or maintain altitude as the biggest danger is to overstress the airframe and risk an inflight airframe failure. If this is the case here, then it would seem that fitcom may have acted appropriately. I am interested to hear what others would suggest if for example flying in IMC and inadvertantly entering an embedded CB.

Obviously, you would never knowingly fly into a developed CB!!

[Computer says NO!]

3FallinFlyer, agree entirely, maintain course and fly out other side.

It doesnt seem in this case that he did 'inadvertantly' fly into these CB's.



"We could see the the CB's from much further north and they were obviously reaching very high altitudes".



I think this is the crux of the matter, knowingly flying into active CB's.

[Final 3 Greens]

In the interests of being totally accurate (even pedantic), I don't believe that CB penetration occured, but that the poster flew underneath.

Of course, I don't know what the cloudbase was, as it could be anything from a few hundred feet to a few thousand and thus the ground clearance implications of downdrafts are unclear in this context.

But put it this way, I would not do it ... and I have inadvertently penetrated an embedded cell in a light aircraft, which was one of the scariest experiences of my life. And we got away very lightly.

[Lower the Nose!]

But put it this way, I would not do it ... and I have inadvertently penetrated an embedded cell in a light aircraft, which was one of the scariest experiences of my life. And we got away very lightly.

Can you describe it?

[Final 3 Greens]

The aircraft was out of control for what seemed like an eternity, but was probably only 90-120 seconds.

The VSI pegged at the top and bottom stops at different times and the airspeed fluctuated wildly

I believe that we stalled, with a wing drop, at least twice.

It was very difficult to read the instruments at times, as the needles were shaking too much.

We entered the cell at 3500 feet and were spat out at about 700 (over sea.)

However, the engine never missed a beat, we didn't encounter lightning, ice or hail - only intense rain that ran through the windows seals.

So all in all, we were very lucky and the guy flying (my instructor) did a superb job of keeping things averaged enough to get through to the other side.

I learned about flying from that, especially that CBs can form in warm fronts, however rarely and that flying without wx radar in real IMC, in frontal conditions, is for braver folk than me.

[SkyHawk-N]

Of course, I don't know what the cloudbase was, as it could be anything from a few hundred feet to a few thousand

When the aircraft flew over me (see original posting) the cloudbase was, I guess, about 300 to 400 foot (and I forgot to mention the hail). The CBs were massive and must have been visible many miles away. The thing that amazed me is that Kemble, Oaksey Park, even South Cerney and Fairford were only a few miles away, I know exactly what I would have done!

[CaptainFillosan]

fltcom

I make NO apologies for saying that any flight in a light aircraft towards a CB is crass stupidity! It certainly wasn't any kind of decent airmanship that I know of.

You obviously know little of the forces you can encounter beneath a CB or worst still in one. You are lucky - this time.

You need to understand that what you did and I suggest you get boned up on it.

[dublinpilot]

Unless I'm mistaken, which I maybe, I believe fltcom is a very experienced IR pilot. I'm sure that if and when the full circumstances are explained his trip might be seen in a difference light.

Of course I may be wrong on this. I don't know fltcom, nor anything about his trip. But judging by his posting here and elsewhere he would seem to be someone who knows what they are doing.

dp

[Computer says NO!]

I don't know fltcom, nor anything about his trip. But judging by his posting here and elsewhere he would seem to be someone who knows what they are doing.


Dublinpilot, care to re-read fltcoms post on this thread. Neither me or a few others who have posted here seem to think like you, in fact quite the opposite!!

[dublinpilot]

CSN,

I didn't mean his posting on this thread, but his others on this site, and other sites. Have a search.

dp

[MikeJeff]

of course fltcom could just be a wind up merchant.. in which case I doff my cap.. is good at it!

I flew from J'berg to Durban last year. We followed a line of TS, spent alot of time in the cells. Barely a bump!

and ATCO buddy of mine who controlled many years ago said they used to take the old aeroplanes through the storms and vector the ones with wx radar around the cells.. never lost a plane or had a complaint!

