ASIC Nonsense [Archive] - PPRuNe Forums

BuzzBox

19th Apr 2006, 02:27

Aussie

19th Apr 2006, 03:07

I applied for my AUS ASIC in November last yr,

Still no sign of it... and ive already got a Syd ASIC!!!

certifs

19th Apr 2006, 03:13

A media release from Warren Truss (Minister for Transport & Regional Services) dated 28 March 2006 states:
"The Australian Government Minister for Transport and Regional Services, Warren Truss, today said that pilots who had applied to the Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) before 31 December 2005 for an Aviation Security Identification Card (ASIC), and have been found eligible, can expect to receive their new card before the end of March."
Haven't you learnt pollie speak yet. There are at least two outs I can see in that media release:
"said that pilots who had applied..." said pilots, didn't say all pilots.
"can expect to receive their..." said can expect, didn't say would receive.
Well, I applied for my ASIC back in early October and I still haven't received it. Several enquiries to CASA about the status of my application have been met with "we are waiting clearance from, blah, blah, blah...". If there's a problem (and I can't for the life of me think why there would be) no-one has had the courtesy to contact me to try and sort it out. With the extortionate fees charged by CASA these days and this ASIC rubbish, I'm beginning to think that aviation in Australia is just too damn hard!
But of course, the best is yet to come.
Now that there are ASICs and some/most pilots have them, expect authorities everywhere to want to use them (somehow). If you thought issuing them was inconsistent and stupid. Wait till every security organisation from the fed police down to Joe's 2 bob security services starts telling you what you can and can't do.
Certifs.

Angle of Attack

19th Apr 2006, 05:57

Ummm yeah thats what happens when idiotic governments make a stupid policy to look good to the public but don't provide the support and finance for the departments to conduct it. Its all looks and spin, no substance. Thats what this government is all about. (anyone notice that all those "terrorist" suspects rounded up months ago have all been released because there was no worthwhie evidence?) yeah media doesnt report it, but hey in the view of Joe Public something is being done!, Its just pathetic all of it... unfortunatley a lot of Australians are apathetic they have had it too good for too long, time will tell I guess...

apache

19th Apr 2006, 06:31

satmstr

19th Apr 2006, 07:58

So what about all the OTHER people who need / have airside access ?
ie the freight agents, meeting the freight planes; the ambulance people meeting the RFDS plane? the local police man who has to investigate anything and everything that goes on at the local airport? or the firemen who attend a potential "wheels up "?

Are ALL ambulance officers, firepeople, and policemen/women going to be issued ASIC's as well ? and what if the local copper is caught NOT wearing an ASIC whilst investigating agas theft ? is he/she going to issue themselves a $550 fine ?
Is the Fire chief at, say, Dubbo going to ask the pilot if he/she could land in a field away from the terminal ? or maybe " can you please crash near the fence" ?

Apache, to my understanding any Ambulance, Fire brigade and police are exempt from having a ASIC as long as access to the restricted "airside area" is for emergencies only . And also to my understanding is that most major airports are federal land, so the federal police are in charge of these areas not the local state police , but state police can be called in if they need them.

Correct me if i am wrong guys :D , Satmstr

ContactMeNow

19th Apr 2006, 14:11

My father is an emplyee of a state organisation listed below, incharge of emergencies at an international airport in Australia and HE IS REQUIRED TO SHOW AN ASIC at all times when airside, this includes pratise operations of the REAL thing, no ASIC no go.

Silly isnt it.

Taking about ASICs got mine in the mail yesterday 18/4 and it came with the stupid lanyard broken already! Wonder if they have a policy for faulty goods? After all we did BUY them

aero979

19th Apr 2006, 22:24

are the charges tax deductable?? has anyone seen a tax invoice from casa??

VH-XXX

19th Apr 2006, 23:16

I applied for mine yesterday. I will keep you updated as to how long it takes; should prove interesting.

Dark Knight

19th Apr 2006, 23:48

Had mine for over a month however, it and the licence are the most readily forgeable documents produced by a government department since federation.

