Central London PPL

[Yellapage]

Hi Chaps and Chaps'es

I am looking to get my PPL this summer in preparation for eventually going all the way to my ATPL license. I have a small problem that I live at Kings Cross (St Pancras) and have great transport routes for Central London but I don’t know too many flying schools that operate out of City Airport.

When you don’t have a car it does cause serious issues when trying to get around outside the M25, could anyone offer any advice of any airports that can be reached via public transport? EGMC or EGKB?

Also for training purposes what would you say is the best school for getting your PPL in preparation of getting you moving in the right direction for the ATPL, does it matter if your doing you PPL out of a grass strip in Hertfordshire? Perhaps I would be better doing it in another country but does this effect your CV in the future not training in the UK.

Thanks for reading
Richard

:hmm:

[potkettleblack]

There are a schools at Denham and Elstree which are "reasonably" commuter friendly. Both are accessible by a mixture of tubes and trains. I would suggest that if you fly off peak then get a cheap mountain bike and take it on the trains with you to make the journey from station to airfield much easier. Use multimap to help you work out the mileage etc. Enjoy.

[ChocksAwayUK]

Yup, Denham is a 20 minute train from Marylebone then a 20 minute walk (21 minutes actually, I always found!). Used to do that every Saturday for about a year.

Biggin hill is not really doable - involves a long and infrequent bus trip.

Personally don't know about Elstree.

I know of an instructor at Stapleford who lives in Kings X and commutes by public transport.

All those arifields have decent places to do a PPL. Stapleford in particular may be good if you are going the whole hog as they have a competitively priced commercial course and mostly very good instruction.

If you drive have you considered buying a really cheap car? - it would make your life a lot easier. You could probably be insured and taxed etc for £700ish including car.

[Yellapage]

Thanks Guys,

Looking forward to getting stuck into some learning this summer.

[Bramley]

Consider Headcorn; an hour by train and then about a twenty minute walk. Seem to have some of the cheapest rates for schools in the SE, which might be an incentive.

[damicod]

Luton airport has a flying club, and if your in Kings cross you can get a train direct to the airport

[rons22]

dont learn to fly in elstree or denham, it will cost you lot more then at other airfields. It is not uncommon to have 80hrs until you are ready for test. Use smaller and friendlier airfields.

[drauk]

rons22, what is it about Elstree that would require one to have 80 hours before being ready for the test?

It's a bit of a dump and there are some miserable sods there, but I can't see why learning to fly from there would take any longer than a smaller field.

[davethelimey]

Howdy,

Biggin Hill isn't too bad on a week day - a direct train from Victoria to Bromley South and a fifteen minute bus ride is all it takes to get to the industrial complex.

The bus frequency drops to one every two hours on the weekend, though.

[BroomstickPilot]

Yellapage,

If you are really serious about going all the way to fATPL, and you want to achieve it in less than a century, I suggest you make a slightly longer journey and go to the USA or SA. Training there is far quicker and far cheaper.

If you want to learn why you shouldn't train in the UK, look up my recent posts.

Broomstick.

[Thirty06]

Good point about Luton.

Eagle Flight training are down near the long term parking (next road up, mabe ten minutes' walk). Good instruction and good aircraft, students can't do solo circuits at the airport, so you have to go elsewhere. There can be a bit of holding on return, but at least you get to watch the big planes land.
Take the shuttle from Luton airport parkway and then take the carpark bus or walk from the terminal.

Cranfield is a bus ride from Milton Keynes, more flying schools, but possibly some waiting for the transfer.

It's worth choosing a flying school with easy access so that you arrive ready to fly.

The fast Thameslink trains get here pretty quickly, I discovered this when I changed at Luton airport for harpenden and got on the wrong train; next stop Kings cross, a bit of a s$&&%&$ after travelling from Cumbria.

Why not have trial flights at the likely candidates (log them!) and see which works out best.

I'd recommend a Brompton bicycle for use on trains to London, unless you can find a guard's van, possibly they still run these from London bridge (guards' vans that is)

[robin]

I learned at Luton some time ago. I don't know how it is now, but we weren't allowed to do our solo work there and had to fly to another field (Cranfield, Bourn and others).

This added nearly an hour to every solo trip, which added to the cost

[Thirty06]

I'd guess that it would add to the cost of the flight, but how much would it add to the trining overall.

Would it be practical to polish off the solo requirements from another flying school and do the main part from an easily accessible field ?