Someone accused someone else of not knowing or understanding the forces involved in a Cb.. that's what's so cool about them NO-ONE knows!

[unfazed]

A very experienced flying instructor and commercial pilot based in E. Tennessee told me that if you don't like flying in thunderstorms then you would not be able to fly in that area on a regular basis, he also told me that he had a lot of right seaters with low hours who were scared stiff if they saw lightening as they had had it drummed into them NEVER to fly in thunderstorms.

The point he was making is that there are different levels and intensities of CB's and it is not always possible to route around the less intense ones so you have to just get on with it.

Steps back and awaits deluge of angry responses............:)

[Boing_737]

I was stood on a small hill in a large park in Reading, that evening looking at the storm with m'dog (non-plused 'cos he was a bit wet). Saw a mid-sized single engined GA aircraft heading towards but underneath the storm:eek: heading in the general direction of Farnborough. Most of the Heathrow traffic was actively avoiding it as far as I could tell.

All I can say is that I wouldn't do it.

Anyone remember that AAIB report about the dude whos wings fell off after flying around under thunderstorms in France?

[Wycombe]

Here in West Berks it was pretty intense last Weds late afternoon. More lightning and biggish hail than I have ever seen outside of the tropics. A chap in a light single made a precautionary on Newbury Racecourse.

[Aussie Andy]

Newbury RacecourseWhere is it? Think I'll mark it on my charts!!

Andy :ok:

Answers own question (thank you Google!): http://www.newbury-racecourse.co.uk/images/Newbury_Location_Map.pdf

[RoyHudd]

Scary stuff. Storms are seriously bad news, and must always be avoided. IMC in weather with CB's featured in METAR's or TAF's or synoptics, even OCNL, means no place for a/c without WX radar, and competent IR qualified pilot/s. (Use of WX radar is an acquired skill, and situation analysis is helped if variable ranges are available on separate screens.)

Never had a problem as a PPL/IMC. Avoided nasty weather always. (Wasn't paid or qualified to tangle with it). Little fluffy clouds were generally ok. Nothing more.

[Shaft109]

If memory serves me right around late 1996/early1997 2 lads I know were flying in a Grob 109 in the vicinity of Chorley when they encountered an embedded CB. They were heading north but under the clouds remaining VFR at all times about 1500' AGL.

Full Airbrake + 90knots in the glide + Cross controls will normally yield a R.O.Descent of over 10 knots (about 1000'per min descent) on this occasion they were getting 4 knots climb:ooh:

It didn't last long but as a young pilot It impressed upon me that respecting something that big and powerful might be a good idea, no matter what you are driving.

[WorkingHard]

I concur that flying in OR NEAR to thunderstorms can be very scary. About 10 years ago, just south of the Loire valley, in a Cessna 172 with 4 adults on board (all pilots) I encountered an updraught between 2 storms that we judged a very long way off. This caused us to ASCEND at a rate higher than the a/c could get us down. It stopped at around 10000ft but at the time we all became very quickly more aware of CB power.

[airborne_artist]

A member of the RN EFTS course after me in summer 1979 had to jump from his Bulldog, with the instructor, after losing control in an intense CB. Stude landed in Framer Giles' meadow, instructor in FG's slurry pit :E

[englishal]

I don't like flying near thunderstorms....I once encountered embedded cb's and it was really scary.....

[pulse1]

Workinghard's story reminded me that you can come down just as quickly. I was ferrying a glider to Cranfield some years ago and released from the tug close to a small Cb. As I would have to wait for my retrieve crew I started to play with the lift. However, being so close to Class A, caution prevailed and I decide to stay over the airfield (closed at the time). I crossed the airfield boundary at 3000'. By the time I reached the centre of the field I had lost almost all that height and just turned into wind and landed.