Your average computer savvy schoolkid could knock one up in 20 odd minutes flat let alone our local nefarious genuine terrorist.

Taken it up with the Minister.

Watch this space.

DK

aero979

20th Apr 2006, 03:45

dear mr truss, you said in one of your worthless press releases that the integrity of security checks was vital. Why is it then that one of my students has had her ASIC card sent, but CASA can not tell her where it went or where it is.

Is there a stand outside CASA in Canberra where i can go and have one of those artists just draw a picture of myself on the front of a red piece of plastic??? will that do?? i can even scribble casa on the bottom with some of my crayons. That is how you are treating us right???:}

RENURPP

20th Apr 2006, 04:07

My ASIC expired, (and I didn't realise, whoops) and I had been gaining access to airports throughout Australia NO QUESTIONS ASKED for several months. I understand glass houses and all that, BUT I do not support any of the DOTARs security measures, I see them as window dressing and at best a joke. This confirms it for me.

I was confronted by an NT DOTARs manager during a turn around, who just wanted to be a pain in the arse advising me I had to proceed through security as I walked across some imaginary line , only obvious in his imagination. Had he been doing his job he would have noticed that my ASIC wasn't current and should not have been there at all. He could have had the pleasure of fining me $500.

Every time we proceed airside in Perth, our ASIC's are checked by those morons who can't even stand up to have a proper look, again they would have realised that they were allowing, and in some cases opening the door to allow me airside without a valid ASIC.

I also was issued with a valid access card, i.e. access to all terminal doors around Aus, yet did not have a valid ASIC.

What hope have the poor old terrorists got of beating DOTARs? every chance.

JOKE is the only word for it.

Karunch

20th Apr 2006, 05:51

Heres a thought, having just read the Aust. Govt request for anti terrorist information in the Aviation Trader (& no doubt other publications)- we should sell them any information that comes to hand for the sum of $135 per piece. The gall of them- charge me $135 for an Avid then ask me to volunteer any information that I might pick up while flying using my Avid.

www.nationalsecurity.gov.au What a joke.

Arm out the window

20th Apr 2006, 06:22

If they don't answer the third email I've sent them asking where my ASIC is (applied in October - they haven't answered one yet) I'm going to start sending letters to ministers etc, for what it's worth - probably only the satisfaction of feeling like I've done something; doubt if it will get any action.

RENURPP

20th Apr 2006, 06:28

ring up and be obstanant, it works some times when they don't want you phoning again. gets you out of their hair.

Farknel

20th Apr 2006, 10:45

Have had a positive experience so far - Submitted my ASIC application via Registered Post in early March and received my ASIC (via registered post) 3 days ago. All told, a processing time of approx 6 - 7 weeks.

Fark!

Chimbu chuckles

20th Apr 2006, 11:57

While I had a fairly painless experience obtaining said bit o' plastic..applied Dec 17th and received it....or a ASIC holding mate in Brissy did...several days before the deadline and valid to January 2008...I firmly agree with all the negative posts...it IS a vaste waste of time and resources...ours.

I hear QF staff are having a hard time getting their ASICs renewed and being forced to get daily passes issued to go flying...why?

Because QF were so snowed under doing CASA/DOTARS job that they fell behind with their own staff.

It would be funny except....well it's not:{

aero979

20th Apr 2006, 22:06

casa told me yesterday all asics will be delivered via registered mail. She said there had been some issues with them being issued through qantas! haha... really??!:\

Oh that's super!

21st Apr 2006, 15:15

Sue Ridgepipe

21st Apr 2006, 22:32

casa told me yesterday all asics will be delivered via registered mail. She said there had been some issues with them being issued through qantas! haha... really??!:\

Well at least that might make it easier to collect them instead of having to provide "100 points" of ID to the security nazis before they'll hand it over... "here you go mate here's my old ASIC which hasn't expired yet, can I have my new one please?"
"No sorry I need to see 100 points of ID."
"Well this ASIC is current and it has my photo on it."
"Sorry son that doesn't count for anything."