IIRC the requirement is for ten hours solo including the NAVEX, so long as the travelling is used productively then it might not be such a bad thing.

[Yellapage]

All posts have been a great help, so thank you all for your advice.

Broomstickpilot - I do think your right about the PPL taking quite a while to get UK due to weather, I have 15 hours log time which took a while to get in UK conditions (Maybe unlucky). I still don't think I will be satisfied with just gaining my PPL and still have had this burning desire to start my fATPL. At 24 and working in the IT industry for 6 years I feel if I don't get this while I am under 30 I will never do it and won't be able to start climbing this new career ladder.

I am going to sit a GAPAN aptitude test next month and also get out to Jerez to look at Flight Training Europe. To perhaps do the intergrated route providing I can secure financing and get through these tests, not only to be accepted by the FTO but to convince myself I will be able to get a job at the end of this long road.
Thanks again.

[rons22]

sorry drauk for slow reply, basically I spoke to guys who hire out aircrafts at Elstree and they told me that people who completed PPL at ELstree normally have something like 80/90 hours in their logbook by the time they get license. Circuits can get very busy and for a new pilot its a bit tough as area is surrounded by controlled airspaces + gliding club to the north-west of the airfield. Runway is short and not very flat to say the least. Nice airfield but in my humble opinion its a bit unfair on new PPL starter. Sorry if I am wrong.

[coodem]

I did my PPL in the USA, in 21 days. I enjoyed it. I knew I would have to get a few hours experience before I would be signed off/confident.

I have done around 5 hours, all have been done at Elstree, and I found no problems at all. I did not find it that busy, but then again I never fly at weekends.

I would say that anyone who does their PPL in the States would need around 5 hours to get familiar with the surroundings and slightly different radio.

The downside for any student, is that you can't do circuits, unless you are with cabair (maybe another one FTO), but Cranfield is just 20 minutes away

[potkettleblack]

Many moons ago I was on my 3rd instructor at Denham watching the months go by and the hours in my logbook accumulate as time after time I had to "reprove" myself before I would be allowed to go solo. I was making myself available every weekend and even taking off time in the mornings from work nearby so I could try and book in as many slots as possible but as you would expect the fog, rain, sick/hungover instructor, tech aircraft etc all conspired against me. In the end I went stateside and got it all done in 3 weeks and liked it so much that I went back a few months later and burnt 100 hours.

I am sure there are some great schools somewhere in the UK but if I had my time again I would head west and do it all in one go. I found that although slightly pressured your flying comes on leaps and bounds by being up in the air twice a day. Back in the UK I was struggling to remember what we had done in the previous lesson and hence most lessons were a rehash.

[GeeRam]

Many moons ago I was on my 3rd instructor at Denham watching the months go by and the hours in my logbook accumulate as time after time I had to "reprove" myself before I would be allowed to go solo. I was making myself available every weekend and even taking off time in the mornings from work nearby so I could try and book in as many slots as possible but as you would expect the fog, rain, sick/hungover instructor, tech aircraft etc all conspired against me. In the end I went stateside and got it all done in 3 weeks and liked it so much that I went back a few months later and burnt 100 hours.
I am sure there are some great schools somewhere in the UK but if I had my time again I would head west and do it all in one go. I found that although slightly pressured your flying comes on leaps and bounds by being up in the air twice a day. Back in the UK I was struggling to remember what we had done in the previous lesson and hence most lessons were a rehash.

Hmmmm....that's made me think:(

Denham is my local field, and I'm currently only working about a 5 min drive away, and was contemplating doing PPL there or maybe Booker(?) this summer.

I have only started to investigate it all, and had looked at the US option which does look attractive on cost. However, as a self-employed contractor, the reduced cost of training in the US has to be offest by the fact that in reality the cost is course + 3-4 weeks lost income, which brings the cost about the same as the UK. The advantage would be as you say, the training being condensed rather than spread out.

Looks like a lot more investigation is going to be required.:uhoh:

[BroomstickPilot]

GeeRam,

I think you are missing something. If you go to the States and get your PPL in three or four weeks, you will then have your licence in the bag: done and dusted: over and done with. All you will need then is to do a few more hours with an instructor in the UK.

If you do it in the UK, it will drag on for months, even years. I did mine in the UK and it took 20 months.

This was mostly due to weather, but part of the reason for this was because my good instructor at club No. 1 left and was replaced by a bad one. There was an incident and I walked out of the club.

I went to club No. 2 and was confronted with another dead loss instruction situation. I left that club (having only just paid my membership for the year).