What an absolute f%^$#ng joke. :mad: :mad: :mad:

TurboOtter

23rd Apr 2006, 07:28

I applied for mine in mid Jan, recieved it the end of March, yet I had to drive into Mascot to pick it up! why couldn't they mail it, they can mail my passport and pilot licence, why not my ASIC.

I agree with all what a total waste of time. Now all these smaller airports have something to complain about and more than likely fine you for. I can see it now, flying into buck f@#k now where and accidentally forgeting my ASIC, being fined $500 bucks. How many other things do pilots have to budget for these days???:ugh:

SootyS

25th Apr 2006, 12:59

Looks like CASA must be working on a last come, first served basis. Lodged my app in October, and although I have been told multiple times that my background checks have been completed and I should receive my ASIC soon, still no sign!!

Arm out the window

28th Apr 2006, 04:36

Just had an 'interesting' session of phone calls to the licensing centre, the culmination (I hope) of about 6 weeks calling and emailing, being promised it would be looked into, waiting a bit, calling again, etc.

After talking to the initial phone-answering person and again getting the 'I'll email person x and they'll chase it up for you,' I expressed my dubiousness about whether anything would be done and asked to speak to someone who could give me straight answers to the following:

1. Where's my application (that I submitted in October)?
2. When will I get my card?
3. How will it be delivered?

Transferred to a person identifying himself by first name only, who called up my application in his computer system, and then requested I re-fax some pages of the original application (God knows where they might have gone to) and that he'd get them over for security checking this afternoon - all this after I'd been told numerous times by previous contacts that all was well and they knew exactly which batch my application was in, where it was, etc.

Crikey! as Steve Irwin would say.

Now awaiting a result - not holding my breath. P'raps it'll be time to submit the next one in two years by the time this one arrives!
At least this last fella sounded like he could make something happen.

Just a heads up for those who submitted around Nov and haven't got theirs yet - this bloke said there had been 'a few problems' with applications received around that time, and that procedures seemed to have been tightened up in January, which would explain the 'submitted application late, got card quickly' situation.

:confused:

Shot Nancy

28th Apr 2006, 10:42

Can anyone explain wtf you can pick it up from Qantas bases? I guess after all the Australian Government has been doing for QF it's the only way they can return the favour.
I guess that it is because the white rat has the machine that goes "bing" to make the card.

gassed budgie

28th Apr 2006, 14:47

Same here Arm. Sent away the application in early October and still nothing.
Actually rang CASA late this afternoon and spoke to a very nice Indian sounding chappy who told me "it is progressing through the system".
Nearly seven months (!!!) down the track it obviously isn't progressing fast enough. :hmm:

Arm out the window

28th Apr 2006, 22:03

Budgie, it seems that's the standard answer - I got that several times when it turns out they didn't know where it was.
If you haven't already, I'd ask them the list of questions in my last post, and if the person you're talking to can't pinpoint it and why it's stalled, keep asking to talk to someone who can until you get some satisfaction.
My impression is that applications like ours that somehow got stuck in a bureaucratic backwater will only come out again if we chase them all the way through.
Good luck.
:)

RENURPP

29th Apr 2006, 00:02

How do you7 GA guys get along without an ASIC?
dO you need some one with an ASIC to escort you? That must be a logistical nightmare.

Arm out the window

24th May 2006, 05:51

Anyone still waiting? I finally(!!) got mine today; been waiting since last October. At least it's good to mid-08, so in a crazy way they've saved me a couple of bucks by being disorganised.

Bell Man

24th May 2006, 07:53

I also got my ASIC today in the mail,I applied for it in November. I hope it doesn't take 6 months to renew the thing in two years.

1972

24th May 2006, 11:33

As someone who finds Australia Post quite unreliable, I am quite concerned that they post ASICs - even by registered post (I have had registered post go missing). That's not exactly a secure delivery method, is it?