I then went to club No. 3, where the same thing very, very nearly happened again. If I had gone to a largish outfit in the US, this would never have happened and I would have been a qualified PPL a year and a half earlier.

If you commit yourself to the British long drag PPL you allow so much more time for things to go wrong.

Broomstick.

[potkettleblack]

You have to love the quaint old concept of the flying club don't ya. You pay them say £150 for your annual membership and what exactly do you get? Nought. Well not unless you can put a price on having access to an aircraft that you in turn have to flick them £130/hr for. Yet you can join a rugby club and play rugby, squash membership gets you access to the squash courts etc etc.

Always struck me as strange how in the US a ltd co. can set up as an FTO and let people like ourselves come over and rent their planes for just the wet hourly rate after the obligatory 1 hour check ride. Yet in the UK it has to be made to difficult with a so called not for profit club structure run principally by a committee that changes every year and thinks that they need to leave some sort of legacy that invariably turns to custard for the next encumbants.

I was looking for a share to do some hour building but have decided that it just isn't going to work over here. I don't want to have to join some club just for the sake of having access to a group aircraft somewhere and there is no certainty that I will be able to sell the share when I am done hour building in it plus I have the very real risk that I might have to cough up more cash for unexpected maintenance along the way. My conclusion is to hop on a plane and burn the hours in the US. Sad but it seems true.

[airborne_artist]

Is there still a bunkhouse at Headcorn? I'd be inclined to get down on a Fri evg - maybe even get a flight in if you can get there for 1900, and then aim to fly twice each day on Sat and Sun. That would be enough to take in, IMHO. If you could take the hit to the social life, and you are quick to learn, then 45-50 hours might be do-able by October if the met god is on your side.

Tempting as it may seem, flying three times in one day might be too much?

ISTR that there are one or two B+Bs not far from Headcorn, and there was a camping area!

[GeeRam]

GeeRam,
I think you are missing something. If you go to the States and get your PPL in three or four weeks, you will then have your licence in the bag: done and dusted: over and done with. All you will need then is to do a few more hours with an instructor in the UK.
If you do it in the UK, it will drag on for months, even years. I did mine in the UK and it took 20 months.


No, not missing anything, the attraction of doing stateside is very clear...:ok:
However, it has to be weighed with the cost of the time off for me. A 4 week stint would cost me about the same as the course in lost earnings, thereby effectively doubling the cost. But in reality, it would be more as I would be forced to time it between contracts, which would really mean possibly up to another 2 weeks without pay to get work after returning.
So cost wise there would be no advantage, it's would be just the convience of doing in the one hit rather than being dragged out because of all the factors you mention.

[wsmempson]

I learnt with BAFC at Booker and loved it. I did take 2 summers (trying to fit learning to fly around work and the vagaries of English winter weather is a complete wast of time IMHO) and I went solo end of 1st summer and got my PPL at the end of the 2nd. 52 hrs all told. You can do it faster and cheaper in the US of A but that pre-supposes that you are able to take 4 weeks off work,

Also, I enjoyed learning to fly, so whats the rush? I mean, you can watch a movie on fast-forward at home on your tellie and it'll be cheaper and quicker than the cinema, but maybe it would be missing the point slightly.

Friends who learnt in the States came back to find that flying in Europe (or 'yuurp' as the Americans call it) is very diferent to flying in, say, Florida where there is loads of unrestricted space and mostly stable weather.

I'd do it here, if I were you. Pick a school you like (and don't be afraid to road-test a few) and take your time. Oh, and enjoy!!

[Draven]

Hello,

I did some hours with Eagle Flight (Luton Airport), they have 1 TB10 and 1 PA28, i did enjoy my time there, like it was before you might have to hold once in awhile (and listening to the RT), but it is all good experience, easy access via train.

Draven

[FlyingRat]

Cabair at Denham. Young freindly instructors, good atmosphere lots of social events & trips (its very different from most of Cabair).

If you can learn to fly in and out of Denham (short runway, tiny circuit & in London's Zone) you'll find flying elsewhere a breeze.

80 hrs is nonesense....

[Footless Halls]

Just chippin my 2 penny-worth in. I learned to fly in the UK but outside the London area. I live in central London and have looked at quite a few airfields in the London area. I reckon Stapleford is an excellent choice - straight along the Central Line, then a £7.00 cab from Denham. Friendly, professional folks with high standards, good facilities and generally well-equipped. OK it's not the world's greatest runway but that makes it all the better to learn from. Good luck!