I had the pleasure of receiving my SPL and ASIC (seperately) just the other week. I went to collect said ASIC from the local GPO after receiving a registered post slip in my mailbox. At the GPO, I handed over the slip, signed two documents and off I went.

This horrified me. I wasn't asked for any ID at all. Even on the form, it says this must be supplied. Just because I gave her the slip, doesn't mean I was the person the ASIC was addressed to. And they say ASICs have been designed for increased security? My arse!

I would say more, but all the sentiments of most GA pilots (even mere pups like me) have been summed up by a Paul Phelan in an article (pg.82) of the May/June edition of Australian Flying magazine. If you haven't seen it, read it.

As for the time I had to wait, compared to some of you poor buggers here, I was one of the fortunate ones. Applied in March, back by May.

I am also luckier than most given that I've only begun flying since these ridiculous money-grabbing regulations have been introduced, and even I think it takes the urine. So for all you more experienced General Aviators out there who never used to have to apply and pay for these worthless new documents, I appreciate just how incensed you must be.

These new measures are a transparent, knee-jerk reaction to Sept 11th, and a convenient licence to print money. Just another one of Johnny Howard's cash-cows. ASICs do nothing to improve security, as many posters here have testified.

I just thought my experience added yet another example of how insecure these security measures really are.

BuzzBox

24th May 2006, 12:28

Applied in October and still waiting...
:ugh:

flightfocus

25th May 2006, 00:34

On a related but slightly tangental note.
How about the Australian Doughnut Protection Serivces aimlessly wandering around the "high risk" GAAP environments. :suspect:
What the hell is that all about? How much is it costing us for these groups of "finely honed anti-terrorist machines" to meander around. And why do they always "base" themselves at the take away? All driving plash new motors.
Millions going down the drain. :sad: :mad:
But on second thoughts it might be working. I have not seen any pilots at my local getting around in the hijab :D :D :D
I want the guy running DOTARS to be the next government! Oh hang on, they already are :{ :{

kalavo

25th May 2006, 10:24

http://slash.dotat.org/~newton/security.html so true

currawong

25th May 2006, 10:51

Anyway, asked the spanners where theirs are, as they are airside working on aircraft, engine testing and indeed exist in a hanger that provides access airside to anyone that cares to use the door.

Met, as usual, with hoots of derision - read laughter, and comments about the gullibility of pilots.

:ouch:

gassed budgie

25th May 2006, 16:11

I've been told I have to re-apply as the application can't be found. So what happened to all of that personal info that was sent in with the application?
So much for security.
The chap I spoke to said don't worry though "we've got a thousand(!!!) ASICS we can't send out because of incorrect or incomplete infomation".
Yet another example of inappropriate, unneccesary, one size fits all (it doesn't), poorly thought through legislation.

lamepilot

28th May 2006, 11:45

Perhaps the new VISA AD..........

$135 and 7 months to get ASIC

$50 for phone calls

E mail inquiry throught CASA web site ........ a joke no reply :ugh:

Took to airport to get coded for access and it was not accepted!

3 days of phone calls to airport operator as well as multiple visits to airport

$35 in parking

Operator agreed finally CASA asic acceptable ....... but .....

ASIC has no chip and can not be coded

$20 for door acess card

TOTAL IN EXCESS OF $260

Getting f:mad:d around by CASA ............. PRICELESS!

Ozgrade3

28th May 2006, 15:22

Sent my application in just after Easter thinking it might miss the rush, on the 12th May I got a call from a lovely young lass from the CLARC, she said I hadnt provided some documents or what ever. On the 24th she called me again saying she hadnt recieved the said documents (I had forgotten to post them).

An interesting comment she made to me was that there is a closing date of May 31, she didnt really know what that meant, perhaps the CLARC will be closing and ASIC applications will be processed by ordinary CASA clerks.

deckchair

29th May 2006, 06:52

Spent the day at a major regional terminal recently before i received my ASIC. Phoned the Airport Manager beforehand explaining i was still waiting for it, he was great, just said don't worry about it as not many pilots have them that fly in anyway.

Watched the ground crews for two airlines all day and saw no ASIC on anyone.

I don't have any history of activist tendancies but point me to a protest march on this one and i'll be there with banners waving.

...and i love the instruction in the letter you get with the card. Upon expiry we have to send the card back to them. No way sunshine, you come and pick it up.

low_flyer

29th May 2006, 08:02

and i love the instruction in the letter you get with the card.

You mean there are rules associated with using this thing?

I guess CASA forgot to fulfil it responsibility :eek:

So, if I had access to CASA's ASIC Program would I find an reference to CASA providing successful applicants with details of the correct use of an ASIC?

Before I get on the anti-CASA bandwagon, do ASIC's from other issuing bodies usually come with a set of instructions?

RENURPP

29th May 2006, 09:39

NO is that 10 characters yet?

kookabat

29th May 2006, 14:22

Hooooold on... WHAT instruction letter???

Never got one of those.... just the little bit of shiny plastic, a holder and a dodgy lanyard.:ugh:

aero979

1st Jun 2006, 01:29

can this be tied into the whole asic thing? are we meant to receive PHOTO licences now? I want one!

Eight Ball

1st Jun 2006, 02:30

Really, if I get fined one of these days for forgetting my ASIC, I'll go to Current Affairs. Stuff 'em. This security is a joke.

ContactMeNow

1st Jun 2006, 05:07

Don't worry guys, how is this for a joke...

Was at a regional/RPT airport not too long ago and saw 2 CASA inspectors walking around with their CASA ID tags on, but NO ASIC's.....

Surely their CASA ID cannot count as an ASIC card?

CMN :ok:

currawong

1st Jun 2006, 09:39

Tax time is fast approaching.

Have yet to see a receipt.:mad:

ThoughtCrime

1st Jun 2006, 14:09

Tax time is fast approaching.

Have yet to see a receipt.

Has anyone received a receipt? :bored:

TC

aero979

1st Jun 2006, 23:15

i received a receipt for my licence fee - 130 bucks
have to pick up asic today or monday - but they can definately produce one

has anyone received a photo licence recently?

Arm out the window

2nd Jun 2006, 03:40

Yep, got a receipt for mine - they were probably scared that I'd make another 50 phone calls and emails and letters of complaint if they didn't send it.

rcoight

2nd Jun 2006, 05:21

Finally got mine today.

Not bad - only applied last October!

The strange thing is, my credit card doesn't appear to have been debited?!

I guess it's best to not ask any questions...

18-Wheeler

2nd Jun 2006, 15:37

Hey I just got back into Aus today, got home, and there's my ASIC sitting here waiting for me!!!

One slight problem with that -
I DIDN'T WANT ONE!
I didn't fill out the paperwork for one, didn't approve one, didn't ask for one. I don't need or want one. I DID, however, fill out the paperwork for the new photolicence thingy.
So how the hell did I get an ASIC ????

rmcdonal

2nd Jun 2006, 21:51

Was at a regional/RPT airport not too long ago and saw 2 CASA inspectors walking around with their CASA ID tags on, but NO ASIC's.....
Surely their CASA ID cannot count as an ASIC card?
Often it lives on the other side of the card holder, so they can just turn it around instead of having to wear two lanyards.
And there are rules regarding the Lanyard to. The little clip on them is to stop it from getting caught on something and either
a) Pulling your head into some moving engine part :eek:
b) Snagging your controls and thence causing an accident

Instead it just breaks off and falls to the ground....only to be picked up by the airport inspector who then charges you for not wearing it, and sends it of to CLARC (or whoever) for the $20 reward!

captaindejavu

2nd Jun 2006, 23:32

rmcdonal,

Firstly, I agree with everything you said. But you bring up a very good point regarding double-sided ID clips:

If their ASIC was on the reverse side, and therefore not properly displayed (i.e. clearly visible), then.... they should cop a $550 fine like the rest of us have been threatened with!!!!!! Call the nearest copper or APS officer and report them. That's their job. It's only fair, isn't it ?? One rule for everyone.

Aviation Transport Security Regulations....

3.03 Requirement to display ASICs in secure areas

(1) Subject to subregulations (4), (5) and (7), regulations 3.05, 3.06, 3.07, 3.08 and 3.09 and subregulations 3.18 (2) and 3.26
(2)
(a) a person in the airside security zone of a security controlled airport must properly display a valid red ASIC; and
(b) a person in a secure area (other than the airside security zone) of such an airport must properly display either a valid red ASIC or a valid grey ASIC.

Penalty: 5 penalty units.

1.04 What properly displaying means:

(1) For these Regulations, somebody is properly displaying an ASIC or VIC only if it is attached to his or her outer clothing:
(a) above waist height; and
(b) at the front or side of his or her body; and
(c) with the whole front of the ASIC or VIC clearly visible.

(2) He or she is not properly displaying the ASIC or VIC if anything adhering to it obscures a photograph or anything else on it.

rmcdonal

3rd Jun 2006, 07:34

I can just see it now. The wind well flip the card over and then im up for a Fine :ugh: .

Pinky the pilot

3rd Jun 2006, 08:04

Did anyone recieve a photo licence recently?
Aero979 Funny you you should say that!! Because further to 18 Wheeler's post re his application for a photo licence but recieving an ASIC;
I applied for both, and filled out both the forms supplied upon request. Eventually recieved a 'phone call from a very polite and helpful (but extremely overworked and harassed) Lady from the section issuing these things requesting that I fill out a different form which enables the security check on me as apparently I had filled out the incorrect form for the ASIC. It seems that the ASIC form I was supplied with had the security request page for the photo licence inserted instead of the ASIC one.
I was faxed the appropriate pages (which were almost identical to the pages I had originally completed:mad: ) and shortly thereafter recieved my ASIC.:ok: (Mrs Pinky asked why was'nt there a row of numbers below the photo:E )
So just when will the photo licence arrive???:confused:
What's the bet it never does!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Led Zep

3rd Jun 2006, 08:30

So just when will the photo licence arrive???:confused:
What's the bet it never does!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I applied for one (photo license) back before the December cutoff date. The lady at CASA said I didn't need to apply for one since I already had an ASIC (thank Christ!) but I was most welcome to apply. Did so, didn't cost me anything, but it seems to have got lost in the mail. In the meantime I've had two new licenses issued to me - I bet mine never arrives either.

18-Wheeler

5th Jun 2006, 06:58

Got a hold of them on the phone this morning, explained that I didn't want an ASIC and I'd asked for an AVID. The girl on the other end was as helpful as she could be, but said that I'd get called back from her boss some time in the next two working days to sort it out. Got a call a couple of hours ago, and the (new) woman on the phone said she'd send me an AVID no probs at all, and I could keep the ASIC.
Not tooooo painful ....

currawong

5th Jun 2006, 10:41

The good news is the madness has spread to the AVMED section.

Getting a medical renewal is now a comparable debacle.

Same old stories. Could not get it back in time even with a two month extension.

The best part?

"Yes we can fax you out a copy, but that will cost you $35"

:yuk: :yuk: :yuk:

aero979

7th Jun 2006, 00:20

i received my new asic today - but expires Jan 07!!!
it was a replacement card and I was meant to have new checks done, but they have gone off my old checks... and apparently have still charged me $145!!!!:ugh: :mad:

on the phone as we speak!!!

YYWG

7th Jun 2006, 00:45

You can troll back through pprune history, but a number of organisations were offering ASIC, AUF, AOPA etc, with those you got a full 2 years. What did your cost on a pro-rated basis :D

VH-XXX

7th Jun 2006, 01:02

The word on the street (a phone call to CASA actually) has yielded the fact that all application that are processed by May 31st (a week or more ago) are being returned to applicants and they will be required to re-apply. It's how they are going about "cleaning" out the system so that they can start again "fresh." I asked what happens to people who applied in say February to which the reply was "sorry, that's bad luckk, you will have to re-apply." !